User Panel
LOL you and your drama at this job. It's not them at this point lolol.
|
|
|
Clock in early enough for a decent turnover from night crew, work about 12hrs or so. Walk out as soon as I finish turning over with night crew.
Three days a week and I choose which three. No way I could go back to 8-5/M-F job. |
|
Wanted: Bikini cover for old school Trijicon 1x24 Reflex sight. IM please.
|
Originally Posted By Marie: WFH is not an option. Period. Even the other regular, good employees don’t have it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: If they keep running in to this same issue you probably should look at a work the am in the office and wfh a couple hours. That way the files go and come back every day. No days that are fully work from home. Think outside the box of have no one. WFH is not an option. Period. Even the other regular, good employees don’t have it. I don't know anything about your industry, but your company's inability to fill the role would seem that you're probably competing with employers that offer more flexible work arrangements. The future is now, old man! |
|
|
Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: Is this the entire industry that requires work be done from an office or is it unique to your company? Why does work need to be done from the office? View Quote Pretty much in the office. I know a few people who WFH for other companies but they made special arrangements or are long term employees who were given it as a perk to keep them. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Marie thread.
In on another thread that should be a GD classic! If it's not those dang millennials who don't want to work, now it's those dang breeders who don't want to work. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Creatyre: I don't know anything about your industry, but your company's inability to fill the role would seem that you're probably competing with employers that offer more flexible work arrangements. The future is now, old man! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: If they keep running in to this same issue you probably should look at a work the am in the office and wfh a couple hours. That way the files go and come back every day. No days that are fully work from home. Think outside the box of have no one. WFH is not an option. Period. Even the other regular, good employees don’t have it. I don't know anything about your industry, but your company's inability to fill the role would seem that you're probably competing with employers that offer more flexible work arrangements. The future is now, old man! I’m very skeptical that the work has to be done from an office. Unless that’s industry standard the OP’s employer will continue to compete with employers that offer WFH and likely lose out as evidenced by these repeated threads about the issue. It’s management’s fault for failing to adapt to a changing market place. Tale as old as time. |
|
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." --Col. Jeff Cooper
|
Originally Posted By Creatyre: I don't know anything about your industry, but your company's inability to fill the role would seem that you're probably competing with employers that offer more flexible work arrangements. The future is now, old man! View Quote The ones I see locally from a quick search and from what our recruiter has open are all in office. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
I'll admit I'm getting old, but I'm astounded by her line of thinking.
NO WHERE I've worked on a professional basis would this have been considered acceptable. I'd never expect to be allowed to leave two hours early on the regular. |
|
"All planes close up tight . . .we'll have to ditch unless landfall . . .when the first plane drops below 10 gallons, we all go down together."
|
Originally Posted By 80085: Marie thread. In on another thread that should be a GD classic! If it's not those dang millennials who don't want to work, now it's those dang breeders who don't want to work. View Quote The breeder thing is nothing new. I’ve been getting shit on them in the office since the early 90s. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Make it a part time position, hire two people, and let them fight over hours.
|
|
Preferred pronoun: MARINE
|
Originally Posted By H1Mech: You sound like a joy to work alongside and be around. Not even taking that woman’s side, but don't you make weekly threads bitching about co-workers? View Quote Other people bitch about coworkers regularly. Fuck, that’s not even getting into the idiots I’m dealing with due to Baltimore bridge collapse and the Red Sea diversions. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Ah yes, salary pay leave early loss of pay stay late no extra pay lol
If there was not a clear agreement for leaving early discussed, good firing. The option to make her part time was extremly fair. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Marie: Office is open 7:30-5:30/6ish. They will literally kick you out if you're still there when office manager wants to go home. No one has keys except the two owners and office manager. Flexing your hours is not possible. If I want to keep working on something, I take my files home. I can WFH on evenings/weekends because of stupid hot air freight shipments. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By nophun: There are a lot of companies that can allow shift shifting for needs like hers but that would mean she had to get up a couple hours earlier. I'm guessing she neither asked or revealed. I don't know of a school system that doesn't have after school care that wouldn't work for what you described; ours even runs busses for the after school kids. Good firing, two days of frustration is a small price vs it dragging on longer. People like that will always burden their coworkers. Office is open 7:30-5:30/6ish. They will literally kick you out if you're still there when office manager wants to go home. No one has keys except the two owners and office manager. Flexing your hours is not possible. If I want to keep working on something, I take my files home. I can WFH on evenings/weekends because of stupid hot air freight shipments. |
|
|
Good firing I guess. Who’s doing the work now that she’s gone? I’m so glad that I don’t work in an office, it’s like prison without the rape.
|
|
|
Not that it really matters, but curious what industry this is?
|
|
|
Originally Posted By 80085: Ah, you can work from home. But you don't want anyone else to work from home. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExb3V3OXVqY3A0b3c2a2QzeWt5cGpsZ3UxZDAxMmlwNjV3ZXllbjR0YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/QjIz1AqkGTszK/giphy.gif View Quote No regular WFH is owners’ policy. I can do it because I have shit to do on weekends. WFH every day, nope. If you can’t see the fucking difference, you need to have your sight checked. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Thank God I got out of management almost 10 years ago, before this bullshit took hold.
I managed a group department of office workers with 35 women and 3 men. I also managed a field services group with close to 100 techs (only 2 women). The women in the office accounted for 90+% of all my HR/scheduling related headaches, despite being only 25% of my employees. It was a pain in the ass back then...when everyone EXPECTED to show up at office EVERY day and there was no pronoun bullshit. I talk with friends that are still doing the corporate grind and every one of them 1] are afraid to say anything to anyone, 2] feel like overall productivity has dropped by 25% - 50%. |
|
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
NRA Life Memeber - TSRA |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Originally Posted By Marie: No regular WFH is owners' policy. I can do it because I have shit to do on weekends. WFH every day, nope. If you can't see the fucking difference, you need to have your sight checked. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By 80085: Ah, you can work from home. But you don't want anyone else to work from home. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExb3V3OXVqY3A0b3c2a2QzeWt5cGpsZ3UxZDAxMmlwNjV3ZXllbjR0YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/QjIz1AqkGTszK/giphy.gif No regular WFH is owners' policy. I can do it because I have shit to do on weekends. WFH every day, nope. If you can't see the fucking difference, you need to have your sight checked. |
|
|
I have a hard time giving a fuck about the threads filled with whiners about the economy and inflation and the 'Murican Dream' when I read this garbage.
Do your fucking job. |
|
Reserved for something witty.
|
Originally Posted By NAK: Thank God I got out of management almost 10 years ago, before this bullshit took hold. I managed a group department of office workers with 35 women and 3 men. I also managed a field services group with close to 100 techs (only 2 women). The women in the office accounted for 90+% of all my HR/scheduling related headaches, despite being only 25% of my employees. It was a pain in the ass back then...when everyone EXPECTED to show up at office EVERY day and there was no pronoun bullshit. I talk with friends that are still doing the corporate grind and every one of them 1] are afraid to say anything to anyone, 2] feel like overall productivity has dropped by 25% - 50%. View Quote There’s no pronoun bullshit here at least. One of the owners is Indian and they don’t have any patience for that shit. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Originally Posted By 80085: Ah, you can work from home. But you don't want anyone else to work from home. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExb3V3OXVqY3A0b3c2a2QzeWt5cGpsZ3UxZDAxMmlwNjV3ZXllbjR0YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/QjIz1AqkGTszK/giphy.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 80085: Originally Posted By Marie: Office is open 7:30-5:30/6ish. They will literally kick you out if you’re still there when office manager wants to go home. No one has keys except the two owners and office manager. Flexing your hours is not possible. If I want to keep working on something, I take my files home. I can WFH on evenings/weekends because of stupid hot air freight shipments. Ah, you can work from home. Originally Posted By Marie: We finally found someone who said she understood working from home was not an option. We even had her sign something that she agreed WFH was not an option. But you don't want anyone else to work from home. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExb3V3OXVqY3A0b3c2a2QzeWt5cGpsZ3UxZDAxMmlwNjV3ZXllbjR0YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/QjIz1AqkGTszK/giphy.gif Attached File |
|
|
Like it or not WFH is the standard now. Good luck to you.
|
|
|
Adapt or perish.
Sounds like the decision has already been made. |
|
Be brave and savor light until it's time for you and me.
|
|
Originally Posted By 73RR: That wasn't the issue, she gets paid for 8 hours and even of she finishes in 6 she still is required to fulfil her 8 hours. View Quote I agreed with everything up until this point. What if they don't get it done in 8? Work late for the same salary right? Yea, I wouldn't punish people for efficiency. I would want to leverage that. I don't understand that to be the case here but I completely disagree with your reasoning in this post. I want to amplify efficiency and talent. Your approach will run off the people who will make your team better. If you want to treat someone like hourly pay them hourly. If you want salary you pay them salary. You don't try to leverage both against your team. I think OP was completely right here but I think you should reconsider your position in this if you have a team and want to have a shot at talent retention. |
|
|
Smokers.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By JTX23: I agreed with everything up until this point. What if they don't get it done in 8? Work late for the same salary right? Yea, I wouldn't punish people for efficiency. I would want to leverage that. I don't understand that to be the case here but I completely disagree with your reasoning in this post. I want to amplify efficiency and talent. Your approach will run off the people who will make your team better. If you want to treat someone like hourly pay them hourly. If you want salary you pay them salary. You don't try to leverage both against your team. I think OP was completely right here but I think you should reconsider your position in this if you have a team and want to have a shot at talent retention. View Quote Nope. She was hired to take some of the load off me and other coworker in my department. She was hired for full time, not part time. You do NOT give me work you were supposed to get done and expect ME to do it, while you go off to get your kids. I’d have absolutely no problem with her part time. Her work I saw was excellent. She chose to reproduce. Her kids are not my problem. If she can’t fulfill the job as it was presented to her, which was 8-5, in the office, then buh bye. She didn’t hold up her end of the agreement. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
We don't come alone; we are fire, we are stone.
|
Change her work hours from 6-3.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By Marie: We finally found someone who said she understood working from home was not an option. We even had her sign something that she agreed WFH was not an option. Had the required experience and knew her stuff. Her references had nothing but praise. This job is an entry writer for customs clearances. Hard 8-5 hours in the office. She lasted two days. First day, all she needed was training on our software and getting up to speed on particular customers. She did really well. At 3 pm, she hands me her files and said she had to get her kids from school. Unusual on first day, but maybe there was an emergency. I asked her the next morning if everything was OK, and she said yes. Same thing day two at 3pm. Gives me files and says she has to get her kids from school. I told her we would have to talk in the morning. That meeting the third morning was an eye opener. There were no emergencies requiring her to get kids from school. It was regular pickup. She expected to work 6 hours and get paid for 8, complete with benefits. I told her we were more than happy to keep her on part-time, but that meant no benefits. She refused, saying she needed the money and the benefits. She was let go right then. Accounting cut her a check for the two days work and buh bye! Nearly every office job I have ever had after college, I have gotten work dumped on me by coworkers with kids. They were always given permission to leave early, come in late, take off in the middle of the day - anything that involved the kids, or so they said, and NEVER had to make the time off. While if I took off a few hours for a doctor appointment, I had to work late/through my lunch if I didn’t want to lose vacation time. First time I’ve ever had control over the parent dumping work on me and you’re damned right I wasn’t going to let her get away with it. You’re paid for 8 hours of work and if you can’t do it, buh bye. EDIT: she handed me files she couldn’t finish because she was leaving early. The job is salaried. View Quote Women fought for a place in the workplace and then are the first to shit on each other for trying to do both. Your mindset is the very reason this woman probably needed to work. She’d probably be much happier if our economy and society was returned to a system where a single income could support a family and a woman’s place was at home with her children and running her household. Instead strong independent women ruined American society and the family unit so they can complain about having to pick up the slack of other women in the workplace. While I hate lazy employees, I won’t shit on a mother for caring for her children. |
|
George Mason “The Cavalier’s” Great-Grandson
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
People don't think FLSA status be like it is, but it do.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By The_Like_Button: Women fought for a place in the workplace and then are the first to shit on each other for trying to do both. Your mindset is the very reason this woman probably needed to work. She’d probably be much happier if our economy and society was returned to a system where a single income could support a family and a woman’s place was at home with her children and running her household. Instead strong independent women ruined American society and the family unit so they can complain about having to pick up the slack of other women in the workplace. While I hate lazy employees, I won’t shit on a mother for caring for her children. View Quote Nailed it. |
|
|
Schoolhouse Rock was a lie
|
Originally Posted By The_Like_Button: Women fought for a place in the workplace and then are the first to shit on each other for trying to do both. Your mindset is the very reason this woman probably needed to work. She’d probably be much happier if our economy and society was returned to a system where a single income could support a family and a woman’s place was at home with her children and running her household. Instead strong independent women ruined American society and the family unit so they can complain about having to pick up the slack of other women in the workplace. While I hate lazy employees, I won’t shit on a mother for caring for her children. View Quote I’m shitting on her for lying and expecting to get away with part time work and still getting paid for full time and having benefits. Doesn’t work that way. She didn’t say a thing about needing to get the kids and didn’t ask if there was a way to deal with it. I’ve always gotten the short end of the stick with parents dumping work on me and employees letting them get away with it. I’m at the point t where I don’t have to tolerate that and I won’t. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Originally Posted By Marie: Office isn’t open those hours. 7:30-530/6ish only. Small company. Office manager opens and closes. Hell, I don’t even have a key. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By Smash47: Change her work hours from 6-3. Office isn’t open those hours. 7:30-530/6ish only. Small company. Office manager opens and closes. Hell, I don’t even have a key. Why not? You are clearly a trusted employee that can at times work from home. From what I can suss out the owner is set in his ways and wants to run things old school. That comes with benefits and with problems. Now you’re back to square one with the increased work load and no new employees in sight. How long as it taken to fill this position? 6 months? |
|
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." --Col. Jeff Cooper
|
Originally Posted By Marie: Nope. She was hired to take some of the load off me and other coworker in my department. She was hired for full time, not part time. You do NOT give me work you were supposed to get done and expect ME to do it, while you go off to get your kids. I’d have absolutely no problem with her part time. Her work I saw was excellent. She chose to reproduce. Her kids are not my problem. If she can’t fulfill the job as it was presented to her, which was 8-5, in the office, then buh bye. She didn’t hold up her end of the agreement. View Quote You did her a favor by ending the relationship between you and her. JFC I love this place. GD is pure entertainment. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Marie: I’m shitting on her for lying and expecting to get away with part time work and still getting paid for full time and having benefits. Doesn’t work that way. She didn’t say a thing about needing to get the kids and didn’t ask if there was a way to deal with it. I’ve always gotten the short end of the stick with parents dumping work on me and employees letting them get away with it. I’m at the point t where I don’t have to tolerate that and I won’t. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By The_Like_Button: Women fought for a place in the workplace and then are the first to shit on each other for trying to do both. Your mindset is the very reason this woman probably needed to work. She’d probably be much happier if our economy and society was returned to a system where a single income could support a family and a woman’s place was at home with her children and running her household. Instead strong independent women ruined American society and the family unit so they can complain about having to pick up the slack of other women in the workplace. While I hate lazy employees, I won’t shit on a mother for caring for her children. I’m shitting on her for lying and expecting to get away with part time work and still getting paid for full time and having benefits. Doesn’t work that way. She didn’t say a thing about needing to get the kids and didn’t ask if there was a way to deal with it. I’ve always gotten the short end of the stick with parents dumping work on me and employees letting them get away with it. I’m at the point t where I don’t have to tolerate that and I won’t. Meh, employers alter the initial employment deal all the time with zero compensation. Can hardly blame people for playing by the same rules companies get away with. |
|
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." --Col. Jeff Cooper
|
Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: Why not? You are clearly a trusted employee that can at times work from home. From what I can suss out the owner is set in his ways and wants to run things old school. That comes with benefits and with problems. Now you’re back to square one with the increased work load and no new employees in sight. How long as it taken to fill this position? 6 months? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By Smash47: Change her work hours from 6-3. Office isn’t open those hours. 7:30-530/6ish only. Small company. Office manager opens and closes. Hell, I don’t even have a key. Why not? You are clearly a trusted employee that can at times work from home. From what I can suss out the owner is set in his ways and wants to run things old school. That comes with benefits and with problems. Now you’re back to square one with the increased work load and no new employees in sight. How long as it taken to fill this position? 6 months? It’s the way things are. I just deal with it. They like the office manager having control to open and close. Some things you just don’t fight. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Originally Posted By Action45: Good firing I guess. Who’s doing the work now that she’s gone? I’m so glad that I don’t work in an office, it’s like prison without the rape. View Quote Boom !!!! My GM fires people left and right, it's no problem for him because he just splits that work load amongst the other employees. I would much rather have help for 4 hours than no help at all. |
|
|
Was she white?
|
|
Be brave and savor light until it's time for you and me.
|
Originally Posted By Marie: Nope. She was hired to take some of the load off me and other coworker in my department. She was hired for full time, not part time. You do NOT give me work you were supposed to get done and expect ME to do it, while you go off to get your kids. I'd have absolutely no problem with her part time. Her work I saw was excellent. She chose to reproduce. Her kids are not my problem. If she can't fulfill the job as it was presented to her, which was 8-5, in the office, then buh bye. She didn't hold up her end of the agreement. View Quote So are you again stuck doing the "excellent" work she got done in the 6 hours she was there? Would that not be better than the 2 she left you with? I'm wondering if you just damned your face to spite your nose because of some "its not fair" hogwash. your employers are ham stringing you, you will not get full accesses to the best options because of strict policies regarding WFH. Without it, you could potentially even poach a trained employee from a competitor. good firing tactically, but maybe not strategically. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Dano556x45mm: Boom !!!! My GM fires people left and right, it's no problem for him because he just splits that work load amongst the other employees. I would much rather have help for 4 hours than no help at all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Dano556x45mm: Originally Posted By Action45: Good firing I guess. Who’s doing the work now that she’s gone? I’m so glad that I don’t work in an office, it’s like prison without the rape. Boom !!!! My GM fires people left and right, it's no problem for him because he just splits that work load amongst the other employees. I would much rather have help for 4 hours than no help at all. Me and coworker are back to doing it. She was offered part time and refused it after she left early her first two days. Said she needed the full time money and benefits. Yet, she expected to work part time hours. Nope. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
As a person without kids I get exactly where you’re coming from
Good firing! Wish my work would take that stance |
|
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
What is this idea that "got my work done in 6 hours, I should be free to go"? The expectation is to work 8 hours/day -> 40 hours week, and there is always plenty more to do.
I agree that sitting around for two hours killing time is stupid, but surely there are other projects/tasks the can be used to fill that time productively. |
|
|
Originally Posted By H1Mech: You sound like a joy to work alongside and be around. Not even taking that woman's side, but don't you make weekly threads bitching about co-workers? View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By Papposilenus: So are you again stuck doing the "excellent" work she got done in the 6 hours she was there? Would that not be better than the 2 she left you with? I'm wondering if you just damned your face to spite your nose because of some "its not fair" hogwash. your employers are ham stringing you, you will not get full accesses to the best options because of strict policies regarding WFH. Without it, you could potentially even poach a trained employee from a competitor. good firing tactically, but maybe not strategically. View Quote Yep I’m back to doing it - along with other person in dept. She was offered part time after the two days leaving early. She didn’t want it. Said she needs full time pay and benefits. Why should we keep her if she can’t work the full day yet expects to leave early every day, still getting paid for full day. Nooe. |
|
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.