I think you missed the part that she didn’t complete her assigned workload for the day. She handed over incomplete work.

If you do your job, don’t give me bullshit, and don’t act like an idiot, I will treat you like an adult and leave you alone. If you are incapable of that, yes, I won’t put up with it. I don’t micromanage. I hate it myself and I’ve got enough of my own shit to do.

LMAO at the micromanagers in the comments here. I'm a Director of Sales for a large tech company, 3 managers under me with 6-12 sellers on each team plus I have a few sellers reporting directly to me. I sat in an IC role for ~15 years and always appreciated a manager who left me the F alone (although I was always performing well).

Net of this rant -  I have people on my team that make as low as $110K and people on my team who make >$5M a year. If people are hitting their numbers in, hitting their KPI then I don't care where they are at what time of the day.

Sales is quite different from a job where you’re butts in seats for 8 hours in the office.

Without risking a violation for the conduct code, I’d guess it is safe to assume that you’re not married and don’t have children. In that respect you really can’t understand what it’s like to have responsibilities that are greater than your career or pastimes. As a director of operations I’ve hired and fired a lot of people in my time, but I’ve never made it a habit to interfere with mothers being mothers so long as they got their work done. Our accounting girl has pumped breast milk for all 4 of her kids on the clock. Numerous times over the years she’s had to run home to drop milk off of the supply was running low for the day. By showing her some grace and respect she’s always given us 110%.

it's not your money

Why do you care if she makes full time pay and benefits?  Hell, she could make more than you, thats irrelevant.

you got 6 "excellent" hours from an employee on their second day and you got upset because of a "it's not fair" mindset.

By day 3, do you think she could have gotten what amounts to the expected 8 hour workday?  Maybe day 4?

now you're holding the bag, the employer is paying two people again, and we'll get another thread in a month about the next employee that didn't work out.

The question is "Does she get overtime if she works past 5?"

If she doesn't get overtime, then she's likely an exempt employee in the eyes of the FLSA and thus has no obligation to work the fixed schedule.

If you insist on defining working hours, then you've made the position non-exempt, salary or not.

Someone's HR department probably needs to do some reading.

Given the birth rate of white people in this country, I have a particularly hard time sympathizing with you here. She had kids, that presents challenges, especially finding and affording childcare. If you don’t help people like her with certain accommodations, the birth rate drops- eventually to levels like we’re seeing today. This country will be completely gone in another generation because of this issue.

The shitbags, illegals, welfare abusers, etc. get covered by the taxpayers, meanwhile you’re shitting on someone trying to make their way? Yeah, you’re the actual problem here. I guess if you haven’t procreated yourself, it won’t affect your blood.

I got mine, right?

This is what was bugging me too. In my line of work you're usually not 100% until 3-6 months in unless it's just really menial work. Doing "good work" within the first couple days then shitcanning them because you're butthurt they had some kids nor did any sort of corrective action to reset expectations and/or give them some leeway to do some minor WFH (that marie herself says she does occasionally) is pants on fucking head retarded and just now spiting yourself and the organization.

No kids, not married. Like being on my own quite well.

I don’t really care what her family responsibilities are. She signed documentation confirming job as 8-5, in the office, no WFH. If she couldn’t keep up her end of the bargain, then she shouldn’t have taken the job. Period. End of story. She didn’t ask for any accommodations. Just walked out two hours early each day after giving me her undone work.

I have no patience for people who lie and think they can just slip stuff in and get away from it.

That’s the real reason women earn 70% of what men do as a gender, because they work 70% as much, constantly missing work, entire days, arriving late, leaving early, missing entire weeks, months, 6 months, etc due to female problems, female dr apps, general dr appointments, they are sick, they are pregnant, having morning sickness, on bed rest, delivering a baby, need months to bond, need extra long breaks  to pump milk, their kids sick, they are sick, they can’t  find sitters, need to pick up sick kids, attend pta meetings, x 1000., demanding specific times off / off every weekend, never work holidays, or nights, demand they get their holiday / vacation day approved over others with more seniority because “ Iv got kids ! “,

Add that to generally working easier jobs that often pay less and BOOM, as a whole they earn 70% of what men do.

It really doesn't matter, and all of you shitting on OP are wrong.  The terms of the job were clearly spelled out in the hiring process.  Employee took the job knowing she could not fulfill the requirements.  Why is this so hard for some to "get"?

She didn’t ASK for any accommodations. At all. That’s my whole issue with her.

This.

She doesn’t have enough pigmentation to make a bullshit lawsuit fly.

That only works for (ahem) “certain groups.”

Pics?

I remember our dept made an offer and the counter offer was “I Have Children”
Immediate 20k raise.
I was WTF?

I feel like I'm watching an episode of the Rockford Files.  Is your office a trailer?

It's irrelevant. No children, "womenbosses" always love to shit on the mothers when they're the exact cause of this situation.

The office manager in this situation sounds like a boomer "I lock up and you show up and go home when I say type". OP just fired someone who on day 2 was producing excellent work albeit with some scheduling issues. And now we're going to hear about how hard it is to find help for this job on a biweekly basis until the next poor soul gets through the interview process.

OP's ideal candidate is one who wants to worship work for 8 hours a day because "that's just the way it is" and any other personal responsibilities are far less important than work.

Better be paying 500k+/yr for that level of BS.

Just reading through a little bit of this thread, there seems to be a hostility toward working at home. I personally don’t get that unless there’s something about the nature of the job that was not included in any of the posts. To simply say you’re not going to allow work from home because you don’t allow it to close the door to a lot of otherwise talented employees. Good help is hard to find right now and I think employers need to be open to the idea of allowing work from home in situations where it’s warranted and the job is done.

This kind of reminds me of when I was working in a factory fresh out of high school. We had to do a lot of assembly of small pieces and our foreman would not allow anyone to sit down. There was really no reason for it other than he just had this irrational belief that, people didn’t work as hard if they were sitting down. I always felt that people got tired after a few hours from standing and would’ve been more efficient if they were allowed to sit down, but there was no reasoning with him.

Anyway, I don’t have all, but it just seems to me that if you have talented people who can do the job from home and they’re willing to work for what you’re willing to pay, work from home is a viable option. But if you don’t offer it, someone else will.

Haha. Nope.

Too many assholes use there kids as an exuse to get out of work when people without have to accept that they get treated differently. It’s bullshit. They shouldn’t get any extra perks over people without kids

illogical

unless your work requires someone in a desk to answer a phone from a customer and achieve results right then or your in a customer facing position with listed hours

Was the accommodation offered of - "this is excellent work, and it's day two.  But I need you to complete the tasks expected in the 8 hours your paid for.  If you can do it in 6, awesome. If you can do it in 4, even better. But you NEED to complete these tasks."

I get the impression you work over 40 on salary and you're blaming new people for think "fuck that" instead of your boss for taking advantage

Lots to unpack in this thread.

She knew the hours and knew there was no WFH.

I have a feeling we're going to see large financial incentives to breed in our lifetimes because of all the folks going their own way.

The world runs on procreation. No babies, no world.

Family creation is the single largest driver of individual consumption.

If it weren't for all the breeders you guys hate, there wouldn't be any shit for Marie to ship in from around the world.

I agree with OP.

If it is an option in your state, I would have changed her to hourly wage but kept the benefits.   Not all states permit that.

And if she refused, then pink slip her.

oh yeah

perfectly good firing, but OP is the one who will suffer for it, not the lady who got fired.

Yeah, a pattern is developing here.

Welcome to post-covid workplace dynamics.  Adapt or continue making threads about how everyone else is the problem.

Decaf is a thing.

I don't have an opinion on the way you feel about the lady. BUT, I'm guessing she thought it was a shit place to work on her first day and by day 2 she didn't care if she got fired, quit or let go. I could be wrong. I think the next person you should hire should be a clone of you. No kids and loves woking for people who do it the "old" way. I mean, good luck finding that person.

"Butts in seats!"  It's not 2005.

The woman shouldn’t have just assumed she can dip whenever for personal reasons. She should’ve also cleared that out beforehand. And pulling that her first two days was very naive and dumb. But I bet part of the reason she didn’t disclose it was she knew she wouldn’t get the job if she was honest and forthcoming that she was responsible for her children. Most employers treat people like shit and expect them to put their job above everything else.

Regardless, you come across as an asshole who is vindictive and petty. I’ve learned that’s rather normal behavior from women. You sound extremely jealous and bitter towards the other woman for having kids because you went out of your way to mention you don’t have kids.

It’s also ironic that the same GD populace that bitches and moans about people not working think people should be slaves to an employer and nothing else in their life matters or is important. Maybe she was a lazy sack of shit and using the single mom card to skate. Or maybe she was a single mom trying to provide for herself and children. Not every single mom is a lazy whore. Some women were abused, others are widows, etc. And not everyone has a network of family/friends to provide free daycare. There are lots out there that do their very best, but it’s extremely hard to simultaneously work full time and care for kids. And it is impossible when an employer acts as yours does.

And the comments from others about being forced to stay in the office 9-5 no matter what are straight up bullshit. For what? That’s dumb. Licking your employer’s boots and working a bunch of OT is not a badge of honor. I genuinely feel a lot of the “millennial” hate comes from jealousy of old people who realize they wasted their entire lives slaving away at a job and they see younger generations rejecting that notion and choosing freedom and enjoying their life over the value of a dollar.

Forcing 100% office when the job can be completed remote is dumb in itself, but also forcing to physically stay 8 hours even if the job is complete is laughable. No competent person in any field will ever accept that. You’ve established that it is a salary position that requires an employee with a very specific skill set and doesn’t even require physically being in the office to complete. Your employer is a fucking idiot for mandating that job is a mandatory 8 hours in person every day. They will literally never find anyone that is competent and qualified who will stay there long term. And you are a straight up asshole for just firing her on the spot.

You say your employer requires in person and no work from home or leaving early. Unless they are just complete idiots I find that very hard to believe. I bet if you let them know she was qualified, competent and picking up the job fast but needed some flexibility because she was a single mom they would’ve been more than accommodating so long as the job is completed.

I bet the real reason is because you are an asshole and wanted to force her to physically sit in the office for 8 hours a day, even if she’s just sitting there twirling her thumbs. Because fuck her and her free time and responsibilities. You’re miserable, therefore she will be miserable.

You took away a job from a single mom and gave yourself more work to do. Congratulations?

Good for you OP!

Covid created the majority of this.  Thanks China!

Completely irrelevant.


That’s commendable and I’m sure your employer appreciates you. If they don’t I would strongly recommend quitting and finding a new job where you are not only properly compensated, but also treated well and appreciated.


Completely irrelevant, but not surprising.


Completely irrelevant.

If she wanted to quit, she could have just not showed up on day two. She had no shitty attitude or anything.

The amount of single mothers has exploded, IIRC USA has highest rate of unwed mothers on the fucking planet. This chick might well have a husband, but one wasn’t mentioned, modern female attitudes and bad behavior and decisions are responsible for the vast majority of single mothers, not taking precautions , having kids with losers, dumping / divorcing good men because it’s more exciting over there, divorce him and profit.

A huge reason is because women are rewarded for being single mothers, big daddy government hands them $$ in divorces, hands them houses and kids, hands them welfare, extra money for each new kid, food stamps and 1000 other benefits a similarly single dad could never get.

Until they start facing negative consequences, you won’t see a reduction in single mothers, becoming a single mother used to be a terrible thing, embarrassing, tragic, horrifying, as it guaranteed a life of poverty and hunger. As a result women made better choices to avoid becoming single mothers, demanded more from men, wanted happy stable life long marriages, etc.

Demanding everyone else work harder to cover for the missing single mom isn’t winning, it’s punishing the other workers who made better choices, hurts productivity and moral, fosters resentment, and rewards single mother behavior.  If the dad had the kids I bet he could figure shit out without missing work, because he knows work pays the bills and he knows he can’t get the benefits a single mother can by crying to government/ society, so he has to work harder to make things work. If most single moms had that attitude they wouldn’t be single moms to begin with, they would have husbands to help out .

It’s no better in any job, hell in the army it was the same shit, single moms constantly needing to leave early, come in late, leave 1/2 a day, take days off, because a kids sick, no sitter, missed the school bus, etc, etc, the ones who cried loudest got the most time off and abused it everytime.

yep

Most employees realized salaried jobs with mandatory hours are bullshit.

Lol! lol don’t hate the breeders. I Just don’t feel like they should get extra time off to go to there kids hockey game and such

Can you explain why all this work must occur in the office?

And not because boss said so.

It is quite different. We typically work more than 40 hours a week, often including nights and weekends. But it’s worth it if the schedule is flexible and you get to eat what you kill. You could’ve offered her a reduced salary and full benefits, but it sounds like you’d rather be “right” than find a viable solution that benefits you and your team.

Women with children shouldn't work, full stop. It's bad for the kids, it's an ass ache for her coworkers, and it drives down wages by increasing possible applicants. Stay home with your children.

Sounds like a shit place to work.

She’s got a partner, but I don’t know anything about his work status.

She didn’t ask for accommodations. And there is no twiddling your thumbs. There is fucking plenty of work to do. I’m posting in between getting shit done. This is a customer facing job. Customers know we’re open 8-5. With the office open 730-530/6,  is actually very little
OT. I go home at 5 most days and so do most of my coworkers.

How about doing your fucking job from 8-5?

There are plenty of jobs I know of with strict, in office schedules. Friends work them. Especially those in customer facing positions. The public expects you to be there certain hours and you work those hours. You just don’t duck out early when customers expect you on the office, leaving someone else to do your shit.

She was a scumbag. Good riddance.

I can WFH or go into the office as I please.  Sometimes I get stir crazy at home so I go into the office, and I almost always regret it.  The commute alone is a giant time suck, then add all the other negatives.  

Now that it's getting warm I'm looking forward to getting out of town, setting up my wi-fi booster and working from a lawn chair by one of the Great Lakes somewhere.

How's that no wfh policy working out on your work load?

I hear you, I have seen it play out like I described many times over. I see you had no opinion on hiring someone just like you. Find someone with your mindset and you'll be gold...

I worked at a place that had a bunch of dudes that would pull that shit. An outage would come in at the end of the day "OH, I have to do some bullshit for my kids." Every. Fucking. Time. Night or weekend outages? You couldn't even get them to answer the phone. Overtime and outages are a part of the trade, so it's not a surprise.

I eventually just changed trades so I didn't have to carry people because the lazy fucks "Had kids".

Sounds like you should be hourly employees then.

I bet you'd have an easier time finding employees with a flexible hourly schedule and benefits that are covered if you average more than 30-some hours a week.

this is easily fixed with a Hybrid schedule, and you most likely would have gotten much much more work out of her.