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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:35:46 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: Women don’t work overtime. It is a fact of life. So true. "We are absolutely 100% not allowed to work OT" The exact words said by at least 3 women I've dated. Then they get pissed when I work OT. Yeah, sorry my work is actually producing something, not just shuffling papers and snatchchatting all day. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:35:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 80085]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mattellis2: What is this idea that "got my work done in 6 hours, I should be free to go"? The expectation is to work 8 hours/day -> 40 hours week, and there is always plenty more to do. I agree that sitting around for two hours killing time is stupid, but surely there are other projects/tasks the can be used to fill that time productively. If you got time for leaning, you got time for cleaning! Get her a mop and toilet brush! |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:36:05 AM EDT
[#3]
I hope Marie stays late tonight to make up for the lack of work she's getting done by living in this thread today.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:37:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZLVredmist: this is easily fixed with a Hybrid schedule, and you most likely would have gotten much much more work out of her. No one has a schedule like that. As much I as I would like to change the WFH thing or hours, not gonna happen. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:37:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Like_Button: Without risking a violation for the conduct code, I’d guess it is safe to assume that you’re not married and don’t have children. In that respect you really can’t understand what it’s like to have responsibilities that are greater than your career or pastimes. As a director of operations I’ve hired and fired a lot of people in my time, but I’ve never made it a habit to interfere with mothers being mothers so long as they got their work done. Our accounting girl has pumped breast milk for all 4 of her kids on the clock. Numerous times over the years she’s had to run home to drop milk off of the supply was running low for the day. By showing her some grace and respect she’s always given us 110%. What does this have to do with anything? Both parties agreed the regular hours were X. On her first two days, the employee worked Y. Marie appeared open to excusing if it were due to emergent circumstances, and the employee told her no, she needs to leave early every day. Whether it's picking kids up from school or playing call of duty, she wasn't meeting her portion of the agreement. Marie even offered a compromise, because the employee's work was competent, and the employee refused. I'm the first one to be willing to show grace to an employee who due to their circumstances, particularly those involving their kids, can't work their scheduled hours - but not in the first week, after the individual essentially lied in the application process about being able to work until X and once employed, revealing she will never be able to work until X. Should Marie put her job in jeopardy for not holding her new employee accountable? Should she give special treatment to one while holding others to a different standard? There is nothing wrong ethically, morally or legally with this termination. (The only thing I see that is questionable is considering 30 hours "part time" if in regard to health benefits as ACA defines 30 hours as full time) |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:37:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Action45]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: I hope Marie stays late tonight to make up for the lack of work she's getting done by living in this thread today. Can’t, they lock the doors at 5:00-5:30 and she doesn’t even have a key 
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:37:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: She's got a partner, but I don't know anything about his work status. She didn't ask for accommodations. And there is no twiddling your thumbs. There is fucking plenty of work to do. I'm posting in between getting shit done. This is a customer facing job. Customers know we're open 8-5. With the office open 730-530/6, is actually very little OT. I go home at 5 most days and so do most of my coworkers. How about doing your fucking job from 8-5? There are plenty of jobs I know of with strict, in office schedules. Friends work them. Especially those in customer facing positions. The public expects you to be there certain hours and you work those hours. You just don't duck out early when customers expect you on the office, leaving someone else to do your shit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By H1Mech: The woman shouldn't have just assumed she can dip whenever for personal reasons. She should've also cleared that out beforehand. And pulling that her first two days was very naive and dumb. But I bet part of the reason she didn't disclose it was she knew she wouldn't get the job if she was honest and forthcoming that she was responsible for her children. Most employers treat people like shit and expect them to put their job above everything else. Regardless, you come across as an asshole who is vindictive and petty. I've learned that's rather normal behavior from women. You sound extremely jealous and bitter towards the other woman for having kids because you went out of your way to mention you don't have kids. It's also ironic that the same GD populace that bitches and moans about people not working think people should be slaves to an employer and nothing else in their life matters or is important. Maybe she was a lazy sack of shit and using the single mom card to skate. Or maybe she was a single mom trying to provide for herself and children. Not every single mom is a lazy whore. Some women were abused, others are widows, etc. And not everyone has a network of family/friends to provide free daycare. There are lots out there that do their very best, but it's extremely hard to simultaneously work full time and care for kids. And it is impossible when an employer acts as yours does. And the comments from others about being forced to stay in the office 9-5 no matter what are straight up bullshit. For what? That's dumb. Licking your employer's boots and working a bunch of OT is not a badge of honor. I genuinely feel a lot of the "millennial" hate comes from jealousy of old people who realize they wasted their entire lives slaving away at a job and they see younger generations rejecting that notion and choosing freedom and enjoying their life over the value of a dollar. Forcing 100% office when the job can be completed remote is dumb in itself, but also forcing to physically stay 8 hours even if the job is complete is laughable. No competent person in any field will ever accept that. You've established that it is a salary position that requires an employee with a very specific skill set and doesn't even require physically being in the office to complete. Your employer is a fucking idiot for mandating that job is a mandatory 8 hours in person every day. They will literally never find anyone that is competent and qualified who will stay there long term. And you are a straight up asshole for just firing her on the spot. You say your employer requires in person and no work from home or leaving early. Unless they are just complete idiots I find that very hard to believe. I bet if you let them know she was qualified, competent and picking up the job fast but needed some flexibility because she was a single mom they would've been more than accommodating so long as the job is completed. I bet the real reason is because you are an asshole and wanted to force her to physically sit in the office for 8 hours a day, even if she's just sitting there twirling her thumbs. Because fuck her and her free time and responsibilities. You're miserable, therefore she will be miserable. You took away a job from a single mom and gave yourself more work to do. Congratulations? She's got a partner, but I don't know anything about his work status. She didn't ask for accommodations. And there is no twiddling your thumbs. There is fucking plenty of work to do. I'm posting in between getting shit done. This is a customer facing job. Customers know we're open 8-5. With the office open 730-530/6, is actually very little OT. I go home at 5 most days and so do most of my coworkers. How about doing your fucking job from 8-5? There are plenty of jobs I know of with strict, in office schedules. Friends work them. Especially those in customer facing positions. The public expects you to be there certain hours and you work those hours. You just don't duck out early when customers expect you on the office, leaving someone else to do your shit. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:38:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: No kids, not married. Like being on my own quite well. I don’t really care what her family responsibilities are. She signed documentation confirming job as 8-5, in the office, no WFH. If she couldn’t keep up her end of the bargain, then she shouldn’t have taken the job. Period. End of story. She didn’t ask for any accommodations. Just walked out two hours early each day after giving me her undone work. I have no patience for people who lie and think they can just slip stuff in and get away from it. Do you though? You seem kind of mad at the world. Might be cathartic to talk to someone professional. Helped me years ago, and I’m a better director and boss for it. She should have been honest about commitments to her kids, but for all you know she needed first paycheck to get them into after school care. You obviously didn’t put any effort into assessing her situation or skills. You got mad and fired her, and now you’re back to doing everything yourself. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:38:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: She didn’t ASK for any accommodations. At all. That’s my whole issue with her. That’s the lot of it, she wasn’t upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we’re no longer living in the 50’s anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could’ve been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would’ve been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn’t upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:39:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: I can WFH or go into the office as I please. Sometimes I get stir crazy at home so I go into the office, and I almost always regret it. The commute alone is a giant time suck, then add all the other negatives. Now that it's getting warm I'm looking forward to getting out of town, setting up my wi-fi booster and working from a lawn chair by one of the Great Lakes somewhere. Make sure you work at least 8.5 hours or China wins (The extra half hour is the minimum 30 minutes early you need to be or you’re fired. Just walk around and wag your eyebrows as a courtesy “hello” to your coworkers to pass the time until 8am). |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:40:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Dipshits in in GD - "oUr cOuNtRy iS gOiNg dOwN tHe sHitTeR"
Same dipshits in GD - "iTs pEoPlE wItH kIdS tHaT aRe tHe pRoBlEm!!" 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:41:57 AM EDT
[#12]
"She lied." Well that's one side of the story.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:42:12 AM EDT
[#13]
All anti-mother sentiment aside, what sounds like the real problem here is that it's a small company run by people with outdated work expectations.
The building is hard locked with no WFH for 99% of employees, but also no leeway for flexing work for reasons (whether acknowledged prior to employ or not)... sounds like a company owner trying to return to the 70s. Best of luck with all that... I'm sure with a time machine you'll find someone who loves rigid schedules and no wfh. *shrug* |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:42:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H1Mech: You sound like a joy to work alongside and be around. Not even taking that woman’s side, but don't you make weekly threads bitching about co-workers? Now here’s a quote from somebody who doesn’t run a fucking business, that’s for sure. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:42:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Sounds like you should be hourly employees then. I bet you'd have an easier time finding employees with a flexible hourly schedule and benefits that are covered if you average more than 30-some hours a week. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By H1Mech: The woman shouldn't have just assumed she can dip whenever for personal reasons. She should've also cleared that out beforehand. And pulling that her first two days was very naive and dumb. But I bet part of the reason she didn't disclose it was she knew she wouldn't get the job if she was honest and forthcoming that she was responsible for her children. Most employers treat people like shit and expect them to put their job above everything else. Regardless, you come across as an asshole who is vindictive and petty. I've learned that's rather normal behavior from women. You sound extremely jealous and bitter towards the other woman for having kids because you went out of your way to mention you don't have kids. It's also ironic that the same GD populace that bitches and moans about people not working think people should be slaves to an employer and nothing else in their life matters or is important. Maybe she was a lazy sack of shit and using the single mom card to skate. Or maybe she was a single mom trying to provide for herself and children. Not every single mom is a lazy whore. Some women were abused, others are widows, etc. And not everyone has a network of family/friends to provide free daycare. There are lots out there that do their very best, but it's extremely hard to simultaneously work full time and care for kids. And it is impossible when an employer acts as yours does. And the comments from others about being forced to stay in the office 9-5 no matter what are straight up bullshit. For what? That's dumb. Licking your employer's boots and working a bunch of OT is not a badge of honor. I genuinely feel a lot of the "millennial" hate comes from jealousy of old people who realize they wasted their entire lives slaving away at a job and they see younger generations rejecting that notion and choosing freedom and enjoying their life over the value of a dollar. Forcing 100% office when the job can be completed remote is dumb in itself, but also forcing to physically stay 8 hours even if the job is complete is laughable. No competent person in any field will ever accept that. You've established that it is a salary position that requires an employee with a very specific skill set and doesn't even require physically being in the office to complete. Your employer is a fucking idiot for mandating that job is a mandatory 8 hours in person every day. They will literally never find anyone that is competent and qualified who will stay there long term. And you are a straight up asshole for just firing her on the spot. You say your employer requires in person and no work from home or leaving early. Unless they are just complete idiots I find that very hard to believe. I bet if you let them know she was qualified, competent and picking up the job fast but needed some flexibility because she was a single mom they would've been more than accommodating so long as the job is completed. I bet the real reason is because you are an asshole and wanted to force her to physically sit in the office for 8 hours a day, even if she's just sitting there twirling her thumbs. Because fuck her and her free time and responsibilities. You're miserable, therefore she will be miserable. You took away a job from a single mom and gave yourself more work to do. Congratulations? She's got a partner, but I don't know anything about his work status. She didn't ask for accommodations. And there is no twiddling your thumbs. There is fucking plenty of work to do. I'm posting in between getting shit done. This is a customer facing job. Customers know we're open 8-5. With the office open 730-530/6, is actually very little OT. I go home at 5 most days and so do most of my coworkers. Sounds like you should be hourly employees then. I bet you'd have an easier time finding employees with a flexible hourly schedule and benefits that are covered if you average more than 30-some hours a week. Somehow businesses have had strict work schedules, and men and women held jobs for decades, yet suddenly in the last 20-40 years women can’t hold up their end of things and number of single mothers have exploded, wonder what’s happened. Hmm. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:43:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ATLDiver: That’s the lot of it, she wasn’t upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we’re no longer living in the 50’s anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could’ve been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would’ve been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn’t upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:43:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Arsenalx39: Lol! lol don’t hate the breeders. I Just don’t feel like they should get extra time off to go to there kids hockey game and such lol lol lol Play that scenario out- white Americans who pay taxes and carry the country are no longer having kids because everything is ridiculously expensive and no accommodations are made for them to care for their kids. Meanwhile the tax leeches keep breeding with impunity while still not carrying their weight regarding economic drains on society. Does that seem sustainable? You don’t like them getting time off to get their kid to hockey, Roger. Do you like needing to speak Spanish to order a pizza? How do you like a 50% income tax rate on people earning over $80k? Someone has to pay for it, someone has to raise the positive rate taxpayers, otherwise we’re just riding out the clock before collapse. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:44:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Action45]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: yep Most employees realized salaried jobs with mandatory hours are bullshit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By bikedamon: Originally Posted By Cooper1: Originally Posted By mojeb21: What bullshit is that? So if someone finished the job early they just stand around the office and twirl thumbs until 5? If you get done you are done. It's just micromanager BS. "Butts in seats!" It's not 2005. yep Most employees realized salaried jobs with mandatory hours are bullshit. It’s a scam. One of the main reasons people who used to work in offices don’t want to go back is so they can avoid these middle management power trips. LOL at treating your workplace like a religion when you’re simply an employee |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:44:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cooper1: I feel like I'm watching an episode of the Rockford Files. Is your office a trailer? I'm imagining a cinderblock low rent office building with an after hours FFL, a one man CPA operation, the OP's customs outfit, 7 empty "suites", and a paper sales company. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:45:22 AM EDT
[#20]
I currently WFH 9-6 and I work through lunch most days. The days when I do have to go pick up the kids, that's when I use my hour for lunch.
Sure it may be 430 when I have to dash for a pickup but I am back on to finish my time. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:45:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: It really doesn't matter, and all of you shitting on OP are wrong. The terms of the job were clearly spelled out in the hiring process. Employee took the job knowing she could not fulfill the requirements. Why is this so hard for some to "get"? Worse. Some of them think Marie should have put her self at risk for the employee's sake, both her job and her personal wealth, since holding some employees accountable and allowing others to be exempt from policy can easily turn into an EEOC violation/suit that holds her personally liable along with the company. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:47:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That’s the lot of it, she wasn’t upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we’re no longer living in the 50’s anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could’ve been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would’ve been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn’t upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? I'm honestly blown away by how short sighted this post is. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: buck19delta]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: Dipshits in in GD - "oUr cOuNtRy iS gOiNg dOwN tHe sHitTeR" Same dipshits in GD - "iTs pEoPlE wItH kIdS tHaT aRe tHe pRoBlEm!!" Not kids, it’s single mothers, and the behaviors and attitudes that has caused single mother numbers to explode, as well as the entitlement where they demand extra accommodations due to being single mothers. Married women occasionally have family related issues and need a little understanding if they occasionally need to miss a few hours, single mothers are nothing but issues, don’t even attempt to make things work professionally and demand endless accommodations for their endless missing of scheduled work hours. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:50:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CanaryCamaro: Threads like this make me appreciate my WFH job with management that understands a work life balance. I’m a father to two young girls and have commitments where I have to leave early twice a week to do things with them. I make up my time and then some each week. Edited to add good firing. Sounds like she didn’t clearly communicate the need to leave early every damn day. No shit. Half of these posts are just depressing. 20 years from now, the only person that'll remember you worked late, will be your child. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:50:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I'm not even allowed that on a regular basis? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That's the lot of it, she wasn't upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we're no longer living in the 50's anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could've been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would've been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn't upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I'm not even allowed that on a regular basis? |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:50:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: I'm honestly blown away by how short sighted this post is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That’s the lot of it, she wasn’t upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we’re no longer living in the 50’s anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could’ve been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would’ve been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn’t upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? I'm honestly blown away by how short sighted this post is. If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:51:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Wife's last job before retirement: County funded. Her boss ruled the roost and had virtually no oversight. She would pick up her daughter after school and bring her to the office. Had her own little desk in the office to do her school work. In between running around, disrupting, etc.
Literally half her day was fucking around with her own kid while getting paid for it (with full bennies of course). |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:51:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: No shit. Half of these posts are just depressing. 20 years from now, the only person that'll remember you worked late, will be your child. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:51:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: How's that reduced workload from the new employee working out for you? It is what is it. I don’t make the rules around here. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:52:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Action45]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Worse. Some of them think Marie should have put her self at risk for the employee's sake, both her job and her personal wealth, since holding some employees accountable and allowing others to be exempt from policy can easily turn into an EEOC violation/suit that holds her personally liable along with the company. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: It really doesn't matter, and all of you shitting on OP are wrong. The terms of the job were clearly spelled out in the hiring process. Employee took the job knowing she could not fulfill the requirements. Why is this so hard for some to "get"? Worse. Some of them think Marie should have put her self at risk for the employee's sake, both her job and her personal wealth, since holding some employees accountable and allowing others to be exempt from policy can easily turn into an EEOC violation/suit that holds her personally liable along with the company. Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy? I’m not arguing that employee bares some responsibility here, but it seems like there was zero attempt made to find a flexible solution that benefits all parties involved. Typically when companies can’t fill positions or retain employees it means that it’s not a great place to work. Not my problem though. Refuse to adapt, it seems to be working out really well |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:52:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buck19delta: Somehow businesses have had strict work schedules, and men and women held jobs for decades, yet suddenly in the last 20-40 years women can't hold up their end of things and number of single mothers have exploded, wonder what's happened. Hmm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buck19delta: Originally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By H1Mech: The woman shouldn't have just assumed she can dip whenever for personal reasons. She should've also cleared that out beforehand. And pulling that her first two days was very naive and dumb. But I bet part of the reason she didn't disclose it was she knew she wouldn't get the job if she was honest and forthcoming that she was responsible for her children. Most employers treat people like shit and expect them to put their job above everything else. Regardless, you come across as an asshole who is vindictive and petty. I've learned that's rather normal behavior from women. You sound extremely jealous and bitter towards the other woman for having kids because you went out of your way to mention you don't have kids. It's also ironic that the same GD populace that bitches and moans about people not working think people should be slaves to an employer and nothing else in their life matters or is important. Maybe she was a lazy sack of shit and using the single mom card to skate. Or maybe she was a single mom trying to provide for herself and children. Not every single mom is a lazy whore. Some women were abused, others are widows, etc. And not everyone has a network of family/friends to provide free daycare. There are lots out there that do their very best, but it's extremely hard to simultaneously work full time and care for kids. And it is impossible when an employer acts as yours does. And the comments from others about being forced to stay in the office 9-5 no matter what are straight up bullshit. For what? That's dumb. Licking your employer's boots and working a bunch of OT is not a badge of honor. I genuinely feel a lot of the "millennial" hate comes from jealousy of old people who realize they wasted their entire lives slaving away at a job and they see younger generations rejecting that notion and choosing freedom and enjoying their life over the value of a dollar. Forcing 100% office when the job can be completed remote is dumb in itself, but also forcing to physically stay 8 hours even if the job is complete is laughable. No competent person in any field will ever accept that. You've established that it is a salary position that requires an employee with a very specific skill set and doesn't even require physically being in the office to complete. Your employer is a fucking idiot for mandating that job is a mandatory 8 hours in person every day. They will literally never find anyone that is competent and qualified who will stay there long term. And you are a straight up asshole for just firing her on the spot. You say your employer requires in person and no work from home or leaving early. Unless they are just complete idiots I find that very hard to believe. I bet if you let them know she was qualified, competent and picking up the job fast but needed some flexibility because she was a single mom they would've been more than accommodating so long as the job is completed. I bet the real reason is because you are an asshole and wanted to force her to physically sit in the office for 8 hours a day, even if she's just sitting there twirling her thumbs. Because fuck her and her free time and responsibilities. You're miserable, therefore she will be miserable. You took away a job from a single mom and gave yourself more work to do. Congratulations? She's got a partner, but I don't know anything about his work status. She didn't ask for accommodations. And there is no twiddling your thumbs. There is fucking plenty of work to do. I'm posting in between getting shit done. This is a customer facing job. Customers know we're open 8-5. With the office open 730-530/6, is actually very little OT. I go home at 5 most days and so do most of my coworkers. Sounds like you should be hourly employees then. I bet you'd have an easier time finding employees with a flexible hourly schedule and benefits that are covered if you average more than 30-some hours a week. Somehow businesses have had strict work schedules, and men and women held jobs for decades, yet suddenly in the last 20-40 years women can't hold up their end of things and number of single mothers have exploded, wonder what's happened. Hmm. Beyond the social issues you're alluding to, Salaried positions used to be for management and above of 1099 type employees. OP described an hourly position and is upset with a new-hire expecting salaried treatment. Salary means- get the work done, then do what you want. Hourly means- butt in seat until pre-agreed time. The new hire fucked up, but OP is the one who will be hurt by this. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:52:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fushaw: It's irrelevant. No children, "womenbosses" always love to shit on the mothers when they're the exact cause of this situation. The office manager in this situation sounds like a boomer "I lock up and you show up and go home when I say type". OP just fired someone who on day 2 was producing excellent work albeit with some scheduling issues. And now we're going to hear about how hard it is to find help for this job on a biweekly basis until the next poor soul gets through the interview process. OP's ideal candidate is one who wants to worship work for 8 hours a day because "that's just the way it is" and any other personal responsibilities are far less important than work. Better be paying 500k+/yr for that level of BS. Why are you acting like this is Marie's fault? She's boxed in by ownerships policies (no matter how dumb they are) on one side, and creating a civil liability for herself and the company on the other. I sincerely doubt she's happy she got to "stick it to a dumb breeder" or whatever, when it means more work for her and she has no influence over shifting policy. The labor market may very well force the ownership to shift policy or die, but that doesn't sound like something a middle manager has any control over, and why middle management is so widely condemned as a shitty place to be. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:52:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. Crabs in a bucket. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:52:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: No shit. Half of these posts are just depressing. 20 years from now, the only person that'll remember you worked late, will be your child. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By CanaryCamaro: Threads like this make me appreciate my WFH job with management that understands a work life balance. I’m a father to two young girls and have commitments where I have to leave early twice a week to do things with them. I make up my time and then some each week. Edited to add good firing. Sounds like she didn’t clearly communicate the need to leave early every damn day. No shit. Half of these posts are just depressing. 20 years from now, the only person that'll remember you worked late, will be your child. BOOM |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:53:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Action45: Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy? I’m not arguing that employee bares some responsibility here, but it seems like there was zero attempt made to find a flexible solution that benefits all parties involved. Typically when companies can’t fill positions or retain employees it means that it’s not a great place to work. Not my problem though. Refuse to adapt, it seems to be working out really well She was offered part time. That’s the only accommodation possible with the constraints I have to deal with. She didn’t want it. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:53:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That’s the lot of it, she wasn’t upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we’re no longer living in the 50’s anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could’ve been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would’ve been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn’t upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? I'm honestly blown away by how short sighted this post is. If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. It's almost like you have been struggling to fill an open position for months and have been unable to find a willing candidate. It's almost like you and your coworkers may be in a position to leverage this into a more wfh hybrid situation for everyone. Almost. Or just keep doing the work of two people for one person's pay. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:54:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. It sounds like you need to explore the job market, honestly. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:54:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Action45: It's a scam. One of the main reasons people who used to work in offices don't want to go back is so they can avoid these middle management power trips. LOL at treating your workplace like a religion when you're simply an employee Nothing like praying to your gods for 15 years and then getting RIF'd because you make 2% more than the next guy, even though he's a slacker and you're a rockstar. One of my biggest takeaways from college psychology and business classes is that people will always do what they are incentivized to do. Big business has incentivized being a heartless mercenary with loyalty only to yourself. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:54:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I'm not even allowed that on a regular basis? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That's the lot of it, she wasn't upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we're no longer living in the 50's anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could've been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would've been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn't upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I'm not even allowed that on a regular basis? a "it's not fair" mindset is illogical You should go to bat for someone if they make your life/job better at no cost to you. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:55:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: It sounds like you need to explore the job market, honestly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: Originally Posted By Marie: If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. It sounds like you need to explore the job market, honestly. I don’t mind being in the office. It’s actually easier for a lot of stuff |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:55:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Why are you acting like this is Marie's fault? She's boxed in by ownerships policies (no matter how dumb they are) on one side, and creating a civil liability for herself and the company on the other. I sincerely doubt she's happy she got to "stick it to a dumb breeder" or whatever, when it means more work for her and she has no influence over shifting policy. The labor market may very well force the ownership to shift policy or die, but that doesn't sound like something a middle manager has any control over, and why middle management is so widely condemned as a shitty place to be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Originally Posted By Fushaw: It's irrelevant. No children, "womenbosses" always love to shit on the mothers when they're the exact cause of this situation. The office manager in this situation sounds like a boomer "I lock up and you show up and go home when I say type". OP just fired someone who on day 2 was producing excellent work albeit with some scheduling issues. And now we're going to hear about how hard it is to find help for this job on a biweekly basis until the next poor soul gets through the interview process. OP's ideal candidate is one who wants to worship work for 8 hours a day because "that's just the way it is" and any other personal responsibilities are far less important than work. Better be paying 500k+/yr for that level of BS. Why are you acting like this is Marie's fault? She's boxed in by ownerships policies (no matter how dumb they are) on one side, and creating a civil liability for herself and the company on the other. I sincerely doubt she's happy she got to "stick it to a dumb breeder" or whatever, when it means more work for her and she has no influence over shifting policy. The labor market may very well force the ownership to shift policy or die, but that doesn't sound like something a middle manager has any control over, and why middle management is so widely condemned as a shitty place to be. She said it in her own words. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:55:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dex71: I don't have an opinion on the way you feel about the lady. BUT, I'm guessing she thought it was a shit place to work on her first day and by day 2 she didn't care if she got fired, quit or let go. I could be wrong. I think the next person you should hire should be a clone of you. No kids and loves woking for people who do it the "old" way. I mean, good luck finding that person. 100% this 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:55:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By Creatyre: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That’s the lot of it, she wasn’t upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we’re no longer living in the 50’s anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could’ve been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would’ve been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn’t upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? I'm honestly blown away by how short sighted this post is. If I’m not allowed WFH on a regular basis, why do you think they would allow a brand new employee to do it? I’m the one who keeps their ass straight with Customs and im still not allowed to WFH regularly. Could you advocate for a hybrid schedule, get her back on board and run that for a while. then when you help prop her up as successful in doing so (and show the amazing work) get yourself in the same schedule? Sometimes you need to make the tools, play the game, and then benefit from it. Most times you need to do the work, and make it someone else's idea... and then benefit from it. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:56:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Worse. Some of them think Marie should have put her self at risk for the employee's sake, both her job and her personal wealth, since holding some employees accountable and allowing others to be exempt from policy can easily turn into an EEOC violation/suit that holds her personally liable along with the company. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: It really doesn't matter, and all of you shitting on OP are wrong. The terms of the job were clearly spelled out in the hiring process. Employee took the job knowing she could not fulfill the requirements. Why is this so hard for some to "get"? Worse. Some of them think Marie should have put her self at risk for the employee's sake, both her job and her personal wealth, since holding some employees accountable and allowing others to be exempt from policy can easily turn into an EEOC violation/suit that holds her personally liable along with the company. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:56:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: a "it's not fair" mindset is illogical You should go to bat for someone if they make your life/job better at no cost to you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By ATLDiver: That's the lot of it, she wasn't upfront about needing accommodations and why? The question is, would you have hired her if she did and been accommodating? For as many people bitch we're no longer living in the 50's anymore, these same people refuse to live in reality. There are plenty of ways this could've been handled resulting in keeping a productive employee which is kind of rare today. Sounds to me an easy concession would've been ok leave at 3 to pick up your kids but WFH until 6 (or whenever the assigned work for the day is done.) Since this employee wasn't upfront about her situation maybe not her but your company is going to have to make exceptions to fill that position with a competent employee. More money or more flexibility. Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I'm not even allowed that on a regular basis? a "it's not fair" mindset is illogical You should go to bat for someone if they make your life/job better at no cost to you. Nope. If I’m not allowed to do it and the other person in the department who has been here 13 years is not allows to do it, there’s no fucking way I’m going to ask for WFH for a brand new employee. They’d say no, anyway. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:56:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: I don’t mind being in the office. It’s actually easier for a lot of stuff Not only that, but see if you can get more money for doing what you're already doing. I'm sure there are other rigid workplace style jobs who would value someone with your work ethic. Leverage that as a pay raise! |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:57:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Why would I go to bat for her to WFH when I’m not even allowed that on a regular basis? Well, your bosses inflexibility on this is causing you the trouble. From his point of view, he’s getting the work done he wants the way he wants so he’s not incentivized to change. I would politely sit down with him and explain that without paying a lot more money or changing the working dynamics in the office, you’re going to have a hard time filling “butts in seats.” Companies have to adapt, have to be flexible or they cease to exist. Unfortunately, you’re going to take the brunt of this until you get burned out and leave or your bosses have a pain point. I’ve worked for these old relics expecting the world to stay the same as it was “back in the day,” one of the reasons so many have Boomer hatred as these types won’t go and retire out. Better or worse the ‘office’ environment has changed and businesses have to adapt. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:57:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Action45: Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy? I’m not arguing that employee bares some responsibility here, but it seems like there was zero attempt made to find a flexible solution that benefits all parties involved. Typically when companies can’t fill positions or retain employees it means that it’s not a great place to work. Not my problem though. Refuse to adapt, it seems to be working out really well Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Action45: Originally Posted By Kuraki: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: It really doesn't matter, and all of you shitting on OP are wrong. The terms of the job were clearly spelled out in the hiring process. Employee took the job knowing she could not fulfill the requirements. Why is this so hard for some to "get"? Worse. Some of them think Marie should have put her self at risk for the employee's sake, both her job and her personal wealth, since holding some employees accountable and allowing others to be exempt from policy can easily turn into an EEOC violation/suit that holds her personally liable along with the company. Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy? I’m not arguing that employee bares some responsibility here, but it seems like there was zero attempt made to find a flexible solution that benefits all parties involved. Typically when companies can’t fill positions or retain employees it means that it’s not a great place to work. Not my problem though. Refuse to adapt, it seems to be working out really well Wrong. They offered to keep her on in a part-time status. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:57:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By Marie: Nearly every office job I have ever had after college, I have gotten work dumped on me by coworkers with kids. They were always given permission to leave early, come in late, take off in the middle of the day - anything that involved the kids, or so they said, and NEVER had to make the time off. While if I took off a few hours for a doctor appointment, I had to work late/through my lunch if I didn't want to lose vacation time. Right now, one of my coworkers has an underling that has been leaving early a couple days a week to pick up her DOG from daycare. He'll be reaming her out about that later this morning. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:57:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marie: Nope. If I’m not allowed to do it and the other person in the department who has been here 13 years is not allows to do it, there’s no fucking way I’m going to ask for WFH for a brand new employee. They’d say no, anyway. Did you get paid the same amount? |
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