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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:36:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Maybe Musk will set his sights on planes next and I can just have a solar field to charge my 2 seater on either side of the runway. BOOM! No more fuel cost!!  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By MattyMattel: When I worked at a Cincinnati Lunken FBO, we had some plane owners that were just regular guys. Post office worker with a 172. Flew it so little we'd have to go air up the tires to keep the ramp from looking like shit. Part timer in the FBO/CPA or something. Went into a partnership on a Grumman Tiger. Didn't see him fly much either. Cliff the Slumlord/occasional CFI, with a POS 152. "Hey Donnie.....go get Jeff(FBO A&P) Cliff's working on his POS again!!!" He eventually got booted out. Nothing in Aviation is cheap. Sure as hell not the fuel either. Maybe Musk will set his sights on planes next and I can just have a solar field to charge my 2 seater on either side of the runway. BOOM! No more fuel cost!! This one will supposedly be offered for about $45k, including the gas or electric motor. I don’t know how close they actually are to finalizing the design.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:42:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tooldforthis: ooooooooooooohhhm, the JUST superstol that baby is on my short list to replace my 180 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tooldforthis: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Your requirements would be something like a C172. More like $20-30 K for an engine. Prop is maybe $10k ish. It’s been a long time. The unknown unknowns are what get you. The wing spar inspection you weren’t expecting, etc. and Avionics. Much of that can be mitigated by finding a guy who really, really, knows the type aircraft you are looking at, and doing a thorough pre purchase inspection. Go to Oshkosh and spend a couple days asking questions. Great people, and pilots love to talk shop. These are LSA which are affordable to operate. However, they are oddly expensive, and you ain’t putting a guest and a dog and bags into one for a cross country trip. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12451/IMG_3314_jpeg-3199620.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12451/IMG_3315_jpeg-3199621.JPG ooooooooooooohhhm, the JUST superstol that baby is on my short list to replace my 180 My son wants to join the airforce, but I’m tempted to just buy a LSA and just say, here, go fly this for 1000 hrs, do a little instructing and get a damned job Fast. We all have our path though.  |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperSixOne]
[#3]
Aviation is the most regulated industry in the United States.
That piper Cherokee people are telling you about with the 12k annual inspection and 40k motor that burns $6/gallon gas is the cheapest thing you can buy. Most LSA's are going to be north of 100k. One of my favorite aviation stories was about a dude who bought into a Citation I was flying. He didn't want us to press the brakes on landing because he calculated each application was about $100. A brake job was about $28,000 and we got 350 landings before it needed another one. He sold out when a seatbelt scratched a window and cost $80,000 to fix. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:42:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: You lost me with "over the limit"....what limit and what are you referring to? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: Well this is where prior planning prevents piss poor performance.....if you do run over the limit you can request a "maintenance flight" to get you to where you need to go. I will say you might have to have a ferry pilot do the maintenance flight. These are pilots paid to fly aircraft sometimes out of the "tolerance window" of the operating manual. Such as: https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/news/the-latest/the-story-behind-the-cessna-172-that-flew-from-california-to-hawaii/ Probably depends on what maintenance action is required but this is way outside of my knowledge....hell some of the above is really old stuff and might be out of date....take my comments as a basic informational stuff and not anything close to the real laws on the matter. You lost me with "over the limit"....what limit and what are you referring to? I should have had my oil change done....say 40 flight hours ago....and similar stuff. Keep in mind there are AD's (example isn't really an AD but an AD came out of it and if not equipped it cannot legally fly) that can just plain ground your aircraft, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings Now vary rare event but be prepared for the worst. Most AD's come up an annuals just like the one mentioned in the next post. Others have timelines you must do X by this date or else. The annual you got done last week means absolutely nothing in that case if it applies to your aircraft. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:44:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: So $10k repairs on a 2 seater sport license plane... is that dropping in a crate motor or ???? Not being sarcastic, genuinely asking to learn what maintenance and repairs actually look like. Thanks! My last annual inspection cost me over 22k. No new engine. Still needed a partial rebuild because of some corrosion on a 400 hour engine. Plus, there was an AD on the prop govoner, so that had to be replaced. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:46:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: I was kinda exaggerating (obviously) but I truly do recommend getting something over powered. 182’s are as cheap as 172’s. That would be my pick. Watching those training airplanes really did used to make my ‘nads retract, even though I had over 2000 hrs in Cessnas often flying into short fields and grass. A 182 is definitely on my list. Initially I thought about a Vans RV9A. I’m just not sure if that would have the power to safely and comfortably go the places I want to go. I’m surrounded by some pretty serious mountains on three sides. Not to mention my best friend lives in California. It’d be cool to be able to go see her at times. However there’s a little mountain range between here and there as well. I think they call it the Sierras  Some of the Pipers are intriguing to me. Primarily the Dakota. Seems like a low wing 182. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:47:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperSixOne: Aviation is the most regulated industry in the United States. That piper Cherokee people are telling you about with the 12k annual inspection and 40k motor that burns $6/gallon gas is the cheapest thing you can buy. Most LSA's are going to be north of 100k. One of my favorite aviation stories was about a dude who bought into a Citation I was flying. He didn't want us to press the brakes on landing because he calculated each application was about $100. A brake job was about $28,000 and we got about 350 landings before it needed another one. He sold out when a seatbelt scratched a window and cost $80,000 to fix. Absolute truth. Even a good Cherokee 180 is now north of 100K That is why you build your own Still not cheap by any means and still gonna be close to 100K but, alot to be said for building your own |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:59:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Haven't looked at aircraft options in a couple years but again sport/light sport so just 2 seats, enclosed and no frills would be great. Joined a couple FB groups for sport piloting I need to read through. But that's the route I'd go. No way in hell I'd have the time to build my own! What do A&P charge for hourly labor? If it'd be like $2k-$5k a year with $10k being super rare...as far as yearly maintenance and repairs...cool! Otherwise not sure I'd be able to justify the training/plane ownership despite being able to afford it. Same reason I'll never buy a German or Italian car. I'm an A&P. I work at a flight school and get paid $30/hr. The guys that work at Delta/United/insert other big-name airlines get paid between $27/hr and $90/hr depending on how long they have worked there and what licenses they hold. As an A&P, I can perform hourly inspections and perform any maintenance that does not require a FAA Form 337 (major repair and alteration) or a Supplemental Type Certificate. Any repair or alteration that is considered to be "major," and/or an annual inspection, requires the signature of an A&P holder who also has an Inspection Authorization. For example: Removing and replacing a damaged aileron with a new or previously repaired part = minor repair. Installing a glass cockpit into a plane that was certificated with a 6-pack gauge cluster = major alteration. Most of the A&Ps and IAs that I have talked to will either bill an hourly rate, or a flat fee, for the inspection. I can do an entire 100hr inspection on a Cessna 172 in roughly 12 hours. A typical 100hr inspection usually involves opening up or removing inspection panels on the wings and empennage, removing the seats, carpet, and inspection panels in the cabin, removing the engine cowling, all in order to do the actual inspection. Other work involved could include changing the engine oil and filter, removing and inspecting the spark plugs, etc. Once the inspection is complete, the A&P or IA will give you a list of discrepancies. That list is a list of things that the person doing the inspection found to be in need of correction. Some samples include: Corrosion found on spar in right wing. Both MLG brake pads worn beyond spec and need replacing. Two spark plugs found to be bad. NLG strut leaking hydraulic fluid. Cylinder #4 compression at 30/80 PSI. In order to have those discrepancies fixed, and your plane to be signed off as airworthy, the price goes up. You pay additional labor to the A&P to do the work, plus the cost of parts. You also have to have access (or hope that the mechanic has access) to the various Manufacurer's Maintenance Manuals for your particular airplane. For a brief example for the cost of parts, a spark plug for a Lycoming IO-360 runs around $60. That engine has 8 of them. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:10:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitulu: I'm an A&P. I work at a flight school and get paid $30/hr. The guys that work at Delta/United/insert other big-name airlines get paid between $27/hr and $90/hr depending on how long they have worked there and what licenses they hold. As an A&P, I can perform hourly inspections and perform any maintenance that does not require a FAA Form 337 (major repair and alteration) or a Supplemental Type Certificate. Any repair or alteration that is considered to be "major," and/or an annual inspection, requires the signature of an A&P holder who also has an Inspection Authorization. For example: Removing and replacing a damaged aileron with a new or previously repaired part = minor repair. Installing a glass cockpit into a plane that was certificated with a 6-pack gauge cluster = major alteration. Most of the A&Ps and IAs that I have talked to will either bill an hourly rate, or a flat fee, for the inspection. I can do an entire 100hr inspection on a Cessna 172 in roughly 12 hours. A typical 100hr inspection usually involves opening up or removing inspection panels on the wings and empennage, removing the seats, carpet, and inspection panels in the cabin, removing the engine cowling, all in order to do the actual inspection. Other work involved could include changing the engine oil and filter, removing and inspecting the spark plugs, etc. Once the inspection is complete, the A&P or IA will give you a list of discrepancies. That list is a list of things that the person doing the inspection found to be in need of correction. Some samples include: Corrosion found on spar in right wing. Both MLG brake pads worn beyond spec and need replacing. Two spark plugs found to be bad. NLG strut leaking hydraulic fluid. Cylinder #4 compression at 30/80 PSI. In order to have those discrepancies fixed, and your plane to be signed off as airworthy, the price goes up. You pay additional labor to the A&P to do the work, plus the cost of parts. You also have to have access (or hope that the mechanic has access) to the various Manufacurer's Maintenance Manuals for your particular airplane. For a brief example for the cost of parts, a spark plug for a Lycoming IO-360 runs around $60. That engine has 8 of them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitulu: Originally Posted By Emt1581: Haven't looked at aircraft options in a couple years but again sport/light sport so just 2 seats, enclosed and no frills would be great. Joined a couple FB groups for sport piloting I need to read through. But that's the route I'd go. No way in hell I'd have the time to build my own! What do A&P charge for hourly labor? If it'd be like $2k-$5k a year with $10k being super rare...as far as yearly maintenance and repairs...cool! Otherwise not sure I'd be able to justify the training/plane ownership despite being able to afford it. Same reason I'll never buy a German or Italian car. I'm an A&P. I work at a flight school and get paid $30/hr. The guys that work at Delta/United/insert other big-name airlines get paid between $27/hr and $90/hr depending on how long they have worked there and what licenses they hold. As an A&P, I can perform hourly inspections and perform any maintenance that does not require a FAA Form 337 (major repair and alteration) or a Supplemental Type Certificate. Any repair or alteration that is considered to be "major," and/or an annual inspection, requires the signature of an A&P holder who also has an Inspection Authorization. For example: Removing and replacing a damaged aileron with a new or previously repaired part = minor repair. Installing a glass cockpit into a plane that was certificated with a 6-pack gauge cluster = major alteration. Most of the A&Ps and IAs that I have talked to will either bill an hourly rate, or a flat fee, for the inspection. I can do an entire 100hr inspection on a Cessna 172 in roughly 12 hours. A typical 100hr inspection usually involves opening up or removing inspection panels on the wings and empennage, removing the seats, carpet, and inspection panels in the cabin, removing the engine cowling, all in order to do the actual inspection. Other work involved could include changing the engine oil and filter, removing and inspecting the spark plugs, etc. Once the inspection is complete, the A&P or IA will give you a list of discrepancies. That list is a list of things that the person doing the inspection found to be in need of correction. Some samples include: Corrosion found on spar in right wing. Both MLG brake pads worn beyond spec and need replacing. Two spark plugs found to be bad. NLG strut leaking hydraulic fluid. Cylinder #4 compression at 30/80 PSI. In order to have those discrepancies fixed, and your plane to be signed off as airworthy, the price goes up. You pay additional labor to the A&P to do the work, plus the cost of parts. You also have to have access (or hope that the mechanic has access) to the various Manufacurer's Maintenance Manuals for your particular airplane. For a brief example for the cost of parts, a spark plug for a Lycoming IO-360 runs around $60. That engine has 8 of them. What airport do you work at? What kind of airplanes? (OP, this is the man you need to be friends with. send him a case of good whisky, case a .223 and a couple dozen PMags asap.) |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:15:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: What airport do you work at? What kind of airplanes? (OP, this is the man you need to be friends with. send him a case of good whisky, case a .223 and a couple dozen PMags asap.) Based on avatar and parts of post....going to guess a flight school in FL with C-172's...but based on some of my other random guesses....could be India.... 
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:17:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperSixOne: Aviation is the most regulated industry in the United States. That piper Cherokee people are telling you about with the 12k annual inspection and 40k motor that burns $6/gallon gas is the cheapest thing you can buy. Most LSA's are going to be north of 100k. One of my favorite aviation stories was about a dude who bought into a Citation I was flying. He didn't want us to press the brakes on landing because he calculated each application was about $100. A brake job was about $28,000 and we got 350 landings before it needed another one. He sold out when a seatbelt scratched a window and cost $80,000 to fix.  You and I could swap stories like that, for hours. I really don't miss the corporate world that much. Really hated those $38,000 - $64,000 annuals. On fairly new airplanes. Hated when rough handed pilots broke a $6000 sun visor.The brake pads on the Pilatus were so much, we bought a shady conversion kit for like 30k, just so future brake changes would only be 10k.
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:20:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scoobysmak: Based on avatar and parts of post....going to guess a flight school in FL with C-172's...but based on some of my other random guesses....could be India.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scoobysmak: Originally Posted By BillofRights: What airport do you work at? What kind of airplanes? (OP, this is the man you need to be friends with. send him a case of good whisky, case a .223 and a couple dozen PMags asap.) Based on avatar and parts of post....going to guess a flight school in FL with C-172's...but based on some of my other random guesses....could be India.... You would be correct. Not about the India part, lol. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:21:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tooldforthis: Absolute truth. Even a good Cherokee 180 is now north of 100K That is why you build your own Still not cheap by any means and still gonna be close to 100K but, alot to be said for building your own Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tooldforthis: Originally Posted By SuperSixOne: Aviation is the most regulated industry in the United States. That piper Cherokee people are telling you about with the 12k annual inspection and 40k motor that burns $6/gallon gas is the cheapest thing you can buy. Most LSA's are going to be north of 100k. One of my favorite aviation stories was about a dude who bought into a Citation I was flying. He didn't want us to press the brakes on landing because he calculated each application was about $100. A brake job was about $28,000 and we got about 350 landings before it needed another one. He sold out when a seatbelt scratched a window and cost $80,000 to fix. Absolute truth. Even a good Cherokee 180 is now north of 100K That is why you build your own Still not cheap by any means and still gonna be close to 100K but, alot to be said for building your own Build an airplane because you want to build, not to get an airplane. Otherwise the project is likely to join thousands of other unfinished projects. That includes modern kitted airplanes with piles of work finished. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:30:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saablook: I know just enough about this subject to sound stupid. We have an aviation forum, ask there. All subforums on all sites, are essentially devoid of traffic. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:38:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sprtpilot: All subforums on all sites, are essentially devoid of traffic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sprtpilot: Originally Posted By Saablook: I know just enough about this subject to sound stupid. We have an aviation forum, ask there. All subforums on all sites, are essentially devoid of traffic. Even GD is mostly devoid of traffic these days. Like STL, it’s a ghost of it’s former self. The aviation forum does get a bit of traffic though. Wouldn’t hurt to cross post it. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:05:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sprtpilot: All subforums on all sites, are essentially devoid of traffic. The FB groups seem active. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:12:47 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:31:39 AM EDT
[#18]
This guy completely full of shit (on experimentals/light sports) and associated costs, being able to do the work yourself, etc??
From the very little digging I did tonight it seems like these MOSAIC rule changes are pretty significant for allowing more plane options and more capabilities for Sport pilots. Still only one passenger though.   How to Actually Afford an Airplane Thanks! |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:05:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: This guy completely full of shit (on experimentals/light sports) and associated costs, being able to do the work yourself, etc?? From the very little digging I did tonight it seems like these MOSAIC rule changes are pretty significant for allowing more plane options and more capabilities for Sport pilots. Still only one passenger though.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAOEO6ngO50Thanks! Interesting, never saw anything previously about the 2 day course for working on experimental aircraft until I watched the video. I didn't look how many followers he has but honestly if he were lying I would imagine that either it would be in the comments or the FAA might have a word with him......  ETA...even if I got the 2 day course I would still pay for at least an assisted annual from an A&P the first year, probably for me maybe every other year after the first 2 or 3 just to make sure I have it down. It never hurts to get more than 1 set of eyes that are looking for something that might kill you if missed. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:33:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1BMF]
[#20]
I’m an LSA instructor.
You’re better off earning a private pilots license and getting a Cherokee or Cessna with parts available. Minimum is 20 hours but expect closer to 40. Standards are the same as private pilot, it just has a little bit more involved like night flying and longer cross country flight experience. Faa created “light sport repairman” certification to work on some LSA’s yourself. Doing shade tree maintenance on an airplane is asking for problems, especially if you’re a low experience pilot. Planes doubled and tripled in price coming out of Covid. Ten years ago you could get a basic Cherokee or Cessna 150 for $20k, and an older 172 for $30–$40k. A Cherokee or 172 will cost you almost $100k now, if not more. Also, LSA’s are built to be light to stay under the weigh limit. Their landing gear is nowhere near as robust as a Cherokee or Cessna 150. Could be an issue on a grass strip, they also usually had a wooden or carbon fiber prop which can get damaged easier on grass. Cessna built an LSA, the 162 Sky catcher aka the ground catcher. They were so bad Cessna crushed the last 70+ completed airplanes with engines still installed, didn’t even take them apart for spares lol. |
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VI, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:45:21 AM EDT
[#21]
Not that paved was bad, it was a long runway, so that allows bigger stuff to fly in.
Think of John Travolta flying his 707 in and out of Spruce Creek. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:48:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Yup. Weight limit, altitude limit and only one additional human allowed on board. I breezed through the text/manual in a weekend a couple years back. But while the local flight club is 5 min up the street there's no option to get sport pilot instruction there. Thanks Probably due to liability. Sport Pilot’s get such minimal training, I’m surprised there aren’t more incidents. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:49:40 AM EDT
[#23]
You don't really save much money doing sport pilot.
might as well do private pilot instead and then get an LSA if that's what you want. I've trained several dozen people that started out as "sport pilot" students only to have them figure it out and change to private pilot |
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VI, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:02:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kachael]
[#24]
As a A&P I looked into getting a single engined airplane several years ago and you need to keep a very tight focus on staying within your boundaries, not just budget.
Example something like a C150 or C172 are about the simplest singles out there, but most of these are tired since flight schools use the crap out of these. Some Beechs and Pipers are also simple but now you have additional oleo struts to leak on you. Then you Start to see more complex aircraft in your price range but remember a CS prop, fuel injection, turbos and retractable rear shoots the costs through the roof. LSA are not cheap anymore and homebuilts can be iffy. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:03:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: Well, I’m glad you have a well paying job, ‘cause in Denver, you’ll need a Turboprop at a bare minimum. I used to Hated watching the 172’s wallow into the air. Really unnatural and terrifying. It’s the equivalent of a fully fueled 172 at sea level, loaded up with 4 Midcap 8’s, on One mag, with the Carb Heat on, taking off uphill with a tailwind. In August at 2500 msl. Used to fly into Montrose in the MD80. We’d watch 177’s and 210’s come and go. Not my cup of tea. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:04:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: This one will supposedly be offered for about $45k, including the gas or electric motor. I don't know how close they actually are to finalizing the design. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12451/IMG_3301_jpeg-3199625.JPG |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:10:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1BMF: I’m an LSA instructor. You’re better off earning a private pilots license and getting a Cherokee or Cessna with parts available. Minimum is 20 hours but expect closer to 40. Standards are the same as private pilot, it just has a little bit more involved like night flying and longer cross country flight experience. Faa created “light sport repairman” certification to work on some LSA’s yourself. Doing shade tree maintenance on an airplane is asking for problems, especially if you’re a low experience pilot. Planes doubled and tripled in price coming out of Covid. Ten years ago you could get a basic Cherokee or Cessna 150 for $20k, and an older 172 for $30–$40k. A Cherokee or 172 will cost you almost $100k now, if not more. Also, LSA’s are built to be light to stay under the weigh limit. Their landing gear is nowhere near as robust as a Cherokee or Cessna 150. Could be an issue on a grass strip, they also usually had a wooden or carbon fiber prop which can get damaged easier on grass. Cessna built an LSA, the 162 Sky catcher aka the ground catcher. They were so bad Cessna crushed the last 70+ completed airplanes with engines still installed, didn’t even take them apart for spares lol. Appreciate the info but unless DL passes for medical for private pilot it's not likely an option for me. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:10:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By right_rudder: You don't really save much money doing sport pilot. might as well do private pilot instead and then get an LSA if that's what you want. I've trained several dozen people that started out as "sport pilot" students only to have them figure it out and change to private pilot See my last response. I guess I need to update the OP. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:18:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: If it's kept on my property, how would anyone know what I'm doing to it? Not saying I wouldn't learn or hire someone....just asking. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff: If you build your own plane you are able to do your own maintenance. Otherwise you'll need an A&P mechanic to sign off on work. If it's kept on my property, how would anyone know what I'm doing to it? Not saying I wouldn't learn or hire someone....just asking. I'm not up to date on Sport aircraft restrictions.... but in general, Annual registration inspects log books. Good luck selling an aircraft without a compete log books and DIY maintenance. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:19:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Appreciate taking the time to share that info!! Kinda seems like, if doing the private property thing...I'd need to pay a mechanic to come on to my property for work or fly to them for maintenance to keep the "book" on the up and up. That can't be cheap. Or you fly it to your maintenance center and get a ride home and back when it’s done. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:24:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: This guy completely full of shit (on experimentals/light sports) and associated costs, being able to do the work yourself, etc?? From the very little digging I did tonight it seems like these MOSAIC rule changes are pretty significant for allowing more plane options and more capabilities for Sport pilots. Still only one passenger though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAOEO6ngO50Thanks! If you can't get an FAA medical, why would you want to kill anyone other than yourself in the airplane? MOSAIC will probably drive up the prices of Cessnas and Pipers again. The rules aren't final though but a 3k gross limit would open up a lot of airplanes. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: See my last response. I guess I need to update the OP. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By right_rudder: You don't really save much money doing sport pilot. might as well do private pilot instead and then get an LSA if that's what you want. I've trained several dozen people that started out as "sport pilot" students only to have them figure it out and change to private pilot See my last response. I guess I need to update the OP. something else to consider, even as a sport pilot, you have an accident and they find out that you KNEW you were not medically qualified, your insurance will not pay/cover any damages. I've been consulted by many insurance companies after an accident someone had. I've also been a member of the FAA FAST team and been selected to do remedial training for pilots under FAA scrutiny. if you know you would not be able to get a 3rd class, I wouldn't fly. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:13:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: Well, I’m glad you have a well paying job, ‘cause in Denver, you’ll need a Turboprop at a bare minimum. I used to Hated watching the 172’s wallow into the air. Really unnatural and terrifying. It’s the equivalent of a fully fueled 172 at sea level, loaded up with 4 Midcap 8’s, on One mag, with the Carb Heat on, taking off uphill with a tailwind. In August at 2500 msl. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By denverdan: Originally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: Because an aircraft has a "book" that follows it around, you sell the plane the book goes with it. If you loose the book the plane could be worth less than half of what anyone else is selling theirs with the book. This book contains ALL aircraft maintenance and records, such as an incident were replacement parts are needed. I have seen hard landing also documented. Aircraft are a totally different game of having to have the latest updates and modifications done, called AD's: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/continued_operation/ad/mcai I am just going to make up one that might exist but honestly don't know. Say there was an AD for any Cirrus SR-22 aircraft to replace the parachute every 20 years. Say this cost around 100k. Say you did this 1.5 years ago but are now ill and can't fly and just going to sell the aircraft. Without having the documentation to prove you did it the next owner will have to do it again before they can legally fly it except for maybe a mainteance flight to get it to a place that can perform the AD. This is also a reason to make sure you keep this book updated. You also have to do what they call annuals on the aircraft. Unless you "built" at least 51% of that aircraft you cannot maintain it and an A&P will have to sign off the annual (not sure if say you built one and have that documented and buy an EXACT same model). This also is not like going and replacing the hood strut on your car because you got hit in the head last week checking the oil. You document everything, because when there is a crash the FAA is going to look at the "book" and determine if it had ANYTHING to do with what happened. If you don't have this information after the incident available then better buy some 55 gallon drums of lube and get ready for the gangbang. There are companies that sell software to track this stuff, also makes it easier for people to get the information. https://veryon.com/flightdocs-maintenance Look at all the United flights with parts falling off and the Boeing clusterfuck with the door cap. They will be ripped for this stuff and is why your required to keep the records. If you don't the liability could be all you own along with all your kids own if you can't prove you maintained your aircraft. I saw once documented that: A&P performed "such and such" maintenance action....10mmm socket lost while doing procedure. Appreciate taking the time to share that info!! Kinda seems like, if doing the private property thing...I'd need to pay a mechanic to come on to my property for work or fly to them for maintenance to keep the "book" on the up and up. That can't be cheap. Nothing about flying is cheap. I’m just a dumb student pilot and I spend a shit ton just learning. My headset alone was $1000.00. I’m lucky enough to have a well paying job so I’m not going broke doing it. I hope to eventually buy a plane. I have researched the shit out of plane ownership so I have a decent idea of what I’m in store for. $$$$$$$$$ Well, I’m glad you have a well paying job, ‘cause in Denver, you’ll need a Turboprop at a bare minimum. I used to Hated watching the 172’s wallow into the air. Really unnatural and terrifying. It’s the equivalent of a fully fueled 172 at sea level, loaded up with 4 Midcap 8’s, on One mag, with the Carb Heat on, taking off uphill with a tailwind. In August at 2500 msl. Sorry going to have to call BS on this. Complete BS I’m afraid. Normally aspirated piston engines are absolutely fine in the west. Know what you’re doing. Respect density altitude. Go get your license OP. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:08:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BillofRights]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By skylane: Sorry going to have to call BS on this. Complete BS I’m afraid. Normally aspirated piston engines are absolutely fine in the west. Know what you’re doing. Respect density altitude. Go get your license OP. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By skylane: Originally Posted By BillofRights: Originally Posted By denverdan: Originally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: Because an aircraft has a "book" that follows it around, you sell the plane the book goes with it. If you loose the book the plane could be worth less than half of what anyone else is selling theirs with the book. This book contains ALL aircraft maintenance and records, such as an incident were replacement parts are needed. I have seen hard landing also documented. Aircraft are a totally different game of having to have the latest updates and modifications done, called AD's: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/continued_operation/ad/mcai I am just going to make up one that might exist but honestly don't know. Say there was an AD for any Cirrus SR-22 aircraft to replace the parachute every 20 years. Say this cost around 100k. Say you did this 1.5 years ago but are now ill and can't fly and just going to sell the aircraft. Without having the documentation to prove you did it the next owner will have to do it again before they can legally fly it except for maybe a mainteance flight to get it to a place that can perform the AD. This is also a reason to make sure you keep this book updated. You also have to do what they call annuals on the aircraft. Unless you "built" at least 51% of that aircraft you cannot maintain it and an A&P will have to sign off the annual (not sure if say you built one and have that documented and buy an EXACT same model). This also is not like going and replacing the hood strut on your car because you got hit in the head last week checking the oil. You document everything, because when there is a crash the FAA is going to look at the "book" and determine if it had ANYTHING to do with what happened. If you don't have this information after the incident available then better buy some 55 gallon drums of lube and get ready for the gangbang. There are companies that sell software to track this stuff, also makes it easier for people to get the information. https://veryon.com/flightdocs-maintenance Look at all the United flights with parts falling off and the Boeing clusterfuck with the door cap. They will be ripped for this stuff and is why your required to keep the records. If you don't the liability could be all you own along with all your kids own if you can't prove you maintained your aircraft. I saw once documented that: A&P performed "such and such" maintenance action....10mmm socket lost while doing procedure. Appreciate taking the time to share that info!! Kinda seems like, if doing the private property thing...I'd need to pay a mechanic to come on to my property for work or fly to them for maintenance to keep the "book" on the up and up. That can't be cheap. Nothing about flying is cheap. I’m just a dumb student pilot and I spend a shit ton just learning. My headset alone was $1000.00. I’m lucky enough to have a well paying job so I’m not going broke doing it. I hope to eventually buy a plane. I have researched the shit out of plane ownership so I have a decent idea of what I’m in store for. $$$$$$$$$ Well, I’m glad you have a well paying job, ‘cause in Denver, you’ll need a Turboprop at a bare minimum. I used to Hated watching the 172’s wallow into the air. Really unnatural and terrifying. It’s the equivalent of a fully fueled 172 at sea level, loaded up with 4 Midcap 8’s, on One mag, with the Carb Heat on, taking off uphill with a tailwind. In August at 2500 msl. Sorry going to have to call BS on this. Complete BS I’m afraid. Normally aspirated piston engines are absolutely fine in the west. Know what you’re doing. Respect density altitude. Go get your license OP. I was using hyperbole Cpt. Spectrum. You will note in my other post that I recommended the Skylane.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: This guy completely full of shit (on experimentals/light sports) and associated costs, being able to do the work yourself, etc?? From the very little digging I did tonight it seems like these MOSAIC rule changes are pretty significant for allowing more plane options and more capabilities for Sport pilots. Still only one passenger though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAOEO6ngO50Thanks! The Pseudo-Virtual A&P certificate is very compelling. OTOH, shaving pennies and learning to do your own MX, while simultaneously learning do your own flying, sounds like a recipe for disaster. We live in a fake Nerfy world, but Aviation is still oddly unforgiving. Initially, you said you were interested in carrying a passenger and a dog. What kind of Dog? What weight of pax and bags? What distance? These questions have to be answered first. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 5:26:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Emt1581]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: The Pseudo-Virtual A&P certificate is very compelling. OTOH, shaving pennies and learning to do your own MX, while simultaneously learning do your own flying, sounds like a recipe for disaster. We live in a fake Nerfy world, but Aviation is still oddly unforgiving. Initially, you said you were interested in carrying a passenger and a dog. What kind of Dog? What weight of pax and bags? What distance? These questions have to be answered first. 12lb toy fox terrier. And I packed a week's worth of clothes and gear in a standard backpack going to FL. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 5:39:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: maslin02]
[#37]
I bought a bike from a guy in Bend. Normal-ish house on a normal street.
Said "come this way it's in the hanger"  Sure enough, bikes, kayaks, and a plane or 3. The whole neighborhood has hangers and backs up to an airstrip, right in the middle of town. Sounds attainable to me. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 5:47:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maslin02: I bought a bike from a guy in Bend, normal-ish house, on a normal street. Said "come this way it's in the hanger" Sure enough, bikes, kayaks, and a plane or 3. The whole neighborhood has hangers and backs up to an airstrip, right in the middle of town. Sounds attainable to me. There’s a place like that around here. My CFI and I landed there one day to take a little break. After landing we taxied to his friends house. Kinda weird taxiing a plane down neighborhood streets. “Hey watch your wingtip. Don’t hit that street sign” that was funny. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 6:05:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: If it's kept on my property, how would anyone know what I'm doing to it? Not saying I wouldn't learn or hire someone....just asking. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff: If you build your own plane you are able to do your own maintenance. Otherwise you'll need an A&P mechanic to sign off on work. If it's kept on my property, how would anyone know what I'm doing to it? Not saying I wouldn't learn or hire someone....just asking. If you built the plane, you can be issued a repairman certificate that allows you to perform maintenance on THAT plane. Not someone else's plane that is the same model. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 6:09:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gingerbreadman: Undocumented maintenance is a huge no-no. If you built the plane, you can be issued a repairman certificate that allows you to perform maintenance on THAT plane. Not someone else's plane that is the same model. Sounds similar to 80%'s and reloading but also makes the ATF seem generous, warm, and fuzzy. Then again you're handling a small missed so I can understand it somewhat. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 5:16:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights: The Pseudo-Virtual A&P certificate is very compelling. OTOH, shaving pennies and learning to do your own MX, while simultaneously learning do your own flying, sounds like a recipe for disaster. We live in a fake Nerfy world, but Aviation is still oddly unforgiving. Initially, you said you were interested in carrying a passenger and a dog. What kind of Dog? What weight of pax and bags? What distance? These questions have to be answered first. Yeah.... one at a time would be better. Get PPL, fly around. Get proficient. When it comes time for the 100hr or annual inspections, ask the A&P/IA if you can do the stuff that a PPL is allowed to do, and ask them to show you what they are doing. Ask questions. Remove panels. When you get time/money, take a class to get your A&P. For me, since I am already an A&P with experience maintaining 172s, SR-20s, and PA-44s, I would get my PPL and buy (or go into a partnership on) a 172 or 182 instead of having to learn a whole new plane... although I would not close the door to a different plane if the circumstances warranted it. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 6:18:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Get a LSA plane…go to Blue Ridge Comminity college and get your LSRM certificate and you don’t need a A&P
If your a vet you can get the school for around $4000 and then you can work on LSA (yours or others) for $ if you want …you can do everthing a A&P can do and pretty much evertthing an AI can on certified airplanes just on LSAs Then come to Sebring and take the ROTAX class and get certified by rotax (2500 if I remember right ) and your good |
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