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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:34:45 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:35:24 PM EDT
[#2]
You look at older cars all wrong. It's not about the speed but about how few of them there are out there and how different they are/cool they look. You can go to any parking lot in America today and find numerous of the same newer style vehicles within a stone's throw of each other. Classic cars are in a league of their own and always will be. That's why they still have a following. Kind of the same with older guns. Sure the newer ones can do more but they don't have that same old world class charm/feel. Also, they were a lot easier to work on.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:35:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are right, they do not make them like they used to. They make them better. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:36:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you not see the point? Guess not. None of your new favorite cars will survive. The aftermarket "industry" will not exist to keep any of them going. The factories will not support them past their minimum commitment, as it is vastly in their best interests to get all of their old cars off the roads. Who do you think is going to keep all the computer cars going? The Corvette is a great example that even with the most robust aftermarket of any car the electronics are still going to kill it. Mechanical parts are cheap. Software and electronics hardware for highly specialized applications such as all the different model cars, are not. Modern cars are the walking dead. You can believe that or not, but we are into the time frame now where it is beginning to happen and it's easy to see. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Corvette is a low volume car predominantly sold to old men that don't drive them much. Sales are well under 30k units most years. There's not nearly as much demand/money for some of those parts as you might think. In situations where the demand exists, the industry will find a solution. Do you not see the point? Guess not. None of your new favorite cars will survive. The aftermarket "industry" will not exist to keep any of them going. The factories will not support them past their minimum commitment, as it is vastly in their best interests to get all of their old cars off the roads. Who do you think is going to keep all the computer cars going? The Corvette is a great example that even with the most robust aftermarket of any car the electronics are still going to kill it. Mechanical parts are cheap. Software and electronics hardware for highly specialized applications such as all the different model cars, are not. Modern cars are the walking dead. You can believe that or not, but we are into the time frame now where it is beginning to happen and it's easy to see. If meaningful demand exists, the industry will meet that demand. A certain subset of the car community has talked about electronics and computers as if it's untouchable voodoo magic ever since the earliest EFI, electric fuel pumps, and other such systems were introduced. Decades have gone by, and that automotive apocalypse has yet to hit. The aftermarket industry makes upgraded computer modules for some vehicles, and they even make some for models that never had computers to begin with. There's no reason to expect this to change. PS: The Corvette aftermarket is a small fish compared to Big 3 trucks, Jeeps, Toyota and Nissan 4x4s, muscle cars, and most likely a good subset of the Japanese and European import tuner cars. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:37:35 PM EDT
[#5]
The best thing about driving a '73 'cuda was it was 1976.
 Sex and drugs and rock-n-roll. 
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:39:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Nostalgia is the biggest liar you will ever meet. I hear boomer car guys go on and on about how fast their muscle car was and how modern cars are shit. They are completely delusional, modern 4 cylinders make equal or more power than your giant v8s made. Modern cars don't need a complete tear down and rebuild every 50k miles like the cars of yesteryear. Line any of those old muscle cars up next to a modern Mustang or Charger, it's night and day. 14 seconds used to be a fast qt mile, guys are daily driving cars that are running low 8's. Yes the modern car is harder for people to work on themselves but if you're not a complete dumbass it is doable. Old cars are cool but lets be honest about how great they really were. *edit* Before anybody starts with dyno numbers, those old school numbers are complete horseshit and has been proven time and time again. Put them on the dyno, yall were lied to about what those cars made. RE: Dyno numbers - yeah they lied... to the downside!: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/testing-4-2-8how-much-horsepower-ford-428-cobra-jet-really-make/ 55 years of transmission and suspension development is a thing. So is the improvement from bias ply tires to radials. Also, who gives a fuck that your Camry is faster than my 69 Mustang? Literally nobody is walking across the street to talk to you about your shitbox. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I'm not a boomer. Modern cars ARE shit. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:41:38 PM EDT
[#7]
There once was a time that rebuilt 60s car was the best by almost every measure.
Those times are past. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:41:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Awesome OP. No one has ever thought up this tired discussion thread starter before, with its false narrative that enthusiasts think old cars were better/faster/etc.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:42:01 PM EDT
[#9]
These are cars from my childhood that I thought were the coolest thing going. They turned heads then and turn heads now, I have them for nostalgic purposes. They are for cruising not comfort.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:44:22 PM EDT
[#10]
I would love to see the oils of the 60-70's be brought back today and see how long a modern engine last.
I am not saying performance isn't better but somethings have other factors that determine longevity than the engineers building the engines. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:44:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, who gives a fuck that your Camry is faster than my 69 Mustang? Literally nobody is walking across the street to talk to you about your shitbox. Yep. Nobody breaks their neck staring at my 2012 toyota. They are all the time taking pictures of and trying to talk to me when I'm in my old cars. About the one they used to have or whatever. My wife really didn't get it at first. Then I came home with my 69 t-bird with miles of that leather interior. The smell of the interior of that car instantly transported her and her mom back decades. Nobody on the planet will ever be nostalgic over a 2012 toyota compact car with cloth seats. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:44:49 PM EDT
[#12]
 ETA: Fuckin beat like a rented mule. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:45:09 PM EDT
[#13]
I feel like old cars are not about what you think they are. Its about the driving experience.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:45:25 PM EDT
[#14]
We are a form over function peoples
until it comes to cars.... then we prefer looks |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:46:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a ‘69 Camaro. It’s a base model V8 with a 327 2 barrel carb. It was my grandmothers. It’s quite possibly the slowest car I’ve ever owned and driven. User name checks out. In for list of current production 8 second DD's. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:46:23 PM EDT
[#16]
I can't blame them. I'd love to have an S2000 and MR2 Spyder in my driveway. Neither have much horsepower.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:46:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty good analogy right there Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is like comparing a P-51 to a F-4 to a F-22. All are cool, all had their time. A P-51 is still awesome to this day, just like a lot of the cars from 65'-73'. Great analogy. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:47:10 PM EDT
[#18]
I don't own old cars for the performance. I own them like I own old rifles. History and the experience. Even a performance car from 20 years ago pales in comparison to what we have now. That doesn't meant thos cars are trash. Time marches on and things change. So far it's been better performance. At some point that might change. The muscle cars of the 60s to earl 70s held up because of the malaise of the 70s and 80s. You could still blow the doors off those newer cars except for a handful of models. It wasn't until the 90s that you saw the performance really ramp up again with cars that could fairly easily turn 13.x times at the drag strip, but also handle and brake.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:48:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Old cars really kinda sucked outside of looking and sounding cool. Basic suspensions, no traction control or ABS, shit gas milage, if it was high enough “performance” (LOL) it needed tuned up whenever the seasons changed, like 87 miles between oil changes, nothing lasted… shit fell apart and needed major overhaul/repairs/maintenance from like 70,000-100,000mi, poor crash survivability … 87% of classic cars are terrible vehicles by any modern standard. But hey, they looked and sounded cooler. Very much this. The fact that a modern day Camry or Accord will dust a 70’s muscle car in every performance metric should tell you that. Not to mention the safety, efficiency and longevity. To me resto-mods are cooler because you get the best of both worlds. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:51:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Still most days I wish I could work a modern rendition of late 70s cars.
Like a 1978 Lincoln but made with modern robots and materials Would make my job a hell of alot easier. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:51:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Thats me but on the Level.
My 1988 Mustang GT was modded well back then and about the fastest car in my hometown in the day. Fast forward to today and my recently acquired 1987 Foxbody GT while fun, gets destroyed by about every single car currently on the road. is what it is |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:51:44 PM EDT
[#22]
My buddy says:
"Not entirely true. Muscle cars were never designed to brake or corner, just go fast in a straight line, stop light to stop light. The top end high compression big blocks with big carburetors, tuned & cammed for 100+ octane pump gas and headers were very fast, especially with some tire and suspension tuning. The reason they needed tear downs and inspections around 50k is the loose piston clearances necessary to run high compression and not be overly expensive. Remember these were never intended to be commuter cars." |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:52:50 PM EDT
[#23]
OP sounds angry.
There have been awesome vehicles produced during every decade of my existence. Small displacement commuter vehicles (the comparison point always chosen by angry internet ranters) have also been pretty lame for as long as I have been alive, regardless of improvements. Delusion is as delusion does, perhaps. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:53:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Illinois hipsters are worse than Illinois nazis.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:54:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good thing OP left old trucks out of rant. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/376498/IMG_4990_jpeg-3214087.JPG  @HK_FTW That's an I beam front suspension. How did you get it low without messing up the camber? I had a 70 so that series of Fords has a soft spot in my heart. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 12:56:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stupid people think that classic cars are about nostalgia. I'm not a boomer. When I had a 1966 charger, I made friends wherever I went, and it was mostly young kids coming up asking about the car. On another matter, why does every pissed off malcontent posting at this forum insist on including the word "boomer" in their posts? Weren't you people taught to respect your elders? What the hell is wrong with you? Maybe this is why your kids don't respect you, ridicule you behind your back, if they even bother, speak to you. You probably think you're edgy and cool, but you're just a Democrat stooge. In case you haven't noticed, the Democratic Party holds onto power by dividing the country into groups and then making them hate each other. It isn't just ivy league idiots hating Jews. It's gun, toting, so-called conservatives, who should know better, Convincing themselves that "boomers" are the cause of all of their problems. What a fucking joke. Your parents must be so embarrassed. your kids must be so ashamed. Maybe conservative boomers ought to stop berating millennials every chance they get then lmao. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:02:21 PM EDT
[#27]
What is the point of a thread like this other than to call other people retards unprovoked?
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:03:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If meaningful demand exists, the industry will meet that demand. A certain subset of the car community has talked about electronics and computers as if it's untouchable voodoo magic ever since the earliest EFI, electric fuel pumps, and other such systems were introduced. Decades have gone by, and that automotive apocalypse has yet to hit. The aftermarket industry makes upgraded computer modules for some vehicles, and they even make some for models that never had computers to begin with. There's no reason to expect this to change. PS: The Corvette aftermarket is a small fish compared to Big 3 trucks, Jeeps, Toyota and Nissan 4x4s, muscle cars, and most likely a good subset of the Japanese and European import tuner cars. Bro dozer lift kits and exhausts are a long way from proprietary flat screens, circuit boards and manufacturer copyrighted software that will not be released or licensed to the aftermarket. Walking dead. But continue on with your rant. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:04:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had an on again off again relationship with a Kawasaki 750 2-stroke I swore was actually trying to kill me Looking back, it pulled a 12-second quarter mile. One of the slower bikes I've ever owned God I love 2-stroke street bikes. One of my biggest regrets was selling my built RD350….. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:08:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My buddy says: "Not entirely true. Muscle cars were never designed to brake or corner, just go fast in a straight line, stop light to stop light. The top end high compression big blocks with big carburetors, tuned & cammed for 100+ octane pump gas and headers were very fast, especially with some tire and suspension tuning. The reason they needed tear downs and inspections around 50k is the loose piston clearances necessary to run high compression and not be overly expensive. Remember these were never intended to be commuter cars."  1965 Pontiac GTO Ad I guess "your buddy" never heard of Trans Am either?  |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:09:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Well this thread has been very enlightening.
I can now see why lead was banned from gasoline. 
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:09:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear the Honda Civic crowd going on about how their 4 cyl. makes "more (horse)power" and how their economy car is faster in the first 60'. I'm thinking they are ignorant about torque...and probably cars in general. Not about torque, it’s about weight. Laugh all you want about 4 cylinder Hondas, just keep in there are 300+ hp naturally aspirated civics running around that weigh less than 2000lbs… those cars will outrun a lot of cars you wouldn’t expect. That said, I think FWD sucks. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:10:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats me but on the Level. My 1988 Mustang GT was modded well back then and about the fastest car in my hometown in the day. Fast forward to today and my recently acquired 1987 Foxbody GT while fun, gets destroyed by about every single car currently on the road. is what it is Big fan of the foxbody Mustang, I had a 90 and now my son has an 89. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:10:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @HK_FTW That's an I beam front suspension. How did you get it low without messing up the camber? I had a 70 so that series of Fords has a soft spot in my heart. The whole suspension has been replaced with a QA1 system. Torque arm rear and a arms up front riding on coil overs. The kit is designed for road racing. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:14:51 PM EDT
[#35]
I sold this in 2022 after having it 34 years. It was great in my 20's but like driving an oven in my mid 50's. It was originally a 375hp 396 but I put a 427 in it. Manual steering, 4 speed and no AC. Originally it probably was around 375 horses at the crank. All the new cars are power at the wheels. My wife's Genesis G70 would run circles around it. I honestly never thought I would get rid of my Chevelle but I got two motorcycles now
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:15:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classic cars have the designs that people love. The best rebuilds are when someone takes a classic body and installs all new internals so its a much more modern vehicle. Revology does this with their Mustangs, downside is the cost unfortunately. https://revologycars.com/car/1968-shelby-gt500kr-convertible/ https://revologycars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/66mustang_22_fastback_parked_in_front_of_vickers_metal_works-2.webp WOW, that is a beautiful ride! 
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:15:54 PM EDT
[#37]
The thing with old vehicles is that everything sucked, so you don’t need to have the same amount of speed to get the same thrill. Point in case, going 150 + on a modern sport bike is a similar feeling I get when doing the ‘ton’ on my Norton Commando. Actually, 100+ on the Norton is a little more thrilling.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:16:30 PM EDT
[#38]
In 40 years no one is going to be combing the swap meets looking for parts to restore a Camry. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:17:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cars are for getting from A to B Enjoy your Prius, then. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:20:06 PM EDT
[#40]
2022/23 was peak muscle car:
- Challenger Hellcats, Hellcat Redyes and Demon 170 - GT-500 - Camaro ZL-1 LE All of the above are gone. Wiped out by Biden and Leftist policies. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:20:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Fuck your renter shit box.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:20:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/505993/5aa2c7eeb8bd1b9c2d23ee4d478b38f4_jpg-3214120.JPG But seriously, old cars aren't necessarily cool due to horsepower/quarter mile/speed. They're cool because you don't see them day in and day out, they have a very cerebral sight/sound/smell (loads of raw unburnt fuel. Yummy!) and it's just a fun novelty. Sorry your husband won't let you get one OP. I highly doubt you're having as much fun in your Camry as I am rowing gears in this. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/505993/IMG_20230919_112141373_jpg-3214126.JPG   |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:20:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sold this in 2022 after having it 34 years. It was great in my 20's but like driving an oven in my mid 50's. It was originally a 375hp 396 but I put a 427 in it. Manual steering, 4 speed and no AC. Originally it probably was around 375 horses at the crank. All the new cars are power at the wheels. My wife's Genesis G70 would run circles around it. I honestly never thought I would get rid of my Chevelle but I got two motorcycles now https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102369/IMG_20220518_111411_867_jpg-3214177.JPG In a few years you'll be one of those guys at a car gathering lamenting the one you let go. 
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:23:10 PM EDT
[#44]
I love them all, old and new. But I'm just here to chime in that yeah, current modern state of the art ICE vehicles are a real miracle to behold. Just amazing. We all bitch 24/7 about how bad it is, but I thank God I got to live to see and experience current state of the art ICE vehicles that were designed with performance in mind.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:23:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love to see the oils of the 60-70's be brought back today and see how long a modern engine last. I am not saying performance isn't better but somethings have other factors that determine longevity than the engineers building the engines. Old engines built with modern materials and modern machining processes will last MUCH longer than the original stuff. Original engines were assembled by selective fit of many of the parts, mostly due to process variability in the machining of the engine components. Modern low tension rings, and modern machining processes would eliminate many of those durability issues seen in engines of old. Using those features in an old engine would allow the old stuff to have engine durability/reliability levels that match that of modern engines. Add in the modern oils, and the difference between old/new engines would be negligible. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:27:28 PM EDT
[#46]
A set of good sway bars, bushings, springs, shocks, tires and brakes (like a modern car has stock) made a massive improvement in my 70 Chevelle. Huge.
My f150 has 400hp/500tq bone stock. It has more power than I'll ever need in a pickup. It's pretty quick sometimes. It also sounds like a damn pinball machine, it beeps and chimes and yells at me about everything. My CRX makes 100hp if it's lucky. It's my favorite to drive. It just wants to be a good car. And it is. ETA: friggen idiots going on about "Honda Civic guys"....when's the last time you saw an actual "Fast n' Furious" import rolling around? That movie came out 25 years ago! Nobody does crap with Honda Civics anymore. Some old guy asked me two days ago how I had historic plates on my CRX...."this car's too new for those, you can't have them on that!" Buddy....this car is 35 years old. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:28:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your "buddy" is a fucking idiot.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJNrsPBPHsI guess "your buddy" never heard of Trans Am either? https://speedtour.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/article-trans-am-05.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My buddy says: "Not entirely true. Muscle cars were never designed to brake or corner, just go fast in a straight line, stop light to stop light. The top end high compression big blocks with big carburetors, tuned & cammed for 100+ octane pump gas and headers were very fast, especially with some tire and suspension tuning. The reason they needed tear downs and inspections around 50k is the loose piston clearances necessary to run high compression and not be overly expensive. Remember these were never intended to be commuter cars." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJNrsPBPHsI guess "your buddy" never heard of Trans Am either? https://speedtour.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/article-trans-am-05.jpg My buddy replies: "I don't mean the standard pony or muscle cars, but the top end performance versions. How many people did you know of or see commuting in a street tuned 426 4 speed Sunbird?" |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:28:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look no further than quarter mile times. 13 sec was "very fast" back in the "muscle car" days. The stock Demon is banned from NHRA events because it's too fast (sub 10 seconds). Fucking Grand Cherokee Trackhawk or Ram TRX will crush an old Camaro/Mustang/Chevelle/Corvette. You left out the old Hemi cars because the new Camaros and Mustangs toast those. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:33:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @HK_FTW That's an I beam front suspension. How did you get it low without messing up the camber? I had a 70 so that series of Fords has a soft spot in my heart. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:35:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My buddy replies: "I don't mean the standard pony or muscle cars, but the top end performance versions. How many people did you know of or see commuting in a street tuned 426 4 speed Sunbird?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My buddy says: "Not entirely true. Muscle cars were never designed to brake or corner, just go fast in a straight line, stop light to stop light. The top end high compression big blocks with big carburetors, tuned & cammed for 100+ octane pump gas and headers were very fast, especially with some tire and suspension tuning. The reason they needed tear downs and inspections around 50k is the loose piston clearances necessary to run high compression and not be overly expensive. Remember these were never intended to be commuter cars." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJNrsPBPHsI guess "your buddy" never heard of Trans Am either? https://speedtour.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/article-trans-am-05.jpg My buddy replies: "I don't mean the standard pony or muscle cars, but the top end performance versions. How many people did you know of or see commuting in a street tuned 426 4 speed Sunbird?"  the high end ones of which were almost never produced? Yeah ok lets start cherry picking our cars now with blanket statements. You and your buddy lol Good grief. |
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