I saw a picture in a book several years ago of the Pearl Harbor battleships' superstructres that were cut off and piled in an out of the way place in Hawaii.  This picture was supposedly taken in the 80's or 90's.  Anyone heard of and know where this is at?  Is it still there?  If so, how could I see it?

I'm not sure but the Arizona is falling apart badly

Quoted: I'm not sure but the Arizona is falling apart badly

Yeah, some think the fuel tanks are going to collapse in the not too distant future so they are trying to decide whether to let it happen and contain the spill or pump the fuel out now.  Vets and others say leave it alone and let it happen because it is a war grave.  Environmentalists say pump it out but do so with a minimum of disruption to the ship.

All the battleships and for that matter all ships sunk at Pearl were raised and used in the war. Except the
Arizona and one ship that was obsolete and was run aground when it began to sink. it was cut up and used. The guy in charge also said the Arizona could have been raised but had orders not to due to the amont of people still traped.The structure is still there but is on a restricted part of the base

I saw it close up and personal this November. Its in really bad shape as is the memorial.  The memorial itself is going to need to be fixed up.

The Mighty Mo next door also looked like shit.  Starting to rust pretty badly.  There is nothing like hundreds of crewmen maintaining a ship everyday.  They have volunteers and some hired people but it looks like they are losing the battle.  I doubt they could ever refit her to go to sea again.  

Quoted: All the battleships and for that matter all ships sunk at Pearl were raised and used in the war. Except the Arizona and one ship that was obsolete and was run aground when it began to sink. it was cut up and used. The guy in charge also said the Arizona could have been raised but had orders not to due to the amont of people still traped.The structure is still there but is on a restricted part of the base

Oklahoma was raised in 1943 but was not rebuilt.  The whole port side was opened up by torpedoes which caused her to capsize.  She also had vertical triple expansion engines which were obsolete by that time.  She'd already spent a year and a half underwater and had major damage so it was not cost effective to rebuild her by that point in the war.  They stripped the guns and superstructure and sold her for scrap after the war.  She sank while being towed back to California in 1947.  As a side note, some of her guns were used to regun other battleships that used 14" guns.

The beached ship was Oklahoma's sister ship, Nevada.  She was raised, rebuilt and fought at Normandy and in the Pacific theaters.  I believe she was sunk as a target after the war.  

From the books I've read, the Arizona had no chance of being raised.  The forward magazine had detonated and caused massive damage forward.  The damage was so intense, it was deemed not worth the effort to raise.  They probably could have rebuilt the rear portion of the ship like they did the Shaw, but it was already 25 years old or so.  Plus, it was the tomb of over 1000 men.

One other ship was left in place as well.  Utah was a target ship the Japanese mistook for an aircraft carrier, as she was tied up in a carrier berth.  The Navy tried to right and raise her, but the lines broke, I believe, and they decided to leave her in place.  She was older than the Oklahoma so she had very little military value at that point.  There are still something like 50 sailors still entombed on her.

Most of the superstructure of the Arizona that was left protruding from the water was cut away and hauled around the corner of the row and dumped behind some trees. I think it is still over there. Most people don't know its there or, for the ones who do, don't know what it was.

Quoted: Most of the superstructure of the Arizona that was left protruding from the water was cut away and hauled around the corner of the row and dumped behind some trees. I think it is still over there. Most people don't know its there or, for the ones who do, don't know what it was.

That's what I was looking for!  Is it just the Arizona's superstructure or is the Oklahoma's there too?  Any way to get over and take a look at it?

The EPA can't touch the Arizona, the Federal Law designating her a War Grave makes her absolutely off-limits.  It would take an act of Congress to do and that isn't going to happen.

Another reason the AZ was not raised was that there was a lot of unexploded ordnance strewn around the wreck and some of the divers working on salvage during the war were killed.

GunLvr

Quoted: Quoted: All the battleships and for that matter all ships sunk at Pearl were raised and used in the war. Except the Arizona and one ship that was obsolete and was run aground when it began to sink. it was cut up and used. The guy in charge also said the Arizona could have been raised but had orders not to due to the amont of people still traped.The structure is still there but is on a restricted part of the base Oklahoma was raised in 1943 but was not rebuilt.  The whole port side was opened up by torpedoes which caused her to capsize.  She also had vertical triple expansion engines which were obsolete by that time.  She'd already spent a year and a half underwater and had major damage so it was not cost effective to rebuild her by that point in the war.  They stripped the guns and superstructure and sold her for scrap after the war.  She sank while being towed back to California in 1947.  As a side note, some of her guns were used to regun other battleships that used 14" guns. The beached ship was Oklahoma's sister ship, Nevada.  She was raised, rebuilt and fought at Normandy and in the Pacific theaters.  I believe she was sunk as a target after the war.   From the books I've read, the Arizona had no chance of being raised.  The forward magazine had detonated and caused massive damage forward.  The damage was so intense, it was deemed not worth the effort to raise.  They probably could have rebuilt the rear portion of the ship like they did the Shaw, but it was already 25 years old or so.  Plus, it was the tomb of over 1000 men. One other ship was left in place as well.  Utah was a target ship the Japanese mistook for an aircraft carrier, as she was tied up in a carrier berth.  The Navy tried to right and raise her, but the lines broke, I believe, and they decided to leave her in place.  She was older than the Oklahoma so she had very little military value at that point.  There are still something like 50 sailors still entombed on her.

i think your right the one that ran aground the Nevada was going to sink in the channel? I thought there was only one obsolete ship. the book I bought at Pearl was called "Into the Darkness" I believe and it was written by the guy in charge of the Diving team. I would quote hi name but I have loaned the book out and I'm not 100% shure.

Lots of info here.

www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/ph-salv.htm

Parts of the Arizona superstructure, as well as other parts removed from other BBs damaged/sunk were placed on Ford Island The island is still part of the Navy base (as opposed to being returned to public use or assigned to the US Park Svc) and that the location of the scrap is still restricted and access to the site is not allowed, at least it was last I knew, except to Master Chiefs (with or without TV crews).

I thought the Captain of the Nevada ran her aground after trying to make it out of the harbor, realizing it was impossible, and not wanting to block in the harbor when she sank.  

Quoted: I thought the Captain of the Nevada ran her aground after trying to make it out of the harbor, realizing it was impossible, and not wanting to block in the harbor when she sank.

Yup.  When the Japanese saw her moving toward the open sea, they tried to sink her in the channel.  That would have made Pearl Harbor useless until she could be refloated.  So, her captain beached her.  Good move on his part.  

Quoted: One other ship was left in place as well.  Utah was a target ship the Japanese mistook for an aircraft carrier, as she was tied up in a carrier berth.  The Navy tried to right and raise her, but the lines broke, I believe, and they decided to leave her in place.  She was older than the Oklahoma so she had very little military value at that point.  There are still something like 50 sailors still entombed on her.

I had read in a Naval publication, a CPO had the cremated remains of his daughter onboard for some reason. He was one of the 50 killed.

The Utah, largest RC ship ever used.

A friend I go shooting with went to see the AZ on his honeymoon a few years ago. His uncle is buried aboard the AZ. He said it was really soemthing to see.
I would love to go to Hawaii once just to see the memorial.

http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&X=1907&Y=20450&Z=18&W=1

You guys have to see this one.  Its a Iowa class ship from 1991.  It must have taken part in Desert Storm. I tried to look up Pearl Harbor for an aerial view to find the superstructure but only TOPO maps are available. Most like due to the fact its an operational base.

Quoted: Quoted: I thought the Captain of the Nevada ran her aground after trying to make it out of the harbor, realizing it was impossible, and not wanting to block in the harbor when she sank.   Yup.  When the Japanese saw her moving toward the open sea, they tried to sink her in the channel.  That would have made Pearl Harbor useless until she could be refloated.  So, her captain beached her.  Good move on his part.

That isn't quite correct. The ranking officer onboard was a LCDR. He was the Command Duty Officer that day. He got the ship underway with the duty section and the sailors who happened to be onboard. They were following orders to sortie, standard response to an attack. When port operations saw she might be sunk in the channel they radioed her and sent tugs, yes they got tugs underway, to beach her.

I've had the pleasure of meeting the LCDR in question. He spoke to my NROTC unit. It's quite a story.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought the Captain of the Nevada ran her aground after trying to make it out of the harbor, realizing it was impossible, and not wanting to block in the harbor when she sank.   Yup.  When the Japanese saw her moving toward the open sea, they tried to sink her in the channel.  That would have made Pearl Harbor useless until she could be refloated.  So, her captain beached her.  Good move on his part.   That isn't quite correct. The ranking officer onboard was a LCDR. He was the Command Duty Officer that day. He got the ship underway with the duty section and the sailors who happened to be onboard. They were following orders to sortie, standard response to an attack. When port operations saw she might be sunk in the channel they radioed her and sent tugs, yes they got tugs underway, to beach her. I've had the pleasure of meeting the LCDR in question. He spoke to my NROTC unit. It's quite a story.

Cool, thanks for the correction.  I always like hearing stories from the vets.  Most times, they like talking to me about it because I understand what they're saying.  Before my wife's uncle died, he and I liked to talk with one another.  I was the only one who really had an interest in what he was saying so he liked it when I visited.  He was in the 96th Div in the Pacific and lost a leg on Okinawa.  He had some pretty good storied.  He was quite surprised when he was describing how he was in the Philipines and the officers told them to turn around and dig in facing the sea because they thought the Japs were going to come in behind them.  I told him about the Gambier Bay and how her little fleet sacrificed themselves to hold off the Japs while the fleet carriers were off chasing Ozawa in the Great Mariana's Turkey Shoot.  He said " You know about that?".  He was quite shocked.  After that, he loved talking to me about his experiences.  It never upset him to talk about it to my knowledge, though he did still have nightmares about it sometimes.  

When he died, I'd planned on wearing my Class A's to his funeral, but the family said he didn't want any military funeral or anything.  So, I didn't.  But, I did give him a final salute.  

Quoted: The beached ship was Oklahoma's sister ship, Nevada.  She was raised, rebuilt and fought at Normandy and in the Pacific theaters.  I believe she was sunk as a target after the war.

Your memory is good.  I recall Nevada being a part of Operation Crossroads in 1946 (shots Able and Baker, the 4th and 5th nuclear weapons detonated respectively).  Nevada survived and was sunk off Pearl Harbor, July 1948.

More:  www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq76-5.htm

Merlin

There is a hatch that was cut off of the Arizona (while they were still trying to get survivors out) that sits in the Nimitz museum in Fredericksburg, Texas.

I was in Hawaii in 1995 with the Marine Corps, and was able to visit Pearl. We took the ferry out to the Arizona memorial and it is a very somber place. The rainbow sheen on the water from the seeping oil is pretty incredible....That struck me, as well as the lower left corner of the memorial wall with all the names of the dead inscribed (it's a small section seperated for the Marine Corps KIA on December 7th, 1941).

This morning on the History Channel they said Pearl Harbor survivors are allowed to view the portion of the Arizona's superstructure that was removed in 1961 when they built the monument and survivors are also allowed to take a little piece of it home with them.

Quoted: Quoted: Most of the superstructure of the Arizona that was left protruding from the water was cut away and hauled around the corner of the row and dumped behind some trees. I think it is still over there. Most people don't know its there or, for the ones who do, don't know what it was. That's what I was looking for!  Is it just the Arizona's superstructure or is the Oklahoma's there too?  Any way to get over and take a look at it?

I don't know for sure. I think it is just from the USS Arizona. I just remember a big pile of old metal lying there. It is hidden from view so most don't know its over there. There isn't anything to say what it is. Most people don't have access to it, and for those who do, there is nothing to indicate the origin of the rusting heaps of metal.

If you look at the upper corner of Ford Island in this photo, the area that I am speaking of is the only dark green section of vegtation really left there. It is the 1-2 o'clock position of the island in this photo.



I did find this piece on the salvage work:

Salvage Of all the ships lost or damaged at Pearl Harbor, the USS ARIZONA offered the most pathetic sight. Despite the crumpled superstructure and main decks awash, divers began exploring the wreckage of the ship within a week. It was soon discovered that the after part of the ship from the break in the deck to the stern was relatively intact. Removal of safes, valuables and documents of a sensitive nature had begun by early 1942. Assessment dives continued to evaluate the feasibility of raising the ARIZONA. Salvage officers initially considered building a cofferdam around the vessel's perimeter, thus sealing the ship off from the harbor to allow the pumping of water from interior spaces. Examination of the harbor's coral bottom concluded that it was too porous and would not allow this process. Throughout 1942 and 1943, examination dives continued inside and outside the ship. Meanwhile, ordnance divers began to remove ammunition and projectiles in May 1942. Eventually guns, machinery and other equipment were removed for use on other ships or stations. The divers found the interior of the ARIZONA had been severely damaged by the explosion of the forward magazines. Evidence of its power had shown that the explosion had vented through the deck forward of turret No. I causing a separation of the bow and the rest of the ship. Divers found further that the sides of the bow had been blown outward almost to a horizontal position. Closer examination of the exterior hull was assisted by jetting away mud with high pressure hoses. When divers attempted to move forward into the interior of the vessel, they found that the main and second decks were blocked with wreckage forward of frame 76. The furthest divers could move toward the bow of the ship was on the third deck to frame 66, where the second deck sloped into the third deck. Hatches that had once led to the interior of the ship from various decks were now twisted and distorted. Captain Homer Wallin and his staff found that gun turrets No. I and 2, the conning tower and uptakes had fallen 20-28 feet indicating a collapse of the supporting structure. On May 5, 1942, the toppled foremast of the ARIZONA was cut away and removed. The mainmast was taken away by August 23. Other features removed were the stern aircraft crane (December 23) and the conning tower (December 30). The Navy decided that the Army would receive gun turrets No. 3 and 4 for use as coastal defense guns. Two sites were selected: one at Mokapu Head (Kaneohe) known as Battery Pennsylvania and the second at an area known today as Electric Hill (HEI generating plant) on the western shore of Oahu, up the slopes of the Wianae Mountains. Only Battery Pennsylvania was completed. A test firing took place four days before the surrender of Japan. Today both sites are abandoned; the guns were removed and cut up for scrap shortly after the war ended. One question still haunts visitors to the Arizona Memorial even to this day. Why were the dead not removed? Initially, about 105 bodies were removed but because the ship was never raised, the remainder could not. The priority at that time was salvage of ships that could be repaired -- the ARIZONA was not in that category. As a result, the bodies deteriorated to the point of not being identifiable. Even as late as 1947, requests were made in regard to removal of the dead, but rejected. They are considered buried at sea by the US Navy. In 1961 the USS ARIZONA was altered once more. In order to place the present memorial over the ship, a section of the boat deck that rested over the galley amidships was cut away. Initially this had been the area of a flag and platform for ceremonies and visits to the site from 1950-1960. This portion of the ARIZONA was removed to Waipio Point where it remains today.

dizzy.library.arizona.edu/images/USS_Arizona/nps_survey/az_hist.htm

Another little known fact is that USS Arizona survivors are still being buried ON THE ship.

USS Arizona Interments Command Master Chief Luis R. Cruz and Force Master Chief Michael Banko present flags to David and Tony Czarnecki, the sons of Chief Machinist's Mate Anthony Francis Czarnecki, during a burial at sea ceremony aboard the USS Arizona Memorial, September 30, 2004. Czarnecki and his brother Stanley both served aboard the battleship USS Arizona (BB-39). Czarnecki's brother was killed in the attack and Czarnecki's last wish was to be returned to USS Arizona to be with his brother and shipmates upon his passing. U.S. Navy photo 040930-N-4995T-103 by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Victoria A. Tullock. Since the early 1980s, the cremated remains of men who served aboard USS Arizona have been deposited at the USS Arizona Memorial. Pearl Harbor survivors -- those men who were formally assigned to the ship on December 7, 1941 -- may have their ashes entombed within the ship, while other USS Arizona veterans may have their ashes scattered on the water directly over the vessel.

I should be back there around either April or September. I will see what other information I can find out.

Laid down by New York Naval Ship Yard, March 16, 1914.
Launched June 19, 1915.
Commissioned October 17, 1916.
Decommissioned (War Loss).
Stricken December 1, 1942.

Arizona was sunk in the 7 December 1941 Japanese air raid. Her hull was left where she sank, after removal of most of her superstructure and salvage of her after 14" gun turrets and other guns.

I am almost certain that after the new bridge was built to Ford Island, the new USS Missouri home and the recent construction on Ford Island that the remains of the USS Arizona are visable from either the boat ride to the USS Airzona Memorial or else from the flight deck of a Nimitz class aircraft carrier.



















3. Why was the Arizona not salvaged after the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Of all the ships lost or damaged at Pearl Harbor, the USS Arizona offered the most pathetic sight. Despite the crumpled superstructure and main decks awash, divers began exploring the wreckage of the ship within a week.

It was soon discovered that the after part of the ship from the break in the deck to the stern was relatively intact. Removal of safes, valuables and documents of a sensitive nature had begun by early 1942.

Assessment dives continued to evaluate the feasibility of raising the Arizona. Salvage officers initially considered building a cofferdam around the vessel's perimeter, thus sealing the ship off from the harbor to allow the pumping of water from interior spaces. Examination of the harbor's coral bottom concluded that it was too porous and would not allow this process.

Throughout 1942 and 1943, examination dives continued inside and outside the ship. Meanwhile, ordnance divers began to remove ammunition and projectiles in May 1942. Eventually guns, machinery and other equipment were removed for use on other ships or stations.  On May 5, 1942, the toppled foremast of the Arizona was cut away and removed. The mainmast was taken away by August 23. Other features removed were the stern aircraft crane (December 23) and the conning tower (December 30).

The Navy decided that the Army would receive gun turrets No. 3 and 4 for use as coastal defense guns. Two sites were selected: one at Mokapu Head (Kaneohe) known as Battery Pennsylvania and the second at an area known today as Electric Hill (HEI generating plant) on the western shore of Oahu, up the slopes of the Wianae Mountains. Only Battery Pennsylvania was completed. A test firing took place four days before the surrender of Japan. Today both sites are abandoned; the guns were removed and cut up for scrap shortly after the war ended.

Despite the work done to remove all useful materials from Arizona, it was apparent the ship itself was lost. A memorandum from the Commandant of the Navy Yard to Washington in June 1942, suggested abandoning salvage work on the Arizona because it was a "task of great magnitude entailing the diversion of large numbers of men and equipment from other work." In his mind, as well as others, the conviction had formed that Arizona would never fight again. On December 1, 1942, the vessel was struck from the books of commissioned ships. By October 1943, the last salvage work was completed. The ship had been stripped down to the main deck, none of the graceful superstructure remained. In 1961 the USS Arizona was altered once more. In order to place the present memorial over the ship, a section of the boat deck that rested over the galley amidships was cut away. Initially this had been the area of a flag and platform for ceremonies and visits to the site from 1950-1960. This portion of the Arizona was removed to Waipio Point where it remains today.

Quoted: My wife and I were able to visit both the Arizona Memorial and the Missouri in 1999.  I hope every American can go there at some point in their life.  It should be looked upon as our "Mecca."

+ 1 - The symbology of our entry into and our formal exit from WWII both parked near each other is powerful indeed...

Posted on: Saturday, July 7, 2001
Ford Island's aging historic sites face new assault

By Will Hoover
Advertiser Staff Writer

Amelia Earhart once crashed a plane here and walked away unharmed. John Wayne was filmed here in a cozy 1920s bungalow during the making of "In Harm's Way." President Franklin Roosevelt paid a visit in 1934, seven years before he uttered the most famous words of his life.

And, on Dec. 7, 1941 — Roosevelt's "date that will live in infamy" — the Japanese unleashed a surprise attack on the Pacific Fleet ships moored here that ushered America into World War II and altered the country's course forever.

It would be difficult to imagine a more historic piece of real estate than Ford Island, which, in 1964, was designated a National Historic Landmark.

Now, according to a History Channel documentary scheduled to air tonight, the historic area is threatened.

In "Save Our History: America's Most Endangered 2001," host Josh Binswanger tells his audience:

"Sixty years after the airstrike, Ford Island is once again under attack, only this time the threat is not from a foreign power. The U.S. Navy proposes to lease 75 acres of Ford Island to private developers. Plans call for a major housing development, a marina and a festival marketplace."

Richard Moe, president of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, which named Ford Island one of 11 "Most Endangered Historic Places," adds in the show: "We need to remember Pearl Harbor by seeing physically what happened there, and the structures and sights that represent that tragic day."

But Navy Capt. Jennifer Mustain, commanding officer of the Public Works Center at Pearl Harbor and the special assistant in charge of the Ford Island development project for Adm. Robert Conway Jr., says a larger problem is at work here:

Ford Island's aging historic structures are suffering from decades of neglect and are in severe disrepair. The situation is critical, and to solve it will cost millions, she says.

Mustain pointed out the island's deterioration to National Trust executives when they visited Ford Island last month. Since that time the trust has issued a "Take Action" bulletin on its Web site advising citizens concerned about Ford Island to contact Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in support of increased federal money to maintain historic military properties.

Meanwhile, Mustain says she welcomes input and expertise from the National Trust to help sort out how best to maintain Ford Island's history.

What are the physical remnants of the Japanese attack on Ford Island?

"Hangars, barracks and officers' bungalows that survived the attack still stand," says Binswanger in the History Channel documentary. "Old runways, chipped and scored in places by Japanese bullets, crisscross the island."

Arizona Memorial historian Dan Martinez, who appears on the segment, believes that "one of the things (that are) truly significant is that Ford Island still looks very much like it did in 1941."

Folks who first encounter Ford Island are struck by the fact that it seems a place where time has stood still since World War II. The main reason is that for most of the 20th century Ford Island was quietly inaccessible except by ferry boat. In 1998 an $80 million bridge finally connected the island to O'ahu, and opened the island to development.

South of the runway stretching across the center of the island, the most imposing landmark is the famous red-and-white candy-striped Aircraft Operations Tower prominently featured in the movies "Pearl Harbor" and "Tora! Tora! Tora!"

Not far from the tower, in the courtyard of the 1940 dispensary, a plaque commemorates the spot where a Dec. 7 bomb plowed into the pavement after striking the building. Incredibly, it didn't explode, but the impact temporarily knocked out water and electricity to the building.

At a dozen different island locations, mostly along the southern and western edges, Japanese machine-gun strafing holes and bomb splatter marking are visible.

The Luke Field Housing at the north side of the island features romantic board and batten-style Hawaiian homes with high ceilings and large kitchens that were built in the 1920s. These have always been popular with resident officers and their families.

A similar residential area known as Nob Hill lies at the southeastern portion of Ford Island. It is here that Quarters 30, a small bungalow otherwise known as the "John Wayne House," is beneath a canopy of trees.

About 20 yards from that spot, the original Arizona Memorial stands directly across from where the battleship sank. The large rock monument, erected on Dec. 7, 1955, is one of several historical markers stationed around the island.

In 1997 the Navy released an ambitious Ford Island concept plan that included hundreds of additional family housing units. But no master plan was ever developed.

Instead, the Navy scrapped the original concept plans and decided to open the process, beginning this month, to a competition among private developers.

Those developers, Mustain says, will be expected to be sensitive to the historic significance of the island and, wherever possible, suggest "adaptive reuses of existing structures."

David Scott, executive director of the Historic Hawai'i Foundation, has worked with the National Trust to "bring the glare of public attention" to Ford Island. He says preservationists realize development of Ford Island is a necessary reality.

"I don't think the whole island should be a museum," said Scott. "If you put it in mothballs and think everyone is going to come and look at it, the island will die of its own weight."

Added Peter Brink, vice president of programs for the National Trust, "Our goal is to help the Navy to ensure that the development that will occur on Ford Island is historically appropriate."

But what constitutes appropriate is the dilemma.

Back in 1979 the Navy signed an agreement with the Hawai'i State Historic Preservation Office that placed elements from yesteryear at Pearl Harbor into one of three "historic resource management" categories. The USS Arizona Memorial, for instance, is listed as a Category 1 structure.

Elements on Ford Island that played a major role in World War II were listed in Categories 1 and 2, meaning they could not be altered, demolished or removed without first consulting with the state historic preservation officer and the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation.

These elements include such things as the Island Post Office, built in 1936, bachelor officer quarters, built in 1940, and the island's two reinforced concrete air raid shelters built shortly after the attack.

However, Category 3 structures, such as the old Administration Building, several warehouses and storage buildings and numerous seaplane ramps — all of which were present during the Japanese attack — could be demolished. The only requirement is that they be photographically documented beforehand.

This agreement seemingly affords an amount of protection for the island's more vital historic aspects. But bullet holes as well as bomb and strafing marks — the actual physical manifestations left over from Dec. 7, 1941 — are not included in any category listings.

Nor are such wonderments as the swimming pool from the opening scene of "In Harm's Way," or the "John Wayne House."

Scott says there's a catch to the 1979 agreement:

Once the Navy has duly consulted with the preservation officer and the advisory council, it is free to downgrade those elements to Category 3 if it so chooses. When they're downgraded, the Navy could eliminate them at its discretion.

However, Mustain says the pool and "John Wayne House" will stay. Furthermore, she says the Navy is working on a new agreement to insure that none of Ford Island's historic elements — bullet holes and strafing marks included — will be removed without extensive consultations with public and private preservationist groups.

Betsy Merritt, deputy general counsel for the National Trust, says she received assurances to that effect when she visited Ford Island in June. But until a new agreement is completed, the one signed in 1979 remains in effect.

Which is why Scott insists that the public must remain informed about what's happening at Ford Island.

The goal of the National Trust's awareness campaign, which includes The History Channel's documentary, is to keep the Navy accountable, he says.

"If nobody is looking, then the Navy just goes along its merry way," said Scott.

You watch.......in ten years there will be hotels and beach houses all over Ford Island as the Liberal Geeks "Quietly" erase a chunk of American culture for the convenience of development.In 15 years the pressure will be on to move the "Rotting,ecologically un-sound" remains of the Arizona to another "more convenient place" for viewing.Pearl Harbor as a Navel Base of the U.S. Navy will cease to exist soon.The real estate is "Far to valuable" to allow the military to retain control of it. in 25 years all of this "WWII Battle site" stuff,will all be simply a rumor that cannot be confirmed.The Japanese will be melting down what is left of those battleships and making Honda cars of them.Poof! Gone.


Real estate development ALWAYS WINS.

Wow.  I had no idea they were planning to do redevelopment with Ford Island.  I don't know what they should do with it if they are not going to use it much but putting houses on it at the detriment of the historical structure is not kosher.  There are not a lot of places you can still see bullet holes and fragment hits on buildings and concrete.  The impact that has on people is astounding.  

When I went to Ft. Pulaski outside of Savannah, GA I could still see shell hits and even some rounds still imbedded in the walls.  This from the Civil War!  WWII is much more recent and people can relate better so the impact might be greater to see these things there.  Not sure what they should do, but for sure don't start tearing things down like that.

Quoted: My wife and I were able to visit both the Arizona Memorial and the Missouri in 1999.  I hope every American can go there at some point in their life.  It should be looked upon as our "Mecca."

+1 - we went in '02. Everybody needs to get there and see it firsthand- and then look out on the harbor and imagine what it was like back then. Those sailors probably thought they were in paradise.

I had no idea how emotional both monuments would be- The Arizona I figured would be, but to stand almost exactly on the spot that Macarthur and everybody stood on to sign the documents ending the war...? I, uh, got a lot of stuff in my eye there.  

BTW I was fascinated by the oil drops that still seep up from the wreck. It was eerie, and fascinating... Definitely reminded you of the cost.