"Civilize 'em with a Krag!" (the original islamo-terrorist killa) with pics

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - "Civilize 'em with a Krag!" (the original islamo-terrorist killa) with pics

Posted: 12/2/2005 6:49:31 AM EDT

Rifle:

Carbine:

My ugly sporterized Krag was the first milsurp I ever bought. To this day it has the smoothest action of any of my bolt milsurps; my K31 is a close second. I've been collecting repro and original pieces for it over the years. My plan is to eventually convert this 1902-era rifle into a carbine since the barrel was cut when it was bubba'd into a hunting rifle. Mine was built too late for San Juan Hill, but I like to think it may have done some work in the Pacific in the early 20th century.

US Krag History:

General:
The Model 1896 Krag-Jorgensen Rifle was the more advanced of the two main longarms generally available to the American forces. Unfortunately, it was also in shorter supply and was provided to only a few units.
Background:
The United States government began searching for a magazine longarm for its military forces in 1877. Finally after fifteen years, in 1892, it adopted a bolt-action magazine rifle - the Krag-Jorgensen Model 1892. This weapon was developed Ole Krag and Erik Jorgensen at the Konigsberg Arms Factory in Norway. The magazine rifle provided many advantages over the single-shot United States .45-70 "Trapdoor" Rifle, such as rapidity of fire, ammunition reserve, ease of loading etc.

The reason why a magazine rifle was not adopted by the United States government sooner was that the United States had not yet discovered how to make "smokeless" powder, which magazine rifles required. Smokeless powder was developed by the French and had been a closely regarded secret. Once the United States was able to produce smokeless powder, the way was cleared for the adoption of the rifle.

The first Model 1892 Krag-Jorgensen Rifle were not produced until 1894. Several minor modifications were later made to the rifle, creating the Model 1896 Krag-Jorgensen Rifle. Practically all of the Model 1892 weapons were altered to Model 1896 weapons, which included about twenty-five thousand rifles produced between 1894 and 1896. The Model 1896 Krag-Jorgensen Rifle was produced between 1897 and 1899, during which time close to thirty thousand were produced.

The Krag-Jorgensen Rifle, later modified with Model 1898 after the War, was eventually replaced by the Model 1903 Magazine Rifle which utilized a Mauser-type action.

Apparently the United States Regular Army and New York volunteer units in the Spanish American War were supplied with this weapon. The "Rough Riders" carried a carbine version of the same gun. Most other units, with the exception of those from Wyoming, were equipped with the older United States .45-70 rifle.
Advantages/Disadvantages:
The Krag-Jorgensen Rifle had several advantages over the United States .45-70, which was the more predominant longarm used by the American forces in the Spanish American War. Most importantly, the "Krag" fired ammunition that contained smokeless powder. The smokeless powder would not betray the location of the shooter as readily as would the cloud of white smoke from the blackpowder ammunition used by the .45-70. Also, the shooter did not have to wait for the smoke to clear to see his target.

Secondly, the weapon utilized a five shot magazine. The .45-70 was a single shot weapon. The extra shots were a definite firepower advantage, though something not acknowledged by the War Department at the time. The War Department claimed that the average soldier required a minute to aim and shoot. The fourteen shots a minute which could be fired by the "Krag" were therefore considered to be wasteful. The government wanted its troops to treat the gun as a single-shot weapon, with the magazine acting as a reserve in case of an emergency. The weapon was designed to be capable of being used as a single shot weapon in accordance with this theory.

The ammunition for the Krag-Jorgensen Rifle was of a smaller calibre than that of the .45-70, therefore, a trooper could carry more rounds with him (one hundred .30 calibre cartridges weighed the same as sixty .45 calibre cartridges).

Lastly, the Krag-Jorgensen Rifle fired on a flatter trajectory and therefore could be aimed more accurately with less training.

The weapon had several disadvantages which became apparent with time. The muzzle velocity was relatively low, and the mechanism had a tendency to fail. The smaller calibre "Krag" did not have the "take down" capability of the large .45 calibre weapons that were used previously.

TECHNOTES:
Action: Bolt action
Total length: 48 7/8 inches, two bands
Length of barrel: 30 inches
Rifling: 4 grooves, one turn in 10 inches.
Stock length: 46.05 inches
Weight: 9 pounds, 5 ounces with bayonet
Ammunition: .30-40 flanged cartridge
Magazine capacity: 5 rounds, but also capable
of functioning as a single shot weapon.
Charge: 40 grains of smokeless powder
Weight of projectile: 220 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1,968 feet per second
Bayonet: Knife-type, 11-5/8" long, weighing 14 ounces

Public service announcement - Krag serial number lookup to determine your weapon's manuf date.

Posted: 12/2/2005 3:38:58 PM EDT

[#1]

A guy I know picked one up for a couple hundred bucks in one those deals you and I never see.

It's a nice rifle, especially at that price.

Posted: 12/2/2005 3:41:59 PM EDT

[#2]

Those Span-Am era uniforms are the shiznitt.

Posted: 12/2/2005 3:44:01 PM EDT

[#3]

Forgive my ignorance but how does the side magazine feed rounds?

Posted: 12/2/2005 3:45:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Those guys look like serious badasses!

I agree that their uniforms are awsome as well.

Posted: 12/2/2005 3:47:57 PM EDT

[#5]

Now that was a fine post.

Good job, BayEagle.

Thanks.

Posted: 12/3/2005 7:29:27 AM EDT

[#6]

Here's another article for you guys. www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/654540/posts Yep, they're still fighting and getting their butts kicked.

At the opening of the 21st century, 300 years after the Spanish assaults and 100 years after the American efforts, the Moros are as resistant as ever, in the form of the Mindanao-based Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), formed in 1977. The MILF fields about 2,900 troops in its fight for a fundamentalist Islamic state. Its leader, Sheik Salamat Hashim, in an interview in Nida’ul Islam (Call of Islam magazine) states his now too-familiar objectives: “To make supreme the Word of Allah and implement Shari’ah [Islamic law].” His promise to those who would support him in ridding the world of Christian, Jewish and other infidel oppressors echoes down from that chain of conflicts that began with the Crusades: “Allah will surely compensate and reward you here in this world and in the Hereafter.”

One can only marvel today at the staying power of the Moros’ ferocious dedication. Then, too, perhaps it is no great wonder—given that it had 300 years to take deep root even before Ferdinand Magellan forced Christianity upon the Philippines. Whatever the case, many Moros remain reluctant citizens of this swiftly changing world. This article was written by David S. Woolman and originally published in Military History Magazine in April 2002. David S. Woolman is a Manila-based writer in the Philippines.

Posted: 12/3/2005 7:42:40 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Forgive my ignorance but how does the side magazine feed rounds?

You really need to get one in your hands and admire the fine machining and design of the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. The magazine is moved via the top tab to the right, opening the compartment. The follower moves with it. Four cartridges are dropped in (bullet forward, obviously) and the cover is "slapped" shut. The follower pushes them up and around the left side of the action. There is a magazine cut-off, as the rifle was expected to be fired single-shot, and the magazine held "in reserve." It is/was a great rifle, but sadly the cartridge was eclipsed significantly by the Mauser, which quickly made it obsolete. The Springfield that replaced it fires a much superior cartridge, and is a stronger action.

I killed my first deer with a Krag, as did my father, with the same rifle. I still have it and will cherish it always--my dad gave it to me about ten years ago. He bought it at his age 22--for $22 (he was born in 1933). He's not a deer hunter and only killed the one deer with it--a doe that was shot in the face. Ironically, at age 14 I killed my first deer--a doe that I shot in the face. Funny how that worked out.

Posted: 12/3/2005 7:46:28 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted: He bought it at his age 22--for $22 (he was born in 1933). He's not a deer hunter and only killed the one deer with it--a doe that was shot in the face. Ironically, at age 14 I killed my first deer--a doe that I shot in the face. Funny how that worked out.

Posted: 12/3/2005 7:52:40 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Forgive my ignorance but how does the side magazine feed rounds?

You really need to get one in your hands and admire the fine machining and design of the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. The magazine is moved via the top tab to the right, opening the compartment. The follower moves with it. Four cartridges are dropped in (bullet forward, obviously) and the cover is "slapped" shut. The follower pushes them up and around the left side of the action. There is a magazine cut-off, as the rifle was expected to be fired single-shot, and the magazine held "in reserve." It is/was a great rifle, but sadly the cartridge was eclipsed significantly by the Mauser, which quickly made it obsolete. The Springfield that replaced it fires a much superior cartridge, and is a stronger action.

I killed my first deer with a Krag, as did my father, with the same rifle. I still have it and will cherish it always--my dad gave it to me about ten years ago. He bought it at his age 22--for $22 (he was born in 1933). He's not a deer hunter and only killed the one deer with it--a doe that was shot in the face. Ironically, at age 14 I killed my first deer--a doe that I shot in the face. Funny how that worked out.

In addition to the superior round, it was found that the stripper clip system of the Mauser was superior to the side-box of the Krag.

Posted: 12/3/2005 7:57:06 AM EDT

[#10]

I had a real nice Krag,but because it did'nt have a cartouche,it wasn't worth much.Still,it was a great looking rifle,hated selling it. See 55 Days in Peking to see Krag in action!!!

Posted: 12/3/2005 8:04:30 AM EDT

[#11]

I

had a real nice Krag,but because it did'nt have a cartouche,it wasn't worth much.Still,it was a great looking rifle,hated selling it. See 55 Days in Peking to see Krag in action!!!

The Marines at Peking were armed with the 6mm Lee straight pull action rifles. The Army troops in the relief force had Krags.

Posted: 12/3/2005 8:08:47 AM EDT

[#12]

Kongsberg is still in the arms business. Their front lobby has examples of some of their original arms. Though nowadays they've expanded out to air defense as well.

Posted: 12/3/2005 8:14:17 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Those Span-Am era uniforms are the shiznitt.

A Big +1! If those uniforms were brought back, I'd re-up.

Posted: 12/3/2005 9:05:26 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Those Span-Am era uniforms are the shiznitt.

A Big +1! If those uniforms were brought back, I'd re-up.

Yeah, man. We be get all the trim.

Posted: 12/4/2005 5:57:16 AM EDT

[#15]

Believe the words to the tune were " tramp, tramp, tramp, and we'll civilize the HEATHEN with a Krag!.

Posted: 12/4/2005 6:05:44 AM EDT

[#16]

my first deer rifle...96' carbine

Posted: 12/4/2005 6:29:00 AM EDT

[#17]

I have a mil spec Krag rifle. It has a butter smooth action... and is a fine shooting rifle.
Wonderfull craftsmanship...

At my last CMP military bolt action match A 75 year old guy with a Krag whipped our ass at 200 yards. Everyone else was shooting '03's K-98's and K-31's....

Whatever you do...

Remember that a Krag has a single lug bolt. Inspect the lug for cracks.
With heavy loads the bolt lug was known to crack and fail.

Their is no problem shooting it with the mild loads that it was intended for.

I am sure these guys can give you plenty of good loading data:

www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/

Have fun

PS...

Turner makes a repro sling for the Krag...and the trapdoor....

Posted: 12/4/2005 7:35:13 AM EDT

[#18]

In 1998 I met a lovely woman. Easy to get along with, and was not averse to firearms.

On our second Christmas she gave me a Phillipine Constabulary Carbine.

She's my wife now, and a board Gold Member, too . . .