At least 3 Challenger astronauts survived the explosion

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - At least 3 Challenger astronauts survived the explosion (Page 1 of 6)

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:41:43 PM EDT

I had heard some conspiracy theory type stuff a few years ago but the sources were sketchy websites that didn't seem credible

on Discovery channel's When We Left Earth show they just confirmed 3 of the astronauts turned on their air packs after the explosion. Although then they said they would have been unconscious when it hit the water due to it going up to 60000 feet before it started falling
if they activated their air packs wouldn't they have stayed conscious?

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:42:55 PM EDT

[#1]

Some of the air packs were apparently activated.

NASA never released the crew audiotape

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:43:31 PM EDT

[#2]

I've heard it said that the screams could be heard over the mic set. I've also heard that one was still alive on the ground after impact, but just briefly. I'm not sure whether each of those two are a possiblity.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:44:52 PM EDT

[#3]

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:46:07 PM EDT

[#4]

There were reports that the crew cabin was intact after the explosion and thrown clear, if that is true than it is possable that some of the crew survived the initial explosion, but since the cabin would have been free falling I doubt they would have survived the impact.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:46:46 PM EDT

[#5]

until they hit the water maybe then they would be dead anyways. look at air liners every one dies and I don't think they would be going as fast as the shuttle would be from falling from so high.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:47:36 PM EDT

[#6]

Oh my gosh, thats awful.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:48:17 PM EDT

[#7]

The rumor around the place that I work is that some of the crew survived until they hit the water.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:48:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Remember all the NASA jokes?

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:48:26 PM EDT

[#9]

That sudden stop is a mutha

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:49:20 PM EDT

[#10]

I still remember crying when I watched it....

Christa McAuliffe's parents are watching... you hear their audio... everyone applauds the explosion- because they think it's a stage seperation that we've all seen before....

here's a 2nd view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAzA6k-spnc

CNN video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4JOjcDFtBE

"Sharon Christa Corrigan McAuliffe (September 2, 1948 – January 28, 1986) was an American teacher from Concord, New Hampshire who was selected from among more than 11,000 applicants to participate in the NASA Teacher in Space Project. She was one of seven astronauts killed in the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster."

I bet she inspired a lot of girls to go into science.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:49:41 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Although then they said they would have been unconscious when it hit the water due to it going up to 60000 feet before it started falling
if they activated their air packs wouldn't they have stayed conscious?

Not likely -

everything2.com/e2node/Negative%2520G-force

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:49:46 PM EDT

[#12]

There's a lot of bullshit out there purporting to be fact on this matter.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:50:06 PM EDT

[#13]

They were.

Challenger didn't "blow up." It "broke up" from aerodynamic forces when it turned sideways. The crew cabin was relatively intact.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:50:09 PM EDT

[#14]

Space travel is risky business.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:51:39 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Remember all the NASA jokes?

No, I don't. But I do remember watching Challenger blow up on live TV, in my morning History class (7th grade). Fuck anyone that made jokes about that crew.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:51:41 PM EDT

[#16]

this is from wiki, so take it for what it's worth

Cause and time of death

During vehicle breakup, the crew cabin detached in one piece and slowly tumbled. NASA estimated separation forces at about 12 to 20 times the force of gravity (g) very briefly; however, within two seconds, the forces on the cabin had already dropped to below 4 g, and within ten seconds the cabin was in free fall. These forces were likely insufficient to cause major injury. At least some of the astronauts were likely alive and briefly conscious after the breakup, because three of the four Personal Egress Air Packs (PEAPs) on the flight deck were found to have been activated. Investigators found their remaining unused air supply roughly consistent with the expected consumption during the 2 minute 45 second post-breakup trajectory. Whether the astronauts remained conscious long after the breakup is unknown, and largely depends on whether the detached crew cabin maintained pressure integrity. If it did not, time of useful consciousness at that altitude is just a few seconds; the PEAPs supplied only unpressurized air, and hence would not have helped the crew to retain consciousness. The crew cabin hit the ocean surface at roughly 334 km/h (208 mph), causing an instantaneous deceleration of over 200 g, far beyond the structural limits of the crew compartment or crew survivability levels.[10]

On July 28, 1986, Rear Admiral Richard H. Truly, NASA's Associate Administrator for Space Flight and a former astronaut, released a report from Joseph P. Kerwin, biomedical specialist from the Johnson Space Center in Houston, relating to the deaths of the astronauts in the accident. Dr. Kerwin, a veteran of the Skylab 2 mission, had been commissioned to undertake the study soon after the accident. According to the Kerwin Report:

The findings are inconclusive. The impact of the crew compartment with the ocean surface was so violent that evidence of damage occurring in the seconds which followed the explosion was masked. Our final conclusions are:

* the cause of death of the Challenger astronauts cannot be positively determined;
* the forces to which the crew were exposed during Orbiter breakup were probably not sufficient to cause death or serious injury; and
* the crew possibly, but not certainly, lost consciousness in the seconds following Orbiter breakup due to in-flight loss of crew module pressure.[10]

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:52:39 PM EDT

[#17]

Damn

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:52:45 PM EDT

[#18]

NASA failed to build a recovery system for the crew compartment thinking it wouldn't matter anyway if it blew. Now they realize it would matter and don't want us to know how miserably they failed those poor people.

Guilty conscience, basically.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:55:03 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I still remember crying when I watched it....

sally's parent's are watching... you hear their audio... everyone applauds the explosion- because they think it's a stage seperation that we've all seen before....

Yep, I was watching as it happened. It was the worst feeling. Also, I heard the sonic boom from Columbia in 2003. I was reading my newspaper when my brother called and said to turn on the TV. Just a minute or two earlier, I had heard the sonic boom and then on the TV were all those comet-like pieces of Columbia.
I only hope that none of Challenger knew what happened, but Columbia, those folks had a pretty good idea what was going on.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:55:20 PM EDT

[#20]

A couple of pics from a Google image search for "challenger crew cabin"

Pic 1

Pic 2

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:55:53 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I still remember crying when I watched it....

sally's parent's are watching... you hear their audio... everyone applauds the explosion- because they think it's a stage seperation that we've all seen before....

here's a 2nd view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAzA6k-spnc

CNN video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4JOjcDFtBE

Sorry, Dr. Sally Ride was not on the Challenger. That was Christa McAuliffe.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:56:29 PM EDT

[#22]

That was a bad day but still not as horrifying as 9/11

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:57:35 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
until they hit the water maybe then they would be dead anyways. look at air liners every one dies and I don't think they would be going as fast as the shuttle would be from falling from so high.

Google 'terminal velocity'

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:58:45 PM EDT

[#24]

I remember watching it live.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:59:11 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
NASA failed to build a recovery system for the crew compartment thinking it wouldn't matter anyway if it blew. Now they realize it would matter and don't want us to know how miserably they failed those poor people.

Guilty conscience, basically.

Any escape system that would have saved the Challenger crew would have been too heavy to launch into space.

The escape systems that emerged from the Challenger breakup were stopgap feelgood bullshit that catered to the inexplicable American need to believe that putting people on the end of a giant missile and shooting them at the stars is a safe and routine practice.

Much like strapping a man to a nitromethane burning hemi V8 and sending him down a track at 300+mph.. Someone sometime is going to buy the farm doing that shit.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:59:17 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Space travel is risky business.

Agreed. God bless our heroes, in plainclothes and uniforms, camo and spacesuits.

Posted: 6/22/2008 5:59:55 PM EDT

[#27]

I was in Mrs. Baucum's 6th grade math class, I bet you I could walk to the exact spot in the room where I was sitting even 20 years later.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:01:50 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I still remember crying when I watched it....

sally's parent's are watching... you hear their audio... everyone applauds the explosion- because they think it's a stage seperation that we've all seen before....

here's a 2nd view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAzA6k-spnc

CNN video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4JOjcDFtBE

Sorry, Dr. Sally Ride was not on the Challenger. That was Christa McAuliffe.

thanks.. I'll correct it.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:08:12 PM EDT

[#29]

President Reagan's speech afterwards

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:10:36 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember all the NASA jokes?

No, I don't. But I do remember watching Challenger blow up on live TV, in my morning History class (7th grade). Fuck anyone that made jokes about that crew.

I was in 1st grade, watching it live. I remember they kept replaying it over and over and they finally turned off the tv

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:10:53 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember all the NASA jokes?

No, I don't. But I do remember watching Challenger blow up on live TV, in my morning History class (7th grade). Fuck anyone that made jokes about that crew.

Agreed. I remember the jokes. Some sick fucks out there.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:11:46 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
They were.

Challenger didn't "blow up." It "broke up" from aerodynamic forces when it turned sideways. The crew cabin was relatively intact.

I think you're confusing Challenger with Columbia.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:22:55 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
President Reagan's speech afterwards

God damn.

I don't agree with everything Reagan did, but he was a leader and a man who spoke eloquently and with sincerity.
This country needs another leader like that.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:23:56 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
President Reagan's speech afterwards

God damn.

I don't agree with everything Reagan did, but he was a leader and a man who spoke eloquently and with sincerity.
This country needs another leader like that.

I was sobbing watching the funeral

and reagans speech definately moved me

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:26:10 PM EDT

[#35]

Fourth Grade. I remember coming from the bathroom and hearing what sounded like crying coming from the A/V room. Looking through the glass I saw the footage being looped over, and over, and over. Ran back to class and got in trouble with the teacher for telling everyone the shuttle blew up. She thought I was fibbing....and I still wish I was.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:43:32 PM EDT

[#36]

,

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember all the NASA jokes?

No, I don't. But I do remember watching Challenger blow up on live TV, in my morning History class (7th grade). Fuck anyone that made jokes about that crew.

See, I was at school yhat day to and yes I like every other American felt that lump in their throat.

And yes sorry to burst your bubble but there were alot of jokes that came from that and guess what,thats life.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:45:49 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember all the NASA jokes?

No, I don't. But I do remember watching Challenger blow up on live TV, in my morning History class (7th grade). Fuck anyone that made jokes about that crew.

Agreed. I remember the jokes. Some sick fucks out there.

+1

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:48:57 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They were.

Challenger didn't "blow up." It "broke up" from aerodynamic forces when it turned sideways. The crew cabin was relatively intact.

I think you're confusing Challenger with Columbia.

Columbia burned up. He's right about Challenger; the explosion of the center fuel tank didn't tear it to pieces, it was the fact that it got sideways. Aerodynamic forces were too much.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:55:09 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
this is from wiki, so take it for what it's worth

Cause and time of death

During vehicle breakup, the crew cabin detached in one piece and slowly tumbled. NASA estimated separation forces at about 12 to 20 times the force of gravity (g) very briefly; however, within two seconds, the forces on the cabin had already dropped to below 4 g, and within ten seconds the cabin was in free fall. These forces were likely insufficient to cause major injury. At least some of the astronauts were likely alive and briefly conscious after the breakup, because three of the four Personal Egress Air Packs (PEAPs) on the flight deck were found to have been activated. Investigators found their remaining unused air supply roughly consistent with the expected consumption during the 2 minute 45 second post-breakup trajectory. Whether the astronauts remained conscious long after the breakup is unknown, and largely depends on whether the detached crew cabin maintained pressure integrity. If it did not, time of useful consciousness at that altitude is just a few seconds; the PEAPs supplied only unpressurized air, and hence would not have helped the crew to retain consciousness. The crew cabin hit the ocean surface at roughly 334 km/h (208 mph), causing an instantaneous deceleration of over 200 g, far beyond the structural limits of the crew compartment or crew survivability levels.[10]

On July 28, 1986, Rear Admiral Richard H. Truly, NASA's Associate Administrator for Space Flight and a former astronaut, released a report from Joseph P. Kerwin, biomedical specialist from the Johnson Space Center in Houston, relating to the deaths of the astronauts in the accident. Dr. Kerwin, a veteran of the Skylab 2 mission, had been commissioned to undertake the study soon after the accident. According to the Kerwin Report:

The findings are inconclusive. The impact of the crew compartment with the ocean surface was so violent that evidence of damage occurring in the seconds which followed the explosion was masked. Our final conclusions are:

* the cause of death of the Challenger astronauts cannot be positively determined;
* the forces to which the crew were exposed during Orbiter breakup were probably not sufficient to cause death or serious injury; and
* the crew possibly, but not certainly, lost consciousness in the seconds following Orbiter breakup due to in-flight loss of crew module pressure.[10]

That's pretty much what I remember NASA releasing after investigating the issue.

Posted: 6/22/2008 6:58:28 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I was in 1st grade, watching it live. I remember they kept replaying it over and over and they finally turned off the tv

I won't watch it to this day because it was so overplayed by the media.

My cousins husband worked for KTTV-11 in LA when it crashed, he said the constant replaying of the accident was a real bone of contention amongst the staff and crew vs station management.

It's a well known fact that some of the crewmembers survived the initial breakup of the ship.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:00:58 PM EDT

[#41]

Reagan getting shot was also replayed over and over and over

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:03:14 PM EDT

[#42]

I was in 3rd grade, we were watching it in the school library. I remember the exact spot where I was sitting when it happened. I remember that I was reading a book about go-karts earlier in the day. Our class had written letters a couple weeks before.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:04:45 PM EDT

[#43]

If we die, we want people to accept it. We are in a risky business and we hope that if anything happens to us it will not delay the program. The conquest of space is worth the risk of life.

Gus Grissom after the Gemini 3 mission, March 1965

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:09:29 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
NASA failed to build a recovery system for the crew compartment thinking it wouldn't matter anyway if it blew. Now they realize it would matter and don't want us to know how miserably they failed those poor people.

Guilty conscience, basically.

Any escape system that would have saved the Challenger crew would have been too heavy to launch into space.

The escape systems that emerged from the Challenger breakup were stopgap feelgood bullshit that catered to the inexplicable American need to believe that putting people on the end of a giant missile and shooting them at the stars is a safe and routine practice.

Much like strapping a man to a nitromethane burning hemi V8 and sending him down a track at 300+mph.. Someone sometime is going to buy the farm doing that shit.

Truth.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:09:44 PM EDT

[#45]

Yeah - as I understood it some turned on their air... but I think falling that far would cause you to pass out...

At any rate - once they hit the water it would be the same as hitting earth.

I was in the 4th or 5th grade I think . I still have my weekly reader that has the article about it.

An ejection seat isn't very feasible for such a craft. The whole premise of a shuttle was sort of a flawed idea (though the ability for it to take cargo up I think is good for specialized missions). BUT I still liked the shuttle program.

The problem is there are 100000001 things on those ships and one too many oversights or flaws could end in catastrophe. But at the same time - all those involved know the risks.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:12:35 PM EDT

[#46]

tag

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:13:54 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
I remember watching it live.

Me too.

My roomie went "BOOM!" about 30 seconds into flight, and I gave him

and said it wasn't funny at all. Then it really did go BOOM, and I literally couldn't believe my eyes. I asked him if it was being re-played, but no - it was live.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:23:49 PM EDT

[#48]

Here's the official voice recorder transcript from NASA:

Crew Members
CDR.....Scobee
PLT.....Smith
MS1.....Onizuka
MS2.....Resnik

The references to "NASA" indicate explanatory references NASA provided to the
Presidential Commission.

Time Crew Crew
(Min:Sec) Member Comment
T-2:05 MS2 Would you give that back to me?
T-2:03 MS2 Security blanket.
T-2:02 MS2 Hmm.
T-1:58 CDR Two minutes downstairs; you gotta watch running down there?
(NASA: Two minutes until launch.)
T-1:47 PLT OK there goes the lox arm.
(NASA: Liquid oxygen supply arm to ET.)
T-1:46 CDR Goes the beanie cap.
(NASA: Liquid oxygen vent cap.)
T-1:44 MS1 Doesn't it go the other way?
T-1:42 Laughter.
T-1:39 MS1 Now I see it; I see it.
T-1:39 PLT God I hope not Ellison.
T-1:38 MS1 I couldn't see it moving; it was behind the center screen.
(NASA: Obstructed view of liquid oxygen supply arm.)
T-1:33 MS2 Got your harnesses locked?
(NASA: Seat restraints.)
T-1:29 PLT What for?
T-1:28 CDR I won't lock mine; I might have to reach something.
T-1:24 PLT Ooh kaaaay.
T-1:04 MS1 Dick's thinking of somebody there.
T-1:03 CDR Unhuh.
T-59 CDR One minute downstairs.
(NASA: One minute until launch.)
T-52 MS2 Cabin Pressure is probably going to give us an alarm.
(NASA: Caution and warning alarm. Routine occurrence during prelaunch.)
T-50 CDR OK.
T-47 CDR OK there.
T-43 PLT Alarm looks good.
(NASA: Cabin pressure is acceptable.)
T-42 CDR OK.
T-40 PLT Ullage pressures are up.
(NASA: External tank ullage pressure.)
T-34 PLT Right engine helium tank is just a little bit low.
(NASA: SSME supply helium pressure.)
T-32 CDR It was yesterday, too.
T-31 PLT OK.
T-30 CDR Thirty seconds down there.
(NASA: 30 seconds until launch.)
T-25 PLT Remember the red button when you make a roll call.
(NASA: Precautionary reminder for communications configuration.)
T-23 CDR I won't do that; thanks a lot.
T-15 CDR Fifteen.
(NASA: 15 seconds until launch.)
T-6 CDR There they go guys.
(NASA: SSME Ignition.)
MS2 All right.
CDR Three at a hundred.
(NASA: SSME thrust level at 100% for all 3 engines.)
T+O MS2 Aaall riiight.
T+1 PLT Here we go.
(NASA: Vehicle motion.)
T+7 CDR Houston, Challenger roll program.
(NASA: Initiation of vehicle roll program.)
T+11 PLT Go you Mother.
T+14 MS1 LVLH.
(NASA: Reminder for cockpit switch configuration change.
Local vertical/local horizontal.)
T+15 MS2 (Expletive) hot.
T+16 CDR Ooohh-kaaay.
T+19 PLT Looks like we've got a lotta wind here today.
T+20 CDR Yeah.
T+22 CDR It's a little hard to see out my window here.
T+28 PLT There's ten thousand feet and Mach point five.
(NASA: Altitude and velocity report.)
T+30 Garble.
T+35 CDR Point nine.
(NASA: Velocity report, 0.9 Mach.)
T+40 PLT There's Mach one.
(NASA: Velocity report, 1.0 Mach.)
T+41 CDR Going through nineteen thousand.
(NASA: Altitude report, 19,000 ft.)
T+43 CDR OK we're throttling down.
(NASA: Normal SSME thrust reduction during maximum dynamic pressure region.)
T+57 CDR Throttling up.
(NASA: Throttle up to 104% after maximum dynamic pressure.)
T+58 PLT Throttle up.
T+59 CDR Roger.
T+60 PLT Feel that mother go.
T+60 Woooohoooo.
T+1:02 PLT Thirty-five thousand going through one point five.
(NASA: Altitude and velocity report, 35,000 ft., 1.5 Mach.)
T+1:05 CDR Reading four eighty six on mine.
(NASA: Routine airspeed indicator check.)
T+1:07 PLT Yep, that's what I've got, too.
T+1:10 CDR Roger, go at throttle up.
(NASA: SSME at 104 percent.)
T+1:13 PLT Uhoh.
T+1:13 LOSS OF ALL DATA.

and here's the *hoax* after explosion transcript that floated around the internets...

T+1:15 (M) What happened? What happened? Oh God, no - no!
T+1:17 (F) Oh dear God.
T+1:18 (M) Turn on your air pack! Turn on your air...
T+1:20 (M) Can't breathe... choking...
T+1:21 (M) Lift up your visor!
T+1:22 (M/F) (Screams.) It's hot. (Sobs.) I can't. Don't tell me... God! Do it...now...
T+1:24 (M) I told them... I told them... Dammit! Resnik don't...
T+1:27 (M) Take it easy! Move (unintelligible)...
T+1:28 (F) Don't let me die like this. Not now. Not here...
T+1:31 (M) Your arm... no... I (extended garble, static)
T+1:36 (F) I'm... passing... out...
T+1:37 (M) We're not dead yet.
T+1:40 (M) If you ever wanted (unintelligible) me a miracle... (unintelligible)... (screams)
T+1:41 (M) She's... she's... (garble) ... damn!
T+1:50 (M) Can't breathe...
T+1:51 (M/F) (screams) Jesus Christ! No!
T+1:54 (M) She's out.
T+1:55 (M) Lucky... (unintelligible).
T+1:56 (M) God. The water... we're dead! (screams)
T+2:00 (F) Goodbye (sobs)... I love you, I love you...
T+2:03 (M) Loosen up... loosen up...
T+2:07 (M) It'll just be like a ditch landing...
T+2:09 (M) That's right, think positive.
T+2:11 (M) Ditch procedure...
T+2:14 (M) No way!
T+2:17 (M) Give me your hand...
T+2:19 (M) You awake in there? I... I...
T+2:29 (M) Our Father... (unintelligible)...
T+2:42 (M) ...hallowed be Thy name... (unintelligible).
T+2:57 (M) You...over there?
T+2:58 (M) The Lord is my shepherd, I shall...not want. He maketh me to lie down in green
pastures... though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear
no evil... I will dwell in the house...
T+3:15 to end None. Static, silence.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:24:28 PM EDT

[#49]

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is even an issue for people. The astronauts knew (and still know) what will happen if there is a catastrophic failure. No matter how good your engineering is, there are still some things that cannot be solved. One of those problems is how to save the lives of people on spacecraft if there is a complete failure.

These brave souls risked, and continue to risk, their lives in the belief that the risk is worth it relative to the contributions that they make to science and to the well-being of this country. I am profoundly proud of their sacrifice.

Everything worth doing has a significant amount of risk associated with it.

Posted: 6/22/2008 7:25:03 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember all the NASA jokes?

No, I don't. But I do remember watching Challenger blow up on live TV, in my morning History class (7th grade). Fuck anyone that made jokes about that crew.

Agreed. I remember the jokes. Some sick fucks out there.

Gallows humor is as old as humanity. As odd or as sick as it seems, ask any homicide detective, morgue worker or crime-scene cleaner if they partake.

It's how people, odd or as tasteless as it can be, deal with issues of unspeakable horror or tragedy.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - At least 3 Challenger astronauts survived the explosion (Page 1 of 6)

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