Grenades: What's All This Taping About?
June 27, 2008
Army News Service|by Pamela J. Proper

Last year a Soldier lost his arm, and two other Soldiers in his squad suffered serious injuries, when he attempted to un-tape a grenade for turn-in. Every day a Soldier somewhere will tape the safety pin and lever of a freshly issued hand grenade. Sometimes he will tape the safety pin to keep it from clanging, or he will tape a grenade to his combat vest or he will tape it for no other reason than he was told to.

Larry Baker, a Forces Command explosives safety and range manager, says taping is not necessary.

"To the best of my knowledge there is no evidence in the history of the M67 hand grenade to suggest that it requires taping and there is no evidence that a Soldier needs to tape it because of inherent safety issues," he said.

Baker should know, he has nearly thirty years of experience in the ammunition business which started when he was drafted during Vietnam.

"In Vietnam we could not tape a grenade because tape just won't stick in the jungle. There is a perception which exists in the Army today that Soldiers need to put tape on a hand grenade and that perception has become a reality. It is common place."

Baker says there is no real reason to tape a grenade. "We have grenade pouches for Soldiers now (for transporting them), so if the danger was the possibility of getting snagged on something, or becoming entangled there is a solution."

Baker says there were problems in the past with one specific explosive, the MK141, a diversionary, non-fragmenting hand grenade. It was a Navy-Marine Corps unique item used mostly by special forces in Afghanistan. Even though the Army no longer issues it, that item was the catalyst for the practice of taping grenades. Now, he says, "They tape everything."

The real problem is with turn-ins. Every unit that completes a rotation in Afghanistan or Iraq is required to turn-in unused ammunition. That ammunition has to be inspected and that's when the situation gets dicey.

"Some of these grenades are turned in and all that ammo handler can see is a ball of tape. He doesn't have X-ray vision. He can't see if the pin is secure. There is no way of knowing what is under all that tape." It creates a huge risk for the Soldier or civilian at the end of that process. Says Baker, "It's like reaching into a snake pit. You don't know which one is going to bite you."

From a supply standpoint there is also a chance that lot numbers are pulled off with the removal of tape and once those numbers are gone the ammunition becomes unserviceable. Ammunition experts say tape also leaves a sticky residue on grenades and it takes a lot of time to remove tape which makes the inspection process lengthier than it has to be. With some 900,000 grenades currently in service, "It's a risk we don't need to expose ammo handlers to," said Baker.

The Army issued two safety alerts last year. Then after the incident this past September in Al Asad, Iraq, the Joint Munitions Command issued an Ammunition Information Notice on the safety risk of taping grenades. By the way, the Soldier who was permanently injured in that incident was removing tape from an M3A2. Had it been an M67, according to Baker, "he would have been dead."

In an effort to address the perception in the field that current safety mechanisms are inadequate the Army will soon introduce a confidence clip. The clip goes between the M213 fuze and the M67 grenade body.

Army ammunition experts hope this new feature will increase Soldier confidence in their armament and equipment and, "negate the perceived need to tape grenades."

I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape.

The ones I threw had the pin and the clip over the spoon.

wow...that is good to know

Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape.

The 'PT Belt' Army at work...

Some idiot somewhere decided he needed to make his troops carry their grenades in a 'more safe' manner...

And off to the races we go....

I was always curious why they taped grenades. Added boom like taping up firecrackers?

Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape.

The secondary clip has been standard for over 30 years.

I think the tape is used as an "anti-tamper" seal.  STUPID.  Squad leaders should have more leadership than to think tape will keep Joe from playing with his grenades.

Hoot did it in Black Hawk Down... SO OF COURSE, WE MUST FOLLOW!

I never knew taping was so prevalent. I've never met many guys who did it.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape. The secondary clip has been standard for over 30 years. I think the tape is used as an "anti-tamper" seal.  STUPID.  Squad leaders should have more leadership than to think tape will keep Joe from playing with his grenades.

On top of that, the older style ALICE ammo pouches had the grenade loops that when properly fastened wouldn't start the fuse even if both the pin and the secondary clip were removed-this was demonstrated even in non-combat arms BCT like at FLW.

PVT Joe, a 19-year old boy-man, will play with things...and sometimes, he would remove the pin to straighten out the end so it would be easier to pull.  After a few accidents, the word among the juniot NCOs was to tape the pins so any tampering could be seen.  Only PVT Joe could easily pull the tape and still mess with the pin.

The safety clips are frequently lost. ASPs alwauys have extras.  As do many soldiers who have thrown a few.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a safety clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape. The 'PT Belt' Army at work... Some idiot somewhere decided he needed to make his troops carry their grenades in a 'more safe' manner... And off to the races we go....

I understand why due to those instances where a private is scared and pulls the pin without disengaging the safety clip and then throws a good weapon to the enemy because the challenge wasn't enough.

The solution for a non idiot is not fucking tape it that age old Army tool TRAINING.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape. The secondary clip has been standard for over 30 years. I think the tape is used as an "anti-tamper" seal.  STUPID.  Squad leaders should have more leadership than to think tape will keep Joe from playing with his grenades.

I tried to say they were used back when I was in the Army not that the feature was made a standard back when I joined bad choice of words.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a safety clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape. The 'PT Belt' Army at work... Some idiot somewhere decided he needed to make his troops carry their grenades in a 'more safe' manner... And off to the races we go.... I understand why due to those instances where a private is scared and pulls the pin without disengaging the safety clip and then throws a good weapon to the enemy because the challenge wasn't enough. The solution for a non idiot is not fucking tape it that age old Army tool TRAINING.

Which is why training fuses are EXACT COPIES.  And they COULD be reused but the ASP demands so much back because they are afraid a training fuse might be used to make a real grenade.

Realistic training is valuable.  Any young man can throw a grenade.

"Some of these grenades are turned in and all that ammo handler can see is a ball of tape. He doesn't have X-ray vision. He can't see if the pin is secure. There is no way of knowing what is under all that tape."

WTF?  Ridiculous.

I put one -just one- wrap of tape with a "quick release" folded at the end around the spoon of incendiary and smoke grenades that ride "loose" in the vehicle so they aren't a hazard while  crawling around inside the truck, digging for stuff in the dark, when the turret gunner is stomping around, etc.

But a "ball of tape"?  How does that even pass the smell test?  Are their NCO's that absent or stupid?  

Quoted: PVT Joe, a 19-year old boy-man, will play with things...and sometimes, he would remove the pin to straighten out the end so it would be easier to pull.  After a few accidents, the word among the juniot NCOs was to tape the pins so any tampering could be seen.  Only PVT Joe could easily pull the tape and still mess with the pin. The safety clips are frequently lost. ASPs alwauys have extras.  As do many soldiers who have thrown a few.

I think the fact alone that it will fucking kill you unlike a firearm where you have a chance to live is enough to not play with it.  I don't like things that blow the fuck up.  There is no way in hell I would ever fuck with a live hand grenade for shits and giggles.

I hated having to carry rounds for the mortar.  

Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape.

+1
 3 safety devices aren't enough? Clip , pin , spoon.
The first frag I ever threw was in 1968. I don't remember what model it was , but it did have the clip.
The tape was the WW2  field expediant that led to the development of the clip.

they running commercials on AFN now telling people not to tape their grenades.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape. The secondary clip has been standard for over 30 years. I think the tape is used as an "anti-tamper" seal.  STUPID.  Squad leaders should have more leadership than to think tape will keep Joe from playing with his grenades. On top of that, the older style ALICE ammo pouches had the grenade loops that when properly fastened wouldn't start the fuse even if both the pin and the secondary clip were removed-this was demonstrated even in non-combat arms BCT like at FLW.

Yeah but sometimes you come across previously issued frags that no longer have the safety pin. Also, most troops and contractors are no longer using the old ammo pouches with the grenade pouch on either side. There are dedicated grenade pouches now true enough but when you are not technically supposed to have HE then discretion is the better part of valor.

Taping the spoon, not the pin, and leaving a pull tab to facilitate removal is just an extra layer of safety. Properly done it poses no increased safety risks and takes minimal time (a fraction of a second?) to remove. If you haven't carried frags for a living you may not understand the concern. If you have and you are not concerned I probably don't want to be in close proximity to you

Grenades are nothing to fuck around with.

Quoted: "Some of these grenades are turned in and all that ammo handler can see is a ball of tape. He doesn't have X-ray vision. He can't see if the pin is secure. There is no way of knowing what is under all that tape." WTF?  Ridiculous. I put one -just one- wrap of tape with a "quick release" folded at the end around the spoon of incendiary and smoke grenades that ride "loose" in the vehicle so they aren't a hazard while  crawling around inside the truck, digging for stuff in the dark, when the turret gunner is stomping around, etc. But a "ball of tape"?  How does that even pass the smell test?  Are their NCO's that absent or stupid?

+1

Safety clip is easily dislodged, the spoon is not a safety, leaving only the pin.

We used to tape the caps to flares as well.  

Guess, I'm just a dumb Marine.

What do they expect? The average soldier is taught to treat a grenade like it is a nuclear warhead. Some soldiers are afraid of grenade accidents as a result.

Quoted: PVT Joe, a 19-year old boy-man, will play with things...and sometimes, he would remove the pin to straighten out the end so it would be easier to pull.  After a few accidents, the word among the juniot NCOs was to tape the pins so any tampering could be seen.  Only PVT Joe could easily pull the tape and still mess with the pin. The safety clips are frequently lost. ASPs alwauys have extras.  As do many soldiers who have thrown a few.

Yup..

Never heard of this "taping" thing, I always just left the clip in place and added a bit more bend in the pin..  no point in doing anything else.. it worked. I still have both my arms and never used any tape. Pulling the pin was not noticeably harder when i needed a grenade.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't get it.  Makes no sense M-67 hand grenades already have a saftey clip around the spoon.  Hell that was standard back in 97 when I first joined.  So I don't understand how this is a problem for M-67 hand grenades it doen't need any more safety features especially tape. The secondary clip has been standard for over 30 years. I think the tape is used as an "anti-tamper" seal.  STUPID.  Squad leaders should have more leadership than to think tape will keep Joe from playing with his grenades. On top of that, the older style ALICE ammo pouches had the grenade loops that when properly fastened wouldn't start the fuse even if both the pin and the secondary clip were removed-this was demonstrated even in non-combat arms BCT like at FLW. img391.imageshack.us/img391/9361/appleskc9.jpg Yeah but sometimes you come across previously issued frags that no longer have the safety pin. Also, most troops and contractors are no longer using the old ammo pouches with the grenade pouch on either side. There are dedicated grenade pouches now true enough but when you are not technically supposed to have HE then discretion is the better part of valor. Taping the spoon, not the pin, and leaving a pull tab to facilitate removal is just an extra layer of safety. Properly done it poses no increased safety risks and takes minimal time (a fraction of a second?) to remove. If you haven't carried frags for a living you may not understand the concern. If you have and you are not concerned I probably don't want to be in close proximity to you

I understand taping a spoon with no clip but why tape a grenade that already has a clip?  How does sombody lose the clip if it is in a grenade pouch and left the hell alone.  Why would anyone what to screw around with a live hand grenade it is suicidal and that person need to go to the head doctor to get checked out.  Why tape when there is a safety clip available.

Quoted: What do they expect? The average soldier is taught to treat a grenade like it is a nuclear warhead. Some soldiers are afraid of grenade accidents as a result.

There respect for a piece of death and then there stupid  paranoia.

More safety policy idiocy.

Lets put TRIGGER LOCKS on the rifles because the installed
safties might not work.....

Quoted: Quoted: What do they expect? The average soldier is taught to treat a grenade like it is a nuclear warhead. Some soldiers are afraid of grenade accidents as a result. There respect for a piece of death and then there stupid  paranoia.

I agree. If leaders would stop instilling stupid paranoia by treating grenades like the dangerous tools that they are instead of little balls of death that are just waiting for an opportunity to go off at the wrong time and kill a soldier, fewer soldiers would be afraid of them.

Combat Engineer '88 - '91 and Desert Storm circa '91.

Had boxes of grenades, carried grenades, and never taped them.  


[hijack] Side bar:

We rolled up on a oil rig shanty town to destroy anything of military value (that was still intact).  We spread out to do a search.  I had for some dumb ass reason left my rifle in the track (M113).  I did have everything else including grenades.  

I round a corner between building and I am face to face with the biggest ass feral dog I had ever seen.  This fucker was huge.  I stopped dead in my tracks and we were about 20 feet apart.  He was laying down and had just picked up his head.  There we stayed for what seemed like an eternity.  here was my thought process:

Oh Shit, a huge dog!
Oh Shit, I left my rifle in the track!
Damn that was dumb.
I have a grenade!
Cant use the grenade, dog is only 20 feet away and will close in fast.  
Shit.  

...

I have a knife!  
That's not great but better than a grenade.

The I slowly back pedaled around the corner whitout turing my back.  The Dog never moved.  There was nothing worth blowing up in that area.  And I imagine that when the rest of the shit blew up he probably got the hell out of dodge.  


[/hijack]

EOD responds to a lot of taped grenades.  I read a UXO safety brief that said not to tape them.

Quoted: Combat Engineer '88 - '91 and Desert Storm circa '91. Had boxes of grenades, carried grenades, and never taped them.   [hijack] Side bar: We rolled up on a oil rig shanty town to destroy anything of military value (that was still intact).  We spread out to do a search.  I had for some dumb ass reason left my rifle in the track (M113).  I did have everything else including grenades.   I round a corner between building and I am face to face with the biggest ass feral dog I had ever seen.  This fucker was huge.  I stopped dead in my tracks and we were about 20 feet apart.  He was laying down and had just picked up his head.  There we stayed for what seemed like an eternity.  here was my thought process: Oh Shit, a huge dog! Oh Shit, I left my rifle in the track! Damn that was dumb. I have a grenade! Cant use the grenade, dog is only 20 feet away and will close in fast.   Shit.   ... I have a knife!   That's not great but better than a grenade. The I slowly back pedaled around the corner whitout turing my back.  The Dog never moved.  There was nothing worth blowing up in that area.  And I imagine that when the rest of the shit blew up he probably got the hell out of dodge.   [/hijack]

That situation could have gone from bad to worse he had thrown the grenade and the dog caught it in its snout and attempted to bring it back to the thrower.

Imagine an intelligent, super fast, pantshitting inducing, soldier seeking missle.

Quoted: Grenades are nothing to fuck around with.

In that respect they are identical to the Wu Tang Clan.  Nice AAFES pogs in the pic above, I have a stack of them myself that I'll never use.

The Bush Administration is solely responsible for GRENADE TAPING.

Quoted: I was always curious why they taped grenades. Added boom like taping up firecrackers?

I figured it was so you could remove the pin at ease and then just remove the tape and toss it...

Wholly.

Quoted: Grenades are nothing to fuck around with.

DUCT Tape to the rescue!

Fuck real safety!

I heard at one time it was fashionable to take the grenade pin and pull it straight then take tape and put a few rolls of tape around the straightend pin portion.

The reason for this is so that the grenade pin can be pulled with the teeth or with the thumb of the throwing hand.  This was so during a an ambush the soldier could fire his rifle with his dominate hand and still throw grenades with the none dominate hand.

I believe that this is where the myth came from that you could pull a grenade pin with your teeth.  With out straightening the grenade pin it is impossible with out loosing some teeth.

I heard this from an old 19D master sergeant.  I also heard this from some of the older LRS guys I have had a chance to train with.

Seems dangerous as hell

One of the scouts tried it with a practice grenade he said it still hurt the teeth a bit.

A squared away NCO would have his soldiers use this approach:

1:  Use Tape as previously discussed.

2:  Reinforce with bands, elastic, retaining


3.  Reinforce with tape, hook and pile  


4.  Reinforce with Bravo Alpha 1100-NST-Rings
 

Sounds like NCO's dropping the ball, or Officers adding to the chaos.

Quoted: The reason for this is so that the grenade pin can be pulled with the teeth or with the thumb of the throwing hand.  This was so during a an ambush the soldier could fire his rifle with his dominate hand and still throw grenades with the none dominate hand.

Try throwing a frag size rock with your non dominate arm. Unless you are ambidextrous it makes for a pretty funny scene. Ask me how I know

Also, I've never heard of anyone actually advocating trying to fire your rifle at the same time you are throwing a frag. Multitasking is great when you are sitting at the keyboard but sometimes it's best to focus on the task at hand.

Quoted: Quoted: The reason for this is so that the grenade pin can be pulled with the teeth or with the thumb of the throwing hand.  This was so during a an ambush the soldier could fire his rifle with his dominate hand and still throw grenades with the none dominate hand. Try throwing a frag size rock with your non dominate arm. Unless you are ambidextrous it makes for a pretty funny scene. Ask me how I know Also, I've never heard of anyone actually advocating trying to fire your rifle at the same time you are throwing a frag. Multitasking is great when you are sitting at the keyboard but sometimes it's best to focus on the task at hand.

Did it on the grenade range at least three times not to hard really if you have practice.  Hell I once got an M-67 in a 55 gallon drum on the grenade range at Fort Hood with my left hand.

Buddy as a medic who has worked thirty + grenade ranges I can tell you that with enough practice you cound make a three point basket with a grenade tossing with your non dominate hand if you get to do it enough.

Quoted: I heard at one time it was fashionable to take the grenade pin and pull it straight then take tape and put a few rolls of tape around the straightend pin portion. The reason for this is so that the grenade pin can be pulled with the teeth or with the thumb of the throwing hand.  This was so during a an ambush the soldier could fire his rifle with his dominate hand and still throw grenades with the none dominate hand. I believe that this is where the myth came from that you could pull a grenade pin with your teeth.  With out straightening the grenade pin it is impossible with out loosing some teeth. I heard this from an old 19D master sergeant.  I also heard this from some of the older LRS guys I have had a chance to train with. Seems dangerous as hell One of the scouts tried it with a practice grenade he said it still hurt the teeth a bit.

Have you ever pulled a grenade pin?  It takes some serious pull... try doing that with your teeth and you'll end up pulling your teeth out

It's nice that Hollywood makes it look easy, but in reality, that's simply false.  

Frankly, there are two pins/clips.  One is the so called jungle clip.

It is a pain in the ass to pull the main pin.  Maybe guys are pulling the main pin and taping the spoon thinking it is easier and faster to pull the tape off.

Dumb.

Only time I tape a spoon is in an EOD procedure.  Nuff said.

Every now and then, guys on the grenade range forget to remove the jungle clip.  Then EOD gets called to clear the range.

Quoted: Quoted: I heard at one time it was fashionable to take the grenade pin and pull it straight then take tape and put a few rolls of tape around the straightend pin portion. The reason for this is so that the grenade pin can be pulled with the teeth or with the thumb of the throwing hand.  This was so during a an ambush the soldier could fire his rifle with his dominate hand and still throw grenades with the none dominate hand. I believe that this is where the myth came from that you could pull a grenade pin with your teeth.  With out straightening the grenade pin it is impossible with out loosing some teeth. I heard this from an old 19D master sergeant.  I also heard this from some of the older LRS guys I have had a chance to train with. Seems dangerous as hell One of the scouts tried it with a practice grenade he said it still hurt the teeth a bit. Have you ever pulled a grenade pin?  It takes some serious pull... try doing that with your teeth and you'll end up pulling your teeth out It's nice that Hollywood makes it look easy, but in reality, that's simply false.

Did you read the post? Yes I have thrown a shit ton of hand grenades.  And yes it is damn hard to pull a pin but that is because the pin is bent in two.

But if bend the pin straight it is actually much easier to pull the pin.  I have witnessed a 19D with a practice grenade do it so it is possible.  I have thrown a lot of grenades.

Quoted: Grenades are nothing to fuck around with.

+1...they are a pain in the ass.  Call in an F-18 and a JDAM instead.

Quoted: Have you ever pulled a grenade pin?  It takes some serious pull... try doing that with your teeth and you'll end up pulling your teeth out It's nice that Hollywood makes it look easy, but in reality, that's simply false.

NG buddy of mine did that in training many years ago with a smoke. Lost two teeth.

He hadn't even bent the ends of the pin together.

Stupid hurts.

Quoted: Quoted: Have you ever pulled a grenade pin?  It takes some serious pull... try doing that with your teeth and you'll end up pulling your teeth out It's nice that Hollywood makes it look easy, but in reality, that's simply false.   NG buddy of mine did that in training many years ago with a smoke. Lost two teeth. He hadn't even bent the ends of the pin together. Stupid hurts.

It is actually not hard to do if you bend the pin straght.  Thats where the myth had to have started you can pull a pin with your teeth if you bend it straight still hurts a little though.

Evidently you can pull a grenade pin with your teeth

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBghvAhb18Q

Quoted: "Some of these grenades are turned in and all that ammo handler can see is a ball of tape. He doesn't have X-ray vision. He can't see if the pin is secure. There is no way of knowing what is under all that tape." WTF?  Ridiculous. I put one -just one- wrap of tape with a "quick release" folded at the end around the spoon of incendiary and smoke grenades that ride "loose" in the vehicle so they aren't a hazard while  crawling around inside the truck, digging for stuff in the dark, when the turret gunner is stomping around, etc. But a "ball of tape"?  How does that even pass the smell test?  Are their NCO's that absent or stupid?

Exactly. Also, if you're not supposed to have party favors, you aren't going to put them in a frag pouch on your vest. They'll be in a GP or dump pouch so no one sees them. When that happens, double tape is a must.

Plus I've seen idiots pick up grenades by the pin.

The only reason I put 1 single strip of electrical tape around the pin is because almost 2 decade ago I had to help carry the stretcher of a guy who had an illum grenade have its pin pulled while the pin got caught in a catch me, fuck me vine while patrolling at TBS .  The pin was pulled out and the spoon released despite being a grenade pouch.  He getting some really bad burns and forever being known as Sparky. If it was a frag, maybe the safety would have stopped it from going off, but maybe not.  A small piece of electrical tape through the ring, around the fuze and back over the ring and with a fold over tab, to allow you to grab it, doesn’t slow you down.  It also doesn’t pull the pin if you take the tape off and does keep the pin from sticking out and may save you from a disaster.

Our unit's SOP in OIF V was to tape around the pin. This decision is way above a squad leader's level. Yes, they know it is dangerous and stupid, like many things in the Army, but there is not much squad leaders can do in this kind of position.

Grenades were drawn, signed for, and turned in on a daily basis. In other words, they were checked for tape every time we left the wire. It has been brought up time and time again, but a squad leader does not make the command decision here. It is simply another brilliant idea made by REMF higher-up officers.