Do some of you guys even know what OPSEC is, or just follow the sheep mentality here in causing an irrational shitstorm.

Here's my response to another "I feel rather than know" type claiming SEALs wouldn't be able to claim they were cooks instead of SEALs in case they were to be captured.

"That's true. We all know cooks patrol the mountains of Tora Bora in small unit teams while executing orders to capture or eliminate an HVT.

I understand the reason for OPSEC, but those weapons and the use of them are hardly classified. Hell, I just saw many of those at the NRA Convention a week ago; got pictures too! Our enemies are not so stupid to recognize SF or SOF teams and confuse them for "cooks." Nor believe a cook runs around with a MK46 or a P226, after jumping out of the back of airplane to conduct tactical fish frying operations when in fact searching for the stronghold of an Al Qaeda, Taliban, or HIG training camp. And if any of those guys were to be captured, I sure hope they don't have any other equipment issued to SF/ SOF, moto tats, ID cards, etc. that might give away their identities.

I guess its a good thing none of the base commanders at Camp Pendleton, Camp Lejeune, Quantico and everything in between caught me taking pictures during my stay. Or those evil "moto" ones while on the way to the range, I'd hate for them to treat me as a Marine differently if captured in a warzone. I guess the key to good treatment and escaping death is to be a cook..."




Give me a freaking break. None of this shit is classified. If this guy wasn't allowed to take pictures, I'm sure none of the armorers would have let him take them in the first place. I wasn't even allowed by myself, as a Marine Sergeant, to rome unsupervised in my unit's armory without an armorer present. They knew what he was doing. And even the dumbest windex breath mouth breather would presume he would post them and not just keep them for personal enjoyment. We all know what a SCAR, AR platform and a Sig P226 looks like. We all know American forces use weapons in war. We all know SEAL or cook, if captured, you're in for a bad time. This shit isn't a bunch of missiles, explosives, or other sensitive materials. It's small arms for crying out loud. And posting serial numbers? Yeah, woopteedoo. I'm sure Achmed is going to run Mr. SEAL's weapon serial numbers to make sure he isn't a cook. I'm sure they're surfing the overwhelming irrationality of Arfcom to gain intel to help strengthen their forces and prepare for what SOF teams are going to bring.

But hey, common sense doesn't belong in this argument.


ETA:

In true Arfcommer fashion:

All your page two are belong to me!!!

And in before the: You didn't pony up so your opinion doesn't matter dumbasses.

God, I fucking hate stupid people.

here are some FACTS:

- the majority of the folks here do not have security clearances
- of those with clearances, probably half have never seen secret/top secret documents
- the DoD marks everything even unclassified material that is not considered "general knowledge" or "public domain", ie: UNCLASSIFIED/FOUO, EXPORT CONTROLLED, etc
- the process to get a camera onto a Navy base typically requires approval from the CO/XO, and usually they review the photos prior to you leaving OR your escort will tell you what NOT to take pictures of
- OPSEC is extremely overused by the firearms community as some sort of neat "buzzword", civilians also like to misuse terms like "classified", "secret", "top secret", etc. It makes them feel like James Bond or something.



to the OP, if the internet wasn't the single LARGEST source of MISinformation, it would come as no surprise at all that the M16/M4 (and in this case their cousin the MK12 SPR) was as durable as Luttrell reports.

OPSEC issue with the armory is the fact that it's an ARMORY. Not the individual weapons within. It's all the surrounding details of that armory and its security that is a breach of OPSEC. If you don't get permission from the DoD to take pics of an area typically sealed off to civilians (and not accessible to typical servicemen either), you don't fucking do it. No matter how much YOU think it isn't sensitive material, the .gov thinks otherwise.

But see, here's the problem. FACTS don't belong here. The uneducated, irrational opinion of those who have no clue what they're talking about does.

I wonder if the joes still in the fight have to tape over their weapon serial numbers before they leave the wire. OPSEC!!!!!!!

Excuse me while I go remove my nametapes and chevrons from my cammies. You never know who might be looking. PERSEC!!!!!!

What's senstive? Drawers? Weapon racks? Dust? Have you ever been in an armory? Apart from the weapons, you have racks, drawers, tool boxes, old shitty computers, printers, etc. Yup, watch out for those... OPSEC!!!!!

If that was the case, I'm PRETTY FUCKING POSITIVE the armorer, the one who was there and responsible for the armory, would have done something.

Unless of course SMGLee used his cat like secret squirrel reflexes to bypass the MP's, base command, armorers, screening, and log book sign in to tactically infiltrate a Navy SEAL armory and take pictures without anyone's knowledge.

Otherwise, that armorer is sure to lose his clearance, be reprimanded and punished by his command, and never see or work in an armory again.

ETA: Seems you go against the grain here. Everyone else's pussy got hurt because of the weapons themselves and the serial numbers. You do bring up a valid point in regards to the security measures used to secure the armory, but I didn't see any pictures showing that.

Almost forgot, this is EXACTLY why those of us that want only the best we can get for serious defensive use demand manufacturers hold themselves to the TDP. Coincidentally this is why we are labeled Colt fan boys, kool-aid drinkers, cultists, etc.

<unrelated personal story injection>

I had a brand new set of cammies that didn't have my name or U.S. Marines on it, and I had been out at a COP for a while so my hair was a little long and everyone at TQ thought I was a terp for the Marines  






<unrelated personal story injection complete>



<Utter Thread Derailment Completed>
 

Delta Burke?

This is ridiculous
I'm going to the cat thread.

Must have been an LWRC or HK416.

Anybody who watches futureweapons knows that if it was REALLY an M4 it would explode as soon as the safety is disengaged.

Like that made for some Congresscriter to get an HK factory in his district video which HK made with M4s with water in them blowing up on one shot.  Strangely no 416s blew up but they seemed to have more draining time.  





 

man...i never read such stupid comments.

this is where your ignorance is obvious

you don't walk onto a military base with a camera or other recording device without approval from the CO/XO of the base...

in retrospect, a DoD rep may have deemed the photos FOUO (for official use only) and asked SMGLee to take them down, but if he doesn't the base commander is the one in trouble for allowing that to happen...

That's what I remember from the book.








 

Top Secret Colt!  That's so cool!

Good choice in weapons

OPSEC!!! I can see your face, rank, weapon and the two first lettes of your last name!!!!
 Teh talibans is gunna git ya!!!

Don't worry, I fixed it!

Hey that's enough of these shenanigans!

You PERSEC and OPSEC violators are gonna get it now!!!

i have got to agree, thats funny.

I can still see the cammies. How the hell is he supposed to pretend he's an MSNBC hippie journalist if he gets captured?


So much for being the gray-man.

Some interesting SEAL-related pics can be found here:  Link

A small sample of some of the better pics:









And SMGLee had nothing to do with these pics.    

How did I find this stuff ?  A casual Google image search on Easter of this year.  The news about the SEALs killing those pirates made me want some Mk18 porn.  

There is a reason why the SOPMOD Demo weapons that folks can handle at trade shows are de-milled Oly Arms. ......

The issue here has not been that its a pic of a P226, or a Mk18 or Mk12, its that it is a weapon that can be identified  by serial number as being one that is in the inventory of a particular special operations unit.

Yall yall should go ask your S2 if its OK to publish the units weapons SN's in the local paper.......

Funny this comes up now. I was talking with a former SEAL at a local gunshow. (He sells Jerky now to hide his true identity) He made me promise not to tell, but y'all can keep a secret. He said his team always used Hesse M4's, because of their superior material used in manufacturing.

Ok, it belongs to a NSW unit.

Or maybe a bridge company.

Perhaps it belongs to a young admin PFC who left it in the shitter.

I'd think the SEAL using the damn thing would give away who it belonged to.

Who cares what unit it belongs to? It's a small arms shoulder fired weapon that just about every swinging dick in country has in their possession. Even airsofters know SEALs carry cool guy shit. I'm sure the enemy does as well.

I wonder if any of the captured or fallen SF/ SOF had their serial numbers ran after the enemy was rummaging through their belongings and posting their ID cards on the internet. Because apart from your issued weapons card, they can identify someone by their weapons serial number. Right?........ Hell, I had four different rifles at one unit.

Because like I said earlier, there'd be a whole lotta shit rolling down hill if old boy wasn't supposed to be taking pictures starting at the armorers who would have been supervising him while he was in their armory. Hell, we better ban Larue, Magpul, NRA Convention, SHOT show, Colt and Google for showing potential OPSEC/ PERSEC violations of hosting pictures of warriors and their weapons used on the battlefield.

Pffft, since when do park rangers carry MK12s? Can you even hit anything with that rifle?

No I can't hit a thing with it.

It just looks scary, it and my ugly face keeps the Taliban squirrels away.

FREE

Man there is some stupid shit on ARFCOM!

OPSEC my ass!  What, now the Taliban knows we have WEAPONS!!!!  

I don't think some people know what OPSEC means.

If you wanna scare the talibans away, carry an M107/82/whatever. However, I bet you don't cause just touching off one round makes you start sobbing like a woman watching the ending of the Titanic movie

This is the funniest thing I've read all day.  Tag to see if the gentlemen from the ads wish to out themselves after I send them a link to this thread

So when I go out and CENSORED the CENSORED while CENSORING, I don't take photos of what I'm not supposed to take photos of.  Most of the photos I do take don't make it to the interwebs anyway.





Also, I've probably shredded more secret paperwork that was looked at once discarded than most folks have ever seen. (Hey Airman, go empty the secret trashcans and shred it.  Wheeee.)  Most of it isn't OMG SUPERSEKRETSQURIEL stuff anyway.  Most of Arfcom would be surprised, I think.





More seriously, almost everything in the .mil is FOUO as a CYA anyway.  The photos, while neat, did surprise me.  That said, once they're on the internet, they're out forever.  The DoD will never get them removed from circulation.  Also, at our deployed location, they don't mind photos of the living areas, so long as you don't have photos of the walls/defenses/gates/etc.  Hell, they encourage photos with a weekly amateur photojournalist competition in the base paper.

 

Maybe, but I saw those pictures and nothing screamed FOUO, let alone the classified material.  Sorry, but the OPSEC warriors have got this one wrong.  They are just good pics.

You don't tug on Superman's cape...
You don't spit into the wind...
You don't pull the mask off that ol' Lone Ranger
and you don't mess around with Jim!

COMSEC should shut this thread down.

Note the lack of visible serial number of any of the individual pieces



Edited to add that I bet I will see a shitload of guys writting JIM on their weapons

Um, it's really easy to take cameras onto NAS Jacksonville.  I've been on base many times with my cell phone.

Here is a picture of me (no, seriously) in a Navy Armory:






 

Going for Simpsons black or Indian (dot)?  I assume this only because the white dudes got yellow smiley (or frowny) faces.

Stop it, I only have 16 default colors to choose from.







 

Oooh! and a Delta Burke thread?  I'm outta here!

Not bad for a company that is about to go bankrupt!

I have been on Burke's where the CO has let us take pictures and videos of all sorts of shit... as soon as we pulled into port, the naval base was like no fucking way, cameras are verbotten, they sanitized our photos before letting us off the base, and then we had to keep the cameras in our hotel room...

when i was on LCS1 i was in radio surfing the web on my iphone looking up the specs of the USS Elrod that was sitting next to us in port...

then again at NAVSEA in DC i can't even get into the building with a personally owned cell phone...

if the location was so "secret" and no one was allowed to have pictures, it would be clearly posted at all entrances and the security checkpoints wouldn't even allow a camera into that section of the building...

furthermore, assuming SMGLee has a clearance and a proper visit request, he would more than likely still need an escort into an armory which i believe would be a restricted access area (RAA) or a secure room (SR) by Navy definition.

if somehow between the CO, MPs, and an authorized escort, he left with material in violation of OPSEC, there is a huge failure in base security, and if this was TRULY an issue, I would have read something about it on SIPR, since we get a summary of all the incident reports at all naval installations...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that individual Navy SEALS are authorized to purchase any weapons they deem necessary for their missions.  Would this not make choice of rifle a personal preference?

I doubt this is true these days. Maybe some R&D stuff.

But a sailor on another website who had some SEALS on his ship said one of them was complaining that their MP5s got "taken away" and replaced by all M16 series weapons. And this guy loved the MP5.  If it was personal preference that guy would still have had access to an MP5.

All Asians are Ninjas