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Posted: 7/11/2009 1:35:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Would be neat if it was cheaper.....
With some of these new storage techs that could charge a battery in 15m, i'm curious where things could be in 10 years if we push it. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 1:37:39 PM EDT
[#2]
how long does a charge take?
Found it. 45min is too long for road tripping. Doubt it actually gets 300 miles either. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 1:38:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Would be neat if it was cheaper..... With some of these new storage techs that could charge a battery in 15m, i'm curious where things could be in 10 years if we push it. Ive been saying for a couple years now that ell electric vehicles will be the future of driving. Atleast normal driving. I.e commuter, dropping the kids off at school, etc. Big diesels are j ust too power hungry to try and use batteries to drive. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 1:39:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
how long does a charge take? They say a full charge in 3 hours. I dont know if I believe that. They say it also has a quick charge of 45 minutes. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 1:39:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
how long does a charge take? This is the problem with every electric vehicle. It is incredibly time consuming/inconvenient to ever go farther than a couple hundred miles from your house. One of the main reasons the EV1 never took off IMO. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 1:45:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
how long does a charge take? This is the problem with every electric vehicle. It is incredibly time consuming/inconvenient to ever go farther than a couple hundred miles from your house. One of the main reasons the EV1 never took off IMO. The EV1 had a rnage of about 80 miles if I remember correctly. The current problem with electric cars is the time it takes to recharge them. If a full 100% charge can be brought down to say 10-20 minutes, then electric cars could be used for long trips. Of course 50,000 dollars for the car is a huge hurdel too. I did the math. Compared to a 25,000 dollars car you would have to drive I think it was 380,000 miles before you broke even. Who knows if the whoe drive train would last that long. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 2:11:32 PM EDT
[#7]
alot of people are already selling there tesla cars they rushed to buy.
look for articles about it, people think its a pile of shit for 100k |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 2:16:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
how long does a charge take? This is the problem with every electric vehicle. It is incredibly time consuming/inconvenient to ever go farther than a couple hundred miles from your house. One of the main reasons the EV1 never took off IMO. The EV1 had a rnage of about 80 miles if I remember correctly. The current problem with electric cars is the time it takes to recharge them. If a full 100% charge can be brought down to say 10-20 minutes, then electric cars could be used for long trips. Of course 50,000 dollars for the car is a huge hurdel too. I did the math. Compared to a 25,000 dollars car you would have to drive I think it was 380,000 miles before you broke even. Who knows if the whoe drive train would last that long. An interesting "solution" is popping up from India that uses compressed air instead of batteries. Decently long range (50+ IIRC) and it can be filled with a service station compressor in 3 min. Of course, there is no way the current setup could meet US safety standards of have a feature package that Americans would want. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 2:37:15 PM EDT
[#9]
The 4 door looks nice and somewhat affordable.
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Posted: 7/11/2009 2:37:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: how long does a charge take? This is the problem with every electric vehicle. It is incredibly time consuming/inconvenient to ever go farther than a couple hundred miles from your house. One of the main reasons the EV1 never took off IMO. The EV1 had a rnage of about 80 miles if I remember correctly. The current problem with electric cars is the time it takes to recharge them. If a full 100% charge can be brought down to say 10-20 minutes, then electric cars could be used for long trips. Of course 50,000 dollars for the car is a huge hurdel too. I did the math. Compared to a 25,000 dollars car you would have to drive I think it was 380,000 miles before you broke even. Who knows if the whoe drive train would last that long. Have to disagee. I and many others would love to have an affordable BEV we could commute to work in. Just have to get in the habit of plugging it in at night. 100 miles is plenty for this. The main problem is cost. For a typical compact car, it takes about 25-30 kilowatt hours (kWh) of capacity to get 100 miles of range. Only about 19 of that is usable due to the fact that you never want to deplete your pack to less than 30% state of charge for longevity of the pack. With current prices, a lithium pack costs about $525 per kWh. You are at $13K just for the batteries alone. Now for the basics, you need a motor, and an inverter capable of handling 120 kW of power. Just an inverter alone that is capable of handling those power levels will set you back $4k. So, you can figure just the powertrain alone with the battery pack will cost around $20k. The 2013 model year battery electric vehicle I'm working (I'm a BEV/HEV Tech. Specialist) on will add close to 700 lbs of weight over that of a base compact car with a standard 4 cylinder engine. We need an upgraded suspension system, electric A/C, extensive underbody and body rail modifications, and all new powertrain software control strategies. Plus doing all this we have to meet NCAP crash standards. The costs are huge. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 4:34:41 PM EDT
[#11]
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles.
John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:13:59 PM EDT
[#12]
I met a guy who has an electric trike, it was a pedal powered low slung trike with fairings and with a fourth wheel in the back that was the electric pusher. The pusher wheel used a three phase AC motor much like those on my electric powered RC planes but bigger. The range on one charge was San Antonio to Austin, about a hundred miles. Speed was about twenty mph, he had a camera rigged to take pics of the cars and trucks that buzzed him, he thought they would see the tiny camera and maybe decide not to buzz him.
This rig was powered by two large LiPo batteries, they cost something like 2 or 4 thousand dollars each, don't remember which, at his developer price. The batteries can do this run a few times before their capacity deteriorates too much to be able to make the trip anymore. When he gets to Austin he's trapped there by his discharged batteries. Practical electric car with 300 mile range? Sure and a BJ from Jessica Alba too while we're at it. News flash: the gas tank in a Camry doesn't cost the price of a house, in California. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:19:43 PM EDT
[#13]
I will never ever own an electric car. ever,
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:22:16 PM EDT
[#14]
It uses Li-Ion batteries which are dangerous as hell and expensive. It is also super light and expensive. If you put a gas engine on that frame it would be an AWESOME car. They had to do that to make it even interesting.
I would drive an electric car, the battery technology just won't be here for decades. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:33:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Turbo diesel for the fucking win already. fuck the epa just do it.
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:45:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Only problem is they actually take 16 hours to charge unless you're somewhere that you can plug into a 220V 30A socket
To get the 3 hour charge you need a 70 amp socket. To get the 45 minute "Quick charge" you would need a 440V line!
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:50:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? Electric cars are about as much of an electrical burden as a refrigerator... But whatever works. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 8:51:44 PM EDT
[#18]
So much for reducing our carbon footprint.
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Posted: 7/11/2009 9:21:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I will never ever own an electric car. ever, I would, but not for the ridiculous idea that we are somehow "saving the earth". I'd own one if it were economical, useful and it allowed me to be more independent (like I could charge it at home with solar or wind power). All the eco-weenie green-power crap is just Communist propaganda repackaged. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 9:44:38 PM EDT
[#20]
http://www.evparts.com/catp2-Controllers+..htm
You can convert your own 40 mile car for about 5 k with off the shelf parts using lead acid, and it will weigh less than before 40 miles is not enough for everyone but it is for most, if you want to go farther drag a small trailer with a 10k generator. I also do not see it saving me $ because I do not drive to work every day, but if I lived 10-15 miles from home and gas = 4$/gal like it did last year it would save a lot of $ |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 9:56:52 PM EDT
[#21]
I like the model S looks like an Aston
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Posted: 7/11/2009 10:02:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? Electric cars are about as much of an electrical burden as a refrigerator... But whatever works. Not to mention peak time for electrical usage is during the heat of the day. If the Electrical system can handle A/C, it can handle electric cars. |
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Posted: 7/11/2009 10:08:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Have to disagee. I and many others would love to have an affordable BEV we could commute to work in. Just have toget in the habit of plugging it in at night. 100 miles is plenty forthis. The main problem is cost. This is certainly a good point. About 6 months ago my "energy conversion systems" class (part of my mech engineering degree) watched "Who killed the Electric Car." In the discussion of the movie, that point was brought up. My response is to think of the number of cars on the road that have never been farther than 50 miles from their house (long trips are possible, but a huge pain in the ass). Then think of the number of people that can afford a completely separate vehicle just for short commutes. My guess is that the amount of people willing to do this was just too small to produce an entire new line of vehicles. That's why the EV1 failed. Thankfully (if you are into this kind of thing), the Chevy volt and Generation 3 Prius will eliminate the 50 mile tether on electric cars. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 5:40:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: And now for something more realistic.So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? A guy like me who lives in a modest house that he paid off years ago, who drives modestly priced American cars bought with cash and doesn't pay $100 a month for cable likes the concept of being able to have a car that can cover 98% of his yearly mileage without being dependent on foreign oil. He remembers the oil embargo of 1973 and knows about gas lines and even/odd license plate rationing. He knows that we import 60% of our fuel now and something like 40% then. He buys an electric car which is charged at night when peak rates are low and the power plants supplying the grid are operating at reduced output anyway. An oil embargo, war, jihad malfunction or some other worldly cluster fuck occurs and the imports slow down or stop. I drive to work in my electric car along with six other people who used to make fun of the electric car. I have the last laugh on my now captive audience. Of course, I think the Chevy volt or plug in hybrid concepts are better than pure electric, so you could take the car on trips. Electric automobiles provide one of the only realistic ways of utilizing solar cells for massive amounts of electricity production. Solar parking lots could be erected to charge the cars while parked during the day without affecting the grid. On days with lots of sun, the cars would use less gasoline (assuming plug in hybrid or Chevy Volt locomotive style cars). On days with rain or clouds, the cars would use more gasoline, but that's okay because gasoline can easily be stored while electricity is much harder to store on grid sized scales. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 5:59:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will never ever own an electric car. ever, I would, but not for the ridiculous idea that we are somehow "saving the earth". I'd own one if it were economical, useful and it allowed me to be more independent (like I could charge it at home with solar or wind power). All the eco-weenie green-power crap is just Communist propaganda repackaged. What's holding you back? If it can be done in Anacortes, it can be done in Wyoming - http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/HomePower.pdf |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 6:06:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
It uses Li-Ion batteries which are dangerous as hell and expensive. It is also super light and expensive. If you put a gas engine on that frame it would be an AWESOME car. They had to do that to make it even interesting. I would drive an electric car, the battery technology just won't be here for decades. The older Li-Ion batteries are dangerous, as they have ignited while being recharged for RC applications, and things get real interesting if one is dented in a crash. The Li-Poly batteries seem to be much safer, though they do still need monitoring while charging. Lithium-Iron-Phosphate (if I haven't gotten the name scrambled) seems to solve all of the problems except for the expense. Considering that VW was putting out 50mpg cars in the early 1980's, using a low-tech diesel, the majority of the cars currently on the market are pretty pathetic on energy efficiency. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 7:03:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? ...And don't forget about where all of this 'free' electricity comes from. Many of these 'green' cars will be powered by coal. A Kilowatt is a Kilowatt is a Kilowatt. Offsetting where the energy comes from is good stuff (oil, gas, coal, etc), but just because folks don't have CO2 (or CO) coming out of their exhaust pipe doesn't mean that they are as green as they think they are. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 9:02:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
...And don't forget about where all of this 'free' electricity comes from. Many of these 'green' cars will be powered by coal. A Kilowatt is a Kilowatt is a Kilowatt. Offsetting where the energy comes from is good stuff (oil, gas, coal, etc), but just because folks don't have CO2 (or CO) coming out of their exhaust pipe doesn't mean that they are as green as they think they are. If a person is setting themselves up to live 'off the grid', electric can be a good way to go for a daily driver. If you have a way to generate a surplus (above what is needed to run your house), either with wind turbines, a small hydrogenerator, or solar, you can run your car essentially free. At least until Obama figures out a way to tax your self-generated power for it's massive contribution to global warming. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 9:24:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? ...And don't forget about where all of this 'free' electricity comes from. Many of these 'green' cars will be powered by coal. A Kilowatt is a Kilowatt is a Kilowatt. Offsetting where the energy comes from is good stuff (oil, gas, coal, etc), but just because folks don't have CO2 (or CO) coming out of their exhaust pipe doesn't mean that they are as green as they think they are. Last I checked we don't buy coal from people who want to kill us. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 9:35:30 AM EDT
[#30]
My question is this. lets say the questions about electric cars are answered. They last a hundred thousand miles, They get 500 miles to a charge, They charge in 20 minutes, they are inexpensive, they have good performance, ok great.........but what do we do with those large batteries in 10 to 20 years when they start crashing? They started making a big deal about cell phones and cell phone batteries. So what are they going to do when there are millions of large toxic car batteries that are stacking up in land fills? It seems to me that every answer Dr birkenstock and Mrs granola. tree hugger come up with, Just have its own long term problem.
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Posted: 7/12/2009 9:45:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Tesla Model S Gets 300 miles per chagre. Costs approx 1 cent per mile to drive 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. Seats 7 (I laught at this. Must be 7 midgets) the battery will last more than 100,000 miles and is 100% recycleable Itis badass looking for a 4 door sedan Uses Lithium Ion batteries http://www.teslamotors.com Now think about this for a minute. If this car cost .01 to drive and they sell a bazillion of em, where oh where is the gov't gonna tax to make up lost revenue from gasoline? Oh, wait, this would be a perfect time to install GPS into every car to track and charge by distance travelled. Also are these lithium batteries supplied by aliens from outer space because every lithium battery I use in my tools, cell phones, camera, computer doesn't even last me a fucking year with normal use. You think we got problems now, just wait. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 9:57:56 AM EDT
[#32]
Didn't Top Gear test Tesla's performance car, and it was total crap.
 It didn't perform anything like the manufacturer claimed, the battery ran down much faster, it took forever to charge, and it kept breaking or something.
Either way, I don't understand why all the fucking green weenies want coal-powered cars anyway? Unless those idiots get behind nuclear, I don't really see the point of electric cars - even for urban driving.
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Posted: 7/12/2009 9:57:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Good point. If 1.5-2.0 million electric cars are being charged overnight then overnight is no longer "off-peak" hours. Plus the majority of our electic comes from COAL BURNING GENERATOR PLANTS....there goes the carbon tax
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Posted: 7/12/2009 10:12:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Didn't Top Gear test Tesla's performance car, and it was total crap. It didn't perform anything like the manufacturer claimed, the battery ran down much faster, it took forever to charge, and it kept breaking or something.
Either way, I don't understand why all the fucking green weenies want coal-powered cars anyway? Unless those idiots get behind nuclear, I don't really see the point of electric cars - even for urban driving. Careful - You don't want to spoil the vision (through the rose colored glasses). 
Imagine if we could couple some super high efficiency generators to the non-powered axles - we could generate more energy than we actually consume! 
Naturally I am kidding, but the thinking is on par with the 'electricity is free and falls out of the sky' folks. I am all for 'off of the grid' living and grew up around a lot of folks that made the lifestyle choice to make it happen. From what i have witnessed, it is possible, but it does require a level of sacrifice that most people aren't willing to make. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 10:53:12 AM EDT
[#35]
coal power generation is about 35% efficient -7% transmission losses-10% battery losses=18%
cars are about 15% coal plant have much better scrubbers than cars. lead batteries are recyclable . If you install a cogenerator in your home ( comparable in price to a regular heating system) you could heat your house,domestic hot water, and charge you car/ home ellectical power at the same time with the same dime. You can also use coal/wood pellet/oil/diesel to run a steam/freon/sterling generator/ turbine, or a conventional diesel plant. this could all be computer controlled and web monitored (like security systems), so you would not have to worry about it, you could also be grid tied and sell your extra power so you don't need home batteries. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 10:59:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Don't know about your states but my local power co will install a overnight charge port (220v @200a = 44kw/h ) for free An give you the nice overnight rate.
IF people could jus charge at night we'd be fine. I really liked the volt concept. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:00:15 AM EDT
[#37]
It will be capped and traded.
I'd rather have a car powered by algae oil. Maybe I could grow some in a kiddie pool or two. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:02:51 AM EDT
[#38]
I wonder how many kWh it takes to charge it.
eta: I see some people posted numbers. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:15:14 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Didn't Top Gear test Tesla's performance car, and it was total crap. It didn't perform anything like the manufacturer claimed, the battery ran down much faster, it took forever to charge, and it kept breaking or something.
Either way, I don't understand why all the fucking green weenies want coal-powered cars anyway? Unless those idiots get behind nuclear, I don't really see the point of electric cars - even for urban driving. Amen. I am not against electric cars but we a re a LONNGGGG way from getting them on the road in a practical fashion. There is some exciting battery and controlled discharge capacitor technology on the horizon that is going to revolutionize the idea of the electric car and that will be really cool...but if we don't update our grid...the point will be rendered moot. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:15:38 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? Electric cars are about as much of an electrical burden as a refrigerator... But whatever works. Not to mention peak time for electrical usage is during the heat of the day. If the Electrical system can handle A/C, it can handle electric cars. But can it handle BOTH at the same time? The answer is no. Quit living in a dreamworld full of rainbow unicorns and understressed power grids. I won't even mention the fact that those same idiots want us to go to unreliable wind and solar energy for a significant portion of electric output. I'd bet that somewhere right now, some retard greenie is suggesting we can use solar energy to recharge the batteries at night......................and people will buy it because they are weak, stupid, and easily used by others. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:18:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And now for something more realistic.
So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? A guy like me who lives in a modest house that he paid off years ago, who drives modestly priced American cars bought with cash and doesn't pay $100 a month for cable likes the concept of being able to have a car that can cover 98% of his yearly mileage without being dependent on foreign oil. He remembers the oil embargo of 1973 and knows about gas lines and even/odd license plate rationing. He knows that we import 60% of our fuel now and something like 40% then. He buys an electric car which is charged at night when peak rates are low and the power plants supplying the grid are operating at reduced output anyway. An oil embargo, war, jihad malfunction or some other worldly cluster fuck occurs and the imports slow down or stop. I drive to work in my electric car along with six other people who used to make fun of the electric car. I have the last laugh on my now captive audience. Of course, I think the Chevy volt or plug in hybrid concepts are better than pure electric, so you could take the car on trips. Electric automobiles provide one of the only realistic ways of utilizing solar cells for massive amounts of electricity production. Solar parking lots could be erected to charge the cars while parked during the day without affecting the grid. On days with lots of sun, the cars would use less gasoline (assuming plug in hybrid or Chevy Volt locomotive style cars). On days with rain or clouds, the cars would use more gasoline, but that's okay because gasoline can easily be stored while electricity is much harder to store on grid sized scales. Explain this "power down" BS about power plants............................. Unless they are peakers, plants don't "power down" at reduced energy times and power back up when demand rises unless they are dedicated [and expensive to run] peakers. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:20:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Don't know about your states but my local power co will install a overnight charge port (220v @200a = 44kw/h ) for free An give you the nice overnight rate. IF people could jus charge at night we'd be fine. I really liked the volt concept. Subsidised by the government.......................ain't nothing "free". |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:24:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Why are people bitching about an electric car from Tesla Motors? It's named after Nikola Tesla! What the fuck do people think would fuel such a name
Electric or some type of energy storage is the future. Most people with working brains know this. We are working with what we have available today in 2009. Everything is progress and we keep finding out new things and new ways to make old things better. They are what they are for right now. I actually think 50k for a car like this is fantastic for the sedan series. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:46:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Electrification is coming, guys.
The first models won't be cheap as evidenced by any 'new' technology, and the first battery electric vehicles (BEVs) like the Tesla Roadster. At over $100k, it's out of reach of most people, however, it could be very useful to many people. As a pure commuting vehicle, it would work great. 99% of the time I, and other people, drive to the office, they only have themselves and a briefcase and/or a sack lunch. Battery technology is advancing greatly. It's like the computer industry in the 90s. There have been new developments in anode material and other components that have the potential to increase storage capacity. In some case 5 to 10 fold! It takes time for R&D and for production. People worried about the grid falling over need to realize something. Peak usage happens in the afternoon. Most plug in cars will be charged overnight. Overnight, the capacity of the grid is very high since most industry is shut down for the day. I'm trying to find the article now, but within the last couple years, the IEEE suggested that off-peak capacity of our grid as-is could support something like 175,000 plug-in vehicles. Factor in, also, that over 70% of Americans commute 40 miles or less every day. If there were capacity to plug in at work, or an 80 mile range, that number goes above 90%. First, I think we'll see 'extended range electric vehicles' like the GM Volt. All aspersions about GM aside, what they're doing with the Volt will evolve the automotive industry. Being able to achieve 40 miles on electric power only will allow the average commuter to drive to and from work using no fuel. This uses 8kWh of power from the battery. Compensating for charging inefficiencies, assume 10kWh of power from the wall to charge. At my rate of $0.139/kWh it's an easy calculation - I could get 40 miles of travel on $1.39. If I want to hop in and drive to Phoenix (1000 miles from where I live), I can do it. Just stop and put gas in it like any other car. Gasoline and diesel powered vehicles will be around for a LONG time. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 11:55:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: The nuke option is best, of course.Didn't Top Gear test Tesla's performance car, and it was total crap. It didn't perform anything like the manufacturer claimed, the battery ran down much faster, it took forever to charge, and it kept breaking or something.Either way, I don't understand why all the fucking green weenies want coal-powered cars anyway? Unless those idiots get behind nuclear, I don't really see the point of electric cars - even for urban driving. However, even if coal plants are used to supply the electricity, electric cars are more efficient from "mine to wheel" than gasoline cars are from "well to wheel". Therefore, electric cars do pollute less, although I a much more interested in a having a nation that is self sufficient energy wise and electric cars, or more practically, plug in hybrid's of all flavors, could help us move in that direction. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 12:01:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: The first cars were very expensive and were play things for the rich.Quoted: Didn't Top Gear test Tesla's performance car, and it was total crap. It didn't perform anything like the manufacturer claimed, the battery ran down much faster, it took forever to charge, and it kept breaking or something.Either way, I don't understand why all the fucking green weenies want coal-powered cars anyway? Unless those idiots get behind nuclear, I don't really see the point of electric cars - even for urban driving. Amen. I am not against electric cars but we a re a LONNGGGG way from getting them on the road in a practical fashion. There is some exciting battery and controlled discharge capacitor technology on the horizon that is going to revolutionize the idea of the electric car and that will be really cool...but if we don't update our grid...the point will be rendered moot. As numbers went up, costs came down. We are at that point again. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 12:04:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Didn't Top Gear test Tesla's performance car, and it was total crap. It didn't perform anything like the manufacturer claimed, the battery ran down much faster, it took forever to charge, and it kept breaking or something.Either way, I don't understand why all the fucking green weenies want coal-powered cars anyway? Unless those idiots get behind nuclear, I don't really see the point of electric cars - even for urban driving. Top Gear admitted to 'dramatizing' the segment on the Tesla Roadster. Pushing it into the hangar was totally staged. IIRC, it did blow a fuse. One MUST realize, though, that ANY car put through it's paces on a track WILL have significantly shorter range than if it were operated in normal driving conditions. The Roadster really only suffered from being heavier than the gasoline equivalent Lotus, and thus didn't turn as well. The electric was quite capable of catching and passing in the straights. As for coal powered, I agree. We need MORE NUKES. However, recharging an electric car from coal fired power generation CAN be more efficient than burning gas in an internal combustion engine. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 12:04:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: The answer is not no. EPRI has done studies and significant numbers of electric cars can be accomodated.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? Electric cars are about as much of an electrical burden as a refrigerator... But whatever works. Not to mention peak time for electrical usage is during the heat of the day. If the Electrical system can handle A/C, it can handle electric cars. But can it handle BOTH at the same time? The answer is no. Quit living in a dreamworld full of rainbow unicorns and understressed power grids. I won't even mention the fact that those same idiots want us to go to unreliable wind and solar energy for a significant portion of electric output. I'd bet that somewhere right now, some retard greenie is suggesting we can use solar energy to recharge the batteries at night......................and people will buy it because they are weak, stupid, and easily used by others. It's also not likely that electric cars will hit the market in a huge flood due to current costs. |
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Posted: 7/12/2009 12:10:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Problem with batteries is they steadily degrade over time. You lose 1% capacity per month on a lithium-ion battery. So after 5 years, you've lost 60% of the battery's performance. Instead of 300 miles on a charge, you only get 120.
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Posted: 7/12/2009 12:11:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: The answer is not no. EPRI has done studies and significant numbers of electric cars can be accommodated.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, 5% of the population buys electric vehicles. John Greenieweenie comes home and plugs in to charge over night. The grid is presently at 105% of capacity. Brownout or even "Wump!" Blackout. "Honey," his wife says, "Looks like sandwiches again for dinner." Cold shower. No A/C. No Survivor on TV. Next morning his car isn't charged and he has to ride his kid's bike to work, making him late. But he's saving the Earth... that's what counts. Right? Electric cars are about as much of an electrical burden as a refrigerator... But whatever works. Not to mention peak time for electrical usage is during the heat of the day. If the Electrical system can handle A/C, it can handle electric cars. But can it handle BOTH at the same time? The answer is no. Quit living in a dreamworld full of rainbow unicorns and understressed power grids. I won't even mention the fact that those same idiots want us to go to unreliable wind and solar energy for a significant portion of electric output. I'd bet that somewhere right now, some retard greenie is suggesting we can use solar energy to recharge the batteries at night......................and people will buy it because they are weak, stupid, and easily used by others. It's also not likely that electric cars will hit the market in a huge flood due to current costs. This. Consider that plug in cars will be charged overnight, during off-peak times. Consider that market penetration will be SLOW. It will be YEARS maybe DECADES before plug in vehicles comprise any considerable portion of our fleet. Consider that domestic energy production means that buying that energy stays domestic. We DO need to smack the greenies down. We NEED MORE NUKES. We need STRONG baseline energy generation, and nuclear is simply the best way to do it. |
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