Getting guns off the streets. - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Getting guns off the streets. (Page 3 of 4)

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:23:24 PM EDT

[#1]

To the OP's question, you can choose to live in a society that is either (1) free or (2) safe. Most libs tend to lean toward the latter, thinking that they can situate themselves in some sort of hermetically sealed bubble where no guns or evil can get through. Unfortunately, a "safe" society would a police state with no free speech and no freedom of movement.

Personally, I will pick free over safe any day. Give me the chance to live my life with little or no government intervention. GIve me the freedom to defend myself and my family. Allow me to make my own mistakes and take my own chances.

To each his own.

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:29:38 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
This is of what our streets should look like if we want to reduce crime (not get guns off the street, what a fucking tool).

.

http://thelastcrusade.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/innocent-girl-soldier.jpg

Personally, I think that's what our streets should look like REGARDLESS of the goal.

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:38:14 PM EDT

[#3]

Gun laws simply dont work I'm from a country that has had hyper strict gun control for almost 100 years now.

Situation on the ground is thou that you can get a illegal gun for less than the price of a gun club membership.

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:42:33 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Gun laws simply dont work I'm from a country that has had hyper strict gun control for almost 100 years now.

Situation on the ground is thou that you can get a illegal gun for less than the price of a gun club membership.

This needs to be repeated for the OP - and all other Fudds, Zumboites and/or Trolls/DU plants....

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:56:51 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
What they should do is make it a crime to use a gun in a crime. They should also make it illegal for anybody convicted of a felony to own a firearm. That would make sure that there are no guns used in crimes and that criminals could not have guns.

While they are at it, they should make murder a crime, as well as theft.

Makes sense to me. If only this were in place, then we'd all be living in a Utopia.

I can't remember who said it above, but basically, if you can't be trusted with a gun, then you shouldn't be trusted to be alive. Period.

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:58:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Anyone checked the DU for a thread about this yet?

Posted: 11/30/2009 12:59:36 PM EDT

[#7]

So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

That's easy.

Enforce the laws we currently have and increase the penalties for violent crime involving firearms and add stiffer penalties for repeat offenders. Also, fuck this watching TV in prison crap, hard labor will get a mans mind right.

Guns don't kill people, people with guns that have no fear of punishment kill people.

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:03:51 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zimpete,

All the catch phrases you wrote in your original post read like someone from an anti-gun camp.

People who value the second amendment don't usually use clichés like "growing gun violence problem."

I view you with distrust.

That's funny, what kind of proof do you need?

There is no proof that can possibly show that guns, or even access to guns makes people do bad things. The guns aren't the problem, more laws won't fix the problem. Removing the killers and spoilers from our society, that fixes it.

I understand, I wanted to know how can I prove to you I am not from some sort of anti-gun camp? I think I used the catch phrases becasue it's what we all hear on the news.

Do you get a thrill up your leg when Obama comes on TV too?

Seriously though, assuming you're just kinda floating out there with too little info, it all comes down to imperfect options and lesser of evils. You give the gov't power to make a dent in a few actual criminals getting firearms illegally, then they'll have the power to fuck a lot more innocent people over. Already happens constantly, and more-so in places where the gov't has more "tools" at their disposal. The gov't is a master of diminishing returns when it comes to crime prevention vs liberty destruction. Just because something could be done, doesn't mean it's worth it.

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:05:57 PM EDT

[#9]

I pick up every gun I find in the street. Sadly that amount is at 0

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:06:04 PM EDT

[#10]

If you'd looked around here I'm sure you'd have come to the conclusion there is no law or plan that's fool proof.

We have enough laws and plans to make nearly anyone here a criminal with little effort or intent.

It shouldn't be difficult to defend yourself against violent crime but that's what the laws in many places do. They put average citizens at a disadvantage to criminals and only the well connected are allowed to CCW.

So, yeah, that's a plan. More and easier CCW for all in all 50 States. You shouldn't have to beg.

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:14:34 PM EDT

[#11]

OP. Feel free to answer the polite posters is you want and ignore the others. Most everyone is still on the same page regardless of their replies to you.

Your question seems innocent enough....and clueless to boot. If you don't know that we're sick of laws in general restricting firearms you're at least partially blind.

Anyway, we're rooting for incorporation in the McDonald case before the Supreme Court. Know anything about that? If and when we get a favorable ruling on this we may see lots of laws taken off the books and citizens given back the means to enable their inherent right to self defense.

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:16:39 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Any law that preemptively addresses an act invariably leads to abuse of power and denial of rights.
The basic solution to criminals and guns is simple.....criminals that use firearms for violence should
be removed from society permanently....by any means that society feels is justified.

That could be death, incarceration or exile.....if someone is walking our streets that should not be
allowed to own a gun due to criminal inclinations that person should not be walking our streets....
EVER.

You've said all that needs to be said.....BRAVO!

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:38:22 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Zimpete,

All the catch phrases you wrote in your original post read like someone from an anti-gun camp.

People who value the second amendment don't usually use clichés like "growing gun violence problem."

I view you with distrust.

That's funny, what kind of proof do you need?

There is no proof that can possibly show that guns, or even access to guns makes people do bad things. The guns aren't the problem, more laws won't fix the problem. Removing the killers and spoilers from our society, that fixes it.

This, we have the Laws but the Liberals and RINO's (Huckleberry) keep letting the criminals back on the streets or drop the charges all together, or Plea Bargain to a lot lesser charge

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:44:23 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

With all the people on AR15.com we must be able to come up with a plan that we could bring to our elected officials that may help the growing gun violence problem.

I, like most of you, don’t want to be finger printed or back round checked anymore. Some people feel this is an invasion of their privacy. I’m not sure I have an opinion on these kinds of practices but giving any of my personal information out seems to me like a bad idea.

Just so you know, I am a 30 something white guy with a wife and 2 young kids. I’m a hard working, gun loving, tax paying, family man who does run to his gun and bible when the shit gets bad.

So let’s do this, let’s get some ideas together for a plan that we would stand behind, because if we don’t do something the elected officials may try and put together a plan of their own and I know none of you want any part of that.

zimpete

I think you need to find another forum, maybe DU.

Posted: 11/30/2009 1:50:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Just have our legislative branch pass a ban on crime...

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:14:44 PM EDT

[#16]

"So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?"

Cut off their hands?

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:16:59 PM EDT

[#17]

We should work on keeping violent criminals off the streets.

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:26:50 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Gun laws simply dont work I'm from a country that has had hyper strict gun control for almost 100 years now.

Situation on the ground is thou that you can get a illegal gun for less than the price of a gun club membership.

This needs to be repeated for the OP - and all other Fudds, Zumboites and/or Trolls/DU plants....

Just to be more clear:
To own a gun here =
-Mandatory membership of a shooting range, with compulsory minimal 18x a year attendece
-One year "cooling off" period when buying you first 2 guns, to maximum is 5 guns you can own
-Storage requirements are mandatory Safe with ammo and fire arms stored in seperate locked compartments, and being suprised visited by the police once a year.

And still a cheap black market gun is priced below our mandatory safes and gun club membership,

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:29:34 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

With all the people on AR15.com we must be able to come up with a plan that we could bring to our elected officials that may help the growing gun violence problem.

I, like most of you, don’t want to be finger printed or back round checked anymore. Some people feel this is an invasion of their privacy. I’m not sure I have an opinion on these kinds of practices but giving any of my personal information out seems to me like a bad idea.

Just so you know, I am a 30 something white guy with a wife and 2 young kids. I’m a hard working, gun loving, tax paying, family man who does run to his gun and bible when the shit gets bad.

So let’s do this, let’s get some ideas together for a plan that we would stand behind, because if we don’t do something the elected officials may try and put together a plan of their own and I know none of you want any part of that.

zimpete

End legal immigration entirely, deport everyone here illegally, repatriate recent immigrants and their children. There goes most of the violence.

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:36:41 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Execute murderers, muggers, robbers, rapists, and gang members. Deport illegal aliens and prevent them from entering. Nationwide CCW and open carry, no license.

There, problem solved.

OUTFUCKINGSTANDING reply

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:38:14 PM EDT

[#21]

I prefer my guns in a safe. Leaving them on the street sounds like something Napoleon_Tannerite would have done.

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:42:26 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Zimpete,

All the catch phrases you wrote in your original post read like someone from an anti-gun camp.

People who value the second amendment don't usually use clichés like "growing gun violence problem."

I view you with distrust.

I just add them to the ignore list and go on.

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:43:55 PM EDT

[#23]

Rope.

Try 'em today.

Hang 'em at sun-up.

John

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:47:51 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Just have our legislative branch pass a ban on crime...

Confiscate guns guns from legislators when they are elected?

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:47:54 PM EDT

[#25]

What to get the guns off the street carried by criminals? Easy. Get the CRIMINALS of the street, make prison a PITA place to be, bring back hard labor, cut their "rights" behind bars and make the troublemakers lives miserable.

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:51:30 PM EDT

[#26]

Keep career criminals locked up.

Forever.

The guy that killed the 4 Officers up North should have been in jail the rest of his life and was released early.

Enforce the laws on the books.

That's all I have that would not be a FURTHER imposition on honest citizen's rights.

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:56:06 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
OP. Feel free to answer the polite posters is you want and ignore the others. Most everyone is still on the same page regardless of their replies to you.

Your question seems innocent enough....and clueless to boot. If you don't know that we're sick of laws in general restricting firearms you're at least partially blind.

Anyway, we're rooting for incorporation in the McDonald case before the Supreme Court. Know anything about that? If and when we get a favorable ruling on this we may see lots of laws taken off the books and citizens given back the means to enable their inherent right to self defense.

Thanks for the polite words. Where can I find out about the McDonald case?

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:57:02 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

With all the people on AR15.com we must be able to come up with a plan that we could bring to our elected officials that may help the growing gun violence problem.

I, like most of you, don’t want to be finger printed or back round checked anymore. Some people feel this is an invasion of their privacy. I’m not sure I have an opinion on these kinds of practices but giving any of my personal information out seems to me like a bad idea.

Just so you know, I am a 30 something white guy with a wife and 2 young kids. I’m a hard working, gun loving, tax paying, family man who does run to his gun and bible when the shit gets bad.

So let’s do this, let’s get some ideas together for a plan that we would stand behind, because if we don’t do something the elected officials may try and put together a plan of their own and I know none of you want any part of that.

zimpete

I think you need to find another forum, maybe DU.

So what's DU?

Posted: 11/30/2009 2:59:11 PM EDT

[#29]

1 thing––project exile.

if a suspect is carrying a gun during the commision of a crime, he gets a mandatory 5 year sentence in addition to the sentence for the crime itself. the mandatory sentence must be served, and cannot be pleaded down or commuted. when the program was first rolled out in (IIRC) richmond, VA, gun crime dropped by a staggering amount. within a year, police reported that illegal carry had dropped to almost nothing, because gang members and drug dealers knew that they couldn't get around the sentence.

what is important to note is that no additional gun control laws were passed––this was simply enforcement of pre-existing laws.

[edit: despite being incredibly effective, the program was discarded because "the effects fell disproportionately upon blacks". this despite rigorous application to anyone who committed a crime]

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:07:23 PM EDT

[#30]

Yes, by all means. We need to put them to work and let them pay off their life debt. No more fucking mercy. They choose to be in a gang or commit a crime and we deem them worthless and lock them up. Pay for it by shit canning this health bill and making crime a national security issue.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:07:59 PM EDT

[#31]

oh and go fuck yourself.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:09:33 PM EDT

[#32]

Repeal all laws forbidding the carrying of firearms by lawful citizens. No permits required to carry any weapon any way you want, concealed or open.

That's what you do.

But you can never get guns away from criminals. Impossible. If you seized all guns from lawful citizens, shut down all gun stores and seized and destroyed their inventory, criminals would still take guns from police or military. That's what they are doing in Mexico and points south now.

So the whole "get guns off the streets" thing is a mistaken premise from the very beginning.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:14:17 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
What color is the boathouse at Hereford?

"I ambushed you with a cup of coffee"

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:14:36 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
There are more people killed each year by cars and trucks (by a large factor) than all the murders committed with firearms. And yet. And yet nobody is calling for more car and truck control.

The problem is that if you focus on the tool rather than the tool user you've got a problem. Rational and thinking people focus on the criminal, not the tools used in their crime. Nobody is calling for reasonable controls on digital cameras to cure the child phonograph problem. Nobody is requiring the registration of cigarette lighters or adding taggents to matches to control arson. Nobody has asked for DNA samples from every man to help solve rape cases or asked that penises be kept under lock-n-key (save some wives!). There's not a ten day waiting period on sport bikes or sport cars. Nobody is limiting chocolate bars or Twinkies to control obesity. And yet 20,000 laws aren't even enough to begin to "infringe" on the rights of the law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms.

If tomorrow Saint Peter were to come down to the streets of Los Angeles and blow his magic horn and cause all firearms to disappear - in the hands of cops, citizens, and criminals ... I'm willing to bet my life that within 24 hours we'd had recorded the first drive-by spear chucking and have at least a handful of banks robbed with bats and clubs by the end of the week.

Don't do drugs, don't hang out with others who do, and don't screw with other peoples ... people, and you're risk for getting shot lowers by a huge factor. Don't be a cop, and don't work at a stop-n-rob and that risk lowers by another factor. Stay out of drug infested areas (re: ghetto/barrio/slums) after dark and your chance of getting shot is so damn close to nothing as to be nil. You're almost as likely to get hit by lightening.

+1 Very well said. Quoted for maximum possible truth.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:18:15 PM EDT

[#35]

This thread delivers.

Nothing to add here but part of a line from FMJ

"Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills."

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:18:54 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

With all the people on AR15.com we must be able to come up with a plan that we could bring to our elected officials that may help the growing gun violence problem.

I, like most of you, don’t want to be finger printed or back round checked anymore. Some people feel this is an invasion of their privacy. I’m not sure I have an opinion on these kinds of practices but giving any of my personal information out seems to me like a bad idea.

Just so you know, I am a 30 something white guy with a wife and 2 young kids. I’m a hard working, gun loving, tax paying, family man who does run to his gun and bible when the shit gets bad.

So let’s do this, let’s get some ideas together for a plan that we would stand behind, because if we don’t do something the elected officials may try and put together a plan of their own and I know none of you want any part of that.

zimpete

I don't want to be back round checked either...unless I'm at the doctor's office and he's screening for possible cancer.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:19:53 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
This is of what our streets should look like if we want to reduce crime (not get guns off the street, what a fucking tool).

.

http://thelastcrusade.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/innocent-girl-soldier.jpg

What's her Arfcom screen name?

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:20:50 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Zimpete, I view you with distrust.

What he said.

An even better solution would be to lock the criminals up and forget about them.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:21:40 PM EDT

[#39]

We don't need one more gun law. What we need is to fix a broken criminal justice system. When convicted violent felons serve a fraction of their sentences due to soft judges, or get turned out on the street due to some minor "technicality" that in no way actually casts doubt as to the guilt of the suspect, then there is a problem that is direly in need

of repair.

Violent or armed criminals need to be put away for a long time and treated harshly...for the FIRST offense. In the case of very violent behavior, the first stint in jail should

be lifetime without possibility of parole.

Putting violent criminals behind bars and KEEPING them there is the single most effective way to keep crime rates down.

CJ

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:26:47 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
We don't need one more gun law. What we need is to fix a broken criminal justice system. When convicted violent felons serve a fraction of their sentences due to soft judges, or get turned out on the street due to some minor "technicality" that in no way actually casts doubt as to the guilt of the suspect, then there is a problem that is direly in need
of repair.

Violent or armed criminals need to be put away for a long time and treated harshly...for the FIRST offense. In the case of very violent behavior, the first stint in jail should
be lifetime without possibility of parole.

Putting violent criminals behind bars and KEEPING them there is the single most effective way to keep crime rates down.

CJ

Not sitting in a cell watching T.V either, put the fuckers in hard labor camps.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:30:21 PM EDT

[#41]

The best answer to this problem is for an armed citizenry to shoot criminals dead in their felonious acts and for the respective communities to treat them as the honored public servants that they should be rather than condemning them as vigilantes. Wouldnt take long for they to learn.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:32:38 PM EDT

[#42]

Answer is so fucking simple, thatts why gubmint wont do it.

The only And I MEAN ONLY reason we have crime is cause we put up with it.

Shoot the fucking animals and voila no more crime.

Sooner or later youre gonn get around to shooting everyone who needs shot and youre good to go then

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:34:28 PM EDT

[#43]

I say we give criminals guns. Plenty of guns. And some ammo too. Cut 'em loose out of prison for BBQ and a game of OPFOR. If you get the flag you get to keep it and the guns. And any left over BBQ.

GAME ON

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:37:10 PM EDT

[#44]

Quit fucking around with all the bullshit feel good "gun control" issues and focus on criminal control
You commit ANY crime with a gun: automatic 25yrs in PITA prison on top of the sentence for the crime: Consecutive sentences, no parole/no pardon.
2nd offence: 50yr min tacked on to the punishment Consecutive sentences, no parole/no pardon
3rd offense: death penalty
CCW permits are recognized nationwide just like drivers licenses.
Only places you are not allowed to carry is private property that posts the proper signage…but they are responsible if someone is injured in their place of business. If they do not post, then they are protected from liability if someone commits a crime

That’s a start

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:37:19 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

So my question is, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

**snip**

Reduce the number of things that are crimes. (nothing violent... just some drug stuff and unconstitutional laws such as most of the gun laws)

Keep the criminals in jail where they belong.

Increase the number of death penalty offenses.

Hold public executions.

The only check done at the counter if any should be a call to the police to see if there is a warrant for your arrest. If there isn't one then you're good to go. If you can't be trusted with a gun then you can't be trusted in society.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:38:13 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Execute murderers, muggers, robbers, rapists, and gang members. Deport illegal aliens and prevent them from entering. Nationwide CCW and open carry, no license.

There, problem solved.

I don't agree with executing gang members unless they have committed a crime other than being in a gang. Right to assembly and all.

There's a difference between right to assembly and criminal enterprise. The second is where modern gangs fall under.

Posted: 11/30/2009 3:39:11 PM EDT

[#47]

1st crime with a gun conviction carries automatic amputation of fingers penalty.... very hard to use gun with no fingers and I mean no fingers thumbs to gone !