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Posted: 4/14/2017 5:52:48 AM EDT
Backstory.
Back around Christmas of 2014 I bought a new M&P9. I had it for a few months and decided that I liked my Glock more so I sold it. It was a private sale, a buddy and I met the guy and we agreed to the terms, I made the buyer sign a bill of sale that said he wasn't a prohibited person(flimsy I know but until I can call NCIC its the best I can do) we went our separate ways and everything was good. Everything was GTG as far as the laws here. Fast forward to last week. I got a letter (two actuality) from the forfeiture division of the DEA notifying me that I have 35days to file a ownership claim on three firearms, two long arms and an M&P9 pistol, the one I sold two years ago. Apparently back in December there was a drug related arrest in the town over where three guns were seized, the DEA apparently ran the serial numbers in the .gov's "not registration" database and the M&P popped up with my name, hence the letter. My biggest concerned is that my name has been attached to the other two when I have clearly never had anything to do with them. I did talk with a friend that is a retired LEO that worked for a couple of alphabet agency's. They said they wouldn't worry about it because a forfeiture letter wouldn't have gone out until any investigation was done and I would have been looked at for sure since the M&P traced back to me. They felt that if I was suspected of anything I would have been interviewed long before now, and that the reason the two long arms were put in my name is that they couldn't be tracked so the DEA lumped them in with the M&P. I'm not quite as worried now but I'm wondering if anyone here has ever had anything like this happen or has ever heard of anything like this? Any input would be helpful, I'm trying to consult with a local lawyer to get their take but I haven't been able get a meeting yet. I'm halfway tempted to contact NOLO's firm for a consult. 
It sure does put it in perspective just how much big brother knows. 
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Posted: 4/14/2017 6:19:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Woo hoo! Two free rifles!
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Posted: 4/14/2017 6:43:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woo hoo! Two free rifles! Depending on what the lawyer tells me I may get my M&P back.
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Posted: 4/14/2017 6:47:14 AM EDT
[#3]
So..... FTF sale leads to use in a felony?
Might want to nuke this thread, just reinforces the "gun show loophole " crowd. Edited due to fat fingers amd small digital keyboards. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 6:48:41 AM EDT
[#4]
I sold a gun to an individual that was used in a shooting. All i got was a call.
Strange is how the cop got my #, as i had changed phones & #''s. All i can guess is he got it off my latest 4473 |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 6:57:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So..... FTF sale leads to use ina felony? Might want to nuke this thread, just reinforces the "gun show loophole " crowd. Please explain, I committed no crime and I checked the buyer to the best of my ability, as per the law. nvm, I see "use in a felony" Grabbers will warp whatever they can to support them, I'm hoping I can get some information here about what, if anything I should do about this. If nothing relevant is to be had I'll ask a mod to kill it. I have no idea what actually happened, the letter didn't state any personal information about the case. Just from browsing public records it doesn't look like the guy I sold it to has been in any trouble, he could have had it stolen or he could have sold it for all I know. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 7:00:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold a gun to an individual that was used in a shooting. All i got was a call. Strange is how the cop got my #, as i had changed phones & #''s. All i can guess is he got it off my latest 4473 |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 7:14:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is what I'm guessing, my FFL must have had a audit. I couldn't see the LEO's hitting every FFL with 150mi to check for a serial number. Theres definately a database on us |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 7:20:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im saying they got my # from a later gun purchase. They must have used the system to track subsequent purchases and had an employee look at the later form to relay my phone # which was hand written on the form. Theres definately a database on us |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 7:30:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
INA felony? Please explain, I committed no crime and I checked the buyer to the best of my ability, as per the law. nvm, I see "use in a felony" Grabbers will warp whatever they can to support them, I'm hoping I can get some information here about what, if anything I should do about this. If nothing relevant is to be had I'll ask a mod to kill it. I have no idea what actually happened, the letter didn't state any personal information about the case. Just from browsing public records it doesn't look like the guy I sold it to has been in any trouble, he could have had it stolen or he could have sold it for all I know. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 7:43:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold a gun to an individual that was used in a shooting. All i got was a call. Strange is how the cop got my #, as i had changed phones & #''s. All i can guess is he got it off my latest 4473 Do you really think the cops aren't capable of finding somebody's phone number? Maybe they asked the gun shop if they had a phone number for a regular customer. Just because the local shop has your phone number doesn't mean that information is on the 4473. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 7:52:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Backstory. Back around Christmas of 2014 I bought a new M&P9. I had it for a few months and decided that I liked my Glock more so I sold it . . . Apparently back in December there was a drug related arrest in the town over where three guns were seized, the DEA apparently ran the serial numbers in the .gov's "not registration" database and the M&P popped up with my name, hence the letter. .. . . It sure does put it in perspective just how much big brother knows. How a firearms trace works: Step 1: LEO come in contact with a gun and writes down the serial number Step 2: LEO contacts ATF Tracing Center Step 3: ATF Tracing center contacts gun's U.S. manufacturer or importer and learns where gun was initially shipped (i.e. a distributor) Step 4: ATF Tracing Center contacts distributor and learns where gun was shipped next (i.e. a gun shop) Step 5: ATF Tracing Center contacts gun shop and learns who acquired the gun (i.e. a customer) Step 6: ATF contacts LEO and tells them who bought the gun -- I'm actually a bit sketchy on this step since my involvement is limited to Step 5 Note that nowhere in this chain of events did anyone (other than perhaps the gun shop owner) log onto a computer somewhere to look up which guns a particular individual owns -- or who owns a particular gun. This is old fashioned gum shoe police work involving a physical gun, phone calls, questions and answers. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 8:07:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Stop being paranoid. Do you know if the guy you sold it to was the one that committed the crime? Could be he sold it again or it was stolen from him. Either way, go pick it up and might as well pick up the rifles as well. If you don't they'll be destroyed.
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Posted: 4/14/2017 8:10:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm saying they got my # from a later gun purchase. They must have used the system to track subsequent purchases and had an employee look at the later form to relay my phone # which was hand written on the form. There's definitely a database on us Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is what I'm guessing, my FFL must have had a audit. I couldn't see the LEO's hitting every FFL with 150mi to check for a serial number. There's definitely a database on us |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 8:27:42 AM EDT
[#14]
why you should always get a Bill of Sale even for FTF transactions, buying or selling. The OP is an instance where one for selling would be helpful. And if you bought a gun FTF and it comes back stolen you have a BoS showing you bought it from somebody and didn't steal it
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Posted: 4/14/2017 8:35:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im saying they got my # from a later gun purchase. They must have used the system to track subsequent purchases and had an employee look at the later form to relay my phone # which was hand written on the form. Theres definately a database on us |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 8:39:36 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is what I'm guessing, my FFL must have had a audit. I couldn't see the LEO's hitting every FFL with 150mi to check for a serial number. Most dealers go quite a few years between audits. During an audit, the inspectors only look at the gun log entries that are still open (i.e. the gun is still in the store). They don't even ask to see the A&D records for any gun that is gone. They make sure all the open disposition records equate to a gun that is still on premises and they make sure there aren't any guns in the store that aren't logged. They look at ONE YEAR's worth of 4473 and skim through them very quickly. They look at all the dealer's DENY 4473s and double check the gun information against subsequent dispositions, looking for straw purchases. That's about it. In, out, on their way. They ain't got no time for nosing around with who bought what. Never forget this: The ATF does not send out some sort of super intelligent Sherlock Holmes gun grabber to do license inspections. They send Betty Bureaucrat and Peter Pencilpusher. The inspectors are all about the paperwork. Generally, they don't know jack about guns or even care very much about them. They're not cops. They're proofreaders. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 9:15:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How a firearms trace works: Step 1: LEO come in contact with a gun and writes down the serial number Step 2: LEO contacts ATF Tracing Center Step 3: ATF Tracing center contacts gun's U.S. manufacturer or importer and learns where gun was initially shipped (i.e. a distributor) Step 4: ATF Tracing Center contacts distributor and learns where gun was shipped next (i.e. a gun shop) Step 5: ATF Tracing Center contacts gun shop and learns who acquired the gun (i.e. a customer) Step 6: ATF contacts LEO and tells them who bought the gun -- I'm actually a bit sketchy on this step since my involvement is limited to Step 5 Note that nowhere in this chain of events did anyone (other than perhaps the gun shop owner) log onto a computer somewhere to look up which guns a particular individual owns -- or who owns a particular gun. This is old fashioned gum shoe police work involving a physical gun, phone calls, questions and answers. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 9:31:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Is not "your" M&P anymore. You sold it. I would let it be gone and not try to claim it. You got paid for it.
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Posted: 4/14/2017 9:59:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which box on the 4473 do you record your phone number? Do you really think the cops aren't capable of finding somebody's phone number? Maybe they asked the gun shop if they had a phone number for a regular customer. Just because the local shop has your phone number doesn't mean that79th information is on the 4473. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 10:05:35 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is not "your" M&P anymore. You sold it. I would let it be gone and not try to claim it. You got paid for it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 10:24:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is not "your" M&P anymore. You sold it. I would let it be gone and not try to claim it. You got paid for it. Some risk, the guy could have been a prohibited person - but you are not required to investigate that. If they said they weren't prohibited and you had no knowledge to the contrary you violated no laws. OTOH, the knowledge of who owned the firearm may help with a conviction on a drug case. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 10:37:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They hand write it on top to call if there is a delay. Its not on any of the boxes 4473 |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:01:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How a firearms trace works: Step 1: LEO come in contact with a gun and writes down the serial number Step 2: LEO contacts ATF Tracing Center Step 3: ATF Tracing center contacts gun's U.S. manufacturer or importer and learns where gun was initially shipped (i.e. a distributor) Step 4: ATF Tracing Center contacts distributor and learns where gun was shipped next (i.e. a gun shop) Step 5: ATF Tracing Center contacts gun shop and learns who acquired the gun (i.e. a customer) Step 6: ATF contacts LEO and tells them who bought the gun -- I'm actually a bit sketchy on this step since my involvement is limited to Step 5 Note that nowhere in this chain of events did anyone (other than perhaps the gun shop owner) log onto a computer somewhere to look up which guns a particular individual owns -- or who owns a particular gun. This is old fashioned gum shoe police work involving a physical gun, phone calls, questions and answers. Members and dependents. Bingo. Shotgun borrowed by room mate and left on grass at boat launch. Didn't even know it was missing. Other times the needed trace dead ended uselessly. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:23:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How a firearms trace works: Step 1: LEO come in contact with a gun and writes down the serial number Step 2: LEO contacts ATF Tracing Center Step 3: ATF Tracing center contacts gun's U.S. manufacturer or importer and learns where gun was initially shipped (i.e. a distributor) Step 4: ATF Tracing Center contacts distributor and learns where gun was shipped next (i.e. a gun shop) Step 5: ATF Tracing Center contacts gun shop and learns who acquired the gun (i.e. a customer) Step 6: ATF contacts LEO and tells them who bought the gun -- I'm actually a bit sketchy on this step since my involvement is limited to Step 5 Note that nowhere in this chain of events did anyone (other than perhaps the gun shop owner) log onto a computer somewhere to look up which guns a particular individual owns -- or who owns a particular gun. This is old fashioned gum shoe police work involving a physical gun, phone calls, questions and answers. If one of those businesses are closed, the records are all safe and sound in WV where they can be accessed anytime. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#25]
this is why i dont sell guns unless its family or close friends
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:50:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is how it is supposed to work if those businesses are still open. If one of those businesses are closed, the records are all safe and sound in WV where they can be accessed anytime. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 2:50:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is how it is supposed to work if those businesses are still open. If one of those businesses are closed, the records are all safe and sound in WV where they can be accessed anytime. 
Or, don't worry about it. If they're running a trace on your gun it means one of two things: 1.) The cops got your gun from somebody other than you 2.) The cops got your gun from you. Either way, you don't have the gun. The cops do. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:27:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How a firearms trace works: Step 1: LEO come in contact with a gun and writes down the serial number Step 2: LEO contacts ATF Tracing Center Step 3: ATF Tracing center contacts gun's U.S. manufacturer or importer and learns where gun was initially shipped (i.e. a distributor) Step 4: ATF Tracing Center contacts distributor and learns where gun was shipped next (i.e. a gun shop) Step 5: ATF Tracing Center contacts gun shop and learns who acquired the gun (i.e. a customer) Step 6: ATF contacts LEO and tells them who bought the gun -- I'm actually a bit sketchy on this step since my involvement is limited to Step 5 Note that nowhere in this chain of events did anyone (other than perhaps the gun shop owner) log onto a computer somewhere to look up which guns a particular individual owns -- or who owns a particular gun. This is old fashioned gum shoe police work involving a physical gun, phone calls, questions and answers. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:30:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why you should always get a Bill of Sale even for FTF transactions, buying or selling. The OP is an instance where one for selling would be helpful. And if you bought a gun FTF and it comes back stolen you have a BoS showing you bought it from somebody and didn't steal it About the second thing I ask a buyer/seller is that I want a bill of sale sign. I've had two guys selling stuff back out when I ask that. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:38:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Free guns...
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:49:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes, this. I'd take the copy of the bill of sale to the local PD and the atf letter and tell them this is the rightful owner to the best of your knowledge. Some risk, the guy could have been a prohibited person - but you are not required to investigate that. If they said they weren't prohibited and you had no knowledge to the contrary you violated no laws. OTOH, the knowledge of who owned the firearm may help with a conviction on a drug case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is not "your" M&P anymore. You sold it. I would let it be gone and not try to claim it. You got paid for it. Some risk, the guy could have been a prohibited person - but you are not required to investigate that. If they said they weren't prohibited and you had no knowledge to the contrary you violated no laws. OTOH, the knowledge of who owned the firearm may help with a conviction on a drug case. I'm kinda having a hard time with that, I have the name and all of that but I have no idea how to even get in contact with the DEA about it, but I really don't want to open a can of worms with that. Kinda insensitive on my part but if it was stolen from the guy I sold it to, then it really isn't my problem. He either never reported it or he didn't log the serial number to file it, or he was the one arrested but I can't check that. Unless I hear anything different, I'm probably just going to let the time on the letter run out and hope I never hear from them again. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:54:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is why i dont sell guns unless its family or close friends |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 7:34:40 PM EDT
[#33]
OP, if you honestly don't own any of the guns, just ignore it. You could contact the guy you sold the M&P to and see if it was stolen from him, so he could make a claim.
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Posted: 4/15/2017 7:54:06 PM EDT
[#34]
I know a guy who got a bass boat back in a similar type "government contacts you to say come and get your stuff."
He sold a bass boat to a guy, signed the title over, got a bill of sale signed by the guy and used the money to go buy a bigger bass boat. Almost a year later a nearby city government contacted him to tell him he had 30 days to come pick up his bass boat from an abandoned house in that city or they would impound it and auction it off. The next day he drove his truck to work with a couple of spare tires and a jack in the bed and he went and got his old boat on his way home. He never did speak of it again and I never asked if he sold it a second time - but I know it didn't stay at his house long. Funny shit happens. Not haha funny, but weird/unexpected funny. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 10:51:34 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is not "your" M&P anymore. You sold it. I would let it be gone and not try to claim it. You got paid for it. Do you really want to go there? |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:19:56 AM EDT
[#36]
4473 isn't registration-rofl-
you sold it, why try to get it back, you got paid. If you try to get it back I assume the feds will want you to file some form saying you are the legal owner, which you aren't |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 1:57:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trying to claim it would sort of negate your claim you sold it. Do you really want to go there? |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 2:09:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, if you honestly don't own any of the guns, just ignore it. You could contact the guy you sold the M&P to and see if it was stolen from him, so he could make a claim. I'm torn on whether too contact him or not, part of me says MOYB but the other part says to try and help him out if he had it stolen. I just don't want to get drug into anything. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 6:48:58 AM EDT
[#39]
You're not being drug into anything. If the DEA suspected you of anything they'd be sending agents with handcuffs not a letter. The case the guns were involved in is closed, they don't need the guns anymore. That's why they contacted you.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 10:32:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been through two ATF audits. From what I've seen, the inspector spends about 10 seconds looking at each 4473 form -- and they only look at one year's worth of forms. They quickly scan the forms looking for unchecked boxes and ensuring that all the dates match. Their primary focus is looking for screw-ups on the FFL's part. After all, they regulate gun dealers, not gun buyers. During neither of my audits did they scan anything, copy anything or take any notes about CUSTOMERS. If I fucked up and had a date wrong or skipped a box they wrote that down and pointed those mistakes out to me. They didn't seem particularly interested in the buyer's portion of the form except to see that it was filled out correctly. Most dealers go quite a few years between audits. During an audit, the inspectors only look at the gun log entries that are still open (i.e. the gun is still in the store). They don't even ask to see the A&D records for any gun that is gone. They make sure all the open disposition records equate to a gun that is still on premises and they make sure there aren't any guns in the store that aren't logged. They look at ONE YEAR's worth of 4473 and skim through them very quickly. They look at all the dealer's DENY 4473s and double check the gun information against subsequent dispositions, looking for straw purchases. That's about it. In, out, on their way. They ain't got no time for nosing around with who bought what. Never forget this: The ATF does not send out some sort of super intelligent Sherlock Holmes gun grabber to do license inspections. They send Betty Bureaucrat and Peter Pencilpusher. The inspectors are all about the paperwork. Generally, they don't know jack about guns or even care very much about them. They're not cops. They're proofreaders. |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 12:47:29 PM EDT
[#41]
The right thing to do is contact the guy you sold it to and let him claim it, or he can contact who he sold it to, etc.
Interesting they never did a trace. |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:11:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Is thia how they catch outstanding warrants? Free TV's and what not?
Yeah there was a crime and you got a notice to claim a free gun. Fill out the forms. Go get it. Smart. No lawyer needed here. |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:13:01 PM EDT
[#43]
I think all that is realistically able to be done is being done. Much more and shit gets unreasonable real fast.
Shit happens. Maybe only sell to people with a carry license or something of that nature in the future? |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 2:07:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is thia how they catch outstanding warrants? Free TV's and what not? Yeah there was a crime and you got a notice to claim a free gun. Fill out the forms. Go get it. Smart. No lawyer needed here. They could at least be creative and tell me I won a free Ferrari, not asking if I want to make a claim on a mediocre pistol and two boat anchors. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 2:24:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, no, not even close. There's is no "system" or database. It's some poor shmo at ATF contacting the manufacturer, then the distributor, then the original dealer who first sold the firearm and getting info off the 4473. Then it's tracking down the original buyer, and so on and so forth. They were getting called out and the gist of it, if I remember correctly, was that they claimed that they had never used it for evidence leading to any conviction so technically they had not violated the constitution. Again, if I remember correctly they pretty much got got let off with the promise that they stop using it and never do it again. Senator Lautenberg was involved as I remember and I read about it first in a report in an NRA Magazine. This was somewhere along the mid to late nineties. The program had been dubbed with some slick name like they do with the multitudes of other .gov. data collection and tracking programs. I assure you, databased tracking of legitimate purchases exists. After all, they already did it and admitted it in front of congress at least once. Do you really believe that those that create an illegal registry and use it can be trusted when they promise to stop. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 2:32:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think all that is realistically able to be done is being done. Much more and shit gets unreasonable real fast. Shit happens. Maybe only sell to people with a carry license or something of that nature in the future? |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 2:39:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The right thing to do is contact the guy you sold it to and let him claim it, or he can contact who he sold it to, etc. Interesting they never did a trace. I didn't get into anything specific but I ask that he contact me. I sent a text and left a message on his FB, two days later and I haven't heard back. I think I've done what I can to let him know about it. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 7:08:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Make sure those bound books are always totally up to date. But thanks for the reminder. It's probably time to print out an updated hard-copy of the bound book. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 12:21:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I once saw a congressional committee interviewing BATF officials regarding the constitutionality of a software based system of gun ownership tracking that used interactive mapping like Google Maps to display the addresses of the owners of firearms by placing colored circles around their homes based on how many and what type of firearms they were known to have purchased. They were getting called out and the gist of it, if I remember correctly, was that they claimed that they had never used it for evidence leading to any conviction so technically they had not violated the constitution. Again, if I remember correctly they pretty much got got let off with the promise that they stop using it and never do it again. Senator Lautenberg was involved as I remember and I read about it first in a report in an NRA Magazine. This was somewhere along the mid to late nineties. The program had been dubbed with some slick name like they do with the multitudes of other .gov. data collection and tracking programs. I assure you, databased tracking of legitimate purchases exists. After all, they already did it and admitted it in front of congress at least once. Do you really believe that those that create an illegal registry and use it can be trusted when they promise to stop.
I've been an FFL for almost nine years and ATF has NO IDEA who I transfer guns to....how would they? They don't get a copy of the 4473 until the dealer goes out of business. And even then it's only the last twenty years worth of 4473's..... I can destroy 4473's that are older than that. Further, the Form 4473 only shows who the first retail buyer is. If that buyer subsequently sells/gifts/trades that gun no record is required under Federal law. If you really believe this was possible in the late '90's you haven't been paying much attention to how technology backward ATF really is. Oh, and before you mention the FBI NICS...........they are only told what type of gun is being transferred (handgun/long gun/other) and not told how many, what caliber, what manufacturer, etc. Nor are they given the address of the buyer/transferee. Good grief. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 7:15:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps my sarcasm meter need an adjustment, but that is why I asked about this in the legal section not GD. They could at least be creative and tell me I won a free Ferrari, not asking if I want to make a claim on a mediocre pistol and two boat anchors. Run. Don't walk Run to a lawyer. Even a polite "no thanks" should come from a lawyer. And as others have posted there cannot be any computerized system of guns, if you have seen how a bureaucracy works you know that they need lifetime jobs, that involves paper hunts. Go check out the Nassau county pistol department, I'm sure the ATF is pretty similar. I think there had been some change recently, but as of a few years ago, The newest computer there was the one that clackity clackity clacked the pistol you just registered on your permit manually. If there was an investigation, then five six-figure detectives would have to run the paper trail. |
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