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Posted: 3/15/2017 11:18:36 AM EDT
PSA Barrels, a brief overview.
There are many different metals and types of barrels, and finishes for those barrels that are offered by PSA. Before I go into them, I will need to define some simple acronyms/terms.
2.)CL = Chrome lined - A chroming of metal inside the bore of the barrel. Chrome-lining protects the barrel from corrosion, but this is not the main purpose for lining a barrel. Chrome-lined barrels are also easier to clean, but the military would not invest in a chrome-lined barrel just to save a grunt some time swabbing out the bore. 3.)MP/MPI = Magnetic Particle Inspected - where they use giant magnets to verify the integrity of the barrel. Magnetic particle Inspection (MPI) is a non-destructive testing (NDT) process for detecting surface and slightly subsurface discontinuities in ferromagnetic materials such as iron, nickel, cobalt, and some of their alloys. The process puts a magnetic field into the part. The piece can be magnetized by direct or indirect magnetization. Direct magnetization occurs when the electric current is passed through the test object and a magnetic field is formed in the material. Indirect magnetization occurs when no electric current is passed through the test object, but a magnetic field is applied from an outside source. The magnetic lines of force are perpendicular to the direction of the electric current, which may be either alternating current (AC) or some form of direct current (DC) (rectified AC). 4.)Nitride - a chemical bond forming a protective coating on the inside and outside of the barrels to protect against the elements. MH Nitride (Melonite) is a chemical process performed at high temperature (975-1100 degrees) in a cyanate salt bath. The finish is on the inside and outside of the barrel. Glock uses this process and they call it Tenifer. 5.)Phosphate coating - common way the barrels are protected against the elements. Phosphate coatings are a crystalline conversion coating that is formed on a ferrous metal substrate. The process of Phosphate coating is employed for the purpose of pretreatment prior to coating or painting, increasing corrosion protection and improving friction properties of sliding components. 6.)Melonite - MELONITE is a thermochemical treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts. It exhibits predictable and repeatable results in the treating of low and medium carbon steels, alloy steels, stainless and austenitic steels, tool and die steels, cast and sintered iron. It is a form of ferric nitrocarburizing. Now that the basic finish definitions are done, we will need to go over various gas lengths offered. Generally gas system lengths come in 4 flavors. For more in-depth reading regarding AR gas systems please feel free to read this article from the NRA: NRA's Shooting Illustrated Article on AR gas Systems Explained
2.)Carbine length – Gas port is 7 inches from chamber, typically used in barrels 10-18” inches. 3.)Mid-Length – Gas port is 9 inches from chamber, typically used in barrels 14-20” inches long. 4.)Rifle length – Gas port is 12 inches from chamber, typically used in barrels 20 plus inches and longer. Alright so that’s the very basic basics of barrels in a very loose manner. I’m not planning at this time to go into barrel profiles, or twist rates (other than mere mentioning them) or barrel muzzle twist rates, either. Next, we’ll list what I believe to be the basic PSA lineup from best to entry level. This is where the meat of the matter, well matters. I have decided to break the lineup down into three sections, each containing about 3 or 4 sub categories.
b.Cold Hammer Forged – Nitride Coated. c.Cold Hammer Forged – Stainless steel. 2.)The PSA Premium Tier
b.PSA Premium Line – Stainless Steel. c.PSA Premium Line – Nitride Coated. 3.)The PSA Freedom Tier
b.PSA Freedom Line – Nitride or phosphate coated. 4.)The PSA Unmarked/PTAC Tier
b.PTAC marked or unmarked – Nitride or phosphate coated 1.) The PSA Top Tier: A.) The top dog in the PSA line is the CHF CL/MP barrel. These barrels were first produced by FN/Herstal for PSA. FN produces these barrels right here in Columbia, SC at their plant. These barrels come in a 1/7 twist and are Phosphate coated only. They can range in length, I’ve seen them from pistol length of sub 10.5” to 20”. All of these barrels are Chrome Lined (CL) and Magnetic Particle Inspected (MP/MPI). Some have front sight blocks installed, some do not. Some have PSA stamped into them and some bear the FN roll mark. Markings position varies depending on the length of the barrel. Generally speaking, cost on the PSA FN produced barrels tends to range 150-300.00 depending on sales, market, etc. FN Calls this metal “Machine Gun Steel” From PSA’s Site they state this about CHF Barrels by FN: These barrels are made of a proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. The hammer forging process work hardens the steel over a tapered mandrel, making it more durable. In addition, the chrome process for the bore allows for a lining almost twice as thick as a standard M16 for enhanced durability. Chambered in various calibers, with a various twist rates, M4 barrel extension, and various gas systems are available. These barrels are Mil-spec phosphate coated, High Pressure tested and Magnetic Particle inspected. Many other companies use FN’s CHF barrels, some of those include FN, and Spikes tactical. These Barrels look like this: B.) PSA CHF Nitride coated barrel. The PSA CHF Nitride barrel is believed to be made in house by PSA, (which since PSA is part of a conglomerate, may not be known by most of us outsiders. It is believed that these barrels are made in the mid-west, or west coast, although at this time that is pure speculation as there are many Cold Hammer Forges around the world and North America. Some of those include, FN Herstal, Colt Canada (diemaco), Daniel Defense, Ruger, Arsenal (Bulgaria), Styer (Austria), Remington, Knights Armament, etc. I feel that the key is to find who’s making the CHF Nitride barrels, and you’ll know what company is making them for PSA, be it a conglomerate member or not. Because PSA’s description of these state “Made in the USA” it tells me it has to be a domestic manufacturer. These barrels are listed as being made from 4150V Chrome Moly Steel, and can come in a variety of Gas systems, profiles, and twists. As with all PSA barrels, they have a M4 barrel extension. These barrels look like: C.) The PSA Stainless Steel Cold Hammer Forged Barrel PSA Also makes the PSA Cold Hammer Forged Stainless steel barrel, which comes in a Matte Stainless Steel Finish, and are made out of 410 Stainless Steel. They come in a variety of gas systems, profiles, and twists. Interestingly, it is not specifically noted that they are “made in USA” on their product page on PSA’s site. These barrels look like: 2.) The PSA Premium Tier A.)PSA Premium Line – Phosphate Coated. Next is the PSA Premium CL/MP Barrel. It is forged using 4150v chrome molly vanadium steel. While it is a great steel, and very durable, it is not the best on the market because it is not hammer forged in my opinion. That said, it is still leaps and bounds above what we were using as far as steel is concerned when compared to the WWII era M1 Garand's and M1 Carbines, and 1903's, so knowing how good those rifles were/are, these are even better in some ways metallurgically in my opinion. These too will come in a phosphate coating. They also have chrome lined bores usually. These barrels look like this: B.)PSA Premium Line – Stainless Steel. The PSA Premium Line stainless steel are usually marked with PSA or Palmetto markings and are *NOT* cold hammer forged barrels. They are made from 416R Stainless Steel, and come in various twist rates and chambers. These barrels look like this: C.)PSA Premium Line – Nitride coated. The PSA Premium line nitride coated barrels are made from 4150v Chrome molly vanadium steel and are nitride coated. They will generally be marked with the twist, chamber, and a PSA or Palmetto, in a manner that appears to be laser etched. These barrels look like this (Note the variation in finish brightness and color): 3.) The PSA Freedom Tier. Next is the PSA Freedom series of barrels. These barrels are what I would consider a mid-line series of barrels. There is nothing wrong with a mid-line series of barrels, and they will stand up to anything that most enthusiasts can put them through with ease. A.)Freedom Nitride barrels: These are 4150v chrome molly vanadium steel barrels that are nitride or melonited... they are not Chrome Lined (CL) and only the nitriding/meloniting is the only coating that they have. They are marked with PSA Freedom and caliber/chamber along with twist rate in what appears to be a laser-etched manner. These Barrels look like this: B.)Freedom Stainless Steel barrels: These barrels are made from 416 stainless steel, and are not coated at all in anything. The Stainless finish is not Matte, but rather a lightly polished or bright stainless finish. They also are not cold hammer forged. They come in a variety of twists from 1/7 to 1/8 and 1/9 and are marked with a PSA Freedom, or just FREEDOM markings, with the twist, chamber/caliber all engraved into the barrel. These barrels look like this: The PSA unmarked/ PTAC line: The PSA unmarked or PTAC line is considered entry level. Generally it is unmarked other than the twist, and caliber. These may have PTAC marked on them, or they may not be labeled at all. These barrels come in a nitride /melonited finish or a phosphorous finish. They do not have any barrel lining, and usually are 1/9 or 1/7 twist, but may not be limited to those twist rates. These barrels pricing can vary depending on sale, and market at the time. ****It is important to note, some folks believe that unlined barrels are much more accurate than Chrome Lined barrels, so barrels without lining are not necessarily a bad thing. **** These barrels look like this: Nitrided Phosphated Barrel Pricing PSA barrels vary in pricing a good bit due to PSA’s ability to sales, and availability, so having a “defined” pricing structure can be hard to list. However, I have attempted to give general ranges on these barrels here below. Remember the prices may change and may not even fall within the range below but use it as you see fit, these prices are also not their sale pricing, but rather full retail prices:
Stainless Barrels are roughly 149.00 as normal retail value. Nitride/Melonited for 129.00 as for normal retail value. PTAC barrels for around 109.00 or lower. Of course price and options vary. I didn’t go into front sight block options, barrel profiles, etc. However, those alone vary so much it is not even funny... and the materials they are made out of do not really matter as they use the same barrels listed above regardless of barrel profile and sight block options. This is a work in progress, and as such is imperfect. I appreciate any assistance, corrections or insight that you may have and welcome corrections/help with this topic thread. ---======= Updates and Revisions =======--- *Initially posted 3/15/17 -Gamecock Operator. |
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This post reserved for future edits.
Also, if psa chooses to sticky this if they feel it is accurate enough for doing so it is appreciated and wellcomed. thanks |
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Is there any evidence at all that there's a difference between the "PSA Premium Line – Nitride coated" that you wrote about and the "Freedom line- Nitride"? As far as I know, PSA has never made that distinction.
If you're going by the rollmark alone, I believe those examples you have pictured for "PSA Premium Line – Nitride coated" are actually just freedom barrels. I bought a freedom branded 20" rifle kit with that rollmark (the white one that doesn't actually say "freedom", just "PSA"). |
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Is there any evidence at all that there's a difference between the "PSA Premium Line – Nitride coated" that you wrote about and the "Freedom line- Nitride"? As far as I know, PSA has never made that distinction. If you're going by the rollmark alone, I believe those examples you have pictured for "PSA Premium Line – Nitride coated" are actually just freedom barrels. I bought a freedom branded 20" rifle kit with that rollmark (the white one that doesn't actually say "freedom", just "PSA"). View Quote you may very well be right on that, but i believed that they had produced some that said PSA on them instead of Freedom in the nitride lineup. hence the distinction. Lets hope that PSA or others like yourself can provide evidence either way of it being there or not. I viewed this thread as a work in progress by posting it now, and with help of yourself and others i hope we can get a very accurate thread going.. too many folks dont know the difference between PTAC and CHF. |
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I've PMed them a question about it so we'll see but as far as I know, #2c doesn't exist.
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A lot of good info in there, but has the CHF/Nitrided line been used enough to put it on top of their FN premium CL barrels (non CHF)?
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Wilson Arms or Wilson Combat ? I know they carried Wilson combat barrels, I bought one in 300 blk, but it was labeled Wilson combat.
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Don't worry, I'm not ignoring your IM, but I need more concrete information before I can verify what you're saying. Thanks for your patience! View Quote take your time. it took me a while to write it all so i expect i'll need to revise with more accurate information because im sure i have gotten a lot wrong. |
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A lot of good info in there, but has the CHF/Nitrided line been used enough to put it on top of their FN premium CL barrels (non CHF)? View Quote well cold hammer forged barrels is the top tier. period. Nitride coatings are durable, and have proven their worth throughout the years on other things such as glock's Tennifer process which is nothing more than a ferritic nitrocarburizing process that is trademarked/proprietary names of a salt bath nitriding process. |
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well cold hammer forged barrels is the top tier. period. Nitride coatings are durable, and have proven their worth throughout the years on other things such as glock's Tennifer process which is nothing more than a ferritic nitrocarburizing process that is trademarked/proprietary names of a salt bath nitriding process. View Quote A pistol slide and a rifle barrel are entirely different things, and also these barrels are brand new and untested, with next to no information available about them. You're saying that's better than the current issue US military M16/M4 barrel as produced by FN. As for CHF, FN has been doing it for however long. A million years give or take. PSA has just begun doing it. It's an unknown, and that certainly doesn't mean it just gets the benefit of the doubt. I have Both FN products and they're great barrels, I have a few Freedom barrels and they're good barrels too. Don't know where the PSA CHF barrel fits in, I haven't even seen one. |
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I'm not saying they may not turn out to be great products, they may very well be great barrels. I do however think its a little early to put them over the proven FN barrels that they have been producing for the military for years strictly based on the process that is used to produce them. A stock Mini-14 and stock 10/22 come with CHF barrels and I don't think too many people would say that those are top tier barrels. Just my opinion.
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A pistol slide and a rifle barrel are entirely different things, and also these barrels are brand new and untested, with next to no information available about them. You're saying that's better than the current issue US military M16/M4 barrel as produced by FN. As for CHF, FN has been doing it for however long. A million years give or take. PSA has just begun doing it. It's an unknown, and that certainly doesn't mean it just gets the benefit of the doubt. I have Both FN products and they're great barrels, I have a few Freedom barrels and they're good barrels too. Don't know where the PSA CHF barrel fits in, I haven't even seen one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
A pistol slide and a rifle barrel are entirely different things, and also these barrels are brand new and untested, with next to no information available about them. You're saying that's better than the current issue US military M16/M4 barrel as produced by FN. As for CHF, FN has been doing it for however long. A million years give or take. PSA has just begun doing it. It's an unknown, and that certainly doesn't mean it just gets the benefit of the doubt. I have Both FN products and they're great barrels, I have a few Freedom barrels and they're good barrels too. Don't know where the PSA CHF barrel fits in, I haven't even seen one. They are, but nitriding and meloniting arent exactly new was my point. I do see and understand your point as well, and i'm not saying that im right or wrong. Part of the reason for this thread, is to get the true answers and have them in one spot for most folks who can use a simple google search. I am saying that a CHF barrel is better than a non chf barrel regardless of manufacturer, yes. Furthermore, we dont have definitive proof that PSA or another supplier is making those barrels for PSA. it is assumed PSA owns the forge, but it could be a different manufacturer who is making them for psa, and that manufacturer could be very highly respected were we to know it just as FN is. I am not saying that a premium non FN barrel is any better or any worse than then premium FN barrels. I too have had both FN products they are great barrels for sure. are they the best on the market, well thats a matter of opinion. the object here i feel is to know the lineup, pricing, and materials that PSA has used, so that folks know what tehy're buying and why they choose to buy it. Quoted:
I'm not saying they may not turn out to be great products, they may very well be great barrels. I do however think its a little early to put them over the proven FN barrels that they have been producing for the military for years strictly based on the process that is used to produce them. A stock Mini-14 and stock 10/22 come with CHF barrels and I don't think too many people would say that those are top tier barrels. Just my opinion. see my comments higher up in this reply as to my thoughts on the Chf barrels. I was not putting them over FN produced CHF, but am over FN non CHF, as FN non chf is made to mil-spec, and that as we all know means the bare minimum that the military will accept in quality and strenght for dollar value. I do personally (and this may be where the issue is/lies) value CHF barrels over others, for longivity of life. With nitriding instead of chrome lining, the CHF nitride may be in fact more accurate than the FN Chrome lined CHF barrels, only time will tell. Ultimately, i think it doesnt matter what most people will classify them as, but rather what Palmetto State Armory classifies them as. which is why im eager to see their input on this thread. As for the mini14 and stock 1022 yes, i would say those are top tier. there is a reason they dont use standard 4150v steel on those, and a reason the 10/22 cost 240.00 some odd dollars versus a marlin 60's 160.00 some odd dollars. Thanks for your help guys, and please dont look at this as adversarial discussion when i intend it to be a getting to the "facts" of the PSA barrel lineup and materials. |
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RE: PSA 16" M4 NITRIDE 1:7 MOE BLK FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG & CH - 508045
So the above would not be a Freedom Barrel, even though it states FREEDOM UPPER? I purchased this one thinking it came with the Freedom Barrel (FREEDOM UPPER), but it came with the PSA unmarker/ PTAC Barrel (5.56 NATO 1/7). Wish they had better specs on the listings..... P.S. Great job on this post...................... |
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RE: PSA 16" M4 NITRIDE 1:7 MOE BLK FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG & CH - 508045 So the above would not be a Freedom Barrel, even though it states FREEDOM UPPER? I purchased this one thinking it came with the Freedom Barrel (FREEDOM UPPER), but it came with the PSA unmarker/ PTAC Barrel (5.56 NATO 1/7). Wish they had better specs on the listings..... P.S. Great job on this post...................... View Quote As a rule of thumb, PSA has stated in the past that if it doesnt say it, its not it on the descriptions of their pages. That said, i dont know how to answer that question from them because of the fact it stated freedom in the title, but the barrel is not so marked. I know that these listings /ratings are fluid and may be that things are still being solidified inside PSA which may explain why they are taking time to research and get us all the facts for this thead. Thank you for the compliments on the thread. it wasnt as easy as the lowers was when i started it, and i've learned alot about ferro nitriding lol |
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Definitely not taking it as adversarial as I would like to know this myself. PSA sells the CHF Nitrided barrels for only slightly more than the Freedom barrels and less than the FN non CHF barrels, so if they are gonna put them at a quality level above the FN non CHF that would be good info to have.
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Definitely not taking it as adversarial as I would like to know this myself. PSA sells the CHF Nitrided barrels for only slightly more than the Freedom barrels and less than the FN non CHF barrels, so if they are gonna put them at a quality level above the FN non CHF that would be good info to have. View Quote I noticed the pricing being very good for CHF as well. I'd wager because of the nitrideing they are more accurate but without definitive tests by professionals idk. we would also need to know torture tests of them. I still believe that NonCHF < CHF. |
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RE: PSA 16" M4 NITRIDE 1:7 MOE BLK FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG & CH - 508045 So the above would not be a Freedom Barrel, even though it states FREEDOM UPPER? I purchased this one thinking it came with the Freedom Barrel (FREEDOM UPPER), but it came with the PSA unmarker/ PTAC Barrel (5.56 NATO 1/7). Wish they had better specs on the listings..... P.S. Great job on this post...................... View Quote |
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Looks like this thread (post) may have just opened a can of worms for PSA.
How many others thought they were getting a Freedom Barrel because PSA advertises it as a Freedom Upper? |
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I heard DC machine in Summerville makes their freedom barrels..?..?
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RE: PSA 16" M4 NITRIDE 1:7 MOE BLK FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG & CH - 508045 So the above would not be a Freedom Barrel, even though it states FREEDOM UPPER? I purchased this one thinking it came with the Freedom Barrel (FREEDOM UPPER), but it came with the PSA unmarker/ PTAC Barrel (5.56 NATO 1/7). Wish they had better specs on the listings..... P.S. Great job on this post...................... View Quote Wolfman, is the rollmark on your barrel engraved or laser etched? That seems to make a difference (PTAC has the caliber/twist engraved). FWIW, I've bought two nitride M4 uppers in the last year. One was a Freedom upper and the barrel is etched "Freedom". The other upper did not mention Freedom in the description. That upper is etched and does not have "Freedom" or "PSA", just caliber and twist. With nitride/melonite a relatively new product for PSA, I wonder how durable these barrels will be, particularly with bi-metal bullets? |
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I just ordered one of these yesterday. I haven't received it yet, so I cannot confirm barrel markings, but I assumed that since the title described it as a Freedom Upper that it has a Freedom barrel. Is it possible that not all Freedom barrels are marked "Freedom"? I don't want a PTAC barrel. If I had wanted that I would have ordered a PTAC upper. PSA needs to start clarifying the specs on their listings. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I just ordered one of these yesterday. I haven't received it yet, so I cannot confirm barrel markings, but I assumed that since the title described it as a Freedom Upper that it has a Freedom barrel. Is it possible that not all Freedom barrels are marked "Freedom"? I don't want a PTAC barrel. If I had wanted that I would have ordered a PTAC upper. PSA needs to start clarifying the specs on their listings. One of the reasons i wanted to do a barrel thread, is because of the issues with differentiating what exactly each barrel is. The uppers receivers may pose another topic to be addressed at a later date. I believe it is entirely quite possible that some freedom barrels are not Marked Freedom. I think that is horrible planning and execution on a marketing side as folks just dont know what theyre buying. I have had both freedom and PTAC, as well as premium and CHF, all are great barrels in their own right, that said, I'm a firm believer that you should get what you pay for, and what you order. Only PSA can answer if the Freedom Upper is an Unmarked Freedom Barrel though. Quoted:
Looks like this thread (post) may have just opened a can of worms for PSA. How many others thought they were getting a Freedom Barrel because PSA advertises it as a Freedom Upper? remember, before we go jumping to conclusions, this is ****MY**** Interpretation. the purpose of this thread is to get PSA, and others experiences to form a definitive listing of their lineup.. .but most importantly we are hoping to have a VERY ACCURATE listing of their barrel lineup. Quoted:
I heard DC machine in Summerville makes their freedom barrels..?..? Quoted:
First, thanks to GamecockOperator for trying to sort out the PSA barrels and markings. Wolfman, is the rollmark on your barrel engraved or laser etched? That seems to make a difference (PTAC has the caliber/twist engraved). FWIW, I've bought two nitride M4 uppers in the last year. One was a Freedom upper and the barrel is etched "Freedom". The other upper did not mention Freedom in the description. That upper is etched and does not have "Freedom" or "PSA", just caliber and twist. With nitride/melonite a relatively new product for PSA, I wonder how durable these barrels will be, particularly with bi-metal bullets? I've seen freedom barrels also have it etched. so i dont think that laser etched necessarily denotes ptac/freedom. So your second upper is just a PSA unmarked nitride upper and barrel setup.. hmm... That is a good question about the durability. only time and torture tests will tell. It may be time to get a bunch of shooting in on them lol |
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So your second upper is just a PSA unmarked nitride upper and barrel setup.. hmm... View Quote The rifle will shoot 2.7" groups with Wolf Gold at 100 yards, using a red dot sight (about the best my 50 year old eyes can do). I bought a case of Tulammo for $200 that PSA was selling after the election. I plan to run the case through the barrel this spring/summer and see how it does afterwards. |
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Looks the same as the 300 BLK (except for caliber) in the photo under "C. PSA Premium Line-Nitride Coated". The rifle will shoot 2.7" groups with Wolf Gold at 100 yards, using a red dot sight (about the best my 50 year old eyes can do). I bought a case of Tulammo for $200 that PSA was selling after the election. I plan to run the case through the barrel this spring/summer and see how it does afterwards. View Quote |
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RE: PSA 16" M4 NITRIDE 1:7 MOE BLK FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG & CH - 508045 So the above would not be a Freedom Barrel, even though it states FREEDOM UPPER? I purchased this one thinking it came with the Freedom Barrel (FREEDOM UPPER), but it came with the PSA unmarker/ PTAC Barrel (5.56 NATO 1/7). Wish they had better specs on the listings..... P.S. Great job on this post...................... View Quote Received this today. It is etched with caliber and twist. No other markings like "Freedom", or anything else. On a side note I could not find any forge markings on the receiver either. The receiver is etched with the PSA logo though. |
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Is your's the same as mine "PSA 16" M4 NITRIDE 1:7 MOE BLK FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG & CH - 508045"? Pic of Forge Marking on mine: http://i.imgur.com/7HOxGJD.jpg View Quote |
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Yes. Same item number. It has no forge mark at all. View Quote "The forge mark denotes which forge house makes the lump of aluminum that is later machined, by someone else, into an upper receiver. The forging is a raw material and it is fungible. All of the upper receivers we use are 7075 T6 aluminum forgings, and can come from any one of a half a dozen US forging houses that supply the industry, Anchor Harvey included. The quality of the forging becomes evident in the machining and finishing of the receiver, as machining and coloring can reveal inconsistencies in the alloy. The machining house culls any subpar forgings and recycles them. While rare, it happens with all of the houses, especially during times of high demand as the forge houses rush to put out all they can. As the forge house has absolutely no control over the machining and finishing of the receiver, the forge mark, while familiar and good for trivial knowledge, has little to do with the quality of the finished product. We do not specify which forge house makes the uppers in the description. The uppers may be marked Anchor Harvey, Brass Aluminum, or others, or not at all. That the particular upper in the photo had an AH mark is just luck of the draw. Our blems are just that, blemishes in the finish - scratches, and other external cosmetic issues that do not affect function. We stand behind our products with a lifetime warranty against defects in materials or workmanship. If you are not happy with the upper please contact customer service directly for a return." Read through the whole post, seems if your not happy with not having a forge mark on your upper you can try to get it replaced with one that does. Source: http://www.akfiles . com/forums/showthread.php?t=278819 |
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Seems some do have forge marks and some don't. "The forge mark denotes which forge house makes the lump of aluminum that is later machined, by someone else, into an upper receiver. The forging is a raw material and it is fungible. All of the upper receivers we use are 7075 T6 aluminum forgings, and can come from any one of a half a dozen US forging houses that supply the industry, Anchor Harvey included. The quality of the forging becomes evident in the machining and finishing of the receiver, as machining and coloring can reveal inconsistencies in the alloy. The machining house culls any subpar forgings and recycles them. While rare, it happens with all of the houses, especially during times of high demand as the forge houses rush to put out all they can. As the forge house has absolutely no control over the machining and finishing of the receiver, the forge mark, while familiar and good for trivial knowledge, has little to do with the quality of the finished product. We do not specify which forge house makes the uppers in the description. The uppers may be marked Anchor Harvey, Brass Aluminum, or others, or not at all. That the particular upper in the photo had an AH mark is just luck of the draw. Our blems are just that, blemishes in the finish - scratches, and other external cosmetic issues that do not affect function. We stand behind our products with a lifetime warranty against defects in materials or workmanship. If you are not happy with the upper please contact customer service directly for a return." Read through the whole post, seems if your not happy with not having a forge mark on your upper you can try to get it replaced with one that does. Source: http://www.akfiles . com/forums/showthread.php?t=278819 View Quote I'm not at all concerned with it. It was just an observation. I've never received one without a forge mark before. As long as it functions as intended I'll consider it gtg. Thanks for the info though. Hopefully PSA will chime in soon with some info on the barrel markings. |
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I just received a Freedom upper .625 barrel nitride, and it's laser etched.
Maybe PSA sells what they proclaim to sell, and some of their different barrel people mark stuff differently for different stuff? I was not surprised that my .625 was laser etched, given it's so small anyway. |
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well i believe most nitrided marked barrels will be lasered.. but what you are saying is quite plausible.
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I would have thought they would have responded by now. It does bother me a little bit that they don't really know what they are selling. Not enough to not use them again, but still concerning.
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I would have thought they would have responded by now. It does bother me a little bit that they don't really know what they are selling. Not enough to not use them again, but still concerning. View Quote Here's what I asked them (2nd request): Can you please answer the following questions on my "Freedom Upper" I purchased: Which barrel (PTAC/PSA, Freedom) did I received with my order? What is a "Freedom Upper" that does not include a Freedom Barrel? Could you please explain what a "Freedom Upper" is? Once again, thank you for your assistance on this matter. I ques they feel if they ignore it, it will go away......lol |
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I would have thought they would have responded by now. It does bother me a little bit that they don't really know what they are selling. Not enough to not use them again, but still concerning. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I would have thought they would have responded by now. It does bother me a little bit that they don't really know what they are selling. Not enough to not use them again, but still concerning. Quoted:
I feel the same. I have been emailing PSA about this and asking them which barrel I have (PTAC/PSA, Freedom) and they will NOT reply to the question, they just state that I received the correct barrel. Here's what I asked them (2nd request): Can you please answer the following questions on my "Freedom Upper" I purchased: Which barrel (PTAC/PSA, Freedom) did I received with my order? What is a "Freedom Upper" that does not include a Freedom Barrel? Could you please explain what a "Freedom Upper" is? Once again, thank you for your assistance on this matter. I ques they feel if they ignore it, it will go away......lol i hav ea feeling a lot of the reason for not answering yet may be because of non-disclosure agreements maybe? idk. we can hope that in time they will set this thread straight, and make the proper changes to make this a definitive thread for years to come. |
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I received another freedom upper today in fde. The barrel was etched the same as the last one I got. I have a midlength freedom upper I got a couple of years ago. I'm going to pull it out and check it. It's stainless though, so I expect the markings will be different. On a side note the upper I received today was missing the ziptie they always put through the receiver and bolt. I've never received one without the ziptie from them. It's my understanding that the color of the ziptie signifies the person who inspected it.
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I don't think there is much of any difference between their nitride barrels as I think they're all made by DC Machines.
No proof of this, just heard through the grapevine. |
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I don't think there is much of any difference between their nitride barrels as I think they're all made by DC Machines. No proof of this, just heard through the grapevine. View Quote |
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I don't think there is much of any difference between their nitride barrels as I think they're all made by DC Machines. No proof of this, just heard through the grapevine. View Quote PSA will have to chime in with what the physical differences are between premium and ptac and freedom. I had originally thought it was in marking alone, (less manufacturing effort (marginally) and thus less expensive, but if they are all the same steel, same coatings, same twists, about the only thing i can think of would be testings on the metal, such as MPI that maybe is the value difference? look back in the 40's we had the Postal Meter company, and IBM making barrels/ rifles so im sure the quality is there regardless what line, and price-point, that said, Only PSA can truly speak to the rhyme and reason on the barrel naming conventions, and thats if they will, as some of this may be NDA's prohibitive. |
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What I've noticed, generally, between the PTAC, Freedom and PSA nitride/melonite barrels:
PTAC are chrome-moly (4140 steel); Freedom are chrome-moly and chrome-moly vanadium (4150), READ the description for a particular upper; PSA (Freedom not in the description) are chrome-moly vanadium. |
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The fact that PSA themselves won't publish sources and differences for their vast array of barrels continues to be one of the most hilarious things in the gun industry.
Buying or selling a used PSA rifle used to be easy. You knew what you were getting and the specs were solid. Not so much anymore. |
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Quoted:
What I've noticed, generally, between the PTAC, Freedom and PSA nitride/melonite barrels: PTAC are chrome-moly (4140 steel); Freedom are chrome-moly and chrome-moly vanadium (4150), READ the description for a particular upper; PSA (Freedom not in the description) are chrome-moly vanadium. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
What I've noticed, generally, between the PTAC, Freedom and PSA nitride/melonite barrels: PTAC are chrome-moly (4140 steel); Freedom are chrome-moly and chrome-moly vanadium (4150), READ the description for a particular upper; PSA (Freedom not in the description) are chrome-moly vanadium. Quoted:
The fact that PSA themselves won't publish sources and differences for their vast array of barrels continues to be one of the most hilarious things in the gun industry. Buying or selling a used PSA rifle used to be easy. You knew what you were getting and the specs were solid. Not so much anymore. |
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I agree that PSA doesn't have to disclose who manufactures their barrels, but I do think they have a responsibility to disclose exactly what it is you're buying as far as quality differences between the different lines. Their silence leads me to believe that there really is no difference between ptac and freedom as far as quality. Hopefully I'm wrong, because I have been spending a little more $$$ on the freedom line thinking it was mid grade quality, as opposed to bottom shelf ptac. I had heard a rumor awhile back that the ptac line was cheaper simply because they were assembled using essentially blem components, or components that the finish didn't make the grade, but when I contacted PSA to verify they did not respond. If ptac is in fact their "blem" line then I have no problem paying a little more for the same quality (decent, but somehow not quite up to snuff), but in a non blem state. I really wish they would speak up and put this to rest.
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PTAC are chrome-moly (4140 steel); Freedom are chrome-moly and chrome-moly vanadium (4150), READ the description for a particular upper; PSA (Freedom not in the description) are chrome-moly vanadium. View Quote This is confusing. |
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