In another thread I asked if anyone had seen a buttstock monopod based on a cam.  I didn't have a prototype, so, I guess the description wasn't clear enough and I didn't get any replies.

So, I built a prototype out of my rifle and piece of scrap hardboard and some junkie bolts laying around the garage.  Has anyone seen an instantly and continually hand-adjustable eccentric-based buttstock monopod.  Ultimately this is to NOT be screwed to the buttstock, but rather, to one of those rubber butt plate add-ons.

It's rough.  But you can get the idea from the pictures below:

Eccentric Monopod in stored state (could be on either side of the buttstock:



Partially deployed:



Fully deployed:



Of course, it couldn't be made out of hardboard and wingnuts.  It's probably be plastic and would need some sort of rubber edging to make the edge stick to a table top and such.  And, some of the oval could be be cut away, that portion that doesn't touch the ground.  

Also, using my rifle as a guide the oval could be larger which would allow depressing of the muzzle (again, this is a junk prototype).

Finally, it could be attached to the far side of the buttstock, or, both.  

If the rifle's on a bipod (don't be criticizing my choice of bipods now) the weapon could be shouldered, an approximate sight-in could be made, the left hand could deploy the eccentric monopod and make fine adjustments and finally lock down the position with a cam lock of some sort that we so often see on picatinny rails.

If built right the monopod would stay in position between shots and allow followup shots.  Or, it could be finely adjusted to adjust fire.

So, what do you guys think of this infinitely, easily and finely adjustable buttstock monopod idea.

Best,

LF

Sorry about the magazine and the safety.  I was dry firing it on an empty mag when my wife found time to take some pics.

Best,

LF

....so what does this do that a rear bag won't?  I made one out of a pant leg, works just fine and probably cost me less than $10

< Keep the BS posts in GD, this is a tech forum - F >

It will weigh next to nothing and it rides on the rifle vs. in the bag; i.e., it's rifle-portable.

Best,

LF

Why is it cammed?

How else could you adjust height? Besides squeezing the aforementioned sandbag.

Why would I want that terrible old school bi pod and some big eccentric disk attached to my light, handy maneuverable  carbine, when I can get in the prone and monopod with my 30 rd magazine, and get excellent hits.


And I would rather run a Harris bi pod on a SPR rig and get way better results.

Interesting concept. However trying for better accuracy when you have that chi-com clip on bipod, attached to the bbl. Defeats any thing you're trying to achieve.

Wow did anyone actually read the OP? I think this is an interesting idea but needs a lot of refinement

 
Exactly. Thanks for clarifying. I guess I should have asked ”Why use the elliptical shape?”.

In on Page 1!

I think the reason he made it elliptical would be so that you could move slightly forward or backward while behind the rifle to easily change elevation.

Think of it like those drive-on elliptical trailer jacks.

I tried a circular shape but the oval was more space efficient.

The oval shape was chosen so as to keep the profile slimmer.  An acentric (hole not in middle) circular shape with a diameter the same as the longest dimension of the oval works too but it's a lot larger.

In particular, a substantial portion of a circle of that diameter extends beyond the butt when it's not deployed.  And, it would extend beyond the butt cap too if this device was attached to one and sold as such.  That prevents you from shouldering the weapon unless it's partially deployed as it's in the way of the shoulder.

Best,

LF

Yep.

LF

I understand your comments, and, thanks.  But this setup including the front bipod is essentially a tripod for the rifle vs. either a magazine monopod used without a front bipod (haven't tried that myself to see if it works as well as you suggest it does) or a bipod.

Honestly, I've not fired using one of the Israeli buttpad monopods with a bipod, yet, as I don't own one and they're expensive.  Plus I understand they only fit well on two of the Israeli butt stocks which together might cost a couple of hundred dollars or more.  Lastly, I don't particularly like buying non-USA items and I know many of you feel the same (at least for now, Israel is not in the USA).

But from what I've read about all buttstock pole-type monopods which attach tightly to the stock they're more accurate than using a bipod alone.  

But I also understand that the pole-type bipods require both primary rough adjustment and secondary fine adjustments.  Because of its shape this oval buttpad monopod can achieve rough and fine adjustment at the same time with the same continuous quick movement.  No more tedious adjusting a turnscrew.  Hence my interest in this design.

Best,

LF

Indeed, the drive-on trailer jacks and similar jacks I've seen used in racing pits to change the tires of race cars was the inspiration of this device.  I had a picture of such a jack in the first post about this idea but it didn't seem to convey the idea well enough to get any replies.

I guess I can conclude that no one who replied has ever seen anything like this in the market?

Best,

LF

The oval monopod idea is independent of the type of bipod used.  Use the one that you favor, of course.

Chicom bipod, eh?  Now be nice.

At the risk of derailing the intent of this thread that' a genuine US issue Vietnam era bipod and I have one for both of my ARs.  I got them both in non-issue condition for less than $35 with the original brand new carry case.  If they'd have come with the original cleaning kit they'd have been a bit of a collector's item.

BTW, the "Chicom" bipod

1)  shoots better and is much simpler to use than sandbags particularly when it's clipped to the bottom picatinny rail of the free floated handguard where it touches only the rubber rail protector.
2)  is more easily adjusted than bags as it has three attachment points on the rifle, a) the M4 style barrel with the grenade launcher cut out, b) under the FSP and c) also on the picatinny rail.  Each point of attachment yields a different weapon height.
3) weighs almost nothing
4) costs maybe 15% of one of those fancy bipods.
5) clips on and off without any muss or fuss.
6) came with a carry pouch with a belt clip that can hold cleaning supplies and a multi-piece, screw-together cleaning rod that could be used to clear FTEs.

I can't imagine that a fancy one could shoot much better.  But then I don't own one and don't intend to own one as they're so costly and heavy.  I'd prefer to keep my rifle as light as possible.

Anyway, it works for me and I like the vintage look.  Finally, I used one just like it to excellent effect while I was in the service now more than 40 years ago.  So, like the AR15 platform seems entirely familiar to me so too does the clip on bipod.

I'm not so stuck in my ways that I can't change.  I just don't see the need to spend a lot of money on bipod that will be little-used as I don't intend to shoot competitively.

Best,

LF

I can't imagine that you could put too much forward pressure on that bipod an have it remain stable/attached.



I do like the rear monopod idea though, especially if it were QD or easily removed.



 

While i understand your "points" IMO trying to achieve something that would have benefit towards more accurate / stable shooting is defeated by a "bi-pod" that as mentioned. cannot handle forward pressure (like used on rail mounted bi-pods. Under fire as the bbl heats up. The potential for different POI is increased.
Regarding wanting to use U.S. parts, discounting the "Israeli" stuff. The Israeli stuff has been battle tested for decades. Also there are things made in the U.S that don't hold a candle to "imported" items.
No get back to refining the elliptical rear mount.

Good point about the forward pressure.  It tolerates a bit but I think less than one of the more advanced bipods.

Also, I like the QD idea.  But not sure how to lock down a QD type attachment.  Maybe there's a way to do so that I don't know.

Best,

LF

Heres a free idea someone can pay me back for later


Titanium or aluminum monopod spike/pin that has a quick release button to deploy and is stored in a proprietary buttpad. Make buttpad cross compatible with several popular brands and oem ar15 stocks. Could easily make it telescopic for adjustment. Put a small foot on it or offer it seperate for those that might want it.

I dont have time to work on it.


I like OP's direction though. Skeletonize the device......maybe make it just an arc that has diffent stops on a travel rail to where it clicks into place. It could ratchet and lock and a button could release the tension to change the position......kind of like a leg just pulling down and click locking along the way. Just my two cents.

I think it's a solid idea, and in a more fleshed out form would be a nice addition to a SPR/sniper rig.  Like someone said, I probably wouldn't put it on a general purpose carbine... but I'd put it on anything I'd put a bipod on.  

Good idea!

You read my mind about the skeletonized monopod and essentially using a leg in the shape of an arc.

Regarding the spike/pin rear monopod, that's pretty much what's already available from the MAKO FAB group:

FAB Defense Butt Pad Monopod

But it works only with two of their stocks and won't fit others.

There's also another from GMC which has gotten pretty poor reviews because it fits contemporary butt stocks poorly:

GMC Butt Pad Monopod

The problem with both of these is that they can be roughly positioned easily enough but then to get the fine adjustment the shooter has to manipulate a turn screw.  Users complain that this is tedious and that after the first shot on anything but a hard surface they have to again adjust it tediously.

The elliptical monopod, by virtue of using an arc could be both rough and fine adjusted in the same motion by hand and without any sort of turn screw and then if the first shot disturbed the ground and took the rife out of synch with the target resetting it would be as quick and simple as setting it up for the first shot.

Best,

LF

meh

wrong setup for the wrong rifle, unless you just like plinking off the bench with a m4 clone.

Imo very inefficient design, you're trying to rationalize function for cost

A gripod in the ee is 25 bucks

if you want a cheap ass monopod, go get a 4/6" 3/8 stove bolt, attach nut to the stock/butpad/where ever you like it. That will cost right at 50 cents

you would spend way less than your original rig and its a hellofa lot more sturdy

Huh?

You sound angry.

And, who's meh?

Oh, I just figured this out.  You too don't like my VN era bipod.   That's fine.  I've not asked you to like it.

It's enough that I like it.  And, I like it because I liked it 40 years ago and because it works for what I need it to do.  If you didn't quite catch it (sometimes I think 90% of the poster here read only the first post in a thread) the bipod I used in the photo has nothing whatsoever to do with the elliptical monopod idea.  It's only an issue now because my wife didn't focus correctly on the butt of the weapon as I'd asked her.

In the thread on dry firing you belittled me thinking of another way to simulate the firing of a semiautomatic rifle during dry firing while slung up.  And, you said a newbie shouldn't be thinking of new ideas and just do it the "old ways".  Now with the VN era bipod I'm doing it the old way and you don't like that either.

Sir, explain yourself.  And, I hope it's more than "Get off my lawn!!!"

I really hate it when some "person" jumps into a thread that is otherwise leading to a meaningful discussion and perhaps to a desirable conclusion with everyone learning something just to make trouble and piss people off.

Best,

LF

Interesting idea. But could probably be slimmed down considerably by likening it to a hard cam on a cam bow.

It could be made easily minutely adjustable if it was an arc style by using a handcuff style locking mechanism with a push button release. As you drop the arc down (lifting the butt higher and making the barrel lower) it could click into place and not be allowed to lift up (lowering the butt and raising the barrel) without pushing a button it. It would be quite simple and rely more on body motion.

You could then account for horizontal movement but allowing it to rotate as well.

I hope I am getting my point across.

I can see the downside to my idea though being the travel allowance between "clicks" as it moves up and down.

What about a long bolt that cams down instead of the ellipse. As it changes angle, it will still support the rear of the gun until its at the maximum height of 90 degrees. If it can be clamped at say 30 or 40 degrees or whatever then you have all the adjustment you need for a rear monopod.

It may slim things up a bit.

An interesting proof-of concept, with some refinement you could be on to something.  I think if you could build a stock with this built in, designed more around a purpose-built rifle (i.e. SPR), such as a fixed A1/2 style stock or the PRS, it could be pretty interesting.

One could probably modify a Cav C1 stock to a more refined, but rudimentary prototype.  The cam could store inside the stock, and it wouldn't stick out so much.



This would be an interesting refinement, and might be worth looking into if one had the resources.

Per DK-Prof in GD:

Oops.

He's gone.