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Posted: 11/17/2014 3:13:03 PM EST
I have never had this happen before with factory ammunition. 150gr gonna supersonic. Not happy. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 3:29:37 PM EST
[#1]
That's factory ammo? Looks like some overpressure going on as well judging by the marks on the head/rim. I would pull a round and weigh the charge.
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Posted: 11/17/2014 3:34:16 PM EST
[#2]
Yep, really looks like overpressure. Definitely don't shoot any more of them.
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Posted: 11/17/2014 4:16:03 PM EST
[#3]
What are your guns specs?
I had pierced primers and bad swipes on some Hornady 110gr V-MAX (Whisper) ammo in my AAC factory upper. They told me they were going to change primers and back off the pressure as they were right at max SAAMI pressure. I think manufacturers are trying to squeeze every fps out of the caliber when loading and that is just not wise to me. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 5:10:53 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's factory ammo? Looks like some overpressure going on as well judging by the marks on the head/rim. I would pull a round and weigh the charge. Yes they are brand new factory ammo. I shot about 25 rounds and had about 5 of these plus others that looked a little flat, but I'm not an ammo expert. I don't reload so I don't really have the ability to pull one apart and weigh it. I had jams with it too, fail to feed mostly. Very disappointed. The pistol functions perfectly with the Remington 115gr and Hornaday 110gr. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 5:26:30 PM EST
[#5]
Shit, I just ordered some Fiocchi .300 blackout from Midway... no wonder they were on sale...
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Posted: 11/17/2014 5:40:56 PM EST
[#6]
Contact Fiocchi,they are in Missouri.
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Posted: 11/17/2014 5:49:58 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Contact Fiocchi,they are in Missouri. I was thinking about doing that |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 7:23:22 PM EST
[#8]
primer flash hole is WAY to big .....that's all I got
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Posted: 11/17/2014 7:31:40 PM EST
[#9]
They seemed to have a little more recoil than the 115gr but not a great deal. I just wrote that off to it being a heavier projectile.
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Posted: 11/19/2014 6:45:54 PM EST
[#10]
I had the EXACT same issue as the threadstarter this morning at the range with the exact same ammo. I'm shooting a suppressed 300 blackout AR-15 variant with an 8.5 inch barrel behind a Liberty Freedom 30 caliber suppressor. 2/10 rounds had primers fall out, 1 of which got smashed into the area around the chamber, past the locking lug where the bolt locks up, thus preventing the bolt from going into battery. I had to take it home and remove the smashed primer with hand tools before I could get it running again. aside from the 2 with issues, the other 8 rounds all looked fine - no signs of overpressure or odd primer strikes. I think this Fiocchi ammo just has a wide tolerance on their primer pockets, perhaps. If it was an overpressure problem, I would think the other 8 rounds would have shown signs.
Even your % of blown primers was the same as mine (20%). This is starting to sound like more than a coincidence. Did you buy the ammo from PSA, too? I'm wondering if it's a bad lot, perhaps. |
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Posted: 11/19/2014 8:02:18 PM EST
[#11]
In retrospect, I'm seeing some definite ejector stamping on the rims and maybe slightly flattened primers. I'm thinking this ammo is too hot for my rifle, though I suspect there's some loose primers somewhat at work, as well.
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Posted: 11/20/2014 9:37:15 PM EST
[#12]
Upon pulling 5 bullets from unfired rounds today, whatever powder they are using in there (flakes) ranges anywhere from 15.1 to 15.9 grains, average at 15.4. I have a feeling the primers coming out are on the ones with a little too much powder, though they all seem to be a little hot.
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Posted: 11/21/2014 4:30:05 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
primer flash hole is WAY to big .....that's all I got Flash hole way too big, allowing too much flash too quickly into brass casing, causing pressure spike by having powder ignite too quickly. The holes on my 5.56 look to be about 2/3 this size. Or they could have used a large rifle primer instead of small rifle primer. Lots of different issues going on here. |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 7:59:17 PM EST
[#14]
Had a few of the same with the exact same ammo. Went through 150 rounds and had 4 with blown primers. I didnt have any of the head gouge or marring issues though.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 12:48:59 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Flash hole way too big, allowing too much flash too quickly into brass casing, causing pressure spike by having powder ignite too quickly. The holes on my 5.56 look to be about 2/3 this size. Or they could have used a large rifle primer instead of small rifle primer. Lots of different issues going on here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
primer flash hole is WAY to big .....that's all I got Flash hole way too big, allowing too much flash too quickly into brass casing, causing pressure spike by having powder ignite too quickly. The holes on my 5.56 look to be about 2/3 this size. Or they could have used a large rifle primer instead of small rifle primer. Lots of different issues going on here. I doubt it is just the flash hole size. It maybe powder dependent but the research I've seen for .308 and .223 show larger flash holes increase the range of pressures seen upon firing but the average pressure decreases. I will review the data again. It sounds like too much powder in an attempt to get max velocities or the powder type needs to be changed as it is not suited for this round. Fiocchi usually does not try to have the fastest loads out there. Does anyone have up and lot numbers for the trouble ammo. I will pass it on to a contact at Fiocchi. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 12:52:35 PM EST
[#16]
If they were also failing to feed it sounds like it could be an issue with overall length. Do you have a way to measure? If the bullet jams into the lands of your rifling it causes a dramatic spike in pressure. That's what I would look for... That and pulling a bullet to check charge weight.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 4:53:31 PM EST
[#17]
Looks like Fiocchi specs the ammo out at 1925 fps. Quick look at hodgdon reloading shows that velocity is at or above their max load data for all powders on web site. Nosler doesn't show data for that bullet mass. Sierra shows Lil gun and h4227 as the only powders getting a 150gr bullet up to that speed, and both are close to max loads.
I take back my previous comment. It appears fiocchi is aiming for max velocity. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 5:53:48 PM EST
[#18]
I have the same problem with Fiocchi 150 gr fmj, high pressure signs and blown primers. Tried in two different ARs , going to try in one more then calling Fiocchi.
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:18:29 PM EST
[#19]
Fiocchi manufactures ALL U.S. manufactured 5.7x28 ammunition.
Guess what? IT'S CRAP!!!! By far and away the Federal American Eagle is the worst, the FN SS197 is better but still has issues. There is a YouTube video of the owner of Elite Ammunition breaking down FN SS197 ammo (again, it's Fiocchi) and the powder charges are all over the chart. This is why for my PS90 I will only use FN SS198 (it's Belgium manufactured) |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 5:20:08 PM EST
[#20]
I also had the same problem with the same ammo a couple days ago. I've only tried one other brand of .300 in my upper before these, but the other brand worked fine. Out of the 17 Fiocchi rounds that I fired, 6 had their primers blow out immediately. Another 3 had virtually no resistance when I decapped them in my press. All 9 primer pockets are now too large to hold a new primer. The flash holes do not look any bigger than my once fired 223 and 5.56, though. In the first picture, both cases are Fiocchi, but the case on top blew its primer and the one on the bottom did not. Note the bright ring around the blown case about 1/4 inch above the base. All 9 ruined cases have this bright ring in the same spot. Also, if you look closely, you can see that the extractor groove/cannelure is bulging slightly on the top case. All 6 cases that blew the primers immediately will not fit in the shell holder on my press now. The second picture is the lot number of these rounds. Looks like lot # 0825469017. Seems strange that the first lot was crossed out and then re-stamped. I have 5 more boxes from this lot in addition to the remaining 33 rounds in my first box. I will not shoot any more of these without pulling the bullets and checking/reducing the charge. I hate to throw out powder, but I'll probably have to toss their powder and reload them with my own. If you have any from this lot, I strongly suggest you not use it. I also have 10 boxes of this Fiocchi from another lot. Hopefully they are OK.
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Posted: 12/4/2014 10:13:21 AM EST
[#21]
Did someone mention a good Fiocchi contact? I emailed them earlier this week and explained how this is a serious safety concern, but no reply as of yet. Does anyone have a better means to contact them?
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Posted: 12/4/2014 11:33:45 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did someone mention a good Fiocchi contact? I emailed them earlier this week and explained how this is a serious safety concern, but no reply as of yet. Does anyone have a better means to contact them? I'm watching this, still have 450 rounds of this ammo. If Fiocchi doesn't take care of it, I'm going to pull the bullets and reload with a known good powder charge. A few years ago, Fiocchi .223 with a 50 grain ballistic tip shot like a laser for me, very accurate. That's why this is so disappointing. |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 3:19:59 PM EST
[#23]
I have an undergraduate at college that is doing research with the company. Need to contact him or pass the info to him.
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Posted: 12/5/2014 1:51:02 PM EST
[#24]
I just read that the bright ring near the base is an early indication of case head separation. I looked at the rest of my fired Fiocchi brass and most did have a little bit of that ring, but not as distinct as the ones with the blown primers. They probably won't be good for reloading more than once or twice, if at all. None of the reloaded rounds that I bought from Freedom Munitions have that ring yet, and I know they have all been fired at least twice.
I measured the COAL of the remaining rounds from my first box. All were about 2.05 +- .005. I then pulled the bullets and weighed the individual powder charges before pouring them into a clean jar. The average was about 16 gr with most being very close to that, but some were as low as 15.84 and some as high as 16.16. Some of the rounds had very clumpy powder that had to be scraped out and some poured out easily. I didn't pop out the unfired primers to measure those primer pockets, but I will tonight. The pockets of the fired brass that didn't blow primers are between the go/no go measurements of my pocket gauge, but they aren't as tight as my once-fired Lake City that I swaged. I think they should still work for reloading, as long as the case isn't over-pressurized. I'd hate to waste the powder, so I'm thinking to reload the new cases that I pulled the bullets from with 15 gr of the Fiocchi powder that I collected with the same bullets to the same COAL. That would be a 6.25% reduction in powder. Maybe I should reduce it more? What do you think? Or is that a bad idea all around? Seems like that would be safe, but, like I said, I'm really new to hand loading and I may be missing something important. Thanks, CB |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:04:31 AM EST
[#25]
Got some feedback. From the information I was given it is not an overpressure due to incorrect powder charge. The brass was not heat treated correctly by the supplier/manufacturer of the brass. Fiocchi does not make brass, they buy it. Since the brass is soft, normal pressures show over pressure indicators because it is for the brass, just not the spec for the round.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:58:49 PM EST
[#26]
Just last Thursday I was talking to Troy Potter from Fiocchi. They are willing to work with you on returning the ammo. Great guy to talk to. E-mail him at [email protected]. I had all the same issues everyone is posting about and same lot number as picture posted. FYI ! they will be closing early for the holidays and that's when they are counting inventory. Troy said he could not tell me when they would setup for another run on the 300 blackout, but you can discuss your options. Hope this helps.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:42:33 PM EST
[#27]
Does it affect all .300 blackout ammo produced by Fiocchi or just a particular batch? I have 3 boxes that I have not shot yet.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:11:05 PM EST
[#28]
I had same problem with hornady last year. They sent me 2 new boxes.
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Posted: 12/24/2014 9:19:26 PM EST
[#29]
I am having same experience with this ammo, high pressure and blown primers. Dangerous condition. E-mailed Fiocchi about it no reply, guess they are waiting for a lawsuit. Let me also state that this ammo was tried in 3 differant rifles that had shot other brands and reloads with no problem so don't lecture on chamber dimensions. Pulled bullets on 5 rounds, charge was uniform but bullets are way over crimped. If any one gets the ear of Fiocchi let the boards know.
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Posted: 12/25/2014 1:13:58 PM EST
[#30]
We had this same discussion over at 300BLKTalk.
About half of my first 10 shots blew primers. Long story short, I dissembled the rest of the box and found half of the rounds had clumped up powder that wouldn't pour out of the case when I tried to measure it. Once I got it loosened up, the charges were fairly consistent at 16.0 grains. I reloaded some with a different powder and they all shot fine. I reloaded the rest after dumping the powder, breakling it up and reloading to 15.0 grains. All fired fine without any blown primers. Pulled the bullets, loosened up the powder in all of the cases and reseated the bullets in another box (about half were still clumped up) All fired fine so I did the other 8 boxes. Took about 20 minutes do a box. I notified Fiocchi and never heard a thing. Seems if I'm doing their quality control work for them I should get something 
I'll try the email address for Troy mentioned above. One of the benefits of Fiocchi is getting brass to reload with. All of the reloaded brass has worked fine with super and subsonic loads. The blown primer cases were ruined and I wouldn't recommend trying to reload them unless you like surprise booms. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 1:58:28 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking about doing that Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Contact Fiocchi,they are in Missouri. I was thinking about doing that Do you have the lot number? I just picked up a 500 round box of that a few weeks ago but haven't shot any yet. ETA: I'm late, should have read it all first. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 6:09:55 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have the lot number? I just picked up a 500 round box of that a few weeks ago but haven't shot any yet. ETA: I'm late, should have read it all first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Contact Fiocchi,they are in Missouri. I was thinking about doing that Do you have the lot number? I just picked up a 500 round box of that a few weeks ago but haven't shot any yet. ETA: I'm late, should have read it all first. Yes, I returned mine at their expenseand supposedly they will test it, and then send me replacement plus some extra. I'm going to withhold final judgement till I see how that turns out. If it's good then I will have considered them having made it right and move on. 
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Posted: 12/25/2014 11:00:05 PM EST
[#33]
Must just be certain lots as I have had no problems with it. By all means please anyone who has problems contact the factory. If they don't know there is a problem they can't fix it. Just as a FYI the lot number of mine that I haven't had a problem with is 0807469003. Bought 250 rounds all the same lot number.
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Posted: 12/25/2014 11:17:38 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Must just be certain lots as I have had no problems with it. By all means please anyone who has problems contact the factory. If they don't know there is a problem they can't fix it. Just as a FYI the lot number of mine that I haven't had a problem with is 0807469003. Bought 250 rounds all the same lot number. If the lot numbers are sequential, yours appears to be older. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 6:03:19 PM EST
[#35]
I had the same problem with my 300 BLK using Fiocchi Ammo that i got from LAX.
This was 1 out of a 100 rounds fired. I threw out the boxes so I dont have the lot numbers. ( bummer.) 
I dismissed it as just a fluke until I saw this post and all the issues. I still have 2 boxes of 50 each...not sure if they are good or bad.?? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:14:40 PM EST
[#36]
I just fired 100 rds through my .300 blk pistol today not one problem. I bought my ammo a while back here is the ID tab.
It was the .300 AAC Blackout FMJBT |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:57:05 PM EST
[#37]
I can't get Fiocchi to respond to me via email. Who do I need to contact and how do I need to contact them in order to make this right? Any help would be appreciated.
edit: I just saw the serivce@ address for Troy. Trying that next. Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/7/2015 12:09:04 AM EST
[#38]
My lot number is 0808469004. Did anyone have issues with that batch? I probably won't have the opportunity to shoot some for a while.
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