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Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
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Posted: 12/31/2015 2:00:13 PM EDT
Been meaning to share this with you all for a while now. Figured my 500th ARFCOM post would be a good reason to break these out.

Almost four years ago I spent a week in Israel volunteering on a IDF base through what is known as the Sar El (??-??, Service for Israel) program. The US arm is called Volunteers for Israel and while the trips are normally two or three weeks, Mine was a special one-week trip that happened to fall just after finals week. They also typically send the short trips pretty close to Tel Aviv but since I was younger they sent me down to be with a group of people more my age, putting me on the IDF's largest armored training base about 40min north of Eilat.
I won't go into too much detail about the trip because I know what you all are here for.

When they asked if we had any tasks we would prefer to do or if there were tasks we couldn't do, I naturally said I'd love to help in the armory. The armory was full of older stuff, M16's everywhere (mostly A1's with a few A2 uppers around and some of the A2 M203 handguards), a lot of Browning M2's (when I asked if they were the QCB version, one of the armorers laughed and said "we don't have anything that new"), plenty of beautiful FN MAG's, a handful of Negev's, a lonely Galil ARM, a PKM (for OpFor training), and a single CTAR-21 (when I asked, I was told that was the Commanders).

My first task was cleaning some M16's that were being pulled out of storage to be issued to a group of new (and quite attractive) female soldiers. They were taken out of a shipping containers to a desk where two people were dropping something down the bore to check for obstructions and checking headspace before being handed to a soldier and brought to the cleaning station. Someone from the armory pulled aside the soldier organizing the cleaning station and told them to give me something to do, which resulted in said soldier motioning and explaining to a particularly attractive woman.

She came over to me, held out her carbine, and said in a lovely accent. "Would you like to clean my weapon?". I resisted any field-stripping jokes, smiled awkwardly, and said  yes. (That is my dad's favorite part of the story).

The cleaning procedure consisted of breaking the rifle open, taking out the BCG, dunking the rifle in a 55-gallon drum (cut in half length wise and hinged like a barbecue) full of kerosene, letting the excess drip out, blowing the rifle off with compressed air, and then using some patches cut from a roll of fabric to wipe things down.  When they started to show me how to take the rifle apart, I had it taken down before they even grabbed the charging handle. I got asked for the first of many times in the armory: "how do you know all this?"


I didn't know much about M16's then beyond reading and research (I had just started my first build a few months back) but I had seen the armory and knew they were old. I knew it was before the A2 and in the Armory I had been told that many of them arrived full-length, but were then cut down and modified to be as short as possible yet could still function reliably, about 10.5" barrels. Again, these were for tank crews.



I didn't appreciate this as much as I do now, nor did I realize exactly what I was dealing with. Now that I do...

M16A1 Upper and Lower
6-Hole handguards
2-position aluminum stock
Flat slip ring
A1 flash hider
And one of the most interesting parts, the one that makes be believe these were cut down instead of starting life with their barrels is the FSB. It still had the bayonet lug.

I'd assume they started life as surplus Colt 653's.


Here is another picture of one we posed with in the armory. I look terrible and have lost 15+lbs since then.


Here you can see a very well-loved A1 lower, a CH marked upper, the A1 port door, and another FSB with it's bayonet lug intact.


I had some other fun experiences with the bear hugging greasy Browning M2's, which were all being checked and matched to two barrels and needed to be brought to the table for inspection. I also had one of the Armorer's pop-quizzing me on various firearms and how to handle them. He couldn't stump me, so then repeatedly suggested I should go on a date with one of his subordinates / suggesting we would be perfect for each other. We were both clearly embarrassed, much to his amusement. Still, he'd have made a better matchmaker than Yente, for sure.


I also climbed all over/inside various up-armored M113's, a Namer APC, and most importantly, Merkava Mk.1, Mk.3, and Mk.4. I was even brought inside one during a sand storm and the commander fired it up. I can safely say the tanks are completely drool proof, inside and out.



Enjoy!
Let me know if you have any questions about any of this stuff guys!
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 2:33:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Very cool. One item I'm curious about is the elbit falcon, in particular a forward mount. The typical mount is a ring with post clamped to the barrel. The sight mounts between the carry handle and the barrel mount. A variant I've seen only once or twice is an adapter which clamps to the fsb for short carbines where there isn't enough barrel for the standard mount. Have you seen this?
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 3:27:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Very cool. One item I'm curious about is the elbit falcon, in particular a forward mount. The typical mount is a ring with post clamped to the barrel. The sight mounts between the carry handle and the barrel mount. A variant I've seen only once or twice is an adapter which clamps to the fsb for short carbines where there isn't enough barrel for the standard mount. Have you seen this?
View Quote


Are you talking about this type of mount?

It attaches to the front of the carry handle and then locks onto the FSB and the portion of the barrel inside of it.

I did not see any of those mounts or even that optic. The few rifles that had optics used a forward/down carry handle type of mount. I think I saw one or two with a direct mount. Then there were a few flat top receivers.

Link Posted: 12/31/2015 3:58:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Fail!

No pretty IDF girls.




Link Posted: 12/31/2015 4:04:53 PM EDT
[#4]
What a trip.  Frankly, I'm jealous.

Retirement looms.  Do they accept old farts?
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 4:24:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What a trip.  Frankly, I'm jealous.

Retirement looms.  Do they accept old farts?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What a trip.  Frankly, I'm jealous.

Retirement looms.  Do they accept old farts?


My 80-year-old grandmother has done at least four two or three week trips. My parents did a two week earlier this year and they were the youngest volunteers on their base. You are absolutely fine! Just realize that you may not be on a base as exciting as I was.

Quoted:
Fail!

No pretty IDF girls.


None to share.

(Kidding, I didn't take any because it would have been a bit rude/creepy.)

Link Posted: 12/31/2015 4:58:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Awesome!
Start a thread in GD about the trip!  I want to know more!
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 5:02:31 PM EDT
[#7]
I love that carbine!  The IDF guns are some of my favorites out there.  Simple as it gets, but everything I want in a rifle.  All beat up looking and pretty.
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 6:08:55 PM EDT
[#8]
I wish Iz would upgrade to magpul and sell off all that old furniture (to us).
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 6:12:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Great story and pictures. I'd like to take vacation to Israel before I check out. The shorty carbine shown looks like a cut down Model 653? Again, thanks for sharing.
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 6:31:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Awesome!
Start a thread in GD about the trip!  I want to know more!
View Quote


GD scares me.



The few times I posted there I think half the responses were either snide or trolling.
I contemplated it at the time, but was pretty sure it would just dissolve into politics so I didn't bother.

If you'd like to know more, I'd be happy to share.
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 6:44:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Can you read hebrew?

I would  love to see any other pictures you took of the country side etc.

Thank you for sharing!
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 7:11:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Are you talking about this type of mount?
http://www.isayeret.com/content/weapons/assault/carbines/factory/images/sawn-off-2.jpg
It attaches to the front of the carry handle and then locks onto the FSB and the portion of the barrel inside of it.

I did not see any of those mounts or even that optic. The few rifles that had optics used a forward/down carry handle type of mount. I think I saw one or two with a direct mount. Then there were a few flat top receivers.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very cool. One item I'm curious about is the elbit falcon, in particular a forward mount. The typical mount is a ring with post clamped to the barrel. The sight mounts between the carry handle and the barrel mount. A variant I've seen only once or twice is an adapter which clamps to the fsb for short carbines where there isn't enough barrel for the standard mount. Have you seen this?


Are you talking about this type of mount?
http://www.isayeret.com/content/weapons/assault/carbines/factory/images/sawn-off-2.jpg
It attaches to the front of the carry handle and then locks onto the FSB and the portion of the barrel inside of it.

I did not see any of those mounts or even that optic. The few rifles that had optics used a forward/down carry handle type of mount. I think I saw one or two with a direct mount. Then there were a few flat top receivers.


Now thats a work tool!
Link Posted: 12/31/2015 8:39:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


My 80-year-old grandmother has done at least four two or three week trips. My parents did a two week earlier this year and they were the youngest volunteers on their base. You are absolutely fine! Just realize that you may not be on a base as exciting as I was.



None to share.

(Kidding, I didn't take any because it would have been a bit rude/creepy.)

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
What a trip.  Frankly, I'm jealous.

Retirement looms.  Do they accept old farts?


My 80-year-old grandmother has done at least four two or three week trips. My parents did a two week earlier this year and they were the youngest volunteers on their base. You are absolutely fine! Just realize that you may not be on a base as exciting as I was.

Quoted:
Fail!

No pretty IDF girls.


None to share.

(Kidding, I didn't take any because it would have been a bit rude/creepy.)






Do they accept gentiles from the hills of Tennessee?? Military experience, has to be a plus. Then, I'll take the pics for you.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 12:11:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Do they accept gentiles from the hills of Tennessee??
View Quote


Yes, my question as well.  Unlike our present Commandeer-in-Chief [peace be upon him  ] I have tremendous respect for the Israeli people.  Welcome or not?  
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 2:17:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Are you talking about this type of mount?
http://www.isayeret.com/content/weapons/assault/carbines/factory/images/sawn-off-2.jpg
It attaches to the front of the carry handle and then locks onto the FSB and the portion of the barrel inside of it.

I did not see any of those mounts or even that optic. The few rifles that had optics used a forward/down carry handle type of mount. I think I saw one or two with a direct mount. Then there were a few flat top receivers.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very cool. One item I'm curious about is the elbit falcon, in particular a forward mount. The typical mount is a ring with post clamped to the barrel. The sight mounts between the carry handle and the barrel mount. A variant I've seen only once or twice is an adapter which clamps to the fsb for short carbines where there isn't enough barrel for the standard mount. Have you seen this?


Are you talking about this type of mount?
http://www.isayeret.com/content/weapons/assault/carbines/factory/images/sawn-off-2.jpg
It attaches to the front of the carry handle and then locks onto the FSB and the portion of the barrel inside of it.

I did not see any of those mounts or even that optic. The few rifles that had optics used a forward/down carry handle type of mount. I think I saw one or two with a direct mount. Then there were a few flat top receivers.



Yes, although it may be a variant. That mount looks like it attaches to the side of the falcon. The one I remember would clamp to an extention of the base, or protrusion and then the rear angled part of the fsb.

Eta: I'm not describing it well. I was hoping to post a picture of mine but it's buried somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 2:39:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Been meaning to share this with you all for a while now. Figured my 500th ARFCOM post would be a good reason to break these out.

Almost four years ago I spent a week in Israel volunteering on a IDF base through what is known as the Sar El (??-??, Service for Israel) program. The US arm is called Volunteers for Israel and while the trips are normally two or three weeks, Mine was a special one-week trip that happened to fall just after finals week. They also typically send the short trips pretty close to Tel Aviv but since I was younger they sent me down to be with a group of people more my age, putting me on the IDF's largest armored training base about 40min north of Eilat.
I won't go into too much detail about the trip because I know what you all are here for.

When they asked if we had any tasks we would prefer to do or if there were tasks we couldn't do, I naturally said I'd love to help in the armory. The armory was full of older stuff, M16's everywhere (mostly A1's with a few A2 uppers around and some of the A2 M203 handguards), a lot of Browning M2's (when I asked if they were the QCB version, one of the armorers laughed and said "we don't have anything that new"), plenty of beautiful FN MAG's, a handful of Negev's, a lonely Galil ARM, a PKM (for OpFor training), and a single CTAR-21 (when I asked, I was told that was the Commanders).

My first task was cleaning some M16's that were being pulled out of storage to be issued to a group of new (and quite attractive) female soldiers. They were taken out of a shipping containers to a desk where two people were dropping something down the bore to check for obstructions and checking headspace before being handed to a soldier and brought to the cleaning station. Someone from the armory pulled aside the soldier organizing the cleaning station and told them to give me something to do, which resulted in said soldier motioning and explaining to a particularly attractive woman.

She came over to me, held out her carbine, and said in a lovely accent. "Would you like to clean my weapon?". I resisted any field-stripping jokes, smiled awkwardly, and said  yes. (That is my dad's favorite part of the story).

The cleaning procedure consisted of breaking the rifle open, taking out the BCG, dunking the rifle in a 55-gallon drum (cut in half length wise and hinged like a barbecue) full of kerosene, letting the excess drip out, blowing the rifle off with compressed air, and then using some patches cut from a roll of fabric to wipe things down.  When they started to show me how to take the rifle apart, I had it taken down before they even grabbed the charging handle. I got asked for the first of many times in the armory: "how do you know all this?"


I didn't know much about M16's then beyond reading and research (I had just started my first build a few months back) but I had seen the armory and knew they were old. I knew it was before the A2 and in the Armory I had been told that many of them arrived full-length, but were then cut down and modified to be as short as possible yet could still function reliably, about 10.5" barrels. Again, these were for tank crews.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/Squeethm/Israel%20Trip/Israeli%20Tanker%20M16%20-%20Cleaning%20Cropped_zpsq9xaib5p.jpg

I didn't appreciate this as much as I do now, nor did I realize exactly what I was dealing with. Now that I do...

M16A1 Upper and Lower
6-Hole handguards
2-position aluminum stock
Flat slip ring
A1 flash hider
And one of the most interesting parts, the one that makes be believe these were cut down instead of starting life with their barrels is the FSB. It still had the bayonet lug.

I'd assume they started life as surplus Colt 653's.


Here is another picture of one we posed with in the armory. I look terrible and have lost 15+lbs since then.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/Squeethm/Israel%20Trip/Israeli%20Tanker%20M16%20-%20Holding%20Cropped_zpsezdfb0f9.jpg

Here you can see a very well-loved A1 lower, a CH marked upper, the A1 port door, and another FSB with it's bayonet lug intact.


I had some other fun experiences with the bear hugging greasy Browning M2's, which were all being checked and matched to two barrels and needed to be brought to the table for inspection. I also had one of the Armorer's pop-quizzing me on various firearms and how to handle them. He couldn't stump me, so then repeatedly suggested I should go on a date with one of his subordinates / suggesting we would be perfect for each other. We were both clearly embarrassed, much to his amusement. Still, he'd have made a better matchmaker than Yente, for sure.


I also climbed all over/inside various up-armored M113's, a Namer APC, and most importantly, Merkava Mk.1, Mk.3, and Mk.4. I was even brought inside one during a sand storm and the commander fired it up. I can safely say the tanks are completely drool proof, inside and out.



Enjoy!
Let me know if you have any questions about any of this stuff guys!
View Quote


I'm gonna do one of these with a sig brace.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 4:47:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Great Pics and story. Thanks.  I always wondered if there was a way to do something like that.  I would love to do that trip too.  I will be retired from the military in another year making it possible later for that.  I have friends who got to do joint training with them in Israel. They have much more relaxed safety standards than we do.  Making training AWESOME.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:29:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes, my question as well.  Unlike our present Commandeer-in-Chief [peace be upon him  ] I have tremendous respect for the Israeli people.  Welcome or not?  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Do they accept gentiles from the hills of Tennessee??


Yes, my question as well.  Unlike our present Commandeer-in-Chief [peace be upon him  ] I have tremendous respect for the Israeli people.  Welcome or not?  



They pretty much welcome everyone who is sincere.
http://www.vfi-usa.org/ is the site.
Link Posted: 1/17/2016 8:22:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Need more pics!!!


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