Is it really worth drilling, pinning, spot welding just to save an 1.5". Not to mention you loose some velocity. I'm guessing this is just one of those personal preference things.

Bayonets fit better...

- AG

yea you lose the 1.5 but gain it back with the FH again...so no

Not right. You are STILL 1.5" shorter assuming the same flash suppressor. Makes a HUGE difference if you are trying to get it out of a patrol car in a hurry.

I have both a 14.5" and a several 16" carbines.  I must say I love how my 14.5" carbine handles.

- AG

Dude, bad at math?

Or, are you running your 16's naked?





Bill

I have a mid length 14.5" with a phantom pinned.  My outlook on it is this:  This rifle is for home defense so the loss in velocity does not matter.  

It will still reach out quite far anyway, and I do not plan on making any shots with it past 300yrds.

My advise is this:
Know exactly what hand guard you want before getting it pinned.
If you are not 100% sure then use a cheap/easy to remove extended FH like an Ex A2 or phantom.  I have removed a pinned Ex-A2 without much fuss.

I own two AR's and both are 14.5.  One is a commercial Bushmaster with IZZY FH the other is a new build.  I couldn't find a 16" complete upper with........ 1/7" twist M4A1 contour MP/HP chrome lined barrel, YHM tactical Phantom FH. F marked front sight, side sling swivel, dual heat shields, forged flat top upper, MI buis, M16 carrier, MP/HP bolt, M4 feed ramps.  But I could get all that in a 14.5 complete upper DELIVERED for $514.  Just check and see what ANY manufacture will charge you for that setup in a 16" complete upper with BUIS. That's why I have a 14.5 build........Mike

First off,  with M855 the velocity difference is around 40fps. Big whoop.

Second, if you're using this for hunting, personal defense, or plinking...we don't care about velocity vs. fragmentation of a FMJ...
Use a HP or SP and get over it. It'll work better, anyway.

Third, those asking if 1.5" is really worth it...obviously haven't used a 14.5/pinned much at all...because it is almost immediately apparent.
Taking about 1.5 ounces off the end of the barrel helps the balance and handling...clear out there, it feels like it is 7 ounces lighter.

1.5 inches can be HUGE when it comes to removing it from a patrol car as mentioned above, or negotiating in tight quarters such as doorways, hallways, around cover, etc. Every little bit helps.

The only downfall is we have to permanantly attach the muzzle device to meet the 16" requirement.
Not a problem for 90% of AR shooters...pick the FH you like, and be done with it...and it's a non issue.

Lots of 14.5" haters out there...but don't knock it until you try it...and you'll find most of the haters haven't really tried it.

It makes a Huge differance..!!!    i dont know why...!!! but it does...!!!  it just feels right..!!!

Get a 14.5" shorty and do some tactical drills with it... and then do it with a 16" carbine...  you can feel the differance imediatly..!!! if you run a 16" middy it helps..!!!  but if your goi ng to go with a carbine gas sytem then go with a 14.5" its worth the hassel of pinning and welding..!!! beside its not that hard to do...  unless your some kind of Sissy LAH LAH, that dont know how to use tools or somthing..!!!

drill the dame thing, jam a pin in it... and if you dont own a welder take it to your local muffuler shop and have them tack weld the pin... they probably wont even charge you... a buddy of mine did that to his, and the Muffuler tech said no charge...!!!  but he slipped him 10 bucks anyway told him to take it, so he could by some beer after work!!!

my buddy brought it by my house after and we took a file to it and a sanding band to it and then touched it up with some cold blue... and it was done..!!!

Never said I was a hater, just asking what the advantages were, what you said makes sense. I may go this route now

My old girlfriend used to say that 1.5" made no differance to her.

I have a 16" with a regular A2 and a 14.5" with the longer A2 pinned to it, so the difference is less than 1.5" - but it really feels completely different.  I guess it's a balance issue because it feels like the weight difference is much greater than it is.

I just got a 14.7", I can really tell the difference between it and my 16".  I haven't even shot it yet but I can't stop handling it.  Handles really sweet and I plan on doing a carbine course next year, I am definately going to be using it in that class.



A 14.5" lightweight profile must be heaven

Yet, she is your ex-girl friend, so perhaps it did??

a 14.5 with correct pinned Flash suppressor or brake is 16.1" a 16" with flash suppressor or brake is 17" its a big difference. and unless you plan on changing your flash suppressor or free float hand guards often.

1.5" and you can't change your mind on a handguard that requires a new nut...Or, you can take a Dremel and chisel to remove and then reweld a new FH - Bottom line it's a personal preference, and it will become a HEATED one quick in this forum.  There are true believers for both sides.

You lose 1.5" on the barrel (roughly).  If you want a physics problem done to estimate how it is actually in weight with momentum versus "feel", there is probably someone that can muster up the equation.  But I will say that unless you are talking tactical advantage - It's negligible unless you have muscle issues.  The difference between a 26", 28" and, 30" shotgun barrels with skeet shooting makes quicker swinging guns with each step going shorter.  However, there is a point that the speed in barrel movement becomes an issue with overswing and reflexes of the shooter versus a positive, smooth swing.  I'll be honest, I NEVER noticed the difference in weight unless they had skeet tubes that ran the entire length of the barrel.  Trap shooters like the longer guns - 30" and 32".  This makes a more stable gun for shooting downrange, and they don't swing as much for shots - Longer sight plain.  If you are going to use the gun for hunting (5 round clip for most states), general range, and home defense - 16" is a great compromise for length, stability, and keeping the gun modular which is the primary reason for this weapon.

I understand the tactical advantage of getting one out of a HUMVEE.  I can't talk logically to a police car.  However, when will the average person EVER do this???  As far as room clearing - #1 you need to be trained to some degree.  1.5" will not make much difference either way.  If it was the difference between a 16" and 10.5" barrel, then there is a difference.  You can get used to whatever is issued to you, so you can get used to whatever you build.  Also, if you are using it for home defense, your adrenalin will overpower any issues with the 10 oz of weight or so.

If the length is such an issue, then one should fill out the forms and pay $200 to get the SBR stamp, put on the 10.5" or 11.5", and be done with it.

I went from a 16 inch Bushmaster barrel with a 1/9 twist to a BCM 14.5" barrel cold hammered forged yada yada with a 1/7 twist. I have no doubt that the BCM will shoot better out to 800 yds with 62 grain open tip match 5.56 than the Bush 16 with 55 grain .223. The heavier bullets supposedly dont do very well with a 1/9 twist.  The 1/7 twist will stabilize the heavier bullet better. Plus I expect the BCM is built to better tolerances. I should end up with better accuracy, balance and mobility to get on target (swing the barrel) in my Tactical Carbine  classes. Both barrels are .625 pencil light weight type. If my Bushmaster had been a .750, the weight savings would have been even more dramatic.

Point being you can change your twist, weight AND length all by going to a 14.5". In my case I am hoping an ACCURACY change for the better too!

I built an ultra light weight where every ounce counts. Having my heavy Sig on a standard width (skinny after 2 hours) sling for two days gave me a pain in my neck that is STILL there. (yes I am buying a MUCH wider sling too).
The Sig 516 is for sale. BTW.

May I ask what type FSB you have? I am looking for the lightest one I can find

He said his old grilfriend. He may have a young girlfriend too.

The 14.5" just looks sexier .

-JC

Last Tuesday, I picked up my upper from the gunsmith with the 14.5" and YHM SC2 flash hider pinned/welded onto it and DD 9.5 FSP Lite rail.

I don't know too much about any of the practical aspects about getting in and out of cars and clearing corners in tight quarters and velocity of projectile etc. . .  but I think my new 14.5" upper looks really cool. . .that's pretty much why I wanted a 14.5 m4 contoured barrel.. . a 16" with a short carbine length hand guard sticks out too much. . .with a mid length hand guard, the hand guard is too long. . .

Or you could install a Daniel Defense Omega Rail.

OK?  I thought the topic was benefit of 14.5" with pinned FH.   There is no benefit to the DD except rails - I would prefer the accuracy at longer ranges of the FF rail.  

Anyway, I just think for the 14.5" versus 16" arguement that it's a PITA to change things if you want to.  Again, negates the MODULAR rifle system.  I have never understood the whole issue to begin with - It's personal preference.  I accept that people prefer the 14.5", and I don't condemn.  However, I prefer the 16" or $200 SBR stamp and go with a TRUE short rifle.

from what I've heard, the carbine gas system was designed for 14.5" barrels. So that could play into it just feeling "right"

I just built the wife a 14.5 and I am really liking that over my 16". Gonna pick up a pig and send that and my barrel to adco to have done. I like the shorter set up a lot.

I already chimed in and shared my love for the 14.5's...but a 14.5 with a flaming pig will be as long as a 16" with an A2...those pigs are LONGGG