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Posted: 10/18/2008 3:59:52 PM EDT
Strange bang, lots of gas, and then this...
     More pics will follow. The top cover is bent, the receiver bulged out, far enough for the safety pin to pop out of the receiver. Ammo was Wolf Military Classic 124GR. HP. I did not get hurt, fortunately. Here are some pics I took today:  Front part of the case still stick in the chamber. Maybe it was a weak case and it separated?  Fwd part of the bolt.   Back of the bolt.      The gun was built last May on from a (unfired?) de-milled kit on a AUSA receiver. First 1700 rounds of Wolff Military Classic (FMJ) ran fine, no problems whatsoever. About a month ago, I had a similar thing happen, with the same HP ammo: puff of smoke, weird noise. Not nearly as bad as this time, but noticeable. We figured it was a blown out primer, as there was no evidence of anything else. Unobstructed barrel, no traces of anything else found. |
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Posted: 10/18/2008 4:02:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Shitty. Glad you're ok
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Posted: 10/18/2008 4:08:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Do you think you may have had a squib on the previous round? What did the case look like on the round that did that?
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Posted: 10/18/2008 5:07:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Looks like it fired out of battery? Before the KB did you notice the bolt had a hard time opening and closing when you cycled it by hand? What was your round count on it? I noticed mine really scrapes the crap out of the bullet and the casing when I cylce rounds by hand. Therefore I am going to try to avoid HP and SP. That really blows. (sic)
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Posted: 10/18/2008 6:49:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Wow,
Sorry to see something like that. Did it do any visible damage to the bolt? Is there anything stuck in the barrel? |
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Posted: 10/18/2008 7:04:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Wow, that sucks. On an unrelated note, what kind of camera are you using? Those are some bitchin' closeups!
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Posted: 10/18/2008 8:45:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Tag
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Posted: 10/19/2008 6:40:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Most AKs are hard to get to fire OOB, the tail of the bolt carrier should prevent hammer contact with the firing pin until the bolt has started locking.
Possibilities- Bore obstruction: Any ringing in the barrel? Bullet set back: Any problems feeding the JHPs? Cartridge case failure: What did the cartridge case look like when it was removed? Bolt failure: What does the bolt look like? Excess headspace: When was the last time headspace was checked? Which gauge was it checked with? Double bummer as it looks like this was a SBR. Can you replace the trunnion and get a new receiver with the same serial number? Do have to notify ATF when a NFA item is destroyed? BSW |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 9:57:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks 
I don't think so. Saw the first round out of the magazine impact downrange, this was the second.
First set was a Canon Powershot SD750, second set was with a Canon 20D with a Compact Macro Lens, 50MM 1:2.5 
Yes...It was a SBR.  Not sure what the NFA says about replacing a receiver. If it's BER, I will have to notify the NFA, and remove it from the register |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:17:23 AM EDT
[#9]
I have heard that the tail will prevent that but I am looking at my M92 right now and; a:the tail is starting to wear down. b:the bolt still has just a little bit to turn (I am testing it with a snap cap) after the the tail is past the firing pin, with the BC having about .365" of travel forward before it is full closed. In all honesty I don't know what happend to the OP's rifle and it makes me a little nervous about mine. One good thing about the krink top cover setup is that it didn't fly off and hit you in the face. Glad your not hurt.
I did fire about ten rounds of Golden Tiger in mine a couple of months ago. I didn't clean it for a couple of weeks and when I did I noticed chunks of purple sealant inside the reciever? Whish I would have picked up some of the casing because it made me wonder if it was scraped off the sides of the bullet or was from the primer area. +1 on the checking the casings, seems like people have contacted wolf about defective rounds and got them to send them some free ammo or something. Have you looked down the barrel with a borelight. Since these are not chrome-lined if you had something obstructing the barrel i would suspect there would be some fresh scrapes or something. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:18:07 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm kinda surprised we didn't notice that case stuck in the chamber yesterday.
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:19:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Yeah, me too...
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:31:29 AM EDT
[#12]
With the case being expanded like that I would say it did fire out of battery. I had to send mine back three times to Armory because the bolt wasn't closing all the way. The third time they replaced my front trunion and told me they couldn't get the original to headspace correctly?
How could the casing expand like that if it was properly seated in the chamber? I don't know for sure I have never had a KB! (knocking on wood). Someone else has had something similar happen to them I am sure, time to put on your Deerstalker, hat and do some internet investigation. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:33:36 AM EDT
[#13]
I still think it's the ammo.
ATF will not let you replace a NFA receiver and re-serialize it with the same number. If it can't be fixed you'll have to rebuild from a new receiver and go through the process (again) of filing another Form 1 and forking out another $200 for the stamp + the cost of getting it engraved, again. 
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:36:20 AM EDT
[#14]
That's what I suspected.
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:39:39 AM EDT
[#15]
The case obviously failed. The problem is that the case head looks like an OOB failure. The case that's left in the chamber looks like a case separation failure. I just don't understand why those 2 parts of the case look like they do. BSW
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:44:19 AM EDT
[#16]
I am betting excessive headspace.
Do you have any other fired cases and can you take a pic comparing one to a live round? I will bet the lower can be fixed. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:47:28 AM EDT
[#17]
No, I don't.
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:48:50 AM EDT
[#18]
I would send these pics to Wolf and tell them the Darkside of the ARFCOM community is not going to buy anymore of their ammo until you get satisfaction
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:49:11 AM EDT
[#19]
I would remove the stuck case and get someone to check the headspace.
Can you go back and recover a fired case? How many rounds have you put thru that rifle? |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:49:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Man, I'm just glad you're okay. Still surprising as heck from an AK. Would Wolf be willing to help fix this do you think? Just a thought. Again, I'm sorry that happened.
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:52:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Thanks, man! Like someone said before, I think due to the fact that the top cover is hinged on these Krinks I'm OK. Otherwise it may have been a trip to the hospital to get a top cover removed from my forehead. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:57:25 AM EDT
[#22]
May have been a bad round if the round count was that high.
Have you ever had a case seperation in that rifle before? A call to wolf would be in order I think. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 11:07:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Had one similar incident once before, about 100 rounds prior to this, same batch of ammo, but I firmly believe that that was a blown out primer. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 11:25:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Well that sucks. If you have to replace the receiver are you going rebuild or start with a new kit. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 11:35:32 AM EDT
[#25]
I concur as that round ejected, IIRC. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 1:11:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Just a question. If it were excessive headspace, why would've the case seperated that far into the chamber? My simple logic is telling me that it would have seperated at the edge of the chamber, not that far in. But then again, I've never dealt with a kaboom (knock on wood). |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 1:13:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Because that is where the web of the casehead thins out. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 1:26:41 PM EDT
[#28]
I noticed in the picture of your boltface, that the firing pin is exposed. Is it stuck forward in that position now? If so, you may have had an out-of-battery slamfire.
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Posted: 10/19/2008 3:09:50 PM EDT
[#29]
WOW!!!! I am really sorry that happened to you Dan. Glad you were safe in the event though. That Venice-in-the-hood thread will be priceless now.
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:14:49 PM EDT
[#30]
First of all, glad that you are OK.
As far as the problem, I think at this point it will be impossible to check the headspace, since the front trunion is deformed and locking lugs are out of place. My bet would be that you got an exessive pressure due to bullet setback. Again, it would be impossible to check now, but I think that this rifle was not HP friendly. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:23:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Didn't notice the trunion was fucked.
Seriously, you need to go back to that range and find those cases. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:34:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Haven't noticed the front trunnion being fucked, to be honest with you. What signs do you see of that? There's no way I can find cases from it. It was at a range 4 hours away from me, and it got cleaned up after we were done. I was shooting next to another AK, which ran through 100's of rounds, to my one mag. No way. Unfortunately. eta. Just checked. If it's the left side of the trunnion you're referring to, I just checked, and it seems to be straight. Maybe an "optical illusion" in the pictures, compared to the bulged out receiver on the right. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:37:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Pin is moving freely. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:37:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Mabey not, may just be the angle in the picture.
Still, it needs a good smith to check it out to see if it can be salvaged. Who built it? |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:40:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Yeah, that'll be done regardless. No "Well known AK builder" built it. Just a guy here in Fl built it, and it's sisters are running flawless. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:45:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Yeah, but it appears it fired out-of-battery. With a set back bullet, the bolt probably would have locked correctly, and I don't think I would have seen this kind of damage. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:54:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Man, that sucks. Looks like a nice rifle.
I guess it's down to determining whether it was a rifle problem or an ammo problem. I bet even if it couldn't be definitively nailed down as an ammo problem Wolf would take care of you. They have excellent customer service. I wouldn't stick them with a problem I knew wasn't their fault though, so a little more investigation might be warranted before you contact them, just to see if this can be figured out. If you could try to get it headspaced that might uncover something. That blown out case does really look like it fired out of battery...but I've never had a KB so I really am only guessing here. Can you see the front part of the case that is still in the chamber well enough to see if the necked down portion of the case is flattened out against the chamber walls or not? If the round was fired before it was in battery the neck wouldn't have been all the way to the front of the chamber yet and probably would have flattened out against the wider part of the chamber. But then again the neck downed part of the case could have flattened out during the KB so none of that is really definitive proof... |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 5:56:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Just ordered a ruptured-case-extractor today. I guess we'll know more by Wednesday-ish when I get it. I'm trying to bring it to an AK builder in the area to get his opinion on this on Thursday. |
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Posted: 10/19/2008 10:47:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Bump-firing?
That totally sucks. Makes me rethink that 86s I've always wanted. |
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Posted: 10/22/2008 9:25:47 AM EDT
[#40]
I sincerely hope you can salvage the receiver.
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Posted: 10/22/2008 9:44:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Thanks. I've had a lengthy discussion with an AK builder in Ft Myers, and I'm taking the gun to him tomorrow, to eliminate a few factors, like headspacing, to try and determine what may have caused this. And, of course, to see if it can be repaired. Either way, what dawned on me more and more when looking at the gun, after I got home from the shoot, and from talking with the AK guy, is how lucky I am for not getting hurt. The sheer force needed to even bend the top cover where it is, is unbelievable, let alone to peel the receiver away from the trunnion. And all that about 8 inches away from my face.
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Posted: 10/22/2008 11:02:32 AM EDT
[#42]
That's no shit... I also feel pretty lucky as I was no more than two feet off your 3 o'clock when it happened. 
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Posted: 10/22/2008 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#43]
That really sucks.
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Posted: 10/22/2008 11:10:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Yep... BTW, where the hell were you???
Yeah, the top cover could have ricocheted of my forehead and hit you as well! 
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Posted: 10/22/2008 11:16:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Did you get the case out yet?
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Posted: 10/22/2008 12:25:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Not yet. Case remover hasn't showed up yet. Stupid USPS... 
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Posted: 10/22/2008 12:33:18 PM EDT
[#47]
I had planned on attending but I had company in town for Biketoberfest. |
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Posted: 10/22/2008 1:25:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Sorry to hear about it Dan, good to hear you're okay though.
Were you wearing glasses? |
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Posted: 10/22/2008 2:02:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Yes...as usual! 
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Posted: 10/22/2008 2:35:14 PM EDT
[#50]
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