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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:31:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Thousands of rounds through my Kimber and never a gun related malfunction. Maybe I'm just lucky. I shoot 1911's markedly better than Glocks so I stick with 1911's. I'm not going to re-learn how to shoot a gun because James Yeager thinks mine sucks. I also couldn't care less what anyone else shoots. To each his own.
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:50:44 AM EDT
[#2]
I think what your seeing is what happens when people with to much money think they need a 1911 they take it out and shoot it maybe once a year and one day wake up and want to become marksmen so they take a training class or start 3 gunning just because. they don't train with the gun outside of that one course they took and probably only shoot it at the 3 gun matches. So what do you expect? if you don't train and don't shoot with a gun your gonna forget it has a safty and if you don't shoot it enough you will never really see failures and you said it yourself "there are some great 1911 shooters" that because to those guys go out and train and shoot. If you don't train with a gun you will never be good at it Nuff Said.
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:53:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: ... Do some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? ... That's certainly no more than 2/3'rds of it, and may not even be just 1/2. I shoot a 1911 better than I do everything else I've shot, to include Glocks. I first shot one in boot camp, and have been hooked ever since. My grandpa probably said the same thing, though...  I've generally done my own gunsmithing, by changing and standardizing triggers, MSH, and grip and thumb safeties among those I carry and train with the most.  |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:54:37 AM EDT
[#4]
If this thread was in GD where it belongs I'd participate. But I won't touch it with a 10ft pole here other than to say that over complicating or over-mysticizing your handgun does not make you a better shooter.
Carry on |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:55:31 AM EDT
[#5]
My Colt Defender 3" 1911 has 500 rounds down the pipe of all types of ammo without a single failure. The problem with any gun on which the patent has expired is that any Tom, dick and Harry can make a crappy clone of it. What until we start seeing crappy Glock clones. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:08:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If this thread was in GD where it belongs I'd participate. But I won't touch it with a 10ft pole here other than to say that over complicating or over-mysticizing your handgun does not make you a better shooter. Carry on come on. im sure you can make a post friendly to this section i want to hear what you have to say |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:21:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If this thread was in GD where it belongs I'd participate. But I won't touch it with a 10ft pole here other than to say that over complicating or over-mysticizing your handgun does not make you a better shooter. Carry on come on. im sure you can make a post friendly to this section i want to hear what you have to say No way. This is not a technical thread in the least. Any response from me, or anyone else is going to do with the OP's interpretation of 1911 owners as it pertains to high-end customs as fashion accessories will not be a technical one. His observations have merit, but any discussion is going to be a goon-fest. I like, and now own a 1911, and will buy more. But if he wants to talk about this topic, it's a GD thread or nothing for me. The question is loaded. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:23:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Emotionally invested.
I've owned: 1991a1 colt full and commander RIA tactical. Kimber CDP2 I like 1911s. I do not like having to feed them specific ammo, new parts every 500-1000 rds. Their weight, or their low capacity. Those are the things that made me sell them. I do not subscribe to a martial discipline that uses only one weapon type. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:25:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If this thread was in GD where it belongs I'd participate. But I won't touch it with a 10ft pole here other than to say that over complicating or over-mysticizing your handgun does not make you a better shooter. Carry on come on. im sure you can make a post friendly to this section i want to hear what you have to say No way. This is not a technical thread in the least. Any response from me, or anyone else is going to do with the OP's interpretation of 1911 owners as it pertains to high-end customs as fashion accessories will not be a technical one. His observations have merit, but any discussion is going to be a goon-fest. I like, and now own a 1911, and will buy more. But if he wants to talk about this topic, it's a GD thread or nothing for me. The question is loaded. 100% correct. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:51:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: ????Emotionally invested. I've owned: 1991a1 colt full and commander RIA tactical. Kimber CDP2 I like 1911s. I do not like having to feed them specific ammo, new parts every 500-1000 rds. Their weight, or their low capacity. Those are the things that made me sell them. I do not subscribe to a martial discipline that uses only one weapon type. A new recoil spring for every 750 rds in 3" guns, up to 5000 rds for 5" government models is NOT unreasonable. Everything else you thought is just as equally specious
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:53:26 AM EDT
[#11]
I've seen several 1911's choke in IPSC and bowling pin matches. Most often it's after the owner has been bragging about changing out some parts to improve performance.
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Posted: 11/28/2012 10:29:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: ... Do some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? ... That's certainly no more than 2/3'rds of it, and may not even be just 1/2. I shoot a 1911 better than I do everything else I've shot, to include Glocks. I first shot one in boot camp, and have been hooked ever since. My grandpa probably said the same thing, though... http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/Couple-o-1911s.jpg?t=1318252347 I've generally done my own gunsmithing, by changing and standardizing triggers, MSH, and grip and thumb safeties among those I carry and train with the most. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC07553.jpg?t=1302550115 I see all your newer pistols have the old school safeties. Where do you get them? |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 10:39:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... Do some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? ...j That's certainly no more than 2/3'rds of it, and may not even be just 1/2. I shoot a 1911 better than I do everything else I've shot, to include Glocks. I first shot one in boot camp, and have been hooked ever since. My grandpa probably said the same thing, though... http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/Couple-o-1911s.jpg?t=1318252347 I've generally done my own gunsmithing, by changing and standardizing triggers, MSH, and grip and thumb safeties among those I carry and train with the most. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC07553.jpg?t=1302550115 I see all your newer pistols have the old school safeties. Where do you get them? I was having a recurring issue with the ambi safety on my Desert Warrior getting knocked off, while the New Agent never had a problem in the exact same holster. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 10:55:05 AM EDT
[#14]
I see more 1911's choke at matches than any other polymer gun, so far anyways. However, for some reason I still want a 1911...
In the 1911's defense, most of the ones I see go down are double stack. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 11:41:10 AM EDT
[#15]
We shoot 1911s or 2011s because we like them. No more complicated than that.
If I had to shoot USPSA with a Glock, I wouldn't be interested. I enjoy my 1911s and realize there may be a little more attention necessary to run them. If you think Glocks or the other polymer wonders never have problems, you must not get out much. At just about every match I shoot, there is usually someone having problems with their gun. In my experience, I would say shooters new to sustained courses of fire tend to have a lot more problems across the board, no matter what gun they're using. Once they get their routine down, find out what the gun likes, what modifications work and which ones are problematic, it's rare that anyone has a hardware problem. When they do, that's when I pay the most attention because then you can find out what parts are prone to break on any particular gun. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 11:50:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I regularly shoot. I am an active 3 gunner. I get as much training as I can, from the best places I can get into. I'm a glock fan. I have always had a question about 1911 shooters. I hear people brag brag and brag about their 1911's. before every training event or comp the 1911 shooters always sit aloof with their $3,000 kimber delta force MEU SOC with this special slide stop and this special Steven segal lpi grip. They talk about their gun like it was a family member or Thor's hammer. But when the shooting starts they are still shooting 2-3 seconds after everyone else because they forgot to take of the state of the art Wilson Bullet proof safety again.Most of day two while everyone else is shooting they and and the assistant instructor are huddled around their disassembled strayer voight, sti, kimber, spring field, etc doing something to the extractor. Well respected gunsmith and real world user Hilton Yam calls the 1911 a specialized weapon not for everyday situations or everyday users. The 1911 lends itself to accuracy so people thst need a high level of accuracy can benefit from them. You can see high levles of skill added to a precise tool makes sense. At comps and training i am see my G19 shooting better and faster. In the end my mozambique drill looks just like te 1911 guys i just did it quIcker. it seems that some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? (There are some great 1911 shooters out there but man I see strong number of guys that I'm pretty sure just got t like the 56 year old that loves his corvette, with the special euro race air foil, he keeps stripping the clutch on) Maybe it's not the gun but the shooter. I don't like Glocks and don't own any. I like my 5 1911s. ETA: I own other handguns besides 1911s. Just not Glocks. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 11:51:32 AM EDT
[#17]
I'll bite. I'm a 1911 guy that owns/shoots Sigs, Glocks, and S&W,s. I shoot the 1911 better than anyone of them probably because I have small hands and the single stack works best for me. I've had malfunctions with every gun that I've owned, 90% of the time its because of crappy ammo or me but I am confient to use any gun that I own to protect myself or my family.
I don't shoot IPSC or any competitions so I can't comment there. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 1:11:39 PM EDT
[#18]
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19?
I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 1:28:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I regularly shoot. I am an active 3 gunner. I get as much training as I can, from the best places I can get into. I'm a glock fan. I have always had a question about 1911 shooters. I hear people brag brag and brag about their 1911's. before every training event or comp the 1911 shooters always sit aloof with their $3,000 kimber delta force MEU SOC with this special slide stop and this special Steven segal lpi grip. They talk about their gun like it was a family member or Thor's hammer. But when the shooting starts they are still shooting 2-3 seconds after everyone else because they forgot to take of the state of the art Wilson Bullet proof safety again.Most of day two while everyone else is shooting they and and the assistant instructor are huddled around their disassembled strayer voight, sti, kimber, spring field, etc doing something to the extractor. Well respected gunsmith and real world user Hilton Yam calls the 1911 a specialized weapon not for everyday situations or everyday users. The 1911 lends itself to accuracy so people thst need a high level of accuracy can benefit from them. You can see high levles of skill added to a precise tool makes sense. At comps and training i am see my G19 shooting better and faster. In the end my mozambique drill looks just like te 1911 guys i just did it quIcker. it seems that some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? (There are some great 1911 shooters out there but man I see strong number of guys that I'm pretty sure just got t like the 56 year old that loves his corvette, with the special euro race air foil, he keeps stripping the clutch on) Six, I'd love to read your post, but it's practically just a wall of text. Please use paragraphs and more punctuation marks. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 1:37:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 1:57:48 PM EDT
[#21]
I tried Glocks, still own a couple G19s.
They have been weighed, they have been measured, and they have been found wanting. Good pistols but not anywhere near the hype spewed about them. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 2:29:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. He never said he was. He never said he even shot USPSA or IDPA. He said he shot 3 gun competitions. No need to put words into his mouth. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 2:31:44 PM EDT
[#23]
It isn't an either/or thing. I'll use a Glock at matches where I'm likely to be rolling in the dirt, but for USPSA I love my Brazos 2011.
I, too, have seen many Glocks have problems at matches and courses. Pick one and practice, as they say. Only A class, Limited Division. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 2:51:40 PM EDT
[#24]
I only have experience with a few pistols, as I'm relatively new to shooting. But the first time I went with my buddy, he brought along his new Springfield 1911. He had 2 or 3 failure to feeds from 50 rounds of AE. A little while after that, he bought a compact Kimber since his Springfield was too big for him to carry. I purchased my first pistol shortly after which ended up being a Beretta M9.
Well we went to the range with our new toys and within the very first mag of his Kimber, he had a failure to feed. I had zero problems with my M9. After that though, everything was smooth sailing, so I'm not sure what's up. I always hear of 1911's needing break-ins. I've always wanted a 1911, but I kinda feel different now knowing that they can tend to have problems until you shoot them enough. I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather own a firearm knowing that it won't need this kind of patience. I want mine to go bang until there's an extreme round count, or it's ammo related. For what it's worth though, we both shot a bit more accurately with the 1911's than my M9 
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:02:52 PM EDT
[#25]
I have pretty much used and handled lots of firearms from different makes and models. It all comes down to the shooter's training. 1911's are not for lazy shooters who shoot once a year. Glocks are simple none complicated firearms which are simple to train shooters with. I have pretty much seen every platform fail and most of it is due to the shooter tinkering with it, not taking care of his weapon, ammo and magazine related failures. The 1911 is a great weapon in the hands of a dedicated shooter, but its not for everyone. I have always hated how Glocks feel in my hand and they are ugly, but they work and are reliable weapons. I own a G17, G19OD and I also own a Colt Combat Commander pre 80 series and a Colt Government Model 80 series. Which one I prefer? The one nearest to me at the moment my life is threaten. Doesn't matter which platform you use as long as you train with what you got.
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:17:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. He never said he was. He never said he even shot USPSA or IDPA. He said he shot 3 gun competitions. No need to put words into his mouth. I bring it up because the only people I ever see with an attitude like the OP's are usually the sort who shows up to a USPSA match with a drop leg holster and body armor, gets his clock cleaned by old farts with 40 years on him, and never comes back. If you don't stick around long enough to actually join an organization and get classified, I'm not apt to give your opinion about "all the guns I see have problems in competition" a whole lot of attention. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:20:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. Im a member of both. IDPA Stock service Im using my G 19 for everything else a G34 or G17 |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:23:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. Im a member of both. IDPA Stock service Im using my G 19 for everything else a G34 or G17 Then I'm sure you've probably seen some Grand Masters kick ass with a 1911 and not have problems, right? |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:31:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. Im a member of both. IDPA Stock service Im using my G 19 for everything else a G34 or G17 Then I'm sure you've probably seen some Grand Masters kick ass with a 1911 and not have problems, right? Yes, I have that was the point. I have seen people rock with 1911's. Trained and skilled people.Many people with very sub par skills buy 1911's because they look "cool". They buy them because Matt Burkett, John Wayne and Movie heros like them.They don't really know a lot about guns but they like the lore. I was just saying, sorry, that group has a few of those guys:( |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:36:32 PM EDT
[#30]
The problem comes when people invest their ego in their firearm. Buy a handgun, any handgun, then run the damn thing. Shoot a shit-ton of rounds through it (500+ in your first range trip). Did it run? Yeah? Good. No? Sell or return it, you got a piece of shit that isn't worth taking the time to fix. I don't care if it is a 1911, a Glock, M&P or what it is, run the damn thing before you carry it or trust it to be a defensive gun.
What the 1911 is, is a hand fitted piece of art and a piece of history. I really hope to own another one again some day. They are beautiful to look at, amazing to shoot, and have quite possibly the best trigger of any handgun ever made. What they also are is outdated, at least as a primary carry piece. They have too many safety mechanisms (Thumb safety is awesome but the grip safety can make adverse manipulation difficult). They carry too few rounds (half the capacity of any modern double stack). If a gun carries 8 rounds, I better be able to drop it in my pocket, or at least carry it AIWB under my tightest shirt and have no printing. On the subject of James Yeager, I personally don't care for him and I would probably never take one of his classes, but I can't fault him on his observations during his own classes, provided he is telling the truth (show me him taking money from Glock for his statements or something). If he has never seen a 1911 run through his class without choking, I think it is a valuable observation. I would like to see if a high end "fighting" 1911 could, personally. Going to pick out a new gun, for defensive use, I will never consider a 1911 for my reasons listed above. But I really want one to have as a BBQ gun in my collection one day when I have all of my "practical use" firearms. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:42:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Yes, I have that was the point. I have seen people rock with 1911's. Trained and skilled people.Many people with very sub par skills buy 1911's because they look "cool". They buy them because Matt Burkett, John Wayne and Movie heros like them.They don't really know a lot about guns but they like the lore. I was just saying, sorry, that group has a few of those guys:( It's probably because they think it's cool that a 101 year old design can still stand up against anything made today and do pretty well... given a little bit more care and feeding. The 1911 newb is usually not up to speed on the critical points of the gun and they tend to have more problems when the get on the clock and start trying to go fast. But I have noticed a lot more out-of-the-box production 1911s have issues compared to semi-customs and customs, which are generally well squared-away by the time they get to the end user. Ammo is also a factor. Improperly reloaded ammo is the cause of about 75% of the problems I've seen during matches... not enough crimp, wrong OAL, loaded too light, etc. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:42:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So what you're saying is that you won the USPSA Nationals with your G19? I must have missed that. I'm going to have to look through my back issues of "Front Sight" to see who you are. I doubt OP is a card carrying and classified USPSA or IDPA member. Im a member of both. IDPA Stock service Im using my G 19 for everything else a G34 or G17 Then I'm sure you've probably seen some Grand Masters kick ass with a 1911 and not have problems, right? Yes, I have that was the point. I have seen people rock with 1911's. Trained and skilled people.Many people with very sub par skills buy 1911's because they look "cool". They buy them because Matt Burkett, John Wayne and Movie heros like them.They don't really know a lot about guns but they like the lore. I was just saying, sorry, that group has a few of those guys:( Gross generalizations. The same could be said of any sub-par shooter, regardless of their platform., and every group "has a few of those guys". |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 6:08:21 PM EDT
[#33]
The OP just doesn't quite know what he is talking about. These scores are from last night. Of the top 20 shooters, I think all but three guns are 1911/2011 variants. Two Glocks if I recall (I am 13 of 185 shooters and shot a 1911. No issues). The Top two shooters are two of the three people who have ever won single stack nationals...
The OP should back up his facts. http://www.riopractical.com/text/tue_nite121127.pdf |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 6:25:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
The OP just doesn't quite know what he is talking about. These scores are from last night. Of the top 20 shooters, I think all but three guns are 1911/2011 variants. Two Glocks if I recall (I am 13 of 185 shooters and shot a 1911. No issues). The Top two shooters are two of the three people who have ever won single stack nationals... The OP should back up his facts. http://www.riopractical.com/text/tue_nite121127.pdf Funny thing about some classes in competition shooting. It seems to me that some classes were designed from the ground up to give every advantage possible to the 1911 because the creators had a love for that pistol and didn't want to see it fall to the wayside of the new "wonder 9s". Power factor anyone? |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 6:33:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP just doesn't quite know what he is talking about. These scores are from last night. Of the top 20 shooters, I think all but three guns are 1911/2011 variants. Two Glocks if I recall (I am 13 of 185 shooters and shot a 1911. No issues). The Top two shooters are two of the three people who have ever won single stack nationals... The OP should back up his facts. http://www.riopractical.com/text/tue_nite121127.pdf Funny thing about some classes in competition shooting. It seems to me that some classes were designed from the ground up to give every advantage possible to the 1911 because the creators had a love for that pistol and didn't want to see it fall to the wayside of the new "wonder 9s". Power factor anyone? Nicely played! Not a huge fan of power factor requirements myself. I have a 9 for steel and a .45 for when PF counts. If there was one rule I would kill that would be it for ammo costs alone. This was a steel match though so no PF. Only need to be able to knock down the steel. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 7:16:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Get both, that's what I did. I have equal number of Glocks and 1911's those are the only two types of handguns I own.
In the end, it comes down to the shooter. You can have a guy who is so full of himself and his $4500 custom Wilson and he could get outshot by a modest person with a $500 Glock. The tools are very important but the big factor is the person behind the trigger. Most platforms are capable of being shot very fast, even revolvers, but if the shooter isn't experienced, it doesn't matter what he has in his hands. 1911 people can get way to into their gun and start thinking it's going to fix all their problems, the same can be said for HK or Glock people. 1911 guys are special because of the amounts of money that can be spent on one gun. I am a 1911 nut but I love 9mm Glocks as well so I am constantly pulled in two different directions. Many days I wish I was a simple minded know it all that could just choose one type and put down all others, life would be a lot easier
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Posted: 11/28/2012 7:31:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP just doesn't quite know what he is talking about. These scores are from last night. Of the top 20 shooters, I think all but three guns are 1911/2011 variants. Two Glocks if I recall (I am 13 of 185 shooters and shot a 1911. No issues). The Top two shooters are two of the three people who have ever won single stack nationals... The OP should back up his facts. http://www.riopractical.com/text/tue_nite121127.pdf Funny thing about some classes in competition shooting. It seems to me that some classes were designed from the ground up to give every advantage possible to the 1911 because the creators had a love for that pistol and didn't want to see it fall to the wayside of the new "wonder 9s". Power factor anyone? I don't think you can say that about the most popular USPSA classes, Limited and Open. Other makes have done well in this space: Glock and CZ / Tanfo to name a couple. Single Stack and Limited 10 were created because people insisted on bringing 1911s and they needed their own class. Hell, you want to talk about something built from the ground up for 1911s, look at IDPA. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 7:43:15 PM EDT
[#38]
I'll bite
Started with Ruger black powder before old enough to purchase a handgun. Then moved to .357 and really agreed with me until it had a hard time stopping a dog trying to bite me. Moved to .44 and liked it, however unable to rapid fire it and hit well after the first few shots. Switched to Glock 20 and unable to rapid fire several mags. Tried to work through the issues with each gun and spent years with each one. The 1911 can hit the best with it and also best with it in rapid fire (multiple mags) Also shoot a S&W 460 alot but unable only a few rounds with it before unable to hit very well. This is the path I traveled for over 30 years and have ended with the 1911 has my carry pistol. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:02:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Correct me if I have this wrong - There are some people who mod the heck out of their pistol, sit around and BS about how great it is, and then fail to live up to their bragging. That's pretty much what the OP says, right?
How is this different from just about any group of enthusiasts regardless of which gun they're using? There are always a few like that, but to focus on them instead of the larger number who excel with their preferred tool seems likely to give an inaccurate impression |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:43:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I regularly shoot. I am an active 3 gunner. I get as much training as I can, from the best places I can get into. I'm a glock fan. I have always had a question about 1911 shooters. I hear people brag brag and brag about their 1911's. before every training event or comp the 1911 shooters always sit aloof with their $3,000 kimber delta force MEU SOC with this special slide stop and this special Steven segal lpi grip. They talk about their gun like it was a family member or Thor's hammer. But when the shooting starts they are still shooting 2-3 seconds after everyone else because they forgot to take of the state of the art Wilson Bullet proof safety again.Most of day two while everyone else is shooting they and and the assistant instructor are huddled around their disassembled strayer voight, sti, kimber, spring field, etc doing something to the extractor. Well respected gunsmith and real world user Hilton Yam calls the 1911 a specialized weapon not for everyday situations or everyday users. The 1911 lends itself to accuracy so people thst need a high level of accuracy can benefit from them. You can see high levles of skill added to a precise tool makes sense. At comps and training i am see my G19 shooting better and faster. In the end my mozambique drill looks just like te 1911 guys i just did it quIcker. it seems that some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? (There are some great 1911 shooters out there but man I see strong number of guys that I'm pretty sure just got t like the 56 year old that loves his corvette, with the special euro race air foil, he keeps stripping the clutch on) My grandfather, rest his soul would tell Hilton Yam to fuck off. His 1911 functioned perfectly through more shit that you or Mr. Yam, or anyone else will likely ever see. He took many German's lives in the trenches of WWI , in ungodly conditions that haven't been seen by mortal man since. Not even WWII was that bad. He broke through the fucking Hindenburg line with a 1911 in his hands, covered with mud, blood and guts of friend and foe. He was one of the first men through, with the Old Hickory Division. I'll take the word of a man like that over the work of Mr. Yam or anyone else. My grandfather carried a 1911 in civilian life as well due to the love and respect he had for it in the war. He lived to be 101, and never had anything but good things to say. He wasn't the only vet of that war, or WWII, or Korea. My father served during Korea, and it was his pistol of choice, as it was when he was in the FBI, and in civilian life. That led me to shoot them and fall in love. I don't care what your favorite pistol is , or what you shoot, but most of us 1911 shooters don't lump all of you together just because you shoot a Glock or whatever else. You guys are always the ones talking this nonsense. Shoot what you want. One size does not fit all. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:08:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I'll bite. I'm a 1911 guy that owns/shoots Sigs, Glocks, and S&W,s. I shoot the 1911 better than anyone of them probably because I have small hands and the single stack works best for me. I've had malfunctions with every gun that I've owned, 90% of the time its because of crappy ammo or me but I am confient to use any gun that I own to protect myself or my family. I don't shoot IPSC or any competitions so I can't comment there. This is the main reason I enjoy shooting a 1911. It feels great in the hand. It is the only .45 I have ever shot, though. I would give the HK45 a whirl since I think its ergonomics would agree with me. I base this on my experience with the P30. I have a Colt 1911 on the market right now but honestly I may just keep it. It's accurate and reliable so far. I prefer a simpler manual of arms. No external safety for me if I have an option. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:25:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
If this thread was in GD where it belongs ... + 1. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 10:25:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Halfway though your post the song Self Esteem by the Offspring came to mind. And by the end I was hearing "Issues". As in you got some and need some(first song). Did a 1911 steal your lunch money, so much hate. But really I think you want one and this is how you convince yourself not too. Just give in and buy one, you know you want to, so you can sit at the cool table in all your cool gun classes tought by even cooler dudes.
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Posted: 11/28/2012 11:08:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I regularly shoot. I am an active 3 gunner. I get as much training as I can, from the best places I can get into. I'm a glock fan. I have always had a question about 1911 shooters. I hear people brag brag and brag about their 1911's. before every training event or comp the 1911 shooters always sit aloof with their $3,000 kimber delta force MEU SOC with this special slide stop and this special Steven segal lpi grip. They talk about their gun like it was a family member or Thor's hammer. But when the shooting starts they are still shooting 2-3 seconds after everyone else because they forgot to take of the state of the art Wilson Bullet proof safety again.Most of day two while everyone else is shooting they and and the assistant instructor are huddled around their disassembled strayer voight, sti, kimber, spring field, etc doing something to the extractor. Well respected gunsmith and real world user Hilton Yam calls the 1911 a specialized weapon not for everyday situations or everyday users. The 1911 lends itself to accuracy so people thst need a high level of accuracy can benefit from them. You can see high levles of skill added to a precise tool makes sense. At comps and training i am see my G19 shooting better and faster. In the end my mozambique drill looks just like te 1911 guys i just did it quIcker. it seems that some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? (There are some great 1911 shooters out there but man I see strong number of guys that I'm pretty sure just got t like the 56 year old that loves his corvette, with the special euro race air foil, he keeps stripping the clutch on) My grandfather, rest his soul would tell Hilton Yam to fuck off. His 1911 functioned perfectly through more shit that you or Mr. Yam, or anyone else will likely ever see. He took many German's lives in the trenches of WWI , in ungodly conditions that haven't been seen by mortal man since. Not even WWII was that bad. He broke through the fucking Hindenburg line with a 1911 in his hands, covered with mud, blood and guts of friend and foe. He was one of the first men through, with the Old Hickory Division. I'll take the word of a man like that over the work of Mr. Yam or anyone else. My grandfather carried a 1911 in civilian life as well due to the love and respect he had for it in the war. He lived to be 101, and never had anything but good things to say. He wasn't the only vet of that war, or WWII, or Korea. My father served during Korea, and it was his pistol of choice, as it was when he was in the FBI, and in civilian life. That led me to shoot them and fall in love. I don't care what your favorite pistol is , or what you shoot, but most of us 1911 shooters don't lump all of you together just because you shoot a Glock or whatever else. You guys are always the ones talking this nonsense. Shoot what you want. One size does not fit all. I think he's trying to say is a lot of 1911 owners get emotional and bring up old war stories if there's even the slightest hint of someone saying 1911s don't always live up to that expectation. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 1:56:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Too many people expect the name on the side of the gun or the amount of money spent on it to make up for their lack of training or ability.
First time I shot a 1911A1 was in the US Army in about 1978 or so. If you held them tightly in your hand and shook them they rattled/clattered like a can of nuts/bolts. And they still knocked down the pop ups at 50 meters every time they went bang (at least mine did). None of my 1911's/commercial Colts have match barrels, match bushings, tightened/fitted frame/slide rails, etc. My 1911 failed to chamber a round back in 1980 or so due to a swelled case (taught me to start looking at what I was putting in the magazine). My Series 70 doesn't like semiwadcutters (unless they are seated out farther than usual) but feeds my regular ammo/reloads just fine. The biggest issue I've ever had with a 1911 is the Series 70 dented case mouths pretty bad when I got it. It I remember correctly it had a commander ejector in it and I replaced that and the recoil spring to fix that problem. Why to I like them? They work. The cartridge works. They fit my hand. They shoot groups compared to the "patterns" my Glock, XDM, M&P and Browning pistols shoot. Alvin York took on a German infantry squad armed with rifles/bayonets with his 1911. John Baker took on a Japanese Infantry squad armed with rifles and bayonets with his 1911 (sadly he died after killing 8 of them, but he only had the borrowed pistol and no spare magazine, and he was so badly wounded he could not move from the tree he was sitting against). The 1911 has been through 2 world wars, 2 smaller wars, untold numbers of smaller engagements and it still works. LIke I said above, I'm trying the new stuff. So far the M&P line looks to be the best for me (hand fit and accuracy) vs. the others. They won't replace my 1911's but they'll most like replace my Glocks and XDMs. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 2:36:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... Do some of you guys just like 1911's for the lore and the look? ...j That's certainly no more than 2/3'rds of it, and may not even be just 1/2. I shoot a 1911 better than I do everything else I've shot, to include Glocks. I first shot one in boot camp, and have been hooked ever since. My grandpa probably said the same thing, though... http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/Couple-o-1911s.jpg?t=1318252347 I've generally done my own gunsmithing, by changing and standardizing triggers, MSH, and grip and thumb safeties among those I carry and train with the most. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC07553.jpg?t=1302550115 I see all your newer pistols have the old school safeties. Where do you get them? I was having a recurring issue with the ambi safety on my Desert Warrior getting knocked off, while the New Agent never had a problem in the exact same holster. Thanks. I had the same problem with the extended safety on my SW 1911PD and put an old school on it but it's some cheapo off ebay. Ddn't know Midway had OEM Colt's.
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Posted: 11/29/2012 3:18:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Too many people expect the name on the side of the gun or the amount of money spent on it to make up for their lack of training or ability. First time I shot a 1911A1 was in the US Army in about 1978 or so. If you held them tightly in your hand and shook them they rattled/clattered like a can of nuts/bolts. And they still knocked down the pop ups at 50 meters every time they went bang (at least mine did). None of my 1911's/commercial Colts have match barrels, match bushings, tightened/fitted frame/slide rails, etc. My 1911 failed to chamber a round back in 1980 or so due to a swelled case (taught me to start looking at what I was putting in the magazine). My Series 70 doesn't like semiwadcutters (unless they are seated out farther than usual) but feeds my regular ammo/reloads just fine. The biggest issue I've ever had with a 1911 is the Series 70 dented case mouths pretty bad when I got it. It I remember correctly it had a commander ejector in it and I replaced that and the recoil spring to fix that problem. Why to I like them? They work. The cartridge works. They fit my hand. They shoot groups compared to the "patterns" my Glock, XDM, M&P and Browning pistols shoot. Alvin York took on a German infantry squad armed with rifles/bayonets with his 1911. John Baker took on a Japanese Infantry squad armed with rifles and bayonets with his 1911 (sadly he died after killing 8 of them, but he only had the borrowed pistol and no spare magazine, and he was so badly wounded he could not move from the tree he was sitting against). The 1911 has been through 2 world wars, 2 smaller wars, untold numbers of smaller engagements and it still works. LIke I said above, I'm trying the new stuff. So far the M&P line looks to be the best for me (hand fit and accuracy) vs. the others. They won't replace my 1911's but they'll most like replace my Glocks and XDMs. Sidearms don't win wars The Glock probably has seen more "action" worldwide in police use than the 1911 has seen in it's entire lifetime of actual combat use. "hand-fit" or whatever people call it is overrated. A gun that spends 99.5% of it's time on your hip, and only comes in contact with your hand for split seconds has no requirement for comfort. It needs to be grippy, controllable, and repeatable. That being said, the 1911 allows well for this, provided you get your fingers on the multiple safety doohickies correctly........which is another topic all together. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 4:01:35 AM EDT
[#48]
Let me put this another way.
I am more accurate with a 1911 than any other pistol. I love the .45acp. I have never had but one unreliable 1911, which was a Colt Lightweight Commander. All the others have been fine with ever single type of ammo I used, including hollow points of various manufacture and weight, hand loaded ones, FMJ, LSWCs of various weights etc, all right out of the box. Even the cheap little RIA 1911 I have now that I have less than $400 runs like a scalded dog, and has since day one. I have owned other reliable pistols, and I have owned unreliable pistols of other designs, many of them, but the 1911 is my favorite and my carry gun because it has earned my trust. It was a favorite of my Grandfather, who used it in conditions so bad that people had to scrape lice off of their bodies with a knife at times, and burn them out of the seams of their clothes. Conditions where rats would wake a man up nibbling on their ears or fingers at night, or whenever you got sleep. Conditions where rotting corpses in the tens of thousands were never more than inches under the surface , and would be uncovered by the rain and foot traffic in the trenches, and of course the shelling that would unearth a few. He's eaten horses that were cut down by machine gun fire while stuck in the mud, just to have meat. Sat beside dead bodies, and even eaten their rations. His 1911 , and many others in that conflict saw a good deal of action. The 1911 was recommended to me by this man ( Top right #4 standing ), who charged through the German lines with one in hand, over the word of Mr. Yam, or Mr. Yeager any day. 
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Posted: 11/29/2012 4:32:40 AM EDT
[#49]
What, like 101 years they've been around. Must be something good about them.
Just so no one gets the wrong idea, I carry 1911s and glock. I like 'em both. But threads about..........Ewwwwww, you like this......so you are less hi-speed than me........are getting old. Who cares what anybody else uses, if it makes them happy, you should be happy for them. On top of that, if they with their junky $5000 1911s, and their non-existent skills, are doing so badly........ ........just be happy you're beating them. (you sound like a sore winner) |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 5:31:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Why not shoot what you like and let others do the same.
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