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WV, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2024 7:48:24 PM EDT
[#1]
GunSam on youtube does a lot of comparisons, he seems to.prefer 357 sig in semi autos
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USA
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Posted: 1/17/2024 8:33:08 PM EDT
[#2]
9x25 Dillon …. for grown-ups.
It makes the 357 Sig look like 9mm+P, especially with the heavier 147 bullets. |
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Posted: 1/17/2024 9:41:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Blain, what happens when you shake a good defensive .357 sig round?
Just wondering. |
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Posted: 1/17/2024 9:45:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marksman14: Blain, what happens when you shake a good defensive .357 sig round? Just wondering. 
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TUN
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Posted: 1/17/2024 9:52:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fla556guy]
[#5]
357sig combines all the worst parts of .40 with all the worst parts of bottleneck rifle carts while managing to sometimes give 357mag velocities yet not giving the best part of 357mag revolvers; the immunity to projectile design.
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Posted: 1/17/2024 10:16:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: W_E_G]
[#6]
40 S&W wins
 M&P 10mm Gel test w/ Critical Duty vs. 9mm , .40 s&w , .45 acp ...and then the .357 SIG  357 Sig Ammo Testing Series: #1 Federal HST 125gr| 5" AND 4.25" Barrels | Accuracy/Gel  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/17/2024 10:30:18 PM EDT
[#7]
While I think that .357 SIG is an evolutionary dead end, cartridge wise, I would like to try out a GLOCK 31C. Gen5 MOS preferably.
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Posted: 1/17/2024 10:35:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: 40 S&W wins  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxv5z8LINh4...and then the .357 SIG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbUezNzUVJwhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105614/Untitled_jpg-3098190.JPG Well I guess that settles it, some youtuber in an uncontrolled environment, shooting clear ballistic gel in his backyard said .40 S&W and .357 Sig is best. What does the FBI and FLETC know anyways.  Attached File |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 12:31:20 AM EDT
[#9]
I carry a full size Glock 22 with a lw 357 barrel. Underwood and grizzly ammo make it shine. 700ft/lbs over 2000fps.
9mm,40,45 are all fine but this is what I like. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 11:38:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SDGlock23]
[#10]
It's a very good option, but people have convinced themselves that nothing is really any better than 9mm. They have to, not because it's true, but rather because they don't want to admit there are better options out there than 9mm. People defend what they're invested in.
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Posted: 1/18/2024 1:37:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SDGlock23: It's a very good option, but people have convinced themselves that nothing is really any better than 9mm. They have to, not because it's true, but rather because they don't want to admit there are better options out there than 9mm. People defend what they're invested in. Sure there are better options but who wants to CC a rifle. All pistol caliber service cartridges suck when it comes to "stopping power" or "knock down power" essentially all you are doing is poking holes in people to make them leak or plugging a central nervous system hit which is the only way you will get a show stopper. If you believe you have some magical advantage because you choose a particular cartridge over another you are in for a rude awakening. The whole idea of this conversation with people arguing that one pistol cartridge is so much better than another is kind of funny. If you have actually looked into with any detail what happens when you shoot people with handguns you might actually realize that no matter if you choose 357, 9, 40, 45, and even 10 when you shoot another human being center mass with these cartridges they are not going to behave like the movies. Many times and this is video documented the person maybe flinches or sometimes is unaffected for a significant amount of time from the multiple hits. We all know the story of the officer who carries 100+ rounds now because he hit a suspect with repeated hits and the guy just kept coming. Back to .357Sig or whatever you choose they are just not what some here seem to live in a fantasy world regarding pistol cartridges. |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 1:43:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: <sn> The whole idea of this conversation with people arguing that one pistol cartridge is so much better than another is kind of funny. <sn> 
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Posted: 1/18/2024 3:05:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: 9x25 Dillon …. for grown-ups. It makes the 357 Sig look like 9mm+P, especially with the heavier 147 bullets. Who makes barrels for large frame Glocks? |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 5:42:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SDGlock23: It's a very good option, but people have convinced themselves that nothing is really any better than 9mm. They have to, not because it's true, but rather because they don't want to admit there are better options out there than 9mm. People defend what they're invested in. That maybe true for some but I have a pretty sizable collection in all kinds of calibers including the .40 and .357 Sig being discussed here. I shoot thousands of rounds a year and attend as many classes as my job allows me to. I have been shooting for over 30 years now and was around to see the various shifts in the caliber wars during the 90s and early 2000s. I am a realist, handguns suck but 9mm is the best, worst option currently for a defensive handgun round today. This has been fleshed out by the Fed government, the US military as well as various militaries and law enforcement agencies all over the world. In particular the US military spent millions of dollars investigating various calibers including .40, .357 Sig and .45 before finally staying with 9mm. That just isn’t the big military either, the elite of our military dabbled with .40 and .45 before now coming full circle with the 9mm. This isn’t to say you should only use 9mm. Use what you want, but don’t fool yourself into thinking you’ve unlocked some over looked secret superior round that nobody knows about. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 10:18:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: That maybe true for some but I have a pretty sizable collection in all kinds of calibers including the .40 and .357 Sig being discussed here. I shoot thousands of rounds a year and attend as many classes as my job allows me to. I have been shooting for over 30 years now and was around to see the various shifts in the caliber wars during the 90s and early 2000s. I am a realist, handguns suck but 9mm is the best, worst option currently for a defensive handgun round today. This has been fleshed out by the Fed government, the US military as well as various militaries and law enforcement agencies all over the world. In particular the US military spent millions of dollars investigating various calibers including .40, .357 Sig and .45 before finally staying with 9mm. That just isn’t the big military either, the elite of our military dabbled with .40 and .45 before now coming full circle with the 9mm. This isn’t to say you should only use 9mm. Use what you want, but don’t fool yourself into thinking you’ve unlocked some over looked secret superior round that nobody knows about. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By SDGlock23: It's a very good option, but people have convinced themselves that nothing is really any better than 9mm. They have to, not because it's true, but rather because they don't want to admit there are better options out there than 9mm. People defend what they're invested in. That maybe true for some but I have a pretty sizable collection in all kinds of calibers including the .40 and .357 Sig being discussed here. I shoot thousands of rounds a year and attend as many classes as my job allows me to. I have been shooting for over 30 years now and was around to see the various shifts in the caliber wars during the 90s and early 2000s. I am a realist, handguns suck but 9mm is the best, worst option currently for a defensive handgun round today. This has been fleshed out by the Fed government, the US military as well as various militaries and law enforcement agencies all over the world. In particular the US military spent millions of dollars investigating various calibers including .40, .357 Sig and .45 before finally staying with 9mm. That just isn’t the big military either, the elite of our military dabbled with .40 and .45 before now coming full circle with the 9mm. This isn’t to say you should only use 9mm. Use what you want, but don’t fool yourself into thinking you’ve unlocked some over looked secret superior round that nobody knows about. Again. When you're talking about departments, agencies, and militaries your not just looking at the bullets effectiveness on bad guys. Especially the military where the sidearm is secondary. Handguns don't suck that much. Go shoot some 2-300lbs animals with 9mm up through 44mags. I've had a 147gr 9mm gold dot fail to penetrate a medium sized deer shoulder. I won't hunt with 9mm anymore due to poor performance. I won't hesitate to hunt with .357 or .45s. Now hunting is not a 1-1 comparison to fighting but there is some definite things to glean. Handgun bullets just don't cut diameter sized holes through meat. Once you start getting heavy and fast enough you do start seeing more damage. How do you explain 1" diameter holes you can look through with just a hardcast .45 swc? Or holes almost triple the diameter of a .357 170gr swc @1200fps. For a while I was going back and forth with .38 specials and .357 mag on coyotes. Both with 147gr HSTs. The .38 at 950fps and .357 at 1275fps. If velocity had no influence on terminal effects then why do the magnums produce absolutely devastating performance vs the .38s. Bang flops vs the coyote running 20-30 yards with similar shots. Now I didn't lose any coyotes with the specials and don't hesitate to carry it and coyotes are not people obviously. It's not the same as self defense situations but with the same bullet I was seeing wound tracks you can see through with the .357 vs the .38 which were just the standard pistol wound track you would see with a 9mm. Please explain how that is possible if all handgun bullets just punch through? |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 12:17:33 PM EDT
[#16]
How many deer have you shot wearing down parkas and multiple layers or deer who were strung out on PCP?
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Posted: 1/19/2024 12:42:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: How many deer have you shot wearing down parkas and multiple layers or deer who were strung out on PCP? What exactly do you think a down parka does to a modern jhp bullet? Or a wn-swc? What does pcp have to do with wound tracks? |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 12:46:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: What exactly do you think a down parka does to a modern jhp bullet? Or a wn-swc? What does pcp have to do with wound tracks? Guys on PCP don't seem to react to bullets the same way as people who know they're dead. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 12:50:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EdgecrusherXES]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: What exactly do you think a down parka does to a modern jhp bullet? Or a wn-swc? What does pcp have to do with wound tracks? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: What exactly do you think a down parka does to a modern jhp bullet? Or a wn-swc? What does pcp have to do with wound tracks? I think he is getting at how pistols do not have "knock down or stopping power" when it comes to traditional loadings of service calibers in traditional service weapons. Layers of clothing have effects of hollow points some may not has as much as others but this has been shown many times. Debris from the bullet cutting through the clothing fills the cavity and the bullet fails to open, under penetrates or over penetrates. Originally Posted By JellyBelly: Guys on PCP don't seem to react to bullets the same way as people who know they're dead. Been cases of guys not on anything getting multiple hits and seemingly unaffected till the leakage sets in. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 1:06:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JellyBelly: Guys on PCP don't seem to react to bullets the same way as people who know they're dead. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JellyBelly: Originally Posted By 03RN: What exactly do you think a down parka does to a modern jhp bullet? Or a wn-swc? What does pcp have to do with wound tracks? Guys on PCP don't seem to react to bullets the same way as people who know they're dead. Correct. I've restrained dozens of them. My point is that pcp doesn't effect the wound track. My experience I wrote about above shows that pistol bullets don't just poke holes and can do quite a bit more damage. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 1:10:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: I think he is getting at how pistols do not have "knock down or stopping power" when it comes to traditional loadings of service calibers in traditional service weapons. Layers of clothing have effects of hollow points some may not has as much as others but this has been shown many times. Debris from the bullet cutting through the clothing fills the cavity and the bullet fails to open, under penetrates or over penetrates. Been cases of guys not on anything getting multiple hits and seemingly unaffected till the leakage sets in. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: Originally Posted By 03RN: What exactly do you think a down parka does to a modern jhp bullet? Or a wn-swc? What does pcp have to do with wound tracks? I think he is getting at how pistols do not have "knock down or stopping power" when it comes to traditional loadings of service calibers in traditional service weapons. Layers of clothing have effects of hollow points some may not has as much as others but this has been shown many times. Debris from the bullet cutting through the clothing fills the cavity and the bullet fails to open, under penetrates or over penetrates. Originally Posted By JellyBelly: Guys on PCP don't seem to react to bullets the same way as people who know they're dead. Been cases of guys not on anything getting multiple hits and seemingly unaffected till the leakage sets in. Lol, I understand how older jhp had trouble with clothing. I said modern jhp. Hst, gold dots, critical duty, etc don't have those issues. I also mentioned swc. What does clothing have to do with their performance. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 1:18:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Lol, I understand how older jhp had trouble with clothing. I said modern jhp. Hst, gold dots, critical duty, etc don't have those issues. I also mentioned swc. What does clothing have to do with their performance. They are not completely invulnerable even the Hornady options have that nylon filler to prevent clothing disruptions but it is not perfect either. We both know bullets can weird things once they start interacting with clothing, tissue, and bone. I have seen grown men shot with m855 act like no big deal till they realized they had something wet running down them and took a few more holes till they gave up the ghost. Also seen guys hit by 7.62x39 not realize they had been shot until they were confused why they felt wet and that could be a lot to do with adrenaline plus the tendency for that round to just punch straight through. My point is people react differently when shot watch a few police shooting videos and you see one guy get shot once and it seems like the end of the world with a minor wound and then another where the guy takes an entire mag dump like nothing happened. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 1:27:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 03RN]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: They are not completely invulnerable even the Hornady options have that nylon filler to prevent clothing disruptions but it is not perfect either. We both know bullets can weird things once they start interacting with clothing, tissue, and bone. I have seen grown men shot with m855 act like no big deal till they realized they had something wet running down them and took a few more holes till they gave up the ghost. Also seen guys hit by 7.62x39 not realize they had been shot until they were confused why they felt wet and that could be a lot to do with adrenaline plus the tendency for that round to just punch straight through. My point is people react differently when shot watch a few police shooting videos and you see one guy get shot once and it seems like the end of the world with a minor wound and then another where the guy takes an entire mag dump like nothing happened. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: Originally Posted By 03RN: Lol, I understand how older jhp had trouble with clothing. I said modern jhp. Hst, gold dots, critical duty, etc don't have those issues. I also mentioned swc. What does clothing have to do with their performance. They are not completely invulnerable even the Hornady options have that nylon filler to prevent clothing disruptions but it is not perfect either. We both know bullets can weird things once they start interacting with clothing, tissue, and bone. I have seen grown men shot with m855 act like no big deal till they realized they had something wet running down them and took a few more holes till they gave up the ghost. Also seen guys hit by 7.62x39 not realize they had been shot until they were confused why they felt wet and that could be a lot to do with adrenaline plus the tendency for that round to just punch straight through. My point is people react differently when shot watch a few police shooting videos and you see one guy get shot once and it seems like the end of the world with a minor wound and then another where the guy takes an entire mag dump like nothing happened. Yeah, I get all that. I'm talking about the actual damage done. I disputing the comments about handgun bullets measly poking holes. And while maybe not 100% invulnerable to clogging its pretty close. And of course swc dont. One of the reasons I'm a big fan of shotguns is because I've used both 556 and the 12 gauge up close and there is a significant difference in performance on threats. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 2:04:33 PM EDT
[#24]
LOL.
357SIG 125gr GDHP, honest 1350fps out of a 5"glock barrel. Shoots like a laser out past 100 yards. 40SW 165gr GDHP 1130fps out of a Glock 22. Penetration/expansion/retained weight equal to the 357SIG. The Gold Dot 40 load as above with a 155gr bullet is a bit hotter, just a tad more penetration but is harder on guns than the 165 if you shoot lots. 357SIG, I didn't see that, I thought it shot like my 9+p+, snappy but not flippy like the 40 but yeah, 357SIG got lots of muzzle boom to it. Didn't seem to beat the guns up. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 6:32:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MK318]
[#25]
14 hits with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued.
Now the officer carries 145 rounds of 9mm on duty. Officer Jared Reston has been in 4 shootings. This is about his shooting where he was shot 7 times with a .45 before killing the subject with his Glock 22. The shooter took multiple hits of .40 while still advancing and the fight didn’t end until Reston contact shot him in the head. I highly suggest you watch this entire video. It is 2 hours long but there is a lot of excellent info. It is like a free classroom lesson in what a gun fight is like and what it’s not like.  Winning an Armed Encounter with Jared Reston | Uncut LEO Version Pistol rounds suck. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 6:57:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: LOL. 357SIG 125gr GDHP, honest 1350fps out of a 5"glock barrel. Shoots like a laser out past 100 yards. 40SW 165gr GDHP 1130fps out of a Glock 22. Penetration/expansion/retained weight equal to the 357SIG. The Gold Dot 40 load as above with a 155gr bullet is a bit hotter, just a tad more penetration but is harder on guns than the 165 if you shoot lots. 357SIG, I didn't see that, I thought it shot like my 9+p+, snappy but not flippy like the 40 but yeah, 357SIG got lots of muzzle boom to it. Didn't seem to beat the guns up .40 and especially .357 Sig do beat up the guns. This has been shown to be an issue over and over again with parts breakages and maintenance. Some of you seem to forget that .40 and .357 Sig are rounds that have been around for 30+ years. Lots of agencies issued those rounds so there aren’t any real secrets in regards to the performance and side effects of using those rounds. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 7:18:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: .40 and especially .357 Sig do beat up the guns. This has been shown to be an issue over and over again with parts breakages and maintenance. Some of you seem to forget that .40 and .357 Sig are rounds that have been around for 30+ years. Lots of agencies issued those rounds so there aren’t any real secrets in regards to the performance and side effects of using those rounds. What parts breakages do you speak of? Not sure about those plastic framed guns, but there are no issues that I’m aware of out of the P226/P229/P239 shooting 40 or 357. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 8:45:32 PM EDT
[#28]
I have heard a story like this one before. Thank you for posting.
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Posted: 1/19/2024 8:48:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: 14 hits with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued. Now the officer carries 145 rounds of 9mm on duty. Officer Jared Reston has been in 4 shootings. This is about his shooting where he was shot 7 times with a .45 before killing the subject with his Glock 22. The shooter took multiple hits of .40 while still advancing and the fight didn’t end until Reston contact shot him in the head. I highly suggest you watch this entire video. It is 2 hours long but there is a lot of excellent info. It is like a free classroom lesson in what a gun fight is like and what it’s not like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e-RkobNOmgPistol rounds suck. I've found people who keep repeating "Pistol rounds suck" don't shoot many things with them and/or it's a reflection on their shooting. I love when people post the top story with zero reading comprehension. To further their agenda. First, the part about why you felt to further mislead people saying the perp is hit 14 times with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued. But if you keep reading "Any one of six of these wounds – in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney – could have produced fatal consequences, “in time,” Gramins emphasizes." That's a stretch. Except for the grazing heart shot a 556 isn't going to stop a fight by hitting a kidney. I mean I put a short burst from a saw into an insurgents chest while he was running and he still was able to run and take cover, then return fire. If you cut your hand off it could be fatal too. Either by blood loss or infection. But then, the same people who post 9mm is so great because your split times can be faster completely gloss over "Then I told myself, ‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better." |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 8:51:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: .40 and especially .357 Sig do beat up the guns. This has been shown to be an issue over and over again with parts breakages and maintenance. Some of you seem to forget that .40 and .357 Sig are rounds that have been around for 30+ years. Lots of agencies issued those rounds so there aren’t any real secrets in regards to the performance and side effects of using those rounds. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: LOL. 357SIG 125gr GDHP, honest 1350fps out of a 5"glock barrel. Shoots like a laser out past 100 yards. 40SW 165gr GDHP 1130fps out of a Glock 22. Penetration/expansion/retained weight equal to the 357SIG. The Gold Dot 40 load as above with a 155gr bullet is a bit hotter, just a tad more penetration but is harder on guns than the 165 if you shoot lots. 357SIG, I didn't see that, I thought it shot like my 9+p+, snappy but not flippy like the 40 but yeah, 357SIG got lots of muzzle boom to it. Didn't seem to beat the guns up .40 and especially .357 Sig do beat up the guns. This has been shown to be an issue over and over again with parts breakages and maintenance. Some of you seem to forget that .40 and .357 Sig are rounds that have been around for 30+ years. Lots of agencies issued those rounds so there aren’t any real secrets in regards to the performance and side effects of using those rounds. We're in agreement there. It became a fiscal stretch for 2 departments in Rhode Island that and sig sucked at keeping up with parts for their p226s. I agree most issuing departments should issue g19/17s It makes fiscal sense and they do work fine. |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 8:53:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NonTypical361: What parts breakages do you speak of? Not sure about those plastic framed guns, but there are no issues that I’m aware of out of the P226/P229/P239 shooting 40 or 357. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NonTypical361: Originally Posted By MK318: .40 and especially .357 Sig do beat up the guns. This has been shown to be an issue over and over again with parts breakages and maintenance. Some of you seem to forget that .40 and .357 Sig are rounds that have been around for 30+ years. Lots of agencies issued those rounds so there aren’t any real secrets in regards to the performance and side effects of using those rounds. What parts breakages do you speak of? Not sure about those plastic framed guns, but there are no issues that I’m aware of out of the P226/P229/P239 shooting 40 or 357. The p226 does not last with .357. The frames themselves and small parts. It's one of my favorite 9mms though. And the 229 was designed with the .40/.357 in mind |
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Posted: 1/19/2024 9:54:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I've found people who keep repeating "Pistol rounds suck" don't shoot many things with them and/or it's a reflection on their shooting. I love when people post the top story with zero reading comprehension. To further their agenda. First, the part about why you felt to further mislead people saying the perp is hit 14 times with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued. But if you keep reading "Any one of six of these wounds – in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney – could have produced fatal consequences, “in time,” Gramins emphasizes." That's a stretch. Except for the grazing heart shot a 556 isn't going to stop a fight by hitting a kidney. I mean I put a short burst from a saw into an insurgents chest while he was running and he still was able to run and take cover, then return fire. If you cut your hand off it could be fatal too. Either by blood loss or infection. But then, the same people who post 9mm is so great because your split times can be faster completely gloss over "Then I told myself, ‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better." Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By MK318: 14 hits with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued. Now the officer carries 145 rounds of 9mm on duty. Officer Jared Reston has been in 4 shootings. This is about his shooting where he was shot 7 times with a .45 before killing the subject with his Glock 22. The shooter took multiple hits of .40 while still advancing and the fight didn’t end until Reston contact shot him in the head. I highly suggest you watch this entire video. It is 2 hours long but there is a lot of excellent info. It is like a free classroom lesson in what a gun fight is like and what it’s not like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e-RkobNOmgPistol rounds suck. I've found people who keep repeating "Pistol rounds suck" don't shoot many things with them and/or it's a reflection on their shooting. I love when people post the top story with zero reading comprehension. To further their agenda. First, the part about why you felt to further mislead people saying the perp is hit 14 times with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued. But if you keep reading "Any one of six of these wounds – in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney – could have produced fatal consequences, “in time,” Gramins emphasizes." That's a stretch. Except for the grazing heart shot a 556 isn't going to stop a fight by hitting a kidney. I mean I put a short burst from a saw into an insurgents chest while he was running and he still was able to run and take cover, then return fire. If you cut your hand off it could be fatal too. Either by blood loss or infection. But then, the same people who post 9mm is so great because your split times can be faster completely gloss over "Then I told myself, ‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better." Like handgun rounds, your assumptions suck. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 9:54:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: The p226 does not last with .357. The frames themselves and small parts. It's one of my favorite 9mms though. And the 229 was designed with the .40/.357 in mind I’ve heard same from a local PD that switched a few years back. P229’s in 357 for females/smaller hands did better than 226’s. All hearsay though. Anyone know where to find a factory Glock 32 barrel? |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 11:02:32 PM EDT
[#34]
I did not know that about the P226. Makes sense as the P229 was built for 40/357, unlike theP226
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 11:13:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Regarding beating up on guns, I swapped the factory 16# recoil spring in my M&P40 to a 20# spring and it seems a bit easier on the gun and my brass doesn't bounce off the ceiling at the indoor range no more.
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Posted: 1/19/2024 11:23:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NonTypical361: I did not know that about the P226. Makes sense as the P229 was built for 40/357, unlike theP226 Across the board handgun manufactures had to beef up their pistols to stand up to the 40/357 rounds. Beretta redesigned their slide and introduced the Brigadier model. Beretta also moved from a straight dust cover to a slanted dust cover to give the frame more strength. Sig discontinued the P228 with its carbon folded slide and introduced the P229 with a stainless steel slide. Sig changed the locking block design and beefed it up in their P226/P228 guns. They switched from using the carbon folded slide in the P226 and started using a SS slide. Glock beefed up their locking block design and added a third frame pin. Most recoil springs had to be changed more often. Over all it reduced the service life of a lot of firearms. Instead of a service life around 50 thousand rounds for some pistols, their service life was half that when using 40/357 rounds. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2024 2:39:35 AM EDT
[#37]
Yay for the round that’s stopped by a fat roll at point blank range.
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Posted: 1/20/2024 9:45:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ken_mays: I've got one, a P226 trade-in. The caliber's easy to shoot but it's one of those "practice with the 9mm barrel and then pop in the .357 for carry" kinds of guns, at best. The one truism that seems to be developing in handgun defense is that "all handguns suck as stoppers", so I'm not sure a discussion warrants poop slinging in a tech forum or anywhere else. More practically, since it's a PITA to reload for, I will just shoot a straight wall caliber 99% of the time. if you size them with a 40sw die and then a 357sig die, its not difficult. you have to size them twice but no lube required and i've never had one get stuck 
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2024 2:20:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iGottaDropADuce: if you size them with a 40sw die and then a 357sig die, its not difficult. you have to size them twice but no lube required and i've never had one get stuck Do you have to trim them? |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 2:56:25 PM EDT
[#40]
As has been said.....
A handgun is just means to fight your way to a long gun. In the end....carry what you have confidence in. Paul Howe says that this is the best set of shooting rules that apply to tactical shooting. MIKE PLAXCO'S SHOOTING PRINCIPLES 1. ACCURACY TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER SPEED. 2. SPEED IS ECONOMY OF MOTION. 3. SPEED WILL COME WITH PRACTICE (IF YOU PRACTICE TO BE FAST). 4. LET THE SIGHTS DICTATE THE CADENCE OF FIRE. 5. YOU MUST LEARN WHAT IS AN ACCEPTABLE SIGHT PICTURE AND TRIGGER CONTROL FOR THE SHOT REQUIRED. 6. SHOOT ONE SHOT AT A TIME. 7. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, ALIGN THE SIGHTS... SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 4:07:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iGottaDropADuce: if you size them with a 40sw die and then a 357sig die, its not difficult. you have to size them twice but no lube required and i've never had one get stuck I’ve read that it’s hard to get a good crimp on.357 sig. that’s actually kept me away from the round. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 4:23:10 PM EDT
[#42]
I like 357 Sig it’s a good cartridge that sadly didn’t get its time. Unfortunately at this point it seems to have been all but abandoned by the manufacturers. I haven’t carried one in a couple years at this point. Juice isn’t worth the squeeze to justify the increase in cost. Flat shooting and I always felt it had a better recoil impulse then 40.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2024 4:32:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: That's awesome, thanks for the personal account!! Do you still carry a 357 Sig today? Why or why not? If so what gun / round? I do just not as much…when that happened I was a repo man in Detroit,flint Pontiac MI, I wanted something that would punch through sheet metal but still be effective in normal SD |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2024 6:05:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iGottaDropADuce: if you size them with a 40sw die and then a 357sig die, its not difficult. you have to size them twice but no lube required and i've never had one get stuck My method was simpler. I would use a little green soap tincture for lube and just size with the 357 SIG die. Hot water flushes all of this off and leaves the cases very clean. No problem at all. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 11:14:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AS556: Do you have to trim them? i dont shoot a ton of them but some cases have 2-4 firings on them. ive never had to trim them but im sure its brass dependent amongst other things. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 11:15:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: iGottaDropADuce]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXCATM76: I’ve read that it’s hard to get a good crimp on.357 sig. that’s actually kept me away from the round. can't say i've had issues getting a good crimp |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 12:03:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: ... the highest record of one shot stops of any other handgun round Geezus, it's Evan Marshall. This is like the Hare Krishna's showed up at the airport again. Haven't seen this shit in a LONG TIME. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:29:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXCATM76: I’ve read that it’s hard to get a good crimp on.357 sig. that’s actually kept me away from the round. Use Lees collet type Factory Crimp Die. I find myself using it more and more on different calibers. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:33:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I've found people who keep repeating "Pistol rounds suck" don't shoot many things with them and/or it's a reflection on their shooting. I love when people post the top story with zero reading comprehension. To further their agenda. First, the part about why you felt to further mislead people saying the perp is hit 14 times with .45 JHP, 6 of the hits fatal but the fight continued. But if you keep reading "Any one of six of these wounds – in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney – could have produced fatal consequences, “in time,” Gramins emphasizes." That's a stretch. Except for the grazing heart shot a 556 isn't going to stop a fight by hitting a kidney. I mean I put a short burst from a saw into an insurgents chest while he was running and he still was able to run and take cover, then return fire. If you cut your hand off it could be fatal too. Either by blood loss or infection. But then, the same people who post 9mm is so great because your split times can be faster completely gloss over "Then I told myself, ‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better."  These boards have always needed a "like" button.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:53:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunnie357: I like 357 Sig it’s a good cartridge that sadly didn’t get its time. Unfortunately at this point it seems to have been all but abandoned by the manufacturers. I haven’t carried one in a couple years at this point. Juice isn’t worth the squeeze to justify the increase in cost. Flat shooting and I always felt it had a better recoil impulse then 40. SIGs initial problem was that the original "us too" factory ammo simply used off the shelf 9mm bullets from the time where maximum velocities were only expected to hit around 1100 fps. Hot loads in the SIG would generally slough off the nose (fragment), and the base would over-penetrate. Two losing situations. There are reasons why companies like Speer and Federal, who make their own bullets, have modified their designs to give proper performance at 357 SIG velocities. Speers 357 SIG Gold Dot is a modification of their 357 Magnum Gold Dot bullet with the plating changed to give proper expansion at higher velocities. Federal HST does similar modifications to their jacketed bullets. It took awhile for bullet manufacturers to catch up with the 357s higher velocities, some manufacturers simply ignored the situation and either only loaded FMJ or stuck with their 'splodey bullets. Correct 357 SIG bullets are difficult to source at times. This is not an issue on paper targets, but on live targets there could be some problems. Personally, I want to do gel tests with Lehigh/Underwoods "defense" series bullets in 357, and maybe fill my freezer next winter with one. |
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