No, the stock shown in that link will not work on a real Benelli M4 tube. The only way it would is if you could replace the Benelli tube for one of the tubes that clone uses (assuming that you could).

Oops, accidentally double posted.

Read a bunch of pages back and I am giving serious thought to buying one of these.  A few questions....

1.  What do people use these for?  Is this mostly a range toy or are we using this for hunting, bedside, truck, etc.??

2.  Is there one <$500 model that seems to be a consistent winner?  I have my own impression but wanted to see what the experts say.

3.  Other than Dave's extension, what standard cap mag tube are people going with?  

I saw the Panzer rep on a vid saying Benelli parts are 100% interchangeable but that seems like a load of crap.  Or are they actually interchangeable but ONLY between Benelli and Panzer.  So the MAC1014 is no bueno?  

I'm planning on going with a fixed/pistol grip stock. No use for the adjustable that people complain about anyway.  Also thinking I want a marine coat finish vs standard but not a huge deal either way.

Please share your thoughts and observations.  Thanks!!

Not 100% Sure on Benelli parts compatibility  but my panzer m4 has ran perfectly through 1K now. It killed a cheap red dot but that’s par for the course probably.

In on this. Just waiting on the MAC 1014's in walnut to come back in stock.

The "marine" models peak my interest as they allegedly have an actual nickel finish vs cerakote like the current Benelli H20s.  Going to see how well mine runs once I get the replacement gas system parts first and wait on a good sale on the marines.

That's not what I was expecting.  Maybe it was the few test vids I saw but Panzers didn't seem 100%.  Good to know though!  

Thanks

1. I will use the two MAC 1014's I have for a range blasting toy, hog hunting, ride-along protection when I go to my property, and even HD.

2. I've only purchased two MAC 1014's and so far they are certainly a winner in my book. One was $374 shipped and the Marine finish was $381 shipped. Damn hard to beat for a semi-auto SG that's been 100%. Both stack slugs at 50 yards.

I am using SDS Imports extended magazine.

The MAC 1014 is supposed to be 100% parts compatible. So far, all I've swapped out was the hammer for a US made one, the handguards (Mesa Tactical also US made), swapped the factory rail for a Mesa Tactical rail/side-saddle combo, and the shell follower (US made) all with no problems. Now Im 922(r) compliant.

How do you like the marine finish on the MAC 1014?  How is it holding up?

Sure thing! I didn’t even try birdshot until I had 600 rounds through it. I’ve tried 3 different loads at or above 1200 fps and all have ran perfect.

Since I cast my own.  It doesn't really cost me anything to turn bird shot into buckshot.  But it seems like the guns all require higher power loads (more powder) to work the recoil assembly and cycle. Right?

Just a heads up....Safety Harbor Firearms is offering a 7 round mag tube and spring set. They claim it to be for "Turknelli" clones. You can get it from their website and on eBay. I picked one up and can provide feedback once it is in my hands.

Anyone know where to buy a pistol grip that works on a Panzer with adjustable stock?

I bought an early M4 with fixed stock, then bought the adjustable stock and didn't realize that it did not include the pistol grip.

If you're asking me... I think it's very nice. I treat my stuff very well so I'm really not one to render an opinion on the durability of the finish. It's quite smooth looking and perfect tone throughout.

So far, I've determined anything 3 dram or higher (1200 FPS) tend to work. Ammo described as "Game Loads" work where as the lower velocity (sub 1200FPS) "Target Loads" tend to be iffy.

The Federal TOP GUN and Winchester bulk-pack UNIVERSAL (Game/Target) loads work just fine.

I shot the shit out of mine and the finish was so so. I painted it ranger green

Are the gas pistons, and other internals, coated as well?


You spent all that time making screen caps to post and didn't even include a link!  LOL

Nope, sure didnt. About the same amount of time you took typing your response you could have googled the info LOL



The link I took time to post

Appreciate the info!  Truth be told, I thought the MAC 1014 was known for being the most reliable out of the <$500 bunch.  Since responses aren't exactly pouring in, I figure there's no harm in sharing my perception.  

I think these are cool, but no real purpose for me.  Hasn't stopped me from buying guns before.  Just not comfortable gambling with reliability....that's new for me.  And these companies don't give me the impression that they have seamless and stellar customer service if a lemon is received.  

I put a bunch of slugs through my 1014 as well as the Mossberg 590-S last month.

Just now getting around to cleaning.

The 1014 had a LOT of lead fouling. The Mossberg not nearly as much.

I used the bronze brush on a drill motor to DRY-SCRUB the bore. I spent about 20 minutes on the bore with just the drill and a bronze brush mounted on a shotgun rod. That got about 90 to 95 percent of the lead out of the bore. I ran the drill forward-and-backward with the RPM slightly below half-speed. Its easy to reverse the brush mid-bore if you keep the motor running.

It was interesting that the brush was a pretty tight fit in the 1014. By contrast, the same brush used immediately afterwards in the Mossberg was extremely loose in the bore. Hotdog-down-the-hallway loose.

I was surprised that there was that much difference in bore diameter between the 1014 and the Mossberg.

If you use the drill, be wary of running it all the way to the muzzle. The drill-driven brush will unscrew the choke tube instantly if you run the brush into the choke tube from the chamber-end of the barrel.

Run this in a DRY bore to avoid lead-slurry slop spew.
Reversing the brush in the bore is hard on the brush. Don't expect the brush to last long. Brushes are cheap. Time is expensive.

Attached File

The Mossberg 590 is over bored, which is why it has less lead fouling.  It is actually larger than cylinder bore from the forcing cone to the end of the barrel where it constricts down to cylinder.  That's why cylinder bore 590's pattern as well as they do for a cylinder bore gun, they have a bit of a choke.  

The MAC 1014 has a chrome lined bore, so I would still expect it to lead less than a comparable barrel without the chrome.  What choke did you have in the gun?

Can someone provide some insight or guidance on what chokes I may want to pick up for my 601 DPS?  The gun I bought was used and did not come with any.  I plan to run all kinds of ammo....buck, slug, shot, etc, etc.

Thanks!!

Improved Cylinder

5-notch

Improved Cylinder probably for slugs and buck.

Improved cylinder for skeet. Actual skeet-field skeet - not just arbitrary claybird-at-the-dump.

Modified for rando claybird or small game.

Full with EXTENDED choke if shooting non-lead ammo. Usually waterfowl hunting or turkey.

@W_E_G

Thank you!!  I will probably hit up Academy as I don't think getting them through SDS would be a quick deal as they are the importers. Not sure how equipped they are for parts support and logistics.

Looks like that 601 is a Benelli M4 clone just like the MAC 1014 and various others that I can't keep up with because there are so many M4 clones.

The 1014 (and others) are supposed to take all the M4 Benelli parts.

Which means Benelli-pattern choke tubes.

I have a CARLON'S improved cylinder EXTENDED tube inbound now.
Bought it off Amazon.
They have other tubes (full, mod, etc) on the Amazon site.

https://a.co/d/4ncqpKF

I wanted an exended tube because I like to bang the muzzle of the gun against things. An extended tube can receive the abuse instead of the thin wall of the actual barrel.

Choke tube is expensive. I doubt I'm into this gun enough to buy a new barrel if I bugger the actual barrel.


Attached File

Gotcha, TY for the info!!

Does anyone know if the marine MAC 1014s have the gas system components (pistons, etc) coated in the nickel marine finish?  Or are they black parkerized like the standard model?

I ordered a TEN GAUGE bronze brush to see how it fits in the bore of the Mossberg.

That hotdog-down-the-hallway fit of the 12 gauge brush in the 12 gauge Mossbert is no bueno.

Panzer M4 Range Report

Gear:
Panzer M4 purchased July 22
Telescopic stock purchased August 2022

Prep:
Both parts sat in the Panzer box until last weekend. I removed the fixed stock to find a notched buffer tube (yay!) and then realized that the telescopic stock did not include a grip (boo!). I performed the below 'new firearm maintenance' and reinstalled the fixed stock. Note that the trigger pack would not install on top of the oem fixed stock, so I had to remove the oem fixed stock again, install the trigger pack, then install the oem fixed stock.
- disassembled firearm sans mag tube and bcg
- wiped off factory oil
- cleaned every part with MPro7
- wiped every part with Tuf Glide (dry lubricant)
- lub-ed every part with ALG Go Juice
- reassembled firearm

Range:
Midday
51 degrees F
Sunny
REALLY Windy (target was upwind)

Shot the following strings:
1. Winchester Fast Dove & Clay - 12g, 2.75", 1350fps, 1oz, 8shot - 50 rounds
2. Winchester Super X Upland & Small Game High Brass - 12g, 2.75", 1330fps, 1.25oz, 7.5shot - 25 rounds
3. Winchester Xpert High Velocity Steel Shot Game & Target - 12g, 2.75", 1325fps, 1oz, 6.5shot - 25 rounds
4. Winchester AA Heavy Target Load - 12g, 2.75", 1200fps, 1.125oz, 8shot - 25 rounds
5. Federal Field & Target Multi-Purpose Load - 12g, 2.75", 1200fps, 1.125oz, 8shot - 6 rounds followed by 2 rounds - Failure - technically it was a FTF but the shell was hung up on the bottom of the bcg which did not travel completely rearward - which part is causal is kinda chicken or egg? Also, the oem loading gate does not operate smoothly. I removed the remaining 4 shells, locked the bcg to the rear, then liberally lub-ed (Go Juice) the breech/bcg.
6. Winchester Fast Dove & Clay - 12g, 2.75", 1350fps, 1oz, 8shot - 6 rounds
7. Federal Field & Target Multi-Purpose Load - 12g, 2.75", 1200fps, 1.125oz, 8shot - ~ 24 rounds
8. Winchester Defender (1oz rifled slug + 3 00 buck pellets) - 12g, 2.75", 1150 - 10 rounds
9. Federal Field & Target Multi-Purpose Load - 12g, 2.75", 1200fps, 1.125oz, 8shot - 25 rounds
10. Federal 00 Buck (not my ammo) - 12 rounds

At some point the oem fixed stock wiggled loose, likely becasue I didn't reinstall it correctly. Simply tightened the allen bolt holding it to the buffer tube.

The 1200fps target loads had noticeably less felt recoil than the 1350fps clay loads. Also, my buddy had a Mossberg pump and the ARGO system is noticeably softer.


TLDR: Panzer M4 break in, cleaned off factory oil and lub-ed w/ Go-Juice, shot 133 shells before the single malfunction (FTF) which was resolved by lub, then shot another 77 shells without incident. Will recommend.



ETA: cleaning was interesting ... the Gas Pistons were really dirty for what I understood to be a 'clean infrequently' item. Also, the Gas Plug O-Ring partially deformed, which could be 1) operator error or 2) inadequate tolerance / machining on the Gas Plug-to-Gas Plug housing interface or 3) bad luck. Regardless, if I need to remove this piece every time I clean, and O-rings do not withstand disassembly/re-assembly, then I question the durability of this unit.

The Carlson's choke tube arrived.

Amazing. I ordered it at Midnight Wednesday.

Arrived at lunchtime today.

Now I can bang the muzzle against things, and not have to worry about it.

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Attached File


Silver-color tube (one of three) that came with the gun. Fits flush at the muzzle.
$50 Carlsons improved cylinder tube (Carlsons offers a silver-color if you are into contrast).

Attached File


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Attached File

Anyone know if they sell the complete rear ghost ring sight as a spare part?

There is the benelli version.  It cost as much as a shotgun.  If you want spare parts best bet is probably buying another panzer or Mac m4.

https://freedomfightertactical.com/collections/benelli-m4-rails-optics-mounts/products/70059-benelli-m4-oem-rear-sight-assembly

Yeah, I have an older HK imported Benelli M1 that I’m looking to upgrade the first gen ghost ring sight. Just was trying to spend less than a Benelli oem costs

LOL, if you're stupid enough to buy that sight from those rip off artists, you deserve to pay those prices!!!

Same LPA rear sight, ~ $100 shipped from Opticsplanet depending on which one you go with (and if you use one of their 10% off coupons, etc).

@chrishag
https://www.opticsplanet.com/lpa-adjustable-rear-shotgun-sights-screw-down.html

They even have a cool fiber optic version!
https://www.opticsplanet.com/lpa-adjustable-rear-shotgun-fo-sights-screw-down.html

I hope I never have to buy anything from them... I saved 33% on the Mesa HG by buying from Mounting Solutions Plus... FFT wanted $150 whereas MSP was $99.00. Also sourced a US hammer seeing as FFT no longer wants to sell that part... they want to sell you a $350 "kit".

I am glad to hear I am not the only one that has disconnect with FFT over prices. They were not rude at all, they provided me guidance and I really appreciate that. But when they directed me to the parts I needed on their site I was like "WOWSA!!"  I was able to gather the parts across a few sites and after paying S/H at each site I still came out way cheaper than a kit FFT had.  Again no hard feelings, not mad or trying to throw shade, just priced to high for me. YMMV

A little more headway on the stock adaptation.
Had to bore out the buffer tube hole in the stock just a bit and at the same time bore a little longer (1/2") hole in the stock. Buffer assembly has been meticulously cleaned, oiled, and reassembled. I put the modified recoil assembly back into the receiver with red loctite. Just above the recoil assembly hole in the receiver there is a small threaded hole. Not sure what it is for, maybe a different stock variant. Found a screw with the right thread pattern and threaded it into the receiver with red loctite. I did this with the thought it will help with keeping the stock from twisting left or right. Dont know if it is needed but I figured what could it hurt. Drilled the stock for this piece. I then sanded the stock and it has been coated black. Everything is curing for the 24 hour time loctite calls for, for "full cure". Once the receiver stuff is ready tomorrow I will duracoat it black and cover the brand marking. I took the opportunity to thoroughly inspect, clean, and oil everything while I have it completely broke down.

Sweet that’s more inline with what I was looking to pay. Thanks!

Proverbial dumb question:
¿Is the Tokarev TTF Titan 12 GA a Turkenelli or a clone of the Mossberg 590? Reason I ask is that I need the softer recoil due to neck and back issues; plus, the $161 price seems a bit low for a Turkenelli. The 4+1 vs 5+1 capacity and Mossberg compatibility seem to wave the red flag that this isn't a Turkenelli also.

Tokarevusa page on the TTF
Bud's Listing for $161

Do appreciate the clarification from the more knowledgeable,

From their website.

The TTF 12 Titan semi-auto shotgun upgraded and reliable gas operated makes for a suitable scattergun for fun at the range or home defense. The polymer buttstock has an extra soft recoil pad and textured forearm will provide plenty of grip but can be swapped out for any aftermarket Mossberg 500/590® furniture as well.

Tokarev shotguns are primarily made in Russia. These shotguns are manufactured by the renowned Russian firearms company, V.A. Tokarev Production Association, located in the city of Izhevsk

So not really a turkinelli.  Not sure of how the gas system is.  I would not think it similar to the benelli m4 which is similar to turkinelli. Some type of Russian gas system.

Thanks for the responses. Had spotted the comment about 590 furniture but, who knows, could have been a blend of Mossberg furniture on a Benelli action, since anything is possible now days.  The bolded part is all I needed to know. I'll just keep putting pocket change in the jar for another couple of months to get a MAC.

So the TOKAREV is a SEMI-AUTOMATIC that take furniture for a Mossberg PUMP gun?

The Mossberg 500 and 590 both are PUMP guns.

That’s interesting.

Mossberg 12 gauge semi-automatic guns are the 940 and 935.

https://www.mossberg.com/firearms/action/autoload.html

So I have some things in mind I wanna throw out here:
A. I have been looking but cant find much, but, is there a bayonet mount for an M4 shotgun?  Was there even that option utilized by the military?  We had them for our 870s when I was in but I haven't found anything for a Benelli M4 with some short range research.
B. Anybody done an SBS tax stamp with one of these yet?  Found a short barrel at Delta Mike in NZ but....WOW, they want a lotta money for it!!

Only one of the Wal-Mart stores close to me continues to have the Winchester bulk-pack Universal 12ga shells on "clearance" yet they still continue to get them in. The sale guy and I are now best friends lol. The other stores have them but they are not showing as "clearance" so they won't honor the price despite showing them my receipts from previous purchases.

In addition to scoring seven more bulk-packs I also bought all the Nitro Turkey 1 1/2oz #5 loads they had at just $5 a box, also on clearance... I bought all 37 boxes. That's $12.50 per box of 25, a great price for a hard-hitting 12ga payload IMO.



Gotta pump up those numbers... the bulk-packs run perfectly in my MAC 1014.

Cant ship them to us.I asked about ordering one

Well....Fuck

Time you pay a importer to import it for you.You could buy a benelli sbs barrel cheaper

Yeah I gathered as much given the price they have them listed for and that is before I ask someone to import and they agree to pay the associated fees for the importation. Thats why I say "well....Fuck"....I realize the only option is a Benelli bbl, BUT, I cant validate that money just to find out they are just a smidge off on tolerances and compatibility. Then Im saddled with trying to move a niche bbl and probably not recoup my money. I think the M4 in SBS configuration is bad ass but I guess I am limited at this point.

Anyhow....anyone have info on bayonet mounting or the possibility of it?