Make sure it's all the way down on your hips.  Think like a backpacking backpack's waist belt - the belt is designed to work the same way.  And you will be fiddling with the exact length of all the straps for awhile, getting that balance between allowing it to completely settle on the hips vs, supported by the harness.

Also make sure your straps are adjusted right forward vs. back - you will want the harness to ride a bit below your neckline in the back, not hunched all the way up.  ie, you don't want it cinched down too far forward or too far in the back.  Again, you will be fiddling to find the right place.  (And when you finally get it dialed in, tape off the excess webbing roll so it won't budge.  If you ever decide to wear a pack with the belt kit, you will want to get THAT dialed in too, before taping it off.  That pack riding on top of your buttpack might mess with your adjustments.)

You will want to make sure your load is somewhat balanced - too much front or back, or side to side, can cause some issues.  

If the pouches still flop around some after all that, especially the back support pouches, you can always try the British thing and get a long bungie cord and bungie across ALL the support pouches, pulling them in closer to your body.  The built-in bungies do most of that for you, but sometimes it helps to tie all 3 of the pouches together with one long bungie stretched across all of them.  You probably won't need to do this though, if you have the pouches full already.

View of sotech rig

Assembled with random pouches

Various sotech belt widths, these guys have some kind of fear of wearing a rig at the height It Is supposed to ride

OK, here's what I do.  Un-adjust the shoulder straps until they hang loose.  Adjust the wasit belt until it is secure and snug on your hips.  It SHOULD be right where a rucksack waist belt would be, not up like you've seen in all the vids .  Now slowly adjust the shoulder straps back into a light tension.  I start with the back verticals, then the back diagonals, then the fronts.  Get these adjusted so you have balance, fore and aft.  If you still have some butt-bounce, then yeah, the classic Brit technique is to bungee everything together.  If the bungee tension on each pouch is set right, you're half-way there.  Typical Brit pouches do not have this feature.  It does help to have mags, water, n stuff cinched down in their individual pouches.  But if you still get some bounce, then start with 3/8" bungee, woven through the molle on the sides of each pouch.  Between the sewn down sustainments, and the double mag pouch designs, you should be able to keep this down to a dull roar, especially on an 8" hippo belt.  But if extra bungee is required, you can rig that as well.  

Also keep in mind this is designed to be worn with a rucksack, as a complete system.  When the ruck is resting on the sustainments, it stabilizes the belt kit, and vice versa.  If you're using it with a ruck, I typically adjust it approx 1" higher, to allow for stretch when the ruck sits on it.  

But at the end of the day, you might get a little butt bounce, simply because everything has been dropped down to integrate with a rucksack.  No free lunch here.  It's a trade-off that's made in order to get the best load carrying system combined with a rucksack.  

After a few ruck runs, it just becomes a natural motion to me.  The weight will shift up and down a bit but I adjust my running technique to accomadate it.  It sort of like the old groucho walk, where you keep your knee lift down, and use a heel strike.  That way you use the minimum amount of lift, to minimize the amount of bounce.  With a heel strike the impact goes up to your quads and into your hip girdle, instead of being soaked up by your arches, ankles, calf muscles, and knees.  It's more like a fast hike than a run.  If you smooth out your stride like this it will help minimize the bounce.  It's almost like an ice skating stride, or x-country skiing.  Think about a smooth glide forward, vs an up and down bounce.

Any input on a pull-out medical insert that fits inside the DZ sustainment pouches nicely?

Ok, so their wide belt doesn't look HORRIBLE.  At least they got the wide bit right.  I'm not sure how well that laser cut molle is going to last, especially without a webbing belt to help support all the weight.

Also, if you run a buttpack like I do, you will get a touch more bounce back there too.  Than if you were running the utility pouches.  It's not bad, just...a bit more.  Pros and cons - more space, more bounce.

I have a Varusteleka one.  I've handled the Tactical Tailor ones.  Both are nice.  I also make one.  It's also nice.    

All of those should fit the Diz MAGAZINE pouches.  The sustainment pouches are bigger, so they should fit fine in there too.  

If you can't find one that is sized for the sustainment pouches, hit me up and I'll adapt my magazine pouch insert and make you a bigger one sized specifically for one of the sustainment pouches.

Just to give you another choice, I made a 4-flap, fold up insert to go in a mag pouch.  My thinking here is that I want to water proof the whole kit with a baggy, and I want to pack to fit into a 3-mag pouch, so I shaped the insert to fit  the 3-mag pouch but put extra velcro on it so you can pack up it and shape it for other pouches as well.  Like the new 7.62 NATO or AK pouches coming out.  I figured no sense in just making another insert like everybody else.  

This will also fit a sustainment but you're gonna probably have lots of room left over.  So you could also get a TQ or two in there, and maybe even a boo boo kit on the bottom.  These sustainments are probably a little bigger than what you're used to.  Hell you could probably get your weapons cleaning and tool kit in there as well.

Dunno if you'd want to mix your cleaning kit in with your IFAK.  Maybe run your booboo kit UNDER your IFAK?  Heck, you could probably put an E&E kit under there too.  

Those sustainment pouches really are going to be much larger than what people think, which makes the magazine pouch IFAK inserts a bit funky to use in there, though they'd work.  Those pouches, if I remember Diz talking about it, are about the same size as an oldschool British PLCE utility pouch.

You think one of those surplus USGI IFAK inserts that fit in the issued IFAK pouches would work?  The insert on the right in the following picture - you can get ACU ones off of ebay for like $7 shipped.

I have recently had to increase my minimum carry requirements, but a smaller pouch would be fine and then I could lash larger items (like trauma dressings) on the outside of the insert, Maybe I am not being create enough to get it to fit in one of the mag pouches. Wish I could to free up the other large sustainment pouch.

Eta; tactical pencil bag for trapper keeper

Attached File

I have no idea if this will fit your requirements, but BFG's TRAUMKit NOW! is an outer pouch with a hook and loop-secured insert that's pretty generous. I have a TQ pouch on top of mine. All the rest and a little bag for booboo stuff fits inside. That might be a good fit for the sustainment pouches.

This is the first thing that came to my mind too.  Also the IFAK that Marnsdorff mentioned. Both the BFG and USGI IFAK are sized as a 100 round SAW pouch. So bigger than a 3 mag pouch and smaller than a sustainment pouch.  That being said, a ziploc bag should work well enough inside a 3 mag pouch.  Just need to pack the contents in their right.

Most "Trauma" kits will be individually developed, hopefully with proper guidance.  Plenty of good guidance on pouches and contents for First Aid, and possible temporary "stabilization" of casualties.  Much of this requires competent Med personnel with appropriate training and drugs--Likely to be in short supply.  If rapid transfer to a decent med facility is not possible, then severe injuries will likely be terminal.

Get a different trauma bandage and you can make them fit in the mag pouch pullouts.  I have a full IFAK in mine, with all the bells and whistles.  I just had to get certain things to fit.  

Here's mine right now.  2 x flatpacked gauze, 1 x Celox gauze, 2 x chest seals, pressure trauma bandage, decompression needle, nasopharyngeal airway, couple pair of gloves, and I tuck trauma sheers in there to the side of it, they won't fit in the actual pullout.  Tourniquet attached to the front of the mag pouches in a surplus flashbang pouch, I really need to make a dedicated pouch for myself.

I forgot which one I ended up using, but the pressure bandage is one of the H&H ones.  I ordered like 3 of their smallest ones, and picked the on that fit the best.  The others went into my other kits. The Israeli bandages are just too big for these smaller kits.

EDIT:  I forgot to add, there's enough room on top or under the IFAK pullout to fit another probably 2 or 3 inches worth of stuff, both in my custom mag pouches and the Velocity ones I have.  I had been keeping an extra tourniquet, one of those basic elastic band with the metal hooks on the end types, on top of the IFAK.  And a mini booboo kit under it.  So you have some extra room to stuff some extra gauze or whatever in the pouch if you wanted.  

This is the Varusteleka pullout btw.  Mine are about the same size, and if I remember right, the Tactical Tailor ones are the same size too.

That’s a great option for a sizable med kit, you’d still have room to spare in the standard sustainments, too. Enough for a couple TQ’s and small boo-boo kit, as well.

Me, I’m no doc, so a small kit that fits into one of the mag pouches, along with a couple TQ’s, is plenty. I’d rather use that sustainment pouch for a canteen, mess kit, and a few other field necessities.

I shared these a few pages back when I first got my DZ Rig.  I used an ATS (pretty sure they make it anyways) triple mag pouch IFAK insert in the rear most right hand mag pouch and, while just a smidge tight, you can fit a chest seal behind it. You can easily use it in a sustainment pouch w/ even more shit if that's the pouch you want to go.

Yea.  This is probably the best option.  

If I had to upgrade my ammo, I can always pull the ifak out and put it into a fanny sack and use the mag pouch for more mags.

Templars Gear from Poland jumped on the bandwagon with British style ammunition pouches


Also, this is how a US ifak fits into a british utility pouch.


Regarding IFAKs, as  a soldier i could stuff a utility pouch full and more, maybe as a civilian i'd definitely step down in quantity (not too much like those minimalistic ones), when my DZ will come i'll definitely try on a ammo pouch or squeeze something between pouches or over utility ones (not that US ifak 2 or any flat ones with trays affixed by velcro as a branch will make it fall off quickly).

Also, atleast for me no boo boo under the main IFAK, as it seems that in the woods i am always a magnet for cuts, splinters, insects, blisters and such and i am always going to search for something in that kit.

Those are all some really good options.  Very true about the gunshot wound kit/IFAK/Blowout kit and Booboo kits all fitting your needs.  

I like having it closer to up front in right rear ammo pouch.  Maybe even right front pouch, for better ambi?  Have to play with that.

My boo boo kit is in shoulder pocket.  Back in the day, those micro cuts from sharp leaves in the jungle would fester in 24 hours if left un-treated.  But I'll take them over walking into all those spider webs.  

Yeah you might not want a nasty cleaning kit in with your med kit.  The only saving grace for that would be to have med kit completely sealed/waterproofed so it can't be fouled.  I have been using a lot of readily available civvy supplies that aren't as robust as .mil stuff.  May have to upgrade in that dept. For me waterproofing was always a necessity; in some areas, not so much.  

If any of you are at SOFIC next week, stop in at the Australian Defense booth and say hello.

So.  Those Templar pouches actually don't look bad, other than.....the laser cut molle on the back.  I do like the laser cut piece for reinforcement on the front / bottom of the body of the pouch, with the slot already laser cut for the spanish fly closure.  That is a smart use of laser cutting.  I also like how they have it vinyl lined like the British pouches are - that makes it really durable, making up for the more flimsy fabric they are using.  I also not they don't have elastic or bungie tightening on the pouches to take up slack / stop rattling.  

Overall it's not a bad run.  If they included little webbing tabs on the sides to add bungie cord, I'd give it a tentative thumbs up, depending on the durability of the molle backside.

So this is an interesting idea.  I wonder how well this would work, with adding 2 more rear straps, dropping the loops down a little farther down the back.  Might make a decent low-profile harness to go under body armor.  



https://templarsgear.pl/harness-x-harness-rg,c42,p2113,en.html

I've always questioned the durability of shock cord, although I admit to its being useful.  Suggest TWO separate shock cord loops, preferably installed a long time apart.

Agreed.  And / or a loop of paracord, longer than the bungie cord.  As emergency fallback should the bungie break.

I'm fine with that.  Best of both worlds.

Ya.  Gives you a little room to stretch, but will eventually support all the weight if you have to.

Looks like a knock off of the BFG SOC-C suspenders. I wouldn’t, seeing as Crossfire should have Diz’s low profile yoke released soon, and that looks a little more padded than I’d like.

Looks like a similar amount of padding as the DZ yoke, which isn’t terrible under armor, but anything with any kind of padding is less than optimal for shouldering a rifle, and those issues become exponentially worse with every additional layer. PC on top of the DZ yoke was doable, but not ideal. DZ on top of the armor sucked.

For belt kits, I generally prefer ~2” wide, unpadded yokes/suspenders to mitigate the issue of interference with my rifle, since I’ve also got the belt itself supporting some of its weight. Adding armor on top of that, there’s minimal issues, since the padding on those doesn’t reach the shoulder pocket. But it becomes an interlocking system that isn’t quick to remove.

Throwing a belt kit on top of armor is more practical for getting in/out of vehicles, but it is a big PITA for using your rifle. I’d like to get my hands on a low-profile, unpadded six point yoke, see if that would work out a little better by sharing the padding that’s on the PC.

Yea, if I'm rolling with my armor, I'm not doing belt kit.  Just a simple warbelt if anything.

The harnesses I do have really minimal padding in them - the padding is mostly to absorb and wick away moisture from my skin.  Just a thin layer of poly batting.  That and the plly stiffener sheet I have in there pulls enough sweat away from the skin to stop the whole wet skin chaffing thing.  And it's 2" to 2.5" wide at the shoulders.  Same kinda idea.

One of the One Shepard guys has a pretty good video on his 'new' set of surplus DPM pattern PLCE that he just got.  

https://youtu.be/ZBvrOEflfUo

I like him. Without fanfare he Is Always training and doing competition (in weird surplus gear which Is Always a plus )

He likes LBE and does those brutality and One shepherd train where he can make good use of them.
Again you can clearly see how he Is accustomed to the American way of thinking in LBE terms.

Regarding "boo-boo kits"

The old first aid kit pouch sewn onto a canteen cover was great for that. The new MOLLE canteen pouches have small pockets on the side for water purification tabs. None of the modern canteen pouches have that. They do have MOLLE webbing.

The best part about those compass/dressing pouches was the price. Now they don't exist in modern camo schemes except as a big frag pouch.

I think it's hilarious that he thinks Brit PLCE was influenced by US LBE.  As far as I'm concerned, it's the other way around.  Or maybe it's like the Beatles.  They take your concept and improve on it, to the point where the Brit version of it is far superior to your own.  And then some say Elvis is still the King.  

I guess it's hard to get past your own pride and prejudices, and admit someone else has a better mousetrap.  

It's funny, I have NO inclinations to use that crap I was issued.  I don't care if grandad used it on Oki, or dad used it at Khe San.  Brit belt kit is WAY superior to our own, end of story.

You watch what you say about Elvis.

You're correct. The PLCE beat the ALICE kit by about 15 years; definitely the father (or British uncle) of MLCE/ALICE. The difference is the Army dropped the ALICE and the Brits continued their evolution of the PLCE. Even for the era, the PLCE was superior in a number of ways and its only improved light years ahead of any modern "ALICE" options (of which there are very few). JayJays and Diz's rigs are prime examples of that continued evolution...a superior belt-based fighting kit.

Just as Elvis died before his matured prime, so too did the ALICE kit. The PLCE (like the last couple of Beatles) is alive and well

ROCK6

Got a pic of the pouch you are talking about?  (I think I know the one)  I might do a run or two of them if people are interested.

*coughcough*  The buttpack still lives!  I do buttpacks, designed to work with the PLCE system.    

Belt kit related.  PLCE sighted in the wild.  MG gunner in a water filled trench.  

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6hW4BJLy2R/



Admin Results video on body armor, talks about belt kits towards the end.   Also touches on some ideas thrown around on here.

https://youtu.be/ck4jx7nPC1k

The rig in the video looks like One of dragon supplies assault rigs not unlike mine


These have the mesh vest type base instead of suspenders. Honestly i didnt spend enough time in mine to understand if there are distinct advantages or disadvantages to this design in weight spreading, stability, perspiration and capability of wearing under armor. For sure there Is less room for adjustment, they are usually tailored around the users size.

Also note to the side there is a camelbak pack, i Guess the motherlode model. These became popular by Word of mouth and they have surpassed even the berghaus Munro as the to go aftermarket pack. Both Jayjays and dragon stocks them and offer upgrades including a top flap. I didnt have this new ones, but i have been less than impressed with the old bfm suspension and straps. I like the trizip tho, i think It Is a practical pack.

Second image on the canteen pouch.https://soldiersystems.net/2023/03/07/2023-helikon-tex-preview/

Oh yea.  The old compass pouches.  I have a few of them sitting around here.  They are great to put altoids tins in.

I can totally pump a few of those out.  I probably have scrap fabric left over from cutting that I could use for them too.

What would you like done with them?  Fastex buckle?  MOLLE webbing field on the back?  Camo pattern?

this in my experience is a good sized FFD pouch.
That said, for british style webbing think of each utility pouch more like a buttpack, it has to carry more than one item, it's unrealistic to carry each item in a different pouch (that said, i always put extra smaller specific pouches between the utility ones).

British brands offer some variants of their rigs that have smaller pouches mounted outside the main ones, namely the sniper webbing that has velcro closed sniper rifle mag single mag pouches outside of each utility pouch or the radioman webbing that has additional spare batteries pockets.

Are you referencing these old ALICE first aid pouches? They're a perfect fit for my "booboo" kits:











Fair enough. I did modify one Jay Jay's kit belt by adding a butt pack. Much depends on the "mission". I feel I can get more field kit in the buttpack, but if you're disciplined you can still carry a substantial amount with the larger "kit" pouches. Options are good!





ROCK6

ROCK6, let met say there's something to learn from every post of yours i have read.

Regarding buttpack webbing, they have been already for sale since a few years but british buttpacks are basically a double wide utility pouch, more rigid, with a lid that overlaps the sides again to give more structure to the pouch to support eventual load from a pack, also being sewn all around to the belt pad gives it less of a bounce (or am i just overhinking it and splitting hairs?). No storm flap tho.

Don't make me blush

You're right about the "bounce". I really think the six-point harness provide a better management system to really hug a buttpack into the belt better. Ultimately, it's not stuffing your buttpack like a rucksack and knowing when to balance with an actual Bergen/ruck for the heavier items.

ROCK6

From what I've seen, once the belt is around your waist, there tends to be a little gap between the outer 1/3 to 1/2 of the utility pouches.  That would be perfect to nestle things like smoke grenade pouches and other similar sized smaller pouches.  Especially for things LIKE smoke grenades - something you'd potentially want to access without digging through your buttpack or utility pouches.

Definitely pros and cons to the buttpack vs. utility pouches.  And while I make MOLLE buttpacks - it's my most popular item - I personally sew buttpacks onto modern British style belts.  I've found a buttpacks takes up the same space are 2 x British style utility pouches, so they are inter-changeable on the belt kits I make.  I make them both ways.  I actually make slightly smaller utility style pouches as dedicated water bottle pouches, sized specifically for Nalgene bottles w/ nesting pot and stove under it.  I put these to the sides of the buttpack or double full size utility pouches.  (I've currently got a batch of belt kits I'm working on, 1 each in Multicam, Woodland, ATACS-ix, Multicam Tropic, and Rhodesian Brushstroke.  I'll post some pictures when I get them done)  

Sewing them on makes them far more stable than MOLLE or old ALICE attachments.  On my own personal rigs, I sew ALL the pouches on, including the ammo pouches.  But that's because I'm ok with the quad pouches.  But most of them, I sew the buttpack / utility pouches + the water bottle pouches on, and molle columns on the side for ammo pouches.  Like the Jayjays hybrid and Diz's rig.  (And my buttpacks have a fitted lid on them, with little flaps coming down the sides aways, plus I make the lids a little longer than regular buttpacks, in case you want to run something long under the buttpack lid or overstuff it for some reason)

Yea, 6 point harnesses (and 8 point ones like I do) are SIGNIFICANTLY better at load carriage, both for buttpacks and utility pouches.  Like Rock said, it pulls the back pouches in correctly on your body.  The longer panels on the British style harnesses really help too - the ones that come down halfway to 2/3rds the way down your back.  I don't get why people still make H harnesses for belt kit that just drop down webbing from up near your neckline.  I mean, I guess if you are running it under armor only, the armor will keep it in place.  But still.

Yea.  He's referencing the compass pouches.  I'm talking to him about doing a run of them in OCP.  I'm wanting to do a few for myself, I use the old compass pouches to keep altoids tins with stuff like booboo kits, firestarting kits, etc. in.  They really are useful for something you might want easy access to but doesn't take up much space.  Compasses too.

I like buttpacks because I can fit a poncho AND a poncho liner in there, along with a pair of socks, cleaning kit, emergency food for a day, and a handful of other items like foot powder.  That's hard to do with utility pouches.  But again - pros and cons.  

Tweezers, what is the green thing, a tick puller?  Canvas needle?  (What is that around it, shrink tubing?)  And where did you get the scissors from?  Me likey.

Good eye for all.

The scissors are the Swiss card (replacement) scissors. The glover's needle is handy for splinters to repairs, and the little green thing is a tick puller...which we have in abundance during the spring and summer here. Yeah, it's easier to use a little shrink tubing for the needles and scissors.

ROCK6

USGI "Compass/First Aid Dressing" pouches were originally made to use a single ALICE clip to secure the pouch.  Usually, a single Short MALICE clip could be used to secure the pouch, in lieu of original ALICE clip.

If "Re-making" such pouches, strongly suggest making the pouches so that TWO, side-by-side MALICE clips will fit, thus preventing pouch "wobbling" on ALICE/PALS platform.  Also suggest a "pull tab" attached to snap fastener on lid of pouch both as fabric reinforcement for lid snap, and for ease of use with gloved hands.

Today i wrote to a buddy of mine, still Active Duty (maybe i already mentioned It, 15 years ago in Afghanistan he was saying "we'll fight the next war in Alice Gear, no armor, no helmets) , if he would like to try the DiZ rig for a while and give me some feedback (he too loves webbing, but most of the time is not possible for him to wear them).
He told me about his new issued Gear "It sucks, it's time to spend Money again " and we had a talk about the resurgence of belt kits into the civilian/military world and the newly born interest for British kits by American civilians (maybe due to ukraine footage, the envisioning of militia wood patrols in case of SHTF scenarios, the popularity of Brutality® type matches vs. IPSC or maybe just the fashion Pendulum swinging).
He doesnt follow forums, so he did not know about these kind of things.

In his opinion most of the problem Is that loading the armor with items hampers mobility much more than carrying on the belt and they too in their own way (i Guess very differently from what is shown here) are loading belts more and more keeping the armor as slick as possible (which i believe would still be overloaded by civilian standards).

He left me by proudly saying "After two years of searching and spending i have assembled the definitive webbing." He agreed that i could post a picture here when he Will send me One, he got me curious.

Also while Browsing dixies corner website i noticed that they offer Bergen belt pads divided in three pieces or pads for the hip area that somehow reminded me of a very rudimentary version of the removable sides of belt pads that i see in Crossfire packs. I don't own neither of them, i wonder of DiZ took some inspiration from this concept bringing It further.

Yup, looking at double molle.  And a 3/4" fastex buckle so you can adjust how tight to cinch down.