User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 11:17:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Thank you, TNVC and Nocturnand, for your clear statements and input.
FWIW I totally agree that straight up patent infringement should be fought, and is unjust. If the proposal from ANVM were to ban the PEQ lookalikes and similar products, even a rabid 2A absolutist like myself could get behind that. However, the white paper makes no distinction between, say, the original products of Laserspeed or Holosun; and the unambiguous clones of laserboxes, mounts, etc. More to the point, the "chinese optics" subforum which categorizes Somogear, Holosun, and Laserspeed as one in the same, seems to take precisely the same view as ANVM. Namely, that all Chinese products in this industry are equally bad, and should be banned from import. This is naked self interest on the part of these large and established manufacturers. The same manufacturers that have shown time and again that they could not care less about the civilian market. And yes I know that is unfair to the companies' in this space that do honestly support the 2A and care about the US civilian market. But that's the thing about trade organizations, they give a single loud voice to a large group of companies, for better or worse. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 11:52:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: Please keep the conversation civil or you will be banned from the thread - I do NOT want to do that. However, attacking anyone will not be allowed. I understand it is heated, and it is for me, too... I've poured years into this site and thousands of informative posts in these specific forums. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: Please keep the conversation civil or you will be banned from the thread - I do NOT want to do that. However, attacking anyone will not be allowed. I understand it is heated, and it is for me, too... I've poured years into this site and thousands of informative posts in these specific forums. Originally Posted By doggbert556: Interesting. Tell site staff/ mods to leave the NV sub forum alone. Publicly, in this forum, perhaps now. That should put a stop to all the screeching am I right? Nah, honestly, make some lemonade from this. Let the PacRim Night Vision/Thermal forum exist. Talk about all the shit that the purists (gen 3 filmless or perish) don't like cluttering up the main sub. And, make it a vendor free zone. No input, no appearance of impropriety. I haven't been up in here in a long, long time. And I still use what gear I have left; it's not that. Reorg it into the main room being US milspec + photonis. This new room is the digicam masquerading as night vision, all the clones, everything that doesn't have a NSN. Then a room for thermal. Then a room for FAQ, TTP and how to. I understand that too much specialization is frustrating, like having to look at a bunch of greenhouses curious to see what grew overnight. But, if you pay to be here, you can set up 'my board', or just subscribe to the entire sub instead of threads. There's a lot of ways to skin this. I just have felt for a long time that certain topics and aspects regularly get shit on. Not a fault of the mods, or most of the regular players. And, there's not really a whole lot of other places to discuss any of this any more anyway (dunno about all the newer platforms like discord and telegram). Or, even better, a 'pro' sub forum, and then everything else gets dumped into another. (shrugs). I am all for making it better in here, especially the DIY / homebrew aspects, and the TTP discussions. It would help if we understood better why the head shed dropped this decision, but we are all guests at their ranch, and this is the new normal. (shrugs) |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 11:59:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noodles_down: I am CEO at Nocturn Ind. I want to respond to this and create clarity before speculation ensues. We are NOT lobbying anyone and we have not lobbied anyone. We are simply members of the American Night Vision Manufacturers Association and took part in discussions about these topics. I personally was mentioned for bringing up an issue about the chinese circumventing export laws. A white paper was written by the association president and the tariff was proposed by him or some other member. Its intent was to level out the govt. subsidized prices to something more comparable to the US. I do not believe an outright ban was proposed. 45 member companies voted yes to approve the paper. I was given the opportunity to read it ahead of time and I made suggestions that attempted to protect ethical business practices and companies doing business properly. I raised the concern that a 100% tariff would be detrimental to many US companies who use chinese manufacturers for many of their products. Our only interest and goal is to protect IP for its rightful owners. We have made this stance very clear in any and all discussions we have had. We do however support the banning of importing from companies who produce counterfeit product. The problem with this is speculation and speaking without fully understanding or asking questions first. I do not appreciate our company being accussed of lobbying or proposing this tariff. If anyone wants answers from someone involved I am happy to provide them if you ask me. Please be patient however, running a business and taking care of customers takes precident. We have no problem with chinese imported products, we do however have a problem with companies stealing or copying other companies hard work and investments and selling them for a much cheaper price. Some chinese companies make superb products and listen to their customers feedback, I support this. I do not care where a company is from, as long as they practice ethical business. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:06:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noodles_down: I am CEO at Nocturn Ind. I want to respond to this and create clarity before speculation ensues. We are NOT lobbying anyone and we have not lobbied anyone. We are simply members of the American Night Vision Manufacturers Association and took part in discussions about these topics. I personally was mentioned for bringing up an issue about the chinese circumventing export laws. A white paper was written by the association president and the tariff was proposed by him or some other member. Its intent was to level out the govt. subsidized prices to something more comparable to the US. I do not believe an outright ban was proposed. 45 member companies voted yes to approve the paper. I was given the opportunity to read it ahead of time and I made suggestions that attempted to protect ethical business practices and companies doing business properly. I raised the concern that a 100% tariff would be detrimental to many US companies who use chinese manufacturers for many of their products. Our only interest and goal is to protect IP for its rightful owners. We have made this stance very clear in any and all discussions we have had. We do however support the banning of importing from companies who produce counterfeit product. The problem with this is speculation and speaking without fully understanding or asking questions first. I do not appreciate our company being accussed of lobbying or proposing this tariff. If anyone wants answers from someone involved I am happy to provide them if you ask me. Please be patient however, running a business and taking care of customers takes precident. We have no problem with chinese imported products, we do however have a problem with companies stealing or copying other companies hard work and investments and selling them for a much cheaper price. Some chinese companies make superb products and listen to their customers feedback, I support this. I do not care where a company is from, as long as they practice ethical business. Thank you for the update. As I said before, I am all for protecting IP especially as it is conerned and applied to our advanced warfighters. Is the ANVM's intent to ban and or 100% tarriff all imported Chinese Thermal and Night Vision, even for those items not involved in IP theft? |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:17:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: noodles_down]
[#5]
Deleted so that i can quote the response
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:20:05 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: How does any of that translate into having to corral certain companies on this website? Sorry I do not understand what you mean, I was responding to someon elses comment that linked Nocturn as a lobbyist and proposer of this tariff. We absolutely did not do that |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:26:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: Thank you for the update. As I said before, I am all for protecting IP especially as it is conerned and applied to our advanced warfighters. Is the ANVM's intent to ban and or 100% tarriff all imported Chinese Thermal and Night Vision, even for those items not involved in IP theft? The way it is written, it is not seeking a ban, only a tariff. The tariff would make a $200 mount $400. Much closer to the original product it copied, for example. This same idea can be applied to any thermals or night vision devices. So a jerry 31 would be $5000 instead of $2500. That said, it is not specific to stolen IP or copies. I wish it were specific and I wish it were an outright ban only on specific companies. The idea i think is to deincentivize chinese companies and US buyers supporting it. I dont think it is the best approach. I think US companies cracking down on any company selling these stolen IP products is a better approach. The govt doesnt necessarily need to be involved. The biggest concern however is the exporting of US tech to places like china, but thats a different issue. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:30:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shenendoah_rifleman: Thank you, TNVC and Nocturnand, for your clear statements and input. I appreciate the opportunity to respond and forums like this are important to me. I personally am a 2A community member and supporter. I was formerly an R+D engineer at sig and worked on some very popular products. Night vision started as a hobby and I love this community. I would not want to ever bring harm to it. I agree with exactly your sentiments. I am not against chinese imports. I am against infringement. Even simple copying someone elses work, protected or not, is just slimy. The paper is unfortunately not specific and I did advise the dangers in that. Alas it was not my decision. Augee and myself were able to get them to alter the verbiage though in order to better protect the community. It was originally worded in a way that could be perceived as blaming the commercial market. Instead it now reads that the commercial market is more of a victim. We both agreed we did not want a spotlight that could lead to more dangerous unforeseen consequences from the left. I assure you, I am an average dude just trying to have cool shit, protect my family, have fun shooting, and do it all in the dark too. And now i get to make that cool shit for everyone else too. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 1:14:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: chosos]
[#9]
Sorry for sidetracking the thread. This is supposed to be comments about a Chinese NV forum.
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Posted: 4/18/2024 6:42:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: Sorry for sidetracking the thread. This is supposed to be comments about a Chinese NV forum. Seems to me the comments are pretty clear, don’t make the change. Now what? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 7:22:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Horrible_Aim]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noodles_down: I am CEO at Nocturn Ind. I want to respond to this and create clarity before speculation ensues. We are NOT lobbying anyone and we have not lobbied anyone. We are simply members of the American Night Vision Manufacturers Association and took part in discussions about these topics. I personally was mentioned for bringing up an issue about the chinese circumventing export laws. A white paper was written by the association president and the tariff was proposed by him or some other member. Its intent was to level out the govt. subsidized prices to something more comparable to the US. I do not believe an outright ban was proposed. 45 member companies voted yes to approve the paper. I was given the opportunity to read it ahead of time and I made suggestions that attempted to protect ethical business practices and companies doing business properly. I raised the concern that a 100% tariff would be detrimental to many US companies who use chinese manufacturers for many of their products. Our only interest and goal is to protect IP for its rightful owners. We have made this stance very clear in any and all discussions we have had. We do however support the banning of importing from companies who produce counterfeit product. The problem with this is speculation and speaking without fully understanding or asking questions first. I do not appreciate our company being accussed of lobbying or proposing this tariff. If anyone wants answers from someone involved I am happy to provide them if you ask me. Please be patient however, running a business and taking care of customers takes precident. We have no problem with chinese imported products, we do however have a problem with companies stealing or copying other companies hard work and investments and selling them for a much cheaper price. Some chinese companies make superb products and listen to their customers feedback, I support this. I do not care where a company is from, as long as they practice ethical business. These companies price products to us unethically -- Wilcox being probably the worst offender IMO. We are forced to pay grossly inflated military contract pricing, which itself is subsidized by our tax dollars. I really don't feel bad at all. Make a product for the civilian market and price it accordingly, or people will find better solutions. Right now the Chinese are filling that vacuum, not because it's just "cheaper" but because the market is tired of being unethically squeezed to keep insane profit margins on Uncle Sam contracts (which itself is exploitative/unethical in nature) Glad to pay a premium for an American product, but not 4-5x the price to preserve contract markup. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:09:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Horrible_Aim: These companies price products to us unethically -- I really don't feel bad at all. Make a product for the civilian market and price it accordingly, or people will find better solutions. Glad to pay a premium for an American product, but not 4-5x the price to preserve contract markup. I 100% agree with you. We dont have any major govt contracts and I can tell you US manufacturing is very expensive yet we have a molded bino housing MSRP at 1550, 200 more than the chinese clone 1431. China can produce those 1431s for $500 and have threatened to do so but they charge a few hundred more to dealers, talk about gross margins. I can only speak to what we do at Nocturn. We have been able to move to a superior injection molded design and reduce the MSRP by $300. We did not have to lower the price, we did because it is our mission. The tooling investment alone was $130,000. And these are low volume products they take a lot of manual labor to manufacture. Wages in the US are at an all time high and we pay a liveable wage. We have 13 enployees currently and our prices limit our ability to hire staff as fast as we would like to. I make roughly as much as my employees do. We have a mount coming that we priced as low as we could and make enough margin to continue to slowly grow and fund more projects. That mount is roughly $400 and I promise you it costs us much more than half that to produce. We are doing our best. Our MO has always been high end product at midgrade price. If we OEM in china we can cut prices in half, but we simply cant and wont |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:15:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Horrible_Aim: These companies price products to us unethically -- Wilcox being probably the worst offender IMO. We are forced to pay grossly inflated military contract pricing, which itself is subsidized by our tax dollars. I really don't feel bad at all. Make a product for the civilian market and price it accordingly, or people will find better solutions. Right now the Chinese are filling that vacuum, not because it's just "cheaper" but because the market is tired of being unethically squeezed to keep insane profit margins on Uncle Sam contracts (which itself is exploitative/unethical in nature) Glad to pay a premium for an American product, but not 4-5x the price to preserve contract markup. As someone on the inside, this stuff really does cost a lot to manufacture. Low volume sales means the margin has to be higher which is counterproductive to competitive pricing. That said, I have seen some very gross markups on items I know cost only 10% the price to make and it is usually accessories. Night vision itself does not have a high percentage markup. Many dealers get away with way higher markups on the chinese stuff as a matter of fact and consumers are less the wiser because the price is just that much lower. Im sure I will get hate for saying all this, but its the truth. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:36:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Yes, there are too many subforums as it is.
I understand the intent here, but ultimately what does it really accomplish? If the concern is that Chinese night vision is being promoted/hyped, I haven't really seen that. The threads I've read through offer as many negative comments as they do positive and perhaps even more on the negative side. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:28:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: snackle]
[#15]
This is really bad timing.
1. It's a hot topic. 2. Chinese offerings aren't nearly as crap as they used to be - so it doesn't make sense to discuss them separately. They need to be part of the discussion, especially on a go forward basis. Personally, I think that China has been given about a million unfair trade advantages, and I'm in favor of US politicians levelling out the playing field AGGRESSIVELY. Until and unless they do that, the market is what it is, and night vision as an industry should be no different than any other. Heck, they aren't even dumping. Originally Posted By noodles_down: Originally Posted By chosos: Thank you for the update. As I said before, I am all for protecting IP especially as it is conerned and applied to our advanced warfighters. Is the ANVM's intent to ban and or 100% tarriff all imported Chinese Thermal and Night Vision, even for those items not involved in IP theft? The way it is written, it is not seeking a ban, only a tariff. The tariff would make a $200 mount $400. Much closer to the original product it copied, for example. This same idea can be applied to any thermals or night vision devices. So a jerry 31 would be $5000 instead of $2500. That said, it is not specific to stolen IP or copies. I wish it were specific and I wish it were an outright ban only on specific companies. The idea i think is to deincentivize chinese companies and US buyers supporting it. I dont think it is the best approach. I think US companies cracking down on any company selling these stolen IP products is a better approach. The govt doesnt necessarily need to be involved. The biggest concern however is the exporting of US tech to places like china, but thats a different issue. IMHO, the government should be involved, because China's government is involved in dumping, IP theft, asymmetric market access (and tariffs), and many many new and inventive anti-competitive practices. I think the government should have been involved 30 years ago. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 6:37:07 PM EDT
[#16]
@chosos don’t go quiet on us now. Based on the comments this new forum idea dead or what?
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USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:24:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Yes, there are too many subforums as it is. I understand the intent here, but ultimately what does it really accomplish? The intent is essentially removing useful information from the main forum because of competitive fears. The core problem here is that the site is letting their sponsors have editorial control, which is flat-out the wrong way to go. The intent is to exercise changes to make the sponsors happy. I am strongly against another subforum. If anything, the existing subforums probably should be combined. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:10:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chosos]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: @chosos don’t go quiet on us now. Based on the comments this new forum idea dead or what? I am just a lowly mod here that helps clean up offending posts and from time to time I also remove some of the personal attacks. I stepped up because nobody else seemed to want to and this is one of the oldest NV groups out there. Still - I assure you - I have zero say or ability to impact or directly change the structure of the site. I might be able to directly impact your user account, but not the site as a whole. My replies will first and foremost come as a long time paying member. If you have any questions about the forum format, you need to direct them to senior site staff - Administrators or other paid staff. My feedback to administration is also to merge the sub forums like it was in the past. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:51:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: I am just a lowly mod here that helps clean up offending posts and from time to time I also remove some of the personal attacks. I stepped up because nobody else seemed to want to and this is one of the oldest NV groups out there. Still - I assure you - I have zero say or ability to impact or directly change the structure of the site. I might be able to directly impact your user account, but not the site as a whole. My replies will first and foremost come as a long time paying member. If you have any questions about the forum format, you need to direct them to senior site staff - Administrators or other paid staff. My feedback to administration is also to merge the sub forums like it was in the past. Thanks choso - who specifically should be tagged? To bring in this thread to share the input of us the membership/customers. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:33:06 AM EDT
[#20]
One more vote to merge the subforums for NV. I joined arf for the NV forum years ago and it is significantly worse to navigate since the great dispersion.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:48:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By erwos: The intent is essentially removing useful information from the main forum because of competitive fears. The core problem here is that the site is letting their sponsors have editorial control, which is flat-out the wrong way to go. The intent is to exercise changes to make the sponsors happy. I am strongly against another subforum. If anything, the existing subforums probably should be combined. And the unintended consequence may be that a bunch of people stop paying their $25 a year, and sales numbers drop for these companies. Dumb idea to not put the customer first. Disney and Bud Light are trying this now - not working out to well for them. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:09:06 PM EDT
[#22]
The people have spoken. I guess the only question left is when will the Chinese NV Forum be deleted?
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:50:57 PM EDT
[#23]
@chosos - who specifically do we need to bring in to this thread to get a decision made?
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:25:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chosos]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: @chosos - who specifically do we need to bring in to this thread to get a decision made? You keep tagging me, but you realize it was a site admin that created this thread, right? Where your bronze contributing member icon is - if you hover over that for other users, it will tell you the user's account type. There are likely other contact links within the site, as well. https://www.ar15.com/about/help.html Might have more, but I am certain Admin staff are already aware of the thread, since they created it. I can't really say much else, because I know about as much as you do. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:09:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chaas67]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: You keep tagging me, but you realize it was a site admin that created this thread, right? Where your bronze contributing member icon is - if you hover over that for other users, it will tell you the user's account type. There are likely other contact links within the site, as well. https://www.ar15.com/about/help.html Might have more, but I am certain Admin staff are already aware of the thread, since they created it. I can't really say much else, because I know about as much as you do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: Originally Posted By chaas67: @chosos - who specifically do we need to bring in to this thread to get a decision made? You keep tagging me, but you realize it was a site admin that created this thread, right? Where your bronze contributing member icon is - if you hover over that for other users, it will tell you the user's account type. There are likely other contact links within the site, as well. https://www.ar15.com/about/help.html Might have more, but I am certain Admin staff are already aware of the thread, since they created it. I can't really say much else, because I know about as much as you do. No I didn’t - I see the bolt icon but I don’t know all the little tips and tricks of the site. Respectfully, I don’t know why you keep dodging answering the very specific question being asked. I’ll take the nugget of information you gave and leave you alone. @stylz - based on all the comments in the thread, it’s fair to say that the membership/customers do not want this latest change and want the Chinese NV forum shutdown and all the thread moved back. How quickly can this be done? |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 12:41:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Another vote for eliminating the extra sub forums.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:02:57 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm under the impression most people here is in agreement that "American Civilians should be able to get GNPVG-18 at the store" as am I and that PLA's level of tech should be "lol eat more carrots" I feel like this is the starting point we should go after.
The ANVM's letter seems to have this feel but the wording is very poor, Point 2: China is enabled in this as a large group of us (myself included) don't want to pay more than 10k for these capabilities, and they are able to manufacture them at a price point that encourages a lot of people to purchase at. Point 3 (Main Point) I am in favor of a dedicated sub-forum for these optics and devices as they are very popular however these discussions lose technical merit and tend to turn into arguments about "don't buy china", if isolated I feel that could subside. Side-point: the Airsoft forum was mentioned, many years ago a some members wanted a airsoft category but that was repeatedly shot down as "we don't want airsofters coming here" was a argument, and when the paintball category was created we asked if we would be welcome there, NO was the answer, so seeing it come to this circle was very interesting to me. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:17:46 PM EDT
[#28]
You all realize when everyone can afford these they are no longer an advantage right. You are now at a disadvantage.
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Posted: 4/20/2024 2:03:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: You all realize when everyone can afford these they are no longer an advantage right. You are now at a disadvantage. AR’s are already cheap, does that mean we give up since we are at a disadvantage? Training, tactics, practice and mindset are the next steps in being successful with NV technology. Having the tech is the first step not the last step. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 2:14:31 PM EDT
[#30]
@stylz - can you or the appropriate person please respond to this thread and explain how the NV forums can be streamlined based on input in this thread?
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Posted: 4/20/2024 3:05:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: AR’s are already cheap, does that mean we give up since we are at a disadvantage? Training, tactics, practice and mindset are the next steps in being successful with NV technology. Having the tech is the first step not the last step. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: Originally Posted By jon101st: You all realize when everyone can afford these they are no longer an advantage right. You are now at a disadvantage. AR’s are already cheap, does that mean we give up since we are at a disadvantage? Training, tactics, practice and mindset are the next steps in being successful with NV technology. Having the tech is the first step not the last step. Give up? nothing I said has any thing to do with that response. Helping the Chinese develop better tech and cheaper tech is not a good thing. Americans are easily bought out. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 3:10:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jon101st: Give up? nothing I said has any thing to do with that response. Helping the Chinese develop better tech and cheaper tech is not a good thing. Americans are easily bought out. Fair enough - I’m won’t further derail this thread from its original intent. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 2:54:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Appears mods/admin/staff at any level are not interested in discussing this with the membership/customers.
I shouldn’t be surprised but i am disappointed. |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 11:35:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By chaas67: Appears mods/admin/staff at any level are not interested in discussing this with the membership/customers. I shouldn't be surprised but i am disappointed. Please don't take my lack of availability to mean that all mods/staff/admin aren't interested in feedback. However, the decisions being made regarding the NV forum are coming solely from me and Goatboy. No other Mods, Staff or Sr Staff is behind the changes, so please keep that in mind. I will be discussing additional changes and merging sub forums with GB later today and will pop back in with updates. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:39:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: doge_hound_57]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: I have read that that various companies are currently lobbying the House Armed Services Committee (Honorable Mike Rogers, R, AL) trying to ban or place 100% tax tariffs on any Chinese NV and Thermal items via the ANVM https://www.nightvisionassociation.org/newsletters/q4-2023/ Detrimental Effects of Chinese Night Vision Equipment Manufacturer’s Involvement in U.S. Commercial Market Require Immediate Corrective Action https://www.nightvisionassociation.org/sites/default/assets/Files/China_Night_Vision_Problem_Final.pdf I am probably going to reach out to the ANVM and inquire about more details, as well. I want to come at this from a curious standpoint because we certainly don't want China's low-light capabilities to ever exceed our own. This was announced on May 1st and Iray was listed: https://www.state.gov/imposing-new-measures-on-russia-for-its-full-scale-war-and-use-of-chemical-weapons-against-ukraine-2/ Dunno if they had any influence from ANVM. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 9:38:11 AM EDT
[#36]
Ah this again. Someone in senior staff really despises us that use and purchase China made gear.
Whoever that is better be careful. you’re really showing that you view paying members of this site as customers and not “members” of this community. Hopefully that doesn’t lead to continued decreasing engagement and knowledgeable people leaving. Oh wait that’s already happening. Someone can’t read the room. Or they can but don’t really give a shit. |
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Posted: Yesterday 4:57:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TigerHawk: Someone can't read the room. Or they can but don't really give a shit. I am no arf apologist, but clearly they think they know something, they don't see a benefit of sharing what they think they know, and this is what it is. Honestly, the answer with what you all can do here is pretty glaringly obvious if you step back and think about it. They feel obligated to create a subforum to be able to continue giving us a place to talk about these items. This response had to have been agreeable to whoever had the issue. It would be interesting to see if the segregation were not about impending regulation, but complaints that IP theft/inexpensive knockoffs was viewed to be hurting sales and site sponsors were threatening to pull their money... (I can't read the bigger room, I just want certain capabilities without paying what Tier 0 equities pay for the same sort of ability) |
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PA, USA
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Posted: Yesterday 5:44:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: It would be interesting to see if the segregation were not about impending regulation, but complaints that IP theft/inexpensive knockoffs was viewed to be hurting sales and site sponsors were threatening to pull their money... This is the most likely reason A certain party was VERY active in the Somogear threads and had an unusually suspicious level of concern over Chinese LAMs. Just Google this party with "fraud" next to the acronym and its clear commercial sales were already hurting |
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OR, USA
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Posted: Today 1:42:27 AM EDT
[#39]
A good many components in consumer electronics come from China. If the Chinese manufacture an item, even if it is fashioned like an expensive, Berry compliant twin for marketing purposes but does not claim to be by using the brand name, I want to know
whether the thing is worth the price. Not every gun I own is for battle. Not every light I own is an EDC or safety of life tool. Part of my life revolves around fun. Therefore, I have no desire to buy the high end gear 30 times over regardless who sponsors the site. If someone bought an Item, I will read his review and buy whatever I please. Sure, I don't want to further China's iniatives. But, so far I haven't come close to the contributions our own government has made to China, and not a single Chinese item I have bought cost a US firm a sale. Because nearly every Chinese item I have was purchased from a US firm, and the 100% US only firms don't sell items in the same class as those. |
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ISR
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Posted: Today 5:46:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Does anyone know when new NNVT tubes are coming out? High gain? NVT-8? Something else?
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