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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2023 4:23:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FullAssault: I might grab one regardless if it gets down to $999 That would be a great deal. Things are getting cheaper out there. A 5.56 Sig Spear carbine went for $1,800 used last night. That’s the lowest I’ve seen for that model. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/7/2023 1:02:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Sign up for notifications and get 10% off at Midway USA. Carmel for $1490 free shipping. They have 5.56 or 7.62NATO Tavors in stock also.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 10/12/2023 7:40:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Economy that bad right now. We're seeing it at the shop I'm working at: more people selling used guns than buying new. And lots of "OMG, I want that!" retail therapy types...that trade the old hotness in for the new hotness inside a month.
I did pick up a Carmel. Little heavy, looking forward to running it through it's paces. I would also prefer the original Israeli handguard with pic rails. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 10/14/2023 1:18:53 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 10/26/2023 6:36:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Just pulled the trigger on a Carmel from battlehawk armory.
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USA
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Posted: 10/26/2023 9:10:31 PM EDT
[#6]
I have only fired about 40 rounds through one. Watching it get field stripped and cleaned reminded me of the ARX-100. Unlike the ARX, the Carmel showed decent accuracy.
I'd like to shoot one some more. Not sure if I'd buy one. |
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Posted: 10/29/2023 9:21:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: I have only fired about 40 rounds through one. Watching it get field stripped and cleaned reminded me of the ARX-100. Unlike the ARX, the Carmel showed decent accuracy. I'd like to shoot one some more. Not sure if I'd buy one. The 16" barrel on the ARX suffers from significant barrel lash because of the captured piston design, handguard length, and mounting system. And the flex in the upper receiver because of the bidirectional ejection openings. A short barrel on the ARX gets much better groups, with the Italian 13-something issue barrel probably being the best. I would expect a more traditional piston system, along with a more rigid mounting base to get better results. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/29/2023 3:11:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By homeyclaus: The 16" barrel on the ARX suffers from significant barrel lash because of the captured piston design, handguard length, and mounting system. And the flex in the upper receiver because of the bidirectional ejection openings. A short barrel on the ARX gets much better groups, with the Italian 13-something issue barrel probably being the best. I would expect a more traditional piston system, along with a more rigid mounting base to get better results. I have a 10.25 and a 16 inch bbl shortened to 13.5. My not so scientific use of both barrels, on two rifles, has left me disappointed in the platform no matter the barrel length. They have been as relaible as they come, but they are being parted out. |
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Posted: 10/29/2023 5:28:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: I have a 10.25 and a 16 inch bbl shortened to 13.5. My not so scientific use of both barrels, on two rifles, has left me disappointed in the platform no matter the barrel length. They have been as relaible as they come, but they are being parted out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: Originally Posted By homeyclaus: The 16" barrel on the ARX suffers from significant barrel lash because of the captured piston design, handguard length, and mounting system. And the flex in the upper receiver because of the bidirectional ejection openings. A short barrel on the ARX gets much better groups, with the Italian 13-something issue barrel probably being the best. I would expect a more traditional piston system, along with a more rigid mounting base to get better results. I have a 10.25 and a 16 inch bbl shortened to 13.5. My not so scientific use of both barrels, on two rifles, has left me disappointed in the platform no matter the barrel length. They have been as relaible as they come, but they are being parted out. I totally agree, from the bench the ARX sucks. At a match and in training it seems about the same as a cheap AR in spite of everything. YMMV |
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USA
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Posted: 10/30/2023 5:09:34 PM EDT
[#10]
I had my Carmel cerakoted in Burnt Bronze.
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Posted: 11/1/2023 5:43:23 AM EDT
[#11]
And now a recall:
https://iwi.us/carmelrecall/ IWI US, Inc. (“IWI”) has determined that the Carmel Rifle has a safety issue with the firing pin blocker and is thereby subject to a Safety Warning and Recall Notice. IWI is issuing this mandatory recall to repair the safety issue in the specific Carmel rifles listed below. IWI will correct these recalled firearms at no cost to the customer, and this recall does not affect any other IWI products. This safety recall notice affects 1,094 Carmel rifles within the following serial number range. CH001385 – CH003328 |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 4:47:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBXT: And now a recall: https://iwi.us/carmelrecall/ IWI US, Inc. (“IWI”) has determined that the Carmel Rifle has a safety issue with the firing pin blocker and is thereby subject to a Safety Warning and Recall Notice. IWI is issuing this mandatory recall to repair the safety issue in the specific Carmel rifles listed below. IWI will correct these recalled firearms at no cost to the customer, and this recall does not affect any other IWI products. This safety recall notice affects 1,094 Carmel rifles within the following serial number range. CH001385 – CH003328 Lovely. Probably most, if not all, of the guns already sold fall in that serial number range. What is it with companies putting out a new product and immediately having a recall on it? Looks like you have to send your entire gun back. They pay for shipping, but it usually means have to find a box. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 5:27:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Well the Carmel that I picked up was in the effected serial number range. Its all boxed up and will go to UPS tomorrow. Be interesting to see how quickly IWI gets em turned around.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2023 2:55:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Sent mine off today. Thank goodness I kept the box, and have a bigger box to ship the gun box back in. Still don’t understand what the issue is, or why the entire gun has to be sent in. If it’s an issue with the firing pin block, send in the bolt and carrier. No real reason to have to ship the full gun.
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USA
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Posted: 11/8/2023 3:25:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: Sent mine off today. Thank goodness I kept the box, and have a bigger box to ship the gun box back in. Still don’t understand what the issue is, or why the entire gun has to be sent in. If it’s an issue with the firing pin block, send in the bolt and carrier. No real reason to have to ship the full gun. It’s probably so they can function test everything before sending back to the owner. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 3:56:30 PM EDT
[#16]
The Carmel recall has to be about the stealthiest recall out there. Nothing on the US IWI main page, or on the Carmel product page. You have to go to the support menu, and select Carmel Recall. In other words, you have to know to go look for it. Stopped by my LGS today and asked if the Carmel they had on display was one of the ones not affected by the recall, and they know nothing about it. I had even warranty registered my gun with IWI, and then never contacted me.
Pretty sad. Can only assume that they don’t want the public embarrassment of having their new gun recalled. |
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Posted: 11/16/2023 1:31:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: akguy1985]
[#17]
Picked up my Carmel from my FFL guy yesterday.
ETA: Now I see the recall, damnit! I'm going to have to check my serial number. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 10:34:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Anyone who sent in their Carmel for the recall gotten it back yet? Sent mine in a month ago and nothing other than notification that they received it. I know they said 4 weeks, and they seem to be keeping to that.
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Posted: 12/10/2023 9:14:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Haven't sent mine back yet, maybe I'll avoid the rush
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2023 2:38:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ARguy]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: Anyone who sent in their Carmel for the recall gotten it back yet? Sent mine in a month ago and nothing other than notification that they received it. I know they said 4 weeks, and they seem to be keeping to that. Mine was sent in on November 3rd I believe. I actually got two emails from IWI on this past Thursday. One was a "Return Received Confirmation" and the second on the same day was a "RMA Completed" email saying that my Carmel was on its way back to me. It is currently "Out For Delivery" with UPS. Assuming UPS doesn't drop the ball..... 11/3 to 12/18 for total process. ETA.... Well UPS just dropped it off. RMA Sales Order says they replaced the firing pin blocker, firing pin spring, and reworked the gas regulator. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/18/2023 3:47:28 PM EDT
[#21]
I finally filled out the form online to send mine back.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2023 6:32:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: willi3d]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARguy: Mine was sent in on November 3rd I believe. I actually got two emails from IWI on this past Thursday. One was a "Return Received Confirmation" and the second on the same day was a "RMA Completed" email saying that my Carmel was on its way back to me. It is currently "Out For Delivery" with UPS. Assuming UPS doesn't drop the ball..... 11/3 to 12/18 for total process. ETA.... Well UPS just dropped it off. RMA Sales Order says they replaced the firing pin blocker, firing pin spring, and reworked the gas regulator. Interesting about the gas regulator. I wonder what they did to that. ETA: Mine came back yesterday. Originally sent out Nov. 8, so six weeks. Same notes on the paperwork. At least it’s back before Christmas. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2023 2:32:55 AM EDT
[#23]
I’m still holding out for someone (anyone) makes a handguard that emulates the look of the original/military version of the Carmel. It looks like Sven at Manticore Arms is my only hope for the time being.
Would prefer 1913 rails under the panels, IE as close to the original as possible. Still disappointed in IWI USA for bastardizing this rifle for the US market. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/29/2023 5:36:44 PM EDT
[#24]
What is the actual problem? What could go wrong if not "fixed"
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2023 7:21:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ClickClickBoom1: What is the actual problem? What could go wrong if not "fixed" From what I’ve heard, there was a material issue with the firing pin safety. I assume the concern is that it would break. That said, I’m somewhat disappointed in the IWI has handled this. Their process for getting the gun returned and back was fine, except for taking a while. But, their transparency on what the issue was, and notification to owners that there was a recall in the first place, is solely lacking. Still not sure what they did to the gas regulator. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/30/2023 10:41:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: From what I’ve heard, there was a material issue with the firing pin safety. I assume the concern is that it would break. That said, I’m somewhat disappointed in the IWI has handled this. Their process for getting the gun returned and back was fine, except for taking a while. But, their transparency on what the issue was, and notification to owners that there was a recall in the first place, is solely lacking. Still not sure what they did to the gas regulator. Dead Air says, "Hold my beer..." |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2024 7:24:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Sent mine off, was told to expect 4 week turn around. It came back right at the 4 week point. Same form letter attached about what was replaced. No other issues to report, now need to take it back out to the range.
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USA
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Posted: 1/10/2024 6:49:31 PM EDT
[#28]
What was replaced?
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USA
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Posted: 1/29/2024 10:06:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Does anybody know what the recall was for?
What was the defect? Has anyone held off sending there rifle in for the warranty update? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/30/2024 9:10:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ClickClickBoom1: What was replaced? My invoice says: carmel firing pin blocker carmel firing pin spring |
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USA
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Posted: 2/3/2024 9:27:01 AM EDT
[#31]
I got mine back. They were asked to test fire it and noted that they did on the paperwork. I had mine coated in burnt bronze before it went back to IWI and never had fired it prior to the cerakoting but I can’t seem to operate the gas settings as it’s been a single shot firearm since day 1 for me. I have to work the charging handle after every shot.
It’s probably user error since every reviewer on YouTube says theirs runs great. Or maybe the coating is giving just enough drag on the inner surfaces to not allow it to cycle with underpowered wolf .223 but my other coated guns don’t have that issue. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 11:43:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Haven't sent mine yet
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Posted: 2/6/2024 11:43:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Citizen904: I got mine back. They were asked to test fire it and noted that they did on the paperwork. I had mine coated in burnt bronze before it went back to IWI and never had fired it prior to the cerakoting but I can’t seem to operate the gas settings as it’s been a single shot firearm since day 1 for me. I have to work the charging handle after every shot. It’s probably user error since every reviewer on YouTube says theirs runs great. Or maybe the coating is giving just enough drag on the inner surfaces to not allow it to cycle with underpowered wolf .223 but my other coated guns don’t have that issue. Are you saying you cerakoted the INSIDE of the receiver? If so why? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/8/2024 4:21:50 PM EDT
[#34]
For anyone who went to SHOT, was there any sign of aftermarket support for the Carmel ??
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2024 10:35:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: That doesn’t look shorter to me. The handguard has the same number of slots, 4 on the bottom, and 2 on the top, with the cutout for the gas adjustment still needed because the handguard goes past the plug. The uncovered portion of the barrel still seems about the same to me. Think the image may just be a little distorted in that stamp. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By Solo_: I was just noticing how on IWI's advertisement of the Carmel (that stamp shaped thing that appears on some gun sites), the barrel is DEFINITELY shorter - to offset the frankly weird balance of longer, 16.1" barrels (plus muzzle devices) that also were affecting many other rifles (ARX, ACR etc.) Have a look - seems like probably a pinned and welded barrel I don't blame them, it's a US federal thing but still https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/326068/Screenshot_2023-09-03_at_11_29_09_AM-2941232.png That doesn’t look shorter to me. The handguard has the same number of slots, 4 on the bottom, and 2 on the top, with the cutout for the gas adjustment still needed because the handguard goes past the plug. The uncovered portion of the barrel still seems about the same to me. Think the image may just be a little distorted in that stamp. It’s the flashlight partially blocking the barrel. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2024 10:47:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Maybe IWI will see the error of their ways and offer the handguard we all want.
SIG figured it out after a time. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:26:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SemperGumbi: Are you saying you cerakoted the INSIDE of the receiver? If so why? I did not do it. I had a shop do it that has been coating guns for a long time. They ended up doing several guns of mine and this is the only gun that had an issue. I was also surprised to see it on the inside. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:53:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Citizen904: I did not do it. I had a shop do it that has been coating guns for a long time. They ended up doing several guns of mine and this is the only gun that had an issue. I was also surprised to see it on the inside. That is crazy. I would be pissed. Why in the world would you paint the inside? Isn't the receiver on the carmel polymer anyway? |
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Posted: 2/28/2024 12:26:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SperlingPE: Maybe IWI will see the error of their ways and offer the handguard we all want. SIG figured it out after a time. I just ordered one from Buds that supposedly has the original hand guard. I chatted with customer service to verify and they confirmed that it does. It's labeled the "Carmel LE". Hopefully it's true because I hate the way the mLok hand guard looks |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2024 3:46:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rear_Entry_Vehicle: I just ordered one from Buds that supposedly has the original hand guard. I chatted with customer service to verify and they confirmed that it does. It's labeled the "Carmel LE". Hopefully it's true because I hate the way the mLok hand guard looks Please keep us posted. A search for "Carmel LE" only revealed the aluminum HG... https://iwi.us/product-category/law-enforcement/le-carmel/ |
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Posted: 2/28/2024 4:07:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: Please keep us posted. A search for "Carmel LE" only revealed the aluminum HG... https://iwi.us/product-category/law-enforcement/le-carmel/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: Originally Posted By Rear_Entry_Vehicle: I just ordered one from Buds that supposedly has the original hand guard. I chatted with customer service to verify and they confirmed that it does. It's labeled the "Carmel LE". Hopefully it's true because I hate the way the mLok hand guard looks Please keep us posted. A search for "Carmel LE" only revealed the aluminum HG... https://iwi.us/product-category/law-enforcement/le-carmel/ Item Link I'll update when I receive the item. Link above is what I purchased |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2024 5:07:58 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm pretty desperate for one with the OG hand guard. I chatted with them too, but got a different answer. It seems others are asking on the product page too with no clear answer.
Me: Can you confirm item 818004021842 looks as pictured? With a polymer hand guard instead of an aluminum mlok hand guard as in item 818004021835. Them: The specifications I have indicate that it is aluminum. Some more searching of LECSR16 shows some descriptions as Mlok... https://www.provenoutfitters.com/carmel-rifle-5-56-nato-16-barrel While others say picatinny... https://www.krollcorp.com/iwi-lecsr16-carmel-le.html Clear as mud 
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Posted: 2/28/2024 5:20:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: I'm pretty desperate for one with the OG hand guard. I chatted with them too, but got a different answer. It seems others are asking on the product page too with no clear answer. Me: Can you confirm item 818004021842 looks as pictured? With a polymer hand guard instead of an aluminum mlok hand guard as in item 818004021835. Them: The specifications I have indicate that it is aluminum. Some more searching of LECSR16 shows some descriptions as Mlok... https://www.provenoutfitters.com/carmel-rifle-5-56-nato-16-barrel While others say picatinny... https://www.krollcorp.com/iwi-lecsr16-carmel-le.html Clear as mud Well that's aggravating. Guess I'll be the guinea pig and will report back |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2024 6:23:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rear_Entry_Vehicle: Well that's aggravating. Guess I'll be the guinea pig and will report back That version simply does not exist in the US. The LE prefix just indicates the SKU is meant for LE pricing. The stock images are bad. |
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Posted: 2/28/2024 8:08:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PineChaos: That version simply does not exist in the US. The LE prefix just indicates the SKU is meant for LE pricing. The stock images are bad. I'm beginning to think you are correct. Well if it does end up having the mLok rail I'll contact buds and see what they can do for me since they led me astray |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2024 10:32:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rear_Entry_Vehicle: I'm beginning to think you are correct. Well if it does end up having the mLok rail I'll contact buds and see what they can do for me since they led me astray Buds has been using the old stock photo of the Carmel since day 1. Hell they use wrong photos a lot. Their customer service employees are mostly idiots. You're going to ask Buds what they can do for you since you failed to look up and cross reference the UPC they provide on the product page?....Ha! You'll be lucky to get a $5 discount code. |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 12:54:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phenylpropanolamine: Buds has been using the old stock photo of the Carmel since day 1. Hell they use wrong photos a lot. Their customer service employees are mostly idiots. You're going to ask Buds what they can do for you since you failed to look up and cross reference the UPC they provide on the product page?....Ha! You'll be lucky to get a $5 discount code. I did reference the UPC. This one doesn't come up with much. A few gun broker listings, one of which claims to have the picatinny rail, not the mLok version, and this Buds listing. The buds listing for the non "LE" version has the mLok rail pictured and has a different UPC. I appreciate the insightful response though |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/1/2024 10:51:47 PM EDT
[#48]
I just ordered one from buds also a few days ago; I was hoping for the LE model in the picture. I'm sure the standard US model will show up
That being said I hope there are aftermarket handguards available sometime to mimic the military model |
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USA
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Posted: 3/1/2024 10:56:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rear_Entry_Vehicle: I'm beginning to think you are correct. Well if it does end up having the mLok rail I'll contact buds and see what they can do for me since they led me astray Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rear_Entry_Vehicle: Originally Posted By PineChaos: That version simply does not exist in the US. The LE prefix just indicates the SKU is meant for LE pricing. The stock images are bad. I'm beginning to think you are correct. Well if it does end up having the mLok rail I'll contact buds and see what they can do for me since they led me astray From what I understand that rail never went into major production. It was a prototype on the prototype builds. Military Arms Channel did a video about that. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/2/2024 8:31:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CJofFL]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: From what I understand that rail never went into major production. It was a prototype on the prototype builds. Military Arms Channel did a video about that. That’s not believable considering IWI was already delivering the Carmel in early 2019, 4 years before the neutered 2023 US model without QD barrel and accompanying handguard… https://iwi.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Small-Arms-Defense-Journal-article.pdf |
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