Anybody heard of or tried one of these.  The price tag looks to be comfortably under a hundred bucks, which would make it worth not going through the effort of making one myself on a Form 1.  I've never seen anything about them and after doing a Google search for reviews I can't find anything.  They are made nearby in Hiram, GA so that may be a good feature as well.  I was just hoping somebody here has some info about the can.  I found one for sale on Gunbroker.com and I was able to find their web site at http://www.c3defenseinc.com/KISS/index.cfm  but there really isn't any info on the web page at this time.

Usually I stick with that line of reason but It looks like the company makes some high end stuff and has just recently started selling suppresors.  I'm going to follow up on a lead given to me by another user here and hopefully get more info, or better yet put some rounds through one myself.  I'd really like to compare it to my Pilot.  I'm trying to get some more toys before "B. Hussein" and company try to end sales of them.

Any silencer sold for under $100 is likely made of cheap materials and contains a handful of washers as baffles.  Advanced, machined baffles are not going to come in a sub-$100 can.  It probably sounds like shit, or is much larger than other .22 cans to make up for the crappy baffle stack.

There really wouldn't be any reason for the can to be low quality at that price point.  When you figure it only costs a couple of bucks in materials to make some decent baffles, and the figure the cost of turning out hundreds of them is relatively low on a CNC lathe it is obvious that there is a failrly large profit margin on silencers.  I have come to believe that the only reason why people are under the impression that "good" cans cost a couple hundred dollars is because we have been led to believe is a good price by the folks that do a better job marketing theie hype than making a better can than others.  I've seen plenty of form 1 jobs that have under 20 dollars in materials invested, plus a single days worth of work on manual lathes, and they perform as well as the one I paid a bundle for.  I'm hoping that the C3 product will be a good inexpensive can and potentially force some others to lower their prices to stay in the game.  A little competition can be a good thing for us buyers so I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and trash something new to try and convince myself that I didn't get taken when I paid $300 for my .22 can last year.  I could be wrong, but hopefully not.  I'd still like to hear an unbiased review or try one myself before spending the money on the stamp.

I just sent C3 a request for info (db ratings, materials, baffle type, etc.) so hopefully I'll get a reply and at least get some basic info to post.

A single day of work for a machine operator is worth at least $150-200 in hourly wages.  Your guy may have only spent $20 on materials, but if he was trying to sell them for a profit, he would have to pay himself a fair salary, and that would be a $200-300 silencer.  This one you're looking at is profitable at under $100, which means there wasn't much time spent in making the baffles and assembling it.

Every couple of months someone comes here and posts a thread asking about some crappy brand of silencer (Lauer, this one, etc.) and then gets all indignant when everyone points out that it is crappy.  If you already had your mind made up to buy one, and that it would probably be a great can, what is the point of this thread?  If a company was selling well-built .22 cans for $89, don't you think we would be buying them by the armload?

It appears that the OP doesn't think we (ARFCOMers) would be buying "armloads" of quality suppressors @ $89 each because we wouldn't even give them a shot to prove their quality.  We'd see the $89 price tag and just assume it's crap.

But to be honest, the old adage, "You get what you pay for," generally holds true.  That's why, in the back of my selfish mind, I hope somebody else is kind enough to front the cash for one of these suppressors and give us an honest, objective review.  Just because it's inexpensive doesn't automatically eliminate the possibility of a quality (or at least, serviceable) product.

And I would agree with the OP.

I got a HP. LLC Checkmate when they were an unknown quantity (My SN is less than 10).

I paid much less than a comperable "big name" can and got what I believe to be a better product.

There is definately a fear of new things here. If it dosent have a track record three miles long, no one wants to give it the time of day.

There's truth there.  I'm willing to be proven wrong on this one - indeed, I hope I'm proven wrong on this one, since a source of quality .22 cans for $89 would be awesome.  But, as Dustin1911 said, I'll be waiting for someone else to try it first.  Adding tax and transfer would make it a $389, 3-month gamble for me, and that's too rich for my blood.

Looking back at what the OP asked, I'd say it's an easy bet.  He's thinking of this instead of a Form 1 can, which typically are not going to beat out the best in industry.  So with that said, what does it matter if the C3 can is not highly competative?  If his expectation is set to the level of a form 1 can, then I would imagine he'll end up quite happy.  He'll just lose out on the satisfaction of building his own can.

Go ahead and buy one!  And then return and report.  

Sounded familiar...then I noticed you were from UT.

I couldn't help it.  It's so darn versatile!

I have been looking at these also.  I think a person who is familiar with machining equipment, tools, methods, etc. and has bulk supplies could easily manufacture a quality suppressor for the $90 price tag.  I am on the verge of ordering one and paying the tax and the transfer fee.

I have looked at several cross-sectional views of several "Cans" and cannot see why the cost is so freaking high.  

There are tons of products that are far more labor intensive and require far more different fitted parts for the same price or less.

If someone does get one shortly please post.  If I get one I will also post.  I have two house payments to make right now - damn the market - so I need to save the funds up.

This is not a realistic view of the machining industry.  A quality baffle machined on a quality machine, setup on a continuous cycle would be a couple minutes a baffle on about $60k+ equipment (this is the least expensive setup that I believe would be feasible to attempt large volume production with).  Take 5 baffles and you have 10 minutes in machine time.  The endcaps will run probably another 3 minutes each and the tube will still require a manual operation bringing it to at least 5 minutes.  Now we are at 21 minutes of machine time per suppressor (this does not include any set up time either).  Add the machine time cost to the inflated price of material right now plus engraving time, plus finishing cost, plus time to file the required paperwork and there is no way it will work out to that price point and be anything worth bragging about.  There are corners that can be cut to reduce the cost but I want to place an emphasis on the cutting corners portion of it.

I just can't see that the $200 stamp is worth paying for in this case.

You're lucky they are not more expensive than they are.  It cost a lot of money to machine something and still make a dime.  If you look at an AR receiver, the only reason it's so cheap is that there are tons being sold and it justifies the forging process to help get it close to shape before machining.  If the same amount of receivers were sold as silencers, the cost would be astronomical.  I'm really surprised manufacturers have been able to sell these at the prices they are.

Are there any pictures of this thing?  Their website has some pics of ARs and that's it.

+1 on this option.  These cans are literally being sold for less than they cost to produce.  I know this for a fact.

To the OP.  You must not have any experience in the machining world?  Have you priced out QUALITY carbide tooling?  I am not talking about offshore shit, but name brand US made stuff.  You can only make so many cuts with an endmill or lathe cutter before it it dull or damaged.  Make too aggressive of a cut with a 3/8 or 1/2 endmill and grenade it, and there goes $30-40.  Then there is the tens of thousands of dollars that the machines cost.  You also have upkeep on the equipment.  SOT license fees.  Many industry cans have EDM cut bores which is not cheap.  I would bet that for under $100 you are getting a piece of pipe with washers welded on the inside.  Otherwise, that guy is selling his stuff for a loss.  There is not as big of a profit margin on cans as you would think.

No offense, but I don't think you know what you are looking at in a cross section view of a can to think that they are not labor intensive precision pieces.  Quality cans are not something that are thrown together in someone's garage with a drill press, hacksaw, and file.  They are assemblies of pieces that are held to thousandths of an inch.  It costs more than $90 to EDM a bore, laser engrave, and apply a finish to a can.  Depending on what type of materials are used (aluminum, stainless, or inconel) you can have more than $90 in material cost, and easily into the hundreds of dollars for an all stainless/inconel can.

Hello Everyone. It has been brought to my attention that there are some concerns about the quality and the possibility of manufacturing a suppressor for around 89.00.  I would first like to introduce myself. My name is Buzz Baker, current CEO for C3 Defense, Inc. and with have being personally and financially envolved with Cobb Mfg. before and during the purchase by Bushmaster, I am all to familiar with the cost related to CNC manufacturing.

Our goal is to offer an economical suppressor line that would make it easier for those to enjoy the fun of suppressed fire during these hard economical times. Now, the 89.00 offer was a short test promotion to gain name recognition interest. We have never been known for making suppressors so no matter how good it may be, the only way to get consumers to take a chance without a name is to make it extremely affordable. Marketing 101. This also gave us insight on whether the market would accept another .22lr suppressor with so many of them out there.  With this information, it made it easier to approach potential dealers with taking a chance on our product. Our suggested retail is 159.99 leaving dealers plenty of room to set the price for their economical region. We are considering taking it a step further and offering a free K.I.S.S. suppressor to any interested ffl/sot that faxes us their information during the week after Shot Show this year. Believe it or not, it is more cost effective for us to do this as direct marketing than to place costly ads in all the major firearm industry publications.

We make no claims that our K.I.S.S. suppressor is the ultimate bells and whistles piece of equipment, but for a sealed suppressor that is all steel construction, cnc engraved, with black oxide finish, overall length at 6.5" and with a baffle stack, that I can gurantee aren't hardware store washers, it fits the bill for a sturdy and heavily used suppressor with sound level reductions that are competitive with any other suppressor on the market. We give our dealers as part of their package a free suppressor and encourage "shoot before you buy" if they have the facility to do so. This can also be done at our facility on an appointment only basis.  Side by side comparisons are also welcomed.

If your budget can handle a state of the art suppressor then I personally ecourage you to do so because there are some extremely nice pieces of equipment out there, that in my opinoin, border line works of art.  If you are more interested in consistant performance, sturdy construction, affordable pricing and not so much the bells and whistles facotor, give the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple suppressor) a second look. It might just be the one you are looking for. I hope this information is helpful.

Just FYI. We get many questions wheter we will offer other suppressors. The answer is yes and they will be released after the upcoming shot show. Models below.

clandestine .22lr (aluminum / removable baffles)
clandestine II .22lr (steel / removable baffles)

K.I.S.S. .223/5.56mm (screw on)
recon .223/5.56mm (screw on)
recon II .308 / 7.62mm (screw on)

astaroth 9 .9mm
astaroth 40 .40s&w
astaroth 45 .45acp

NGB -
Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself and giving us some information on your .22 can.

What are the projected prices for your other cans, particularly the 5.56 offerings?

I met Buzz at the gunshow this past Saturday in Atlanta, and I must admit that I was impressed with the KISS suppressor in terms of look and feel (obviously, I did not fire it).  It was attached to a Walther P22, and felt very balanced even without a full mag.  They also have a lifetime warranty on them, and it's nice that they are located within 30 minutes of me.

I just bought two new GSG-5P's which should be here this week.  I plan on trying out Buzz's suppressor, and hopefully Tractiongrips (OP) can join me with a few of his suppressors.  If there is interest, I'll bring my HD camcorder and take videos with/without the suppressor.  Not as scientific as a decibel meter, but hopefully helpful nonetheless.  I will have two GSG-5P's, so we could even test suppressors back-to-back to see how they sound in relation to each other.

Buzz is open to comparative tests, but doesn't have other suppressors to compare with.  If anyone owns a Gemtech, etc. and lives in Atlanta please let me know.  It would be great if you could join us for the test.

If I can get the adapter for my S&W 422 I can bring it and the P22 .... and if Mark is there maybe he can bring my Pilot with him.  I dont know how well the Pilot would do since it is a demo can and I am sure has MANY MANY thousand rounds thru it.

Mark/Outsyd - Are you guys available this Friday during the day at all?  My two GSG's are actually going to be delivered to Buzz at Defense, and assuming he's available I'll probably go pick them up then and test his silencer then.  Would be awesome if I could try out your different ones.  The HD video might not be able to capture the sound exactly, but I'm hoping it will make it possible to hear the relative differences between the models.  Thanks for offering to help.

Money isn't the primary issue here, and I could definitely afford a "better" model, but if the KISS silencer sounds about the same as all the others I would rather save the money and buy another silencer in a different caliber.  I don't plan on removing the baffles, and since the KISS suppressor comes with a lifetime guarantee it probably will last me a long time if not forever.

I dont know what Ive got going on this friday.  I may be out at Creekside Firing range to help set up for the sniper challenge on saturday.  

The paperwork is in on the Pilot and has been since the beginning of December so it will still be a while before I get it.  Bookhound is my SOT on this so if he can be there then the pilot cna be there as well.  

I am usually at Creekside on most weekends usually RO'ing the 100 and 50 yard lines so any time that you can talk Mark into coming out and getting Buzz to come out let me know and I will be more than willing to bring my P22 and hopefully I can have an adapter for the 422 by then as well.

Wait, is the K.I.S.S. $89?  The KISS is listed as a 5.56mm suppressor, not  a .22LR...

We will be at the SHOT Mark. We will not be an exhibitor this year but plans have already been set in place for next year assuming nothing drastic legeslation wise happens.  When ever you get a free moment, we can setup a time for you to hear the can. I'm sure I will run into you sooner or later at Creekside. Thanks.

The K.I.S.S. will be in both .22lr and .223/5.56.  The 22lr is out and the .223/5.56 will be available shortly after SHOT. Two seperate suppressors carrying the (Keep It Simple Suppressor) logo.  Thanks.

Mark, the GSG's are "threaded" to a degree.  The Front sight base is threaded a metric female thread and requires the use of an adapter to give 1/2x28 male threads,.  Gemtax is making them as well as a few others I do believe.  There is also one that looks like a 3 lug adapter as well.

No problem, looks like Buzz and James are heading to a show so they'll be out of the office on Friday.  I am still going to try and go there as soon as the GSG's come, hopefully by tomorrow early afternoon.  I won't bother with video, but will use my personal decibel meter (ears) to compare the KISS, Titan 3 and Tactical Innovation suppressors.

The GSG's aren't threaded from the factory, but I bought adapters from mygsg5.com that should work (I got the dual purpose 3-lug/threaded version).  The adapters were almost the price of a suppressor!

Buzz and James have answered all my questions over the phone and in person, so I look forward to trying things out.  They welcome anyone else to call them for a demo as well.

I just want to let everyone know that I have shot every prototype and the final products that are for sale from C3. I have shot them side-by-side with my Pilot and the difference is minimal. The K.I.S.S. is a no nonsense steel suppressor that is made from proven technology that has been around for years. It is heavier than the Pilot, but is comparable in sound reduction.

Again, this is an entry level suppressor that is meant to wet your appetite for other Class 3 toys. Basic .22 suppressors are not overly expensive to make. When you start making the more advanced suppressors is when you spend some serious money.

WOW, what's with the personal attacks?  As a matter of fact I used to be a machinist apprentice in Upstate, NY and own a lathe and mill.  While they are not the high tech CNC machines that would be used on a commercial level, I am familiar with the setup and programming of CNC equipment.  As far as carbide tooling costs, Yes I own a bunch of it and do realize that it is not cheap.  I will say that it is crazy to think that the price of equipment already owned and operated by the company making these cans, let alone a carbide cutter (that adds what, maybe a dime worth of toool wear for each can made at most if you know what you are doing) will add a huge cost to building the assembly.  as far as the "I know this for a fact" comment...do you handle C3 Defense's books?  Do you know what type of equipment they already own?  Have you ever written a CAD type program to make something as simple as a baffle or threaded tube?  As far as the SOT fees, they are already in the business, and have that paid for without building the cans so that doesn't really do anything but add another product to their line and help reduce the cost per piece of what they are already building.

I bought a KISS today. They took me out back and let me fire the actual one I will get once the Tax Stamp is approved. Nice people, very knowlegeable and they are also working on their own line of AR's (cool logo). Buzz is the real thing and has been in the gun and class 3 business in NW Atlanta for a few years.

I came by to pick up my GSG5's, and tried out the KISS, TAC and Titan 3.

The Titan 3 wasn't a fair comparison since it's smaller.  The TAC was a little shorter, but also larger in diameter than the KISS.  So, the volumes were about the same.

The Titan was (as expected) the loudest.  On my GSG, the TAC and KISS sounded very similar in loudness, but the TAC had a higher pitched "thud" sound.  I preferred the lower pitch of the KISS.

My brother and I each bought a KISS, and the coolest part was that Buzz let us choose our own serial numbers to engrave :)  The demo P22 we used to try out the cans in addition to our GSG was ultra quiet with the KISS... impressed me enough where I'm picking up a P22 as well to demonstrate the KISS can to my friends.

I bought the simple, non-removeable baffles version.  I have no desire to take it apart, especially since they have a lifetime warranty.

For anyone on the fence about getting one, I highly suggest trying it out.  I would be surprised if you weren't impressed by the performance and workmanship of the unit.  You can tell Buzz has been a gun guy for years, and has a lot of experience in the industry.  I appreciated how he didn't bash any of his competitors, but instead just let his products do the talking during the demo.  His AR15 line is pretty nice, too.  I may have to pick up one of those along with the matching can, hopefully I can demo that suppressor next time!

Any updates on this?

Nothing on the website.

What kind of update are you looking for?  I put in my paperwork end of January, still hasn't been approved yet.

What is the contact info for the KISS suppressors? All I'm able to find on the web is a site for their AR lowers.

Call Buzz or James at the number listed on their website.  The 22lr suppressor is impressive.  I just went by there shop today to try out the 223 ar15 suppressor that James designed.  It is nothing short of amazing.  I bought one, and I don't even have an ar15 yet.  I figure by the time the suppressor paperwork is complete, I'll have my ar!

The suppressor/kiss section is down.  May want to have the WAdmin check out the coldfusion logs.  Seems like sectors may be bad on the server machine, or the database is down for that part.  That or sloppy code changes =(.  REI needs to be enabled.

Edit:  I was looking forward to finding more information about the suppressor line too =(.

2nd Edit:  Is C3 Defense concentrating more on government funding, training, and AR lowers now and stepping off suppressor production?

After visiting their shop and seeing James pump out a TON of lowers, I'm guessing suppressors are taking a backseat.  In fact, I bought the 223 suppressor that James just finished making.  It wasn't even blued yet, but looked great!  Reminds me, I need to call him with the personalized serial number I want :)