User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 5:37:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: EA has the serial numbered ring that might make a lot of sense in conjunction with 3D printing. Just cutoff the 3D printed baffle stack and weld on a new one. Even without a dedicated ring, it seems like that would be feasible with more intelligent SN placement near the base. If they engraved circumferentially near the base rather than axially along the length of the suppressor tube, it would be almost unimaginable to damage the SN. Even if the manufacturer went out of business, could someone like ECCO just cutoff the baffle stack and weld on a tubeless baffle stack if you somehow damaged your 3D printed can (assuming the SN were undamaged)? I had a Rex can get a baffle strike on my m11. Rex cut off the stack from the serialized portions and welded on a new stack. The EA ring is a great idea as well. I’d be fine with something like that on a 3D printed can. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 6:05:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Embittered: I think it’s a question we shouldn’t press or concern ourselves with so long as the objects in question are replaced and functional without government agents coming to retrieve it years down the line. Agreed one hundred percent. Don’t flick the bull’s nuts. |
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 7:47:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Tier 1 Retarded. Or is that Tiertarded?
"...but we live in those back alleys of the world, those dirty streets where bad things happen and you bleed out slowly. We were taught to cut throats, to survive and thrive." |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 8:06:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spot-remover: Tier 1 Retarded. Or is that Tiertarded? "...but we live in those back alleys of the world, those dirty streets where bad things happen and you bleed out slowly. We were taught to cut throats, to survive and thrive." Where is that quote from? |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 8:09:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spot-remover]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: Where is that quote from? Their website. The little bit I could take is equally hilarious. I didn't even make it to the cans. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 8:19:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#6]
I was more familiar with understanding people bleed out really fast. When you're using tourniquets speed is really important. The cat tourniquet (ironic name in this thread) was designed to be fast and even it isn't super speedy when arteries are bleeding and people are understandably stressed out and afraid. The cat was a massive improvement on sticks and cravats used in Vietnam.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 8:48:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spot-remover: Tier 1 Retarded. Or is that Tiertarded? "...but we live in those back alleys of the world, those dirty streets where bad things happen and you bleed out slowly. We were taught to cut throats, to survive and thrive." That’s goofy and embarrassing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:10:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: That’s goofy and embarrassing. It seemed that way when I read it. It was like one of those awkward moments in a movie where you feel embarrassed for seeing the awkward moment. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:13:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spot-remover: Tier 1 Retarded. Or is that Tiertarded? "...but we live in those back alleys of the world, those dirty streets where bad things happen and you bleed out slowly. We were taught to cut throats, to survive and thrive." See. That’s the stuff that turns me off … |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:22:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drkg: With the way SiCo handled construction of the Velos, I could still see aftermarket jailbreaking and the like still being viable. There’s no reason an Ecco couldn’t pop off the printed baffle stack and replace it with a conventional one. Hell, as 3D printers continue to advance, maybe a small shop could even find it viable to print new stacks altogether. Either way, I bet Ecco could hack off the front of a Hux and weld on a new tube with baffles today. It's case by case, but we tend to shy away from 3D printed can alterations and repairs, especially those that would require welding. 3D printed/DMLS parts are structurally pretty much the same as cast or MIM, and that often means some voids, cracks or inclusions that you do not find in forged or billet parts. When you start welding on these things, it can get real interesting, and not in a good way. Trapped air, moisture, chemicals, binder will cause the welds to blow out, and the heat can cause cracks to form/grow. Cracking during weldment can happen with a number of alloys, forcing the use of fillers, preheating, controlled cooling, etc. Inconel is one of them (always fun when we have to put a dirty fractured AAC core back together). But with cast, MIM or 3D printed stuff, alloys that normally do not have those considerations suddenly do. There's also the way they're built that often complicates things. The "advantages" of being able to print features and geometry that cannot be machined often results in exterior designs having a "negative" on the inside, so with something like flutes that would be cut in a tube or billet blast chamber which is still round on the inside, 3D printed ones sometimes have the inside fluted as well, which can leave us with something that we can't thread and really can't weld properly either. Plus carbon and copper deposits in the rough texture that can't be easily cleaned out and require further material removal. I won't say that we can't or don't do work on 3D printed cans, but we go into it with great skepticism and err on the side of caution. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:43:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Looks like CAT removed the free tax stamp parenthetical on the ODB product page.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:55:25 PM EDT
[#12]
The whole free stamp thing is a gimmick.
We are all adults here. I know I’m paying for the stamp in the purchase price. It’s not like the company or store front is taking $200 out of their own pocket to pay the stamp for me. This stunt isn’t regulated to this company alone. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:58:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: It seemed that way when I read it. It was like one of those awkward moments in a movie where you feel embarrassed for seeing the awkward moment. Stuff like that can be funny if said with a stern face. Then smile and laugh at its goofiness but that doesn’t seem to be the case here. The whole thing just seems “airsofty” to me. Like the company owner asked his 12yo son to come up with the marketing strategy and advertising. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 10:26:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: The whole free stamp thing is a gimmick. We are all adults here. I know I’m paying for the stamp in the purchase price. It’s not like the company or store front is taking $200 out of their own pocket to pay the stamp for me. This stunt isn’t regulated to this company alone. Well the price stayed the same, so it effectively went up $200 for the stamp. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 11:54:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: Well the price stayed the same, so it effectively went up $200 for the stamp. Retards |
|
|
|
WLF
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 9:34:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: Retards Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: Originally Posted By LuckyDucky: Well the price stayed the same, so it effectively went up $200 for the stamp. Retards ROR |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 9:49:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: peachy]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: It seemed that way when I read it. It was like one of those awkward moments in a movie where you feel embarrassed for seeing the awkward moment. That is a good description. I definitely feel embarrassment for them based on that excerpt. If they are a branch of an Asian company, maybe there is a cultural disconnect explaining some of the cringe. I’ve heard some say it is parody of other silencer company marketing efforts, but it’s not really landing for me personally. Given that they are seemingly scrambling to build a presence on the fly, I think either A) their original social media launch was premature/unauthorized or B) it was met with an unanticipated negative reception, either of which has left them scrambling to get their shit together. I can’t imagine this cluster of a marketing campaign is how any serious entrant would plan to put their best foot forward. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 10:16:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: That is a good description. I definitely feel embarrassment for them based on that excerpt. If they are a branch of an Asian company, maybe there is a cultural disconnect explaining some of the cringe. I’ve heard some say it is parody of other silencer company marketing efforts, but it’s not really landing for me personally. Given that they are seemingly scrambling to build a presence on the fly, I think either A) their original social media launch was premature/unauthorized or B) it was met with an unanticipated negative reception, either of which has left them scrambling to get their shit together. I can’t imagine this cluster of a marketing campaign is how any serious entrant would plan to put their best foot forward. All of this & with all the American companies that make excellent silencers I have a difficult time sending money to a company based in Singapore. I’d rather spend $ with Hux, Griffin, SiCo, EA, TBAC or any number of fantastic silencer companies based in the US. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 10:39:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: That is a good description. I definitely feel embarrassment for them based on that excerpt. If they are a branch of an Asian company, maybe there is a cultural disconnect explaining some of the cringe. I’ve heard some say it is parody of other silencer company marketing efforts, but it’s not really landing for me personally. Given that they are seemingly scrambling to build a presence on the fly, I think either A) their original social media launch was premature/unauthorized or B) it was met with an unanticipated negative reception, either of which has left them scrambling to get their shit together. I can’t imagine this cluster of a marketing campaign is how any serious entrant would plan to put their best foot forward. While I believe Wain Research is a Singapore company, it's CEO (maybe...?) is the South African connection I found. I'm not going to mention any individual's names, but that person is an entrepreneur and previously worked at marketing firms. It certainly is possible as CAT suggests that Wain Research is a company set up by a T1 defense contractor, and they picked a marketing/business guy to run it for commercial/consumer purposes. I haven't been able to find anything beyond Wain Research at this point other than a connection to Allied Operations Group, which again, I can't find anything about. The name is so generic that it makes searching it difficult. I too believe they started their marketing campaign too early. Leaving almost 2 months after hyping it up, people will forget about it or get tired of hearing about it by the Oct 2 release. If it turns out that they are not associated with a defense contractor at all, I'm sure they'll just say it was all a joke (and so truth did not matter). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 11:37:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: While I believe Wain Research is a Singapore company, it's CEO (maybe...?) is the South African connection I found. I'm not going to mention any individual's names, but that person is an entrepreneur and previously worked at marketing firms. It certainly is possible as CAT suggests that Wain Research is a company set up by a T1 defense contractor, and they picked a marketing/business guy to run it for commercial/consumer purposes. I haven't been able to find anything beyond Wain Research at this point other than a connection to Allied Operations Group, which again, I can't find anything about. The name is so generic that it makes searching it difficult. I too believe they started their marketing campaign too early. Leaving almost 2 months after hyping it up, people will forget about it or get tired of hearing about it by the Oct 2 release. If it turns out that they are not associated with a defense contractor at all, I'm sure they'll just say it was all a joke (and so truth did not matter). Every time someone says T1, I throw up in my mouth a little. Its the cringiest. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 6:03:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#21]
Hi. I am getting tons of people reporting this thread.
You’re correct; there’s little technical discussion here. We’re back to marketing and drama. And apparently this company may or may not be some sort of prank on the suppressor world..? (No idea.) It’s not my place to inject opinions on suppressor companies. I gave that up when I became a Moderator. But I will offer some generalizations: 1. Suppressors are expensive, tax stamps suck, and waiting for tax stamps sucks even more. It’s vital to buy right the first time. 2. Substance over style. All the edgy marketing and cool logos in the world are meaningless compared to the physical product. Edgy marketing and sick memes don’t do much in the field. 3. Quality and the willingness to stand behind a product matter, especially in light of ATF rulings about repair and replacement of suppressors and component parts. Thank you to the Arfcommer who sent me some memes from social media. They were kind enough to link to the account as well. I’m not into social media, so I wouldn’t have seen this otherwise. I guess some folks really ought to pick their “followers” and “friends” who get to see things more carefully. I edited out the account name. But they are posting here. FYI, the first one references my thread lock of the first CAT thread. The second one should be pretty obvious. From now on, I’ll edit any posts with personal attacks and issue warnings appropriately. But now this thread stays open to allow others to develop their own opinion, for good or bad, of CAT. Trolls and losers need to stop winning by being jackasses or calling for raids in order to censor discussion. We’re going to allow CAT to stand on its reputation and product quality. If you prefer not to see or deal with this thread, I totally understand. If I weren’t a Mod, I wouldn’t want to see it either. Please just unsubscribe if you’re uninterested. Thank you!   |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 6:10:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ECCO_Machine: It's case by case, but we tend to shy away from 3D printed can alterations and repairs, especially those that would require welding. 3D printed/DMLS parts are structurally pretty much the same as cast or MIM, and that often means some voids, cracks or inclusions that you do not find in forged or billet parts. When you start welding on these things, it can get real interesting, and not in a good way. Trapped air, moisture, chemicals, binder will cause the welds to blow out, and the heat can cause cracks to form/grow. Cracking during weldment can happen with a number of alloys, forcing the use of fillers, preheating, controlled cooling, etc. Inconel is one of them (always fun when we have to put a dirty fractured AAC core back together). But with cast, MIM or 3D printed stuff, alloys that normally do not have those considerations suddenly do. There's also the way they're built that often complicates things. The "advantages" of being able to print features and geometry that cannot be machined often results in exterior designs having a "negative" on the inside, so with something like flutes that would be cut in a tube or billet blast chamber which is still round on the inside, 3D printed ones sometimes have the inside fluted as well, which can leave us with something that we can't thread and really can't weld properly either. Plus carbon and copper deposits in the rough texture that can't be easily cleaned out and require further material removal. I won't say that we can't or don't do work on 3D printed cans, but we go into it with great skepticism and err on the side of caution. Thanks for that insight. I hadn’t considered the void-heavy nature of 3DP. That said, I have to believe that the printers are running in an inert-gas environment (or else their original welds would be shit) so, if the voids were created in an inert atmosphere, and you welded to them in a good gas flow, I’d think it would be like welding really rough, but really clean, metal. It’s interesting that you’ve found that to not be the case. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2023 6:53:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: Every time someone says T1, I throw up in my mouth a little. Its the cringiest. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: Originally Posted By LuckyDucky: While I believe Wain Research is a Singapore company, it's CEO (maybe...?) is the South African connection I found. I'm not going to mention any individual's names, but that person is an entrepreneur and previously worked at marketing firms. It certainly is possible as CAT suggests that Wain Research is a company set up by a T1 defense contractor, and they picked a marketing/business guy to run it for commercial/consumer purposes. I haven't been able to find anything beyond Wain Research at this point other than a connection to Allied Operations Group, which again, I can't find anything about. The name is so generic that it makes searching it difficult. I too believe they started their marketing campaign too early. Leaving almost 2 months after hyping it up, people will forget about it or get tired of hearing about it by the Oct 2 release. If it turns out that they are not associated with a defense contractor at all, I'm sure they'll just say it was all a joke (and so truth did not matter). Every time someone says T1, I throw up in my mouth a little. Its the cringiest. Yup ... but people eat that stuff up man |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 7:59:45 AM EDT
[#24]
The cat's coming full circle.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 8:59:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#25]
https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-120-cat-odb-mk18-556
Looks like similar performance to Huxwrx flow. |
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 9:26:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Leicafan1990]
[#26]
With the Pewscience data dropping this morning, this absolutely seems like the 30cal can to beat at the moment. I know the marketing turned a lot of people off but the performance seems to be extremely impressive. I would put this a notch above the Flow 762 because it’s available in inconel and comes with hub mount threads. If this company can maintain excellent QC and keep up with the demand, I think they have a serious hit on their hands.
Going back and reading this thread is honestly pretty hilarious in hindsight. The fact that CGS was willing to put their neck on the line for this company should have been a clue that this was legit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 9:52:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: With the Pewscience data dropping this morning, this absolutely seems like the 30cal can to beat at the moment. I know the marketing turned a lot of people off but the performance seems to be extremely impressive. I would put this a notch above the Flow 762 because it’s available in inconel and comes with hub mount threads. If this company can maintain excellent QC and keep up with the demand, I think they have a serious hit on their hands. Going back and reading this thread is honestly pretty hilarious in hindsight. The fact that CGS was willing to put their neck on the line for this company should have been a clue that this was legit. I would still like to know whose purse I am filling ... sure ... it supports jobs here to a degree ... but where does the money ultimately end up... their unwillingness to clear that up should tell you that the American public wouldn't like it ... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 9:56:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: With the Pewscience Going back and reading this thread is honestly pretty hilarious in hindsight. The fact that CGS was willing to put their neck on the line for this company should have been a clue that this was legit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 9:56:20 AM EDT
[#29]
Looks like the new CAT scored 36.7 Kelevens on the PEWSSR and 29.5/35.4 Kelevens on the ARSSP.
|
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:06:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: I would still like to know whose purse I am filling ... sure ... it supports jobs here to a degree ... but where does the money ultimately end up... their unwillingness to clear that up should tell you that the American public wouldn't like it ... And yet Holosun sells a fuck ton of red dots here in the states and it’s extremely obvious that most of that money goes directly into the pockets of the Chinese government. Yes, CAT is likely a foreign-based company but the cans are being manufactured here and CGS is handling all the sales and service so that is frankly American enough for many of us. They obviously have some very smart people working for them and the performance is especially noteworthy. I think we should take this company very seriously. I think that’s why they are being borderline reckless with the marketing. They know they have the product to back it up and they will probably struggle to keep up with the demand so why not fuck around a little for laughs. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:08:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#31]
……..
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:10:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monkeypunch: Ah, you’re one of those guys. That tells me everything I need to know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:11:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Ah, you’re one of those guys. That tells me everything I need to know. Lol go back to Reddit. |
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:32:44 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monkeypunch: Lol go back to Reddit. Reddit sucks. Also, what does this have to do with Reddit? Stay on point. Are we seriously still debating the legitimacy of Jay’s data in 2023? This is absolutely absurd. The only companies trying to undermine his credibility are those companies that want total control over the tests and the data released to the public because they know their products have been recently surpassed by more innovative designs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:38:32 AM EDT
[#35]
I may be in the minority but I honestly don’t give a hoot what pew has to say. He has setup a neat little business for himself but it’s just that a business.
I’d rather hear things first hand and make my own decisions. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 10:53:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Reddit sucks. Also, what does this have to do with Reddit? Stay on point. Are we seriously still debating the legitimacy of Jay’s data in 2023? This is absolutely absurd. The only companies trying to undermine his credibility are those companies that want total control over the tests and the data released to the public because they know their products have been recently surpassed by more innovative designs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Originally Posted By monkeypunch: Lol go back to Reddit. Reddit sucks. Also, what does this have to do with Reddit? Stay on point. Are we seriously still debating the legitimacy of Jay’s data in 2023? This is absolutely absurd. The only companies trying to undermine his credibility are those companies that want total control over the tests and the data released to the public because they know their products have been recently surpassed by more innovative designs. It's because theirs nothing to debate. Jay's "data" is interesting dosage data with a Jesus complex backed by a cult following. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:05:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Reddit sucks. Also, what does this have to do with Reddit? Stay on point. Are we seriously still debating the legitimacy of Jay’s data in 2023? This is absolutely absurd. The only companies trying to undermine his credibility are those companies that want total control over the tests and the data released to the public because they know their products have been recently surpassed by more innovative designs. Can you share any peer reviews to validate his legitimacy? |
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:05:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: On an unknown muzzle device that Jay was vague about when asked directly this morning on Reddit/NFA. Just another example of why his testing isn’t a quality standard. Accurately describing the pedigree of the unit under test is basic test report discipline. It’s a 3 prong flash hider from a different company, probably a product that hasn’t been announced yet by it’s manufacturer. Who cares honestly? It’s a hub mount so people will be using a shit ton of different muzzles devices on this can anyways. And he isn’t using the same muzzle device on every can he tests so it’s pretty irrelevant. Jay said the performance of this this design isn’t really affected at all by changes in the mount so I don’t understand this criticism to be honest. Just seems like nitpicking for the sake of it. |
|
|
AK, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:13:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Are we seriously still debating the legitimacy of Jay’s data in 2023? This is absolutely absurd. Because Jay is a business that accepts money for non-peer reviewable data. As long as he insists on keeping his rating methods proprietary, it is 'trust me bro' science. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:15:06 AM EDT
[#40]
In an effort to keep this on track-
Another can over 7" and weighs 16oz without a mount? Pass. |
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:16:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bully13: Can you share any peer reviews to validate his legitimacy? Are there any other 3rd party testing companies that are competing with him? It’s like your blaming him for not having competition to validate his data. Here’s a more important question. Are there any cans he has published data on that performed very well in his tests but that same suppressor frequently gets poor subjective reviews from owners? You could question the data if his results weren’t lining up with subjective opinions but that doesn’t seem to be happening. For example, I haven’t seen Sage Dynamics and PewScience disagree on whether a can is good or not. One reviewer is entirely subjective and the other is data driven but their conclusions are largely the same. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:19:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Are there any other 3rd party testing companies that are competing with him? It’s like your blaming him for not having competition to validate his data. Here’s a more important question. Are there any cans he has published data on that performed very well in his tests but that same suppressor frequently gets poor subjective reviews from owners? You could question the data if his results weren’t lining up with subjective opinions but that doesn’t seem to be happening. For example, I haven’t seen Sage Dynamics and PewScience disagree on whether a can is good or not. One reviewer is entirely subjective and the other is data driven but their conclusions are largely the same. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Originally Posted By bully13: Can you share any peer reviews to validate his legitimacy? Are there any other 3rd party testing companies that are competing with him? It’s like your blaming him for not having competition to validate his data. Here’s a more important question. Are there any cans he has published data on that performed very well in his tests but that same suppressor frequently gets poor subjective reviews from owners? You could question the data if his results weren’t lining up with subjective opinions but that doesn’t seem to be happening. For example, I haven’t seen Sage Dynamics and PewScience disagree on whether a can is good or not. One reviewer is entirely subjective and the other is data driven but their conclusions are largely the same. Dude. Stop. We understand you like pew... good for you. The only person here not providing facts is you. And yes. The oss/hux cans. A lot of dudes see his tests and think the can is actually going to be quiet. It's not. I also remember a CGS can he "helped" develop that was supposed to be the game changer. It wasn't |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:23:56 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Are there any other 3rd party testing companies that are competing with him? It’s like your blaming him for not having competition to validate his data. Here’s a more important question. Are there any cans he has published data on that performed very well in his tests but that same suppressor frequently gets poor subjective reviews from owners? You could question the data if his results weren’t lining up with subjective opinions but that doesn’t seem to be happening. For example, I haven’t seen Sage Dynamics and PewScience disagree on whether a can is good or not. One reviewer is entirely subjective and the other is data driven but their conclusions are largely the same. Yes that's exactly what I'm doing? As long as his methods are not shared there's no way for anybody to validate it. My limited experience with cans he's reviewed don't confirm his ratings, but there's a lot factors to be considered |
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: Because Jay is a business that accepts money for non-peer reviewable data. As long as he insists on keeping his rating methods proprietary, it is 'trust me bro' science. He describes his testing method in detail on his website: https://pewscience.com/silencer-sound-standard Yes, some of his evaluation software is proprietary but if it was 100% open source, then companies would just bypass him completely and copy his testing methods. But that opens up the possibility for the companies to manipulate or fabricate their data for marketing purposes. He’s putting in the work so he should be paid for it. There isn’t anything wrong with trying to protect your creation from copycats. That why patents exist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:34:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: He describes his testing method in detail on his website: https://pewscience.com/silencer-sound-standard Yes, some of his evaluation software is proprietary but if it was 100% open source, then companies would just bypass him completely and copy his testing methods. But that opens up the possibility for the companies to manipulate or fabricate their data for marketing purposes. He’s putting in the work so he should be paid for it. There isn’t anything wrong with trying to protect your creation from copycats. That why patents exist. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Originally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: Because Jay is a business that accepts money for non-peer reviewable data. As long as he insists on keeping his rating methods proprietary, it is 'trust me bro' science. He describes his testing method in detail on his website: https://pewscience.com/silencer-sound-standard Yes, some of his evaluation software is proprietary but if it was 100% open source, then companies would just bypass him completely and copy his testing methods. But that opens up the possibility for the companies to manipulate or fabricate their data for marketing purposes. He’s putting in the work so he should be paid for it. There isn’t anything wrong with trying to protect your creation from copycats. That why patents exist. Read that again. And again. And again. Then it's not scientific-it's 100% bullshit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:35:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Yes, some of his evaluation software is proprietary but if it was 100% open source, then companies would just bypass him completely and copy his testing methods. But that opens up the possibility for the companies to manipulate or fabricate their data for marketing purposes. You’ve just described “science” perfectly. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:37:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pomyluy]
[#47]
Originally Posted By Leicafan1990: With the Pewscience data dropping this morning, this absolutely seems like the 30cal can to beat at the moment. I know the marketing turned a lot of people off but the performance seems to be extremely impressive. I would put this a notch above the Flow 762 because it’s available in inconel and comes with hub mount threads. If this company can maintain excellent QC and keep up with the demand, I think they have a serious hit on their hands. Going back and reading this thread is honestly pretty hilarious in hindsight. The fact that CGS was willing to put their neck on the line for this company should have been a clue that this was legit. I'll reserve judgement till Jay publishes the rest of his results. Its performance appears to be very good, but not even remotely the game-changer CAT's marketing makes it out to be. It's literally on par with the Flow 762, not a class above. Originally Posted By Leicafan1990: Here’s a more important question. Are there any cans he has published data on that performed very well in his tests but that same suppressor frequently gets poor subjective reviews from owners? CGS Mod 9 FS for one. High backpressure makes it miserable to shoot on a lot of hosts, and makes it sound great to bystanders but not so much to the shooter. Often has severe accuracy issues (likely due to crappy piston springs) as well. Plenty of owners have experienced these problems, myself included. Originally Posted By 1168RGR: You’ve just described “science” perfectly. The reviews are now referred to as "whitepapers" which makes it real science.  Someone asked on Reddit a day or two ago what a Pew Science membership actually netted you in terms of additional data - the official response was "email me and we can discuss this further", is it really so hard to just answer a straight question?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:37:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thehun06]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: And yet Holosun sells a fuck ton of red dots here in the states and it’s extremely obvious that most of that money goes directly into the pockets of the Chinese government. Yes, CAT is likely a foreign-based company but the cans are being manufactured here and CGS is handling all the sales and service so that is frankly American enough for many of us. They obviously have some very smart people working for them and the performance is especially noteworthy. I think we should take this company very seriously. I think that’s why they are being borderline reckless with the marketing. They know they have the product to back it up and they will probably struggle to keep up with the demand so why not fuck around a little for laughs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leicafan1990: Originally Posted By thehun06: I would still like to know whose purse I am filling ... sure ... it supports jobs here to a degree ... but where does the money ultimately end up... their unwillingness to clear that up should tell you that the American public wouldn't like it ... And yet Holosun sells a fuck ton of red dots here in the states and it’s extremely obvious that most of that money goes directly into the pockets of the Chinese government. Yes, CAT is likely a foreign-based company but the cans are being manufactured here and CGS is handling all the sales and service so that is frankly American enough for many of us. They obviously have some very smart people working for them and the performance is especially noteworthy. I think we should take this company very seriously. I think that’s why they are being borderline reckless with the marketing. They know they have the product to back it up and they will probably struggle to keep up with the demand so why not fuck around a little for laughs. and I don't buy Holosun anymore ... Again ... it matters to some of us where the pockets are being lined ... I am not discounting their product ... appears to be working really well ... but the origins do and should matter .... |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 11:43:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#49]
…….
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2023 12:00:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: Dude. Stop. We understand you like pew... good for you. The only person here not providing facts is you. And yes. The oss/hux cans. A lot of dudes see his tests and think the can is actually going to be quiet. It's not. I also remember a CGS can he "helped" develop that was supposed to be the game changer. It wasn't I’m sorry, where are all the facts in this thread? This has been 4 pages of mostly baseless speculation about this company and their product. If you think Jay’s data is shit, then develop your own testing standard. I don’t see anyone else attempting it except for the companies themselves and honestly, that seems way way less trustworthy to me. Companies never ever publish bullshit, internally generated data to sell something to consumers who don’t know any better. The Huxwrx cans are very quiet when you understand what they were designed to accomplish. Everyone I know who owns one of their new DMLS cans is very happy with it. The Flow 556K was designed to have very little back pressure with a short length and excellent suppression at the shooters ear and that comes at the expense of industry leading suppression at the muzzle. It’s unreasonable to expect that a high flow K can will be as quiet as a long, low flow can like an OCL Polonium or a Maxim DSX. The SCI-SIX is a good can by the way. I thought it performed a little better than the SOCOM RC-2 I compared it to. This was purely subjective of course. They were close but I liked the tone of the SCI more. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
