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Posted: 6/3/2011 12:32:34 AM EDT
Why wet tumble when a vibrating tumbler gets brass clean? Good question, as wet tumbling is really not needed.
The advantages are sparkling clean cases inside and out, and clean primer pockets. Even with many times fired range brass. No dust is maybe the greatest advantage, worst thing about wet tumbling is waiting for the brass to dry. Depriming before tumbling speeds up drying. More on drying later. Get a Thumblers model B. Be sure to get the high speed model, as there is also a slow speed one. About $ 169 ish I changed the washers and wing nuts to a heavier style I like better than the original ones. SS media, I got mine at Buffalo Arms. Get 5 pounds, $35 + 11 shipping. Yes it's magnetic, and can be picked up with a magnet if you spill some. Last 2 things you need are the cleaners. Dawn and Lemishine. Get Lemishine at Walmart in with the dish washing soaps. I use a 2 second squirt of Dawn, and a 45 ACP case full of Lemishine. I tried a 9mm case, but found that amount didn't clean as well as the 45 case full. I soldered a 223 case to the 45 case for a handle. Kind of looks like a crack pipe I was told. Don't care, I like it. 2 liter pop bottle cut about 6 inches. That's my brass measure. I don't always fill it to the top. Loading the Tumbler, To the brass, add the 5 pounds of media, and 1 gallon of water. Then add the dawn and Lemishine. I don't have a sink in my work shop (no hot water) so I use water from the hose. Many posts say to use hot water, but I've been getting good results with cold water. Go ahead and experiment with this. The water level in the drum when loaded is about 1 to 1 1/2 inches from the top. Drum should look like this when it's opened after tumbling cycle. If it's not sudsy like this, you didn't use enough Dawn. The high speed model need to run 4 hours. The low speed model needs to run 8 hours. Edited run time now that I have more experience. I use my old Midway (1997) dry media separator and 2 buckets to separate media-water-cases. Gently shake blue part of separator, will get 90% of the media out of the cases. Dump cases in white bucket, slowly dump out sudsy water from gray bucket. You can see when the media will start to spill out. Stop dumping before you get to this point. A little water will still be in bucket, that's ok. Put some water in bucket, and slowly dump out, stop before media spill out. Repeat until suds are gone. For me, 3 rinses. I don't put a strainer below the bucket when I dump the water out. Not needed, you can see when the media is ready to come out and you can stop pouring out the water before that happens. Not hard. Put about 3 inches of water in white bucket with brass/media mixture. Stir it around and dump out water. Stop before cases start to come out. Set aside for now. Dump rinsed brass/water/media back through separator. Gently shake separator, 99% of media is now in bucket. Place brass on an old towel and rub the water off, dump in a drying pan. I dry on top of a wood stove, takes about 15 minutes. Keep temp at 200 degrees if you use a stove in the house. In my unheated workshop, brass dries in 2 days. I use old roasting pans for drying. Just dump media back into bucket and reload tumbler for the next batch. The media won't rust, so if you are not going to do another batch, leave top off of drum and just let it sit until the next batch. Now a before pic. Brass score on some Norma 6mm unfired cases that were a little green, and a few 7mm mag. After pic. Can't do this with a vibrating tumbler. edit to add more pics |
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Edit, here is what I saved this spot for;
Here is something you might want to do to your tumbler before you use it. This the inside of the tumbler where the rubber drum goes into. It's not painted, and other posters said their tumblers were rusting, and they cleaned out the rust and painted the metal. So I decided to paint mine while I was waiting for the media to arrive. I wiped down the metal with a clean rag and alcohol (rubbing alcohol___this is arfcom) so the paint would stick, and masked off the outside from over spray. Looks like this when finished and tape removed. I let it dry overnight. Here is the spray paint I used. Rust-oleum Painter Touch #1966 Apple Red. Don't remember where I bought it from. After using the tumbler a while, I changed the wing nuts to the solid type and replaced the 5/16 washers with 1/4 washers that were a little thicker. I'm not a fan of cheap hardware, and these wing nuts are easier on the fingers. edit 2. Then I found these knobs at Mc Feelys. $1.10 each (current price 12/24/2016), order 6. Shipping is $1. I like this site's shipping price and they ship fast. They just clear the drive shaft. I don't use a washer, just these knobs. Group pic, after trying the knobs on my first tumbler, I ordered more for all of my tumblers. I also put timers on all of the tumblers. I now run the low speed Tumbler Model B for 8 hours, also the old tumbler for 8 hours. The high speed runs for 4 hours. Using rubber cement, I glued the rubber gasket to the removable lid, also glued the washers to the lid. The black sharpie line is my index mark to get the lid on the same place so the glued washers line up correctly. I use the dummy 7.62x39 round to pry up the lid when removing the cover. Saves on the fingers. No longer needed I have 2 more tumblers since I first posted this thread. The second model B came from Buffalo arms and it's the high speed model in the center. Link to my funshow score thread where I got the old tumbler for $15. The drum is half the size of the Model B, so I use 2 1/2 pounds of media in it. As mentioned later in this thread, the high speed Model B's motor shakes a lot when running. So added a bracket to the back side of the motor studs and painted it. Thanks jlow. end of edit 2 edit 3 Links to "Build it yourself wet tumblers threads". BIGDAWG's thread Nicholastheczar's thread edit 4 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/367311_Wet_tumbling_on_the_cheap___Yes___It_can_be_done_.html Low budget wet tumbling thread. Edit 5 Here is how I process my cases. Deprime dirty cases with a Lee Universal decapper. Wet tumble, rinse in cold clean water. Hot water is not needed. Dry outside of cases with a towel. Place in a cooking pan/sheet and let air dry overnight. Lube (*homemade lanolin spray lube) and size (rifle), no lube for pistol cases. Not needed. Dry tumble in plain corn cob for 1/2 hour to remove lube. (I don't see why people would use a wet method here, takes more drying time.) Trim and deburr, chamfer case mouths. Remove crimp if needed, Uniform primer pockets depending on load/use of the cases. Cases ready to load. *http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/305174_Case_Lube_for_cheap_bastards.html |
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Great write up as usual dryflash3!!! thanks.
i am in the process of building my own tumbler now. hope it works. |
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I like shiny things and this thread delivers.
Im not into reloading but that was a nice write up. I can appreciate the efforts it took. |
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Here is a mod I made to my tumbler – the idea is not mine but I saw it on a board somewhere. When my tumbler came, it already had four long bolts attached to the motor jutting out. What I basically did was to make a support from some waste steel I had, bolt it to the motor using four spacers made from a brass tube and then bolt the whole support to the base. Locking washers ensure that the nuts and bolt don’t vibrate loose. I find that this really reduce the amount of vibration coming from the motor since it is now supported from both sides. |
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Geez... that looks like so much effort to clean brass.
Does polishing out the inside of the brass actually help you with anything?? Thats the only advantage I see to this. They do come out shiny though haha. Just curious... from start to finish... your own personal labor.... how long does it take to polish say 1000 pcs of 9mm or 600 pcs of 45acp? (not including the rotating time) MIke. |
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Geez... that looks like so much effort to clean brass. Does polishing out the inside of the brass actually help you with anything?? Thats the only advantage I see to this. They do come out shiny though haha. Just curious... from start to finish... your own personal labor.... how long does it take to polish say 1000 pcs of 9mm or 600 pcs of 45acp? (not including the rotating time) MIke. It takes me about 6 to 10 minutes to unload tumbler and load a new batch for the next run. Advantage is no dust, and look at the before and after pic. Can't do that with a vibrating tumbler. If you are good with your present tumbling, stay with it. I posted this thread to answer questions for people who are considering wet tumbling. 1k of 223 0r 45 ACP would take me 4 runs to do. |
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great write up. Im thinking about the conversion. I like shiny!
How many 223 can you run in the tumbler? also is this a good deal package |
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Had a question, could you do the same with a Berry's tumbler or is that intended for dry media only? New to all of this and I do not want to destroy my tumbler if I throw in a bunch of water in it.
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Geez... that looks like so much effort to clean brass. Does polishing out the inside of the brass actually help you with anything?? Thats the only advantage I see to this. They do come out shiny though haha. Just curious... from start to finish... your own personal labor.... how long does it take to polish say 1000 pcs of 9mm or 600 pcs of 45acp? (not including the rotating time) MIke. It takes me about 6 to 10 minutes to unload tumbler and load a new batch for the next run. Advantage is no dust, and look at the before and after pic. Can't do that with a vibrating tumbler. If you are good with your present tumbling, stay with it. I posted this thread to answer questions for people who are considering wet tumbling. 1k of 223 0r 45 ACP would take me 4 runs to do. Gotcha, ya I was just curious what it took because pictures appear a lot more labor intensive than just using a traditional tumbler... 6-10 mins doesn't sound too bad... about twice as long as it take me to empty a tumbler/shake brass of media/refill tumbler. But ya no dust would be nice... I just discovered that using polishing stuff(car polish or something) cuts back a ton on the dust when you add it to the media..and cleans the brass about 3 times after! How long do you tumble each batch for? Mike. |
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Had a question, could you do the same with a Berry's tumbler or is that intended for dry media only? New to all of this and I do not want to destroy my tumbler if I throw in a bunch of water in it. Vibrating tumbler = don't use it with water. Rotary tumbler + wet media. |
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Nice write up.
How do I tell if my Model B tumbler is high or low speed? The box is gone. Danny |
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Nice write up. How do I tell if my Model B tumbler is high or low speed? The box is gone. Danny I have a standard speed and the motor says 1550 RPM, I believe the HS version is 3000 RPM. |
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Show off.
That's some really nasty looking brass at the bottom. |
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Here is a mod I made to my tumbler – the idea is not mine but I saw it on a board somewhere.
When my tumbler came, it already had four long bolts attached to the motor jutting out. What I basically did was to make a support from some waste steel I had, bolt it to the motor using four spacers made from a brass tube and then bolt the whole support to the base. Locking washers ensure that the nuts and bolt don’t vibrate loose. I find that this really reduce the amount of vibration coming from the motor since it is now supported from both sides. Not pretty but functional.
http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Photo/DSCN1102s.jpg Was your motor moving around? Mine seems pretty solid as is. |
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great write up. Im thinking about the conversion. I like shiny! How many 223 can you run in the tumbler? About 250-300 ish. But never counted, as I use the "measuring jug" like in the thread. also is this a good deal package |
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Show off. That's some really nasty looking brass at the bottom. My contribution... Before and after on some really nasty cases with stainless steel... http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9070/dirty.jpg soaked in hotwater and lemishine for 20 minutes... http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7497/rinsed.jpg Tumbled... http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/3038/tumbled.jpg I can figure out the first and last pic, but what does the middle pic mean? Guessing brass was run 2 cycles, and second pic was after 1 cycle? |
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Show off. That's some really nasty looking brass at the bottom. My contribution... Before and after on some really nasty cases with stainless steel... http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9070/dirty.jpg soaked in hotwater and lemishine for 20 minutes... http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7497/rinsed.jpg Tumbled... http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/3038/tumbled.jpg I can figure out the first and last pic, but what does the middle pic mean? Guessing brass was run 2 cycles, and second pic was after 1 cycle? The brass had so much mud and debris on it, I pre-washed it in a tub of hot water and lemishine before tumbling. It also removes a lot of tarnish. I was doing the same thing before I tumbled brass in a vibratory tumbler just to speed up the process. |
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DF3, Got my first batch running now. Thanks for the help. Another convert. That was me 2 months ago. Did you get the high or low speed model? |
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Show off. That's some really nasty looking brass at the bottom. My contribution... Before and after on some really nasty cases with stainless steel... http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9070/dirty.jpg soaked in hotwater and lemishine for 20 minutes... http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7497/rinsed.jpg Tumbled... http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/3038/tumbled.jpg I can figure out the first and last pic, but what does the middle pic mean? Guessing brass was run 2 cycles, and second pic was after 1 cycle? The brass had so much mud and debris on it, I pre-washed it in a tub of hot water and lemishine before tumbling. It also removes a lot of tarnish. I was doing the same thing before I tumbled brass in a vibratory tumbler just to speed up the process. I should have guessed that. I do the same. Just a bad guesser tonight. |
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Dryflash why do you have to post stuff like this....... Now I cant get that Bling out of my head , I want, I started tumbling my 223 all night in corncob for sub par bling, but wow! that nasty to that shiny Im gonna start saving my money for a wetSS setup
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Nice writeup. Mines is being shipped. I've read that Thumler's instructions are almost non-existent. Do you happen to know if the 15lb weight limit is including the drum or just contents? Was thinking of placing the drum on a scale and filling water along with soap and brass/media until I reach capacity. Any thoughts?
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Just a couple of comments to add to your wonderful write up.
I have been using the SS media for about a year now. I love it. I have been experimenting with some different things and find them to be satisfactory. First, I have the low speed model and only tumble for 4 hours at a time. I get spotless brass cases. Even the very dirty corroded ones. Second, I have been trying less of the media. I use about 3 to 4 lbs of media at a time. 3 is not enough, but 4 seems to work just fine. Then I add a bit more brass. 1 gal water = 8 lbs 4 lbs SS media = 4 lbs (duh) then 3 to 4 lbs of brass. a splash of Dawn Dish soap and a dash of Lemishine tumble for 4 hours. I have a batch turning right now. I do not have before pictures, but I'll post the after pics when I get them done. This may save someone some time and money in the long run. Just my two cents worth JKM |
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dryflash why do you have to post stuff like this....... Now I cant get that Bling out of my head , I want, I started tumbling my 223 all night in corncob for sub par bling, but wow! that nasty to that shiny Im gonna start saving my money for a wetSS setup I know how you feel, when these threads about wet tumbling started appearing here, I was . I don't need that. I get my brass plenty clean with dry tumbling. Then the brass swap thread came along and TGrant sent me some 7.62x39 brass he had wet tumbled. That tipped me over the edge, and I thank him for that. Everyone has different ways of doing things, and I separate the media and brass without a sink and reaching into the nasty water to separate brass from media. So I posted this thread to try to help others, and get out my method. I also have a thread I can refer others to when they ask wet tumbling questions. Not everyone hangs out in the forum every night, and they can miss some threads. Save up, it's worth it. |
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Is 5 pounds about the right weight for a Thumbler's, or is a little more needed? I'm weakening.
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I've been using an ultra sonic since shortly after I started reloading(little over a year). I just ordered my tumbler and stainless on Thursday and can't wait for it to get here so I can get my bling on.
ETA Thanks for the write up. It was threads like these that got me into using the ultra sonic and now into the SS tumbler. |
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Is 5 pounds about the right weight for a Thumbler's, or is a little more needed? I'm weakening. 5 lbs should be fine. Like I posted above, I have been using a bit less and getting away with it. I did this originally to try to increase the amount of brass I was doing. I also have a reserve for those pins that go MIA. JKM |
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Wet%20Tumbling/P5300114.jpg I use a 2 liter pop bottle cut to about 6 inches as my brass measure. Thanks for that great idea. I tried to find different Tupperware around the house that would be just the right size but this way I can make it "just the right size" and I can make one for each caliber I tumble. Thanks for the tip. JKM |
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I also went the Thumbler's route. I had a bunch of LC brass that had all sorts of really nasty stuff on the cases that my vibrating tumbler wouldn't touch, even after 12 hours. I tried the SS/liquid, checked after only 1 hour tumbling, and wow! That is all I needed. It's shiny and clean.
Depriming before tumbling does aid in drying, and the primer pockets get a nice cleaning. I use a Dillon separator to separate the media. I fill the tub so that the separator is 1/2 underwater and turn it a few times. All the media ends up in the tub and the brass is well-rinsed. I take a bath towel and place the brass in the middle, patting down the outside. Then, using the end of the towel as hand-holds, rock the brass back and forth. Most of the water will be gone. I use a cookie sheet in the oven at 150 for about 20 minutes, and the brass is usually dry. Directions say 180 rounds of .223/5.56 will be a load. I tried that, it worked fine. So I upped it to 200, that worked fine. I tried 250, that worked fine, too. 300 sounded like the motor was working too hard on the tumbler, so I stopped and removed some. I will probably stick with 200. I also tried a batch with different shell sizes, wondering if they would stack inside each other. They do. Still have to sort that range pickup stuff before tumbling. |
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Well you all have convinced me. Ordered this morning. Now to build a drying apparatus that works in South Texas humidity...
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Well you all have convinced me. Ordered this morning. Now to build a drying apparatus that works in South Texas humidity... After running brass through the ultra sonic I use an old cookie sheet and sit the brass in direct sunlight. Seems to work well enough in about an hour or two, best part the Sun is free. |
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very awesome. I am putting together plans to build a reloading shed since things are getting a bit crowded in the house, guessI am going to have to add a utility sink in there. . . .
thanks for the write up. Very interesting. |
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Is 5 pounds about the right weight for a Thumbler's, or is a little more needed? I'm weakening. 5 pounds is what was recommended by the guys from sniper hide that started this. 5 pounds is what I use, and it works great. I might try a little less media, like a poster mentioned. I wouldn't use any more than 5 pounds because it would take away from the weight of brass you can clean. |
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What kind of tumbler is that? Been thinking about swapping over from corncob vibratory myself, if the investment cost is right.
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What kind of tumbler is that? Been thinking about swapping over from corncob vibratory myself, if the investment cost is right. Tumbler model B. Mentioned in the first post. I also finished the second post in this thread I had reserved. It's about mods I did to my tumbler. Thanks for the kind words, the real devolpement work was done by others, I'm just a guy that takes a lot of pics and posts them. |
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Guys, just saw this post and wanted to let people know that the low and high speed motors do not mater. I am running a low speed and my brass comes out sparking in 4-5 hours, no need to run for over night as mentioned in original post. I will throw some photos up tomorrow of some LC match brass i just ran today.
Also if you feel you must have the highspeed motor you can get that switched out pretty easily by thumler. Pat PS Stainless media is the best stuff i have found. Blows the ultrasonic i was using away |
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Guys, just saw this post and wanted to let people know that the low and high speed motors do not mater. I am running a low speed and my brass comes out sparking in 4-5 hours, no need to run for over night as mentioned in original post. I will throw some photos up tomorrow of some LC match brass i just ran today. Also if you feel you must have the highspeed motor you can get that switched out pretty easily by thumler. Pat PS Stainless media is the best stuff i have found. Blows the ultrasonic i was using away I tried 4-5 hours and didn't get the results I wanted. |
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Great write up, thank you for your contribution.
I have been wanting to get into this type of tumbling since I saw it on youtube. The startup price is what I cannot justify to the minister of finance! I am however working on my own type of tumbler that involves a motor and 30 gallon drum. Seems when I pick up a lot of range brass, most tumblers will only handle 300ish rounds. Again, thanks for the write up! |
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Thanks for the write up. Has anyone tried dropping the water content to say 3 quarts to make more room for brass? Also, does anyone know of the best place to pick up Thumler's Model B?
Edit: Are you guys using a universal decapping die to deprime before you run the brass? |
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Thanks for the write up. Has anyone tried dropping the water content to say 3 quarts to make more room for brass? Also, does anyone know of the best place to pick up Thumler's Model B? No' I haven't tried less water. I am going to try less media with todays load. You have to shop around for the best price. I happened on a sale. Just Google Thumbler model B. Lots of places come up. (include the h) |
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Quoted: Thanks for the write up. Has anyone tried dropping the water content to say 3 quarts to make more room for brass? Also, does anyone know of the best place to pick up Thumler's Model B? Edit: Are you guys using a universal decapping die to deprime before you run the brass? I have reduced water volume slightly (you fill to the same level in the tumbler but the volume is reduced) when I put in more brass (keeping the amount of SS media constant). What I find is this does not affect the operation of the tumbler as it maintains the weight that it has to handle. However, as the ratio of brass/SS media change, you are going to get reduced cleaning efficiency which just means that to get the same degree of cleaning, you are going to have to run it longer. |
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Anybody else finding the media holding a magnitic charge yet?
'Borg |
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Quoted: Anybody else finding the media holding a magnitic charge yet? 'Borg No have not seen any evidence of magnitization of the SS media. |
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How much louder is this compared to a normal vibratory tumbler? Does it cause the same amount of vibrations? I live in an apartment so I typically only tumble brass when the neighbors are gone and I put it in a closed room to "lessen" the noise. I keep thinking of picking one of these up and just keep the vibratory one for removing case lube and whatnot. I'm assuming you guys are running universal decapping pins so as to not muck up your sizing dies correct?
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Quoted: This is indeed a downside to using the Thumler's Tumbler - it is louder and the vibration is significant greater probably because you are moving a lot more mass. You can reduce it by putting it on some shock absorbing material but it will not go away. If you look at my tumbler in this thread, How much louder is this compared to a normal vibratory tumbler? Does it cause the same amount of vibrations? I live in an apartment so I typically only tumble brass when the neighbors are gone and I put it in a closed room to "lessen" the noise. I keep thinking of picking one of these up and just keep the vibratory one for removing case lube and whatnot. I'm assuming you guys are running universal decapping pins so as to not muck up your sizing dies correct? http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=344832 You will see that I put an extra brace on the right side of the motor. A big impetus to do this was to reduce vibration. However, even with this enhancement, when I run my tumbler on my row around work bench (4" x 8' x 4") and weighting in around 300lbs, the whole thing still vibrate enough for me to take my laptop off it to avoid potential damage to its HD. My plan is to put it on the basement floor which is concrete.... Yes, when I decap before, I use the universal decapping die. |
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