I mean...
Some of their issues (in the past) were caused by them (namely the 308 gas update that was addressing the Inrange and Garand Thumb videos)

Other stuff like the broken charging handles...well...they don't handle guns like their consumers (or their varied experiences)...so..sometimes that stuff has to be brought back to them.

I dunno why other YouTubers aren't doing videos..Maybe they haven't had a copy shipped to them (or like me,had to buy one which this isnt a gun for everyone.)

I think I learned far more about the various changes to the gun from that one relase vid with Nic Young than I did during all of the shot show coverage of the rifle.

Shotshow content is almost always very shallow. Probably a product of the environment not being conducive to in-depth content, and influencers trying to get the first video out on some new project, vs a in depth review.

Desert Tech and PWS were the standouts to me for releasing content going in-depth on new products. I think they could of done more, but as an engineer I could watch a 4 hour video as they describe all the parts and processes to the nth degree.

Yeah, but if you're gunning for a military contract, like they tried with the MDRX, the rifle has to be able to withstand physical abuse. Infantrymen crawl in the desert with their rifles, over hot rocks and through thorn bushes. They crawl through the mud. The rifle bakes in the hot sun all day. They sleep in the rain with their weapon, they run up mountains and tumble down hills, all while running on less than 5 hours of sleep per night. Sure, they clean their weapons at every break, but those weapons get put through alot.

A company would need to test these things.

To be fair...even Iwi gets broken charging Handles from time to time..I see every so often on the facebooks.

I dont disagree that some rifles should be tested a little better.

Yeah we're on the same page. Even issued M16A4s get broken sometimes. That's why the military has armorers.

Oddly enough the MDR/MDRx was advertised as going through a lot of military tests.  Ranging from FOD, stoppages, ice, water.

There is probably some videos around on it, but I know some water issues in the MDR lead to a redesigned Gas Block/Trunnion design to let trapped water escape.  They also reported stoppages per several thousands rounds in the MDR/MDRx and WLVRN.  They have been more transparent on those kinds of internal testing than most (presumably self funded rather than in a competition).

Re watching the video their findings resulted in over pressure plugs to protect the shooter in the event of stuff plugging the bore.  Did the WLVRN remove the plugs?

They still didn't catch the weak Charging Handles or the Tunnion Fasteners loosening for 4 years though.  

The broken charging handles afaik is form users not reading the manual when removing the barrel. Generally I would consider IWI guns to be very robust, more so than what the MDRX/WLVRN is, but then the Tavor 7 also weighs 2lbs more than the WLVRN in 308. (my T7 is 9.4 lbs empty)

Also the first Tavors started development in 1995, almost 2 decades before we hear anything about the MDR, so the Tavor is an older, more mature system. I think the Wlvrn might be mature in design by now, and I certianly hope so since I bought one haha.

I think some of the issues, like the charging handles and trunnion fasteners was a product of the constraints of the aluminum extrusion they set early on in the devolvement, so the engineers had to work within the confines of that set extrusion profile, Limited room for the charging handle to beef it up, and thickness of the walls at the trunnion (i'm assuming) already set in place in the extrusion profile. Not an expert in extrusions, but I would guess they finally re did the extrusion dies, outside stayed the same, and they redid the internal profile to integrate features to solve some of the issues.  

Long ago I said I think the MDR suffers from some fundamental design issues, centered around the upper extrusion, and I would most likely buy one if they did a complete redesign of it. The WLVRN is less of a redesign than I would have like to seen, but I think they got the MDRX pretty close to ironed out, and the WLVRN is them fixing those fundamental issues finally. (hopefully)

A Question for the Q and A.

9.4..Iwi lists it a 9...That is..heavy..

Naw this wasn't related to taking the rifle down. This was through use..and motaring..

I just looked at the WLVRN vs Sabertooth video.

The WLVRN has the plugs removed.  The Sabertooth still has them.

Yep, I was weighing rifles for fun and surprised IWI rounded down to the nearest pound. It's possible my scale is off, but when I weighed my Carmel, it was  within 1/2 oz of what IWI states.

What am I looking for to confirm?

It might be more of a DT thing, why remove the pressure release port on the civillian flavor only.

Did DT improve the way the handguard is mounted?  Problems with the previous design allowed the HG to loosen by putting any decent pressure on it.

?   Mine never did that.

They don't loosen by putting pressure on them.
They lose zero for any irons or lasers you might have on that section.The alluminum variants don't do that.. LuckyIrishman handguard would need a sledge hammer to be taken to it first as it has its own unique mounting system.

The Handgaurd for the Wlvrn is currently just an  Mdrx handgaurd.

Good to know.  I'll give this platform a year or so and see more reviews before taking a chance.

I don't think there's anything suspicious about DT not sending out samples to youtubers at launch. They are a small company, will have no problem selling all the rifles they build for a while, and likely the 10K it would cost to dedicate a bunch of rifles to this purpose would hit them harder than it would a big company like Ruger or S&W.

Personally I am totally fine with that, I don't need to watch a half a dozen videos from shills going over the spec sheet and then magdumping.

High round count mag dump videos are useful for determining reliability. Desert Tech does not have a history of the most reliable MDRs.

I disagree. If a gun will cycle a given load in a given condition, it will generally do so and keep doing so as fast as you pull the trigger, particularly at a rate and round count relevant to us who are limited to semi auto.

The difficulties with reliability come with running the gun dry, running it dirty, running it in heat, in cold, etc. Sometimes reliability, or at least usability, issues can be exposed from running the gun from different positions and with different setups. And then there's parts breakage from high round counts. Your not gonna get any of that from blasting a few hundred rounds from offhand or the bench on a nice sunny day. It takes a lot of time training with a weapon to get to know its weaknesses and quirks, and every weapon has some.

I agree.  I've lost a lot of respect for the youtuber's over the years - and consider most of them misleading half-asses; and a few are outright shills.  I'm fine with DT not catowing to them and sending them rifles and cash payments.  I think there are less "shills", than accused (though the Iraq-Gulf-whateverVet-guy who had a price-list; was just over the top).  But most of them are just sloppy.   I think most of the professional youtuber's are now a structured business with a schedule and revenue generation plan first-priority - which is a volume focused model;  and an actual passion for the guns, a very distant forth place priority.  Rare is a youtuber willing to take a gun over 2 months and put 1000 rounds thought it, quantify accuracy etc.  The high-round count guys, typically are just machine-gunning it, and if they hit a 200 yard gong, consider that good accuracy.  no - it's not.  I do that with my Stribog 9mm and a red-dot.

And with that, most of the youtube video's are just misleading shit.  First thing almost all of them do now is put a suppressor on every gun they review.  Well that's great, you just changed everything about that gun from it's operating system harmonics to its barrel harmonics to its balance to its recoil.   Almost all of them do that on every gun now.  I was in shock when Garand Thumb couldn't figure out how to get a suppressor on his M1D video - so rare is that.  (Though then he ran it with M2 ball and did accuracy judgements - sigh).

I'm cool testing guns with suppressors as part of the total evaluation.  But with the MDR,x,y the barrels can be VERY springing  (as in fucking BOIIINNGGG! flopping around like a fish on every shot).  Putting a big ass bulb of steel as a counter-weight on the end of the muzzle of an MDR barrel system absolutely has potential to greatly tighten up groups like a barrel tuner.  ... If you happen to run suppressors.  So is that the deal? I have to spend $2600 on the rifle and then an additional $1000 suppressor that I have to wait a year for and get myself into the NFA, to actually shoot?   Who knows, because no youtuber actually comparison tests such things.

If you want to learn honest reviews on this gun, places like this forum will be where you can actually see that.  And I look forward to just that!  If a factory MDRy in 6.5 CM shoots 1.5 MOA repeatable with no wild fliers being a routine aspect, and does so with full-house 140 gr match ammo - I'm very interested.  Changing the Trunion system might actually do that - so I'm watching with hope!

(quote cut short because of limited characters for newbies like me)

Same boat with youtubers, if it's a low quality production and it doesn't seem to be their day job, I'll give more credibility to what they say. (that said I'm probably biased as Ive been doing some low production quality youtube reviews because I feel like it) Soon as it becomes their day job, or they get "stuff" I no longer view them as a source of reviews, just entertainment. Youtubers have turned into the gun magazine garbage from 20 years ago, where everything is awesome! Even some of them more open about bias or sources of guns, they are still doing that as their primary source of income, and can't just shit on something that would cause them to loose followers or no longer get freebies from manufactures.

Far as DT releasing this, I'm ok without the cringy blast of videos on embargo lift day, Hellion comes to mind.  Anything released that day was a "paid" advertisement and it was pathetic watching all the youtubers trying to be first to get the most views.  The First Wlvrn video posted by a member here was worth 1000 big name youtuber release day videos.

Far as suppressor use, I'm guilty of this as I primarily shoot my guns suppressed, if I can, so when I post content, it was mostly suppressed shooting. I'm not getting paid to shoot, so for me, my comfort is more important than getting unsuppressed data. That said if I get my 308 Wlvrn (Said maybe end of this month), I will try to do some unsuppressed shooting and grouping.

If you let me know what ammo your using, I can also see if I can replicate your results.

I have some ammo to compare with my Mdrx results.
I have
SnB168gr Hpbt,
FedGold Match 168gr (currently at 1.2moa supressed),
Winchester Match 168gr
(I might order some 175gr m118lr clone)

Other stuff I've been collecting..

Federal 130gr Varmit & Predator
S&B Blue 110Gr Txgr
American Eagle 150gr (saw this in an Mdrx test)
Winchester 149gr M80 Ball
Adrenaline BCC 149gr
165gr Tula

So..whatever you use..Lemme know

Cold Bore Miracle posted his "review" Faik he works for DT so take his review with a grain of salt.

https://coldboremiracle.com/2024/04/09/desert-tech-wlvrn-bullpup/

Can you link the video here?

Right now I have some cheap AAC 150 FMJ (seemed to shoot well in my T7), and IMI M80 (not so well in my T7). I think I have some Hornady 168 Match, but I'll probably go to the local store and pick up some various match ammo.

I might have some 168 hpbt bulk ammo that I don't know the manufacture of (supposedly its mil/le contract over run, but no way of verifying) that also did well in my T7. (doesn't help you for comparison) but still it seems to be good ammo.

I also have a PSA M110AH (At Home) Rifle I can try loads thru for comparison if time permits.

My ideal process will probably be to run 100 or so IMI thru it to function test and overall initial impressions, do some sight in, accuracy testing with that, then move to AAC, try that for general function and accuracy (its hotter than the IMI stuff) then start trying match ammo. 100 yards on paper. Ideally I would do 10 round groups, but depending on how rich i'm feeling that day, I may do multiple 5 rounders instead.

Optics will be a Credo 1-6x in a Scalarworks mount, and Tenmile 3-18 in a MI QD mount. Mags will be 20 and 25 round Pmags and Lancers. Credo 1-6 will probably live on it full time assuming I like the results. Maybe I'll spring for a Credo 1-10 when I recover from buying the Wlvrn.

Of course, who knows when I will really get my Wlvrn. Salesperson I spoke to last month said possibly end of this month, so its not a firm delivery date, but we will see.

Wow. The first real video review of the Wlvrn. Thanks for that!

The Wlvrn rifle was named after the Marvel comics character known as Wolverine.

They call him a superhero, but perhaps it is you.

You're the hero here.

Bonus points if you're get the movie reference that's from.  

Agreed, the review was great!

Also, Sabertooth is Marvel character as well.  He is a half brother of Wolverine.  Aside from loosing vowels they did put some thought into the name connections.

In honor of the rifle!

https://images.app.goo.gl/sZ7oqcKSEBrHPNbX8

Its funny you mention the Credo ..I got a little flac on youtube (1 guy only) about using a far cheaper optic..But how much optic do I really need for a 100yard group lol

In 223..There is at least  2 (one major one not) youtubers who have gotten sub moa 5 shot groups in the MDR/X with a couple different loads..
Both are fully loaded out (including a suppressor)..
As for a sub minute 308 bullpup..I haven't seen it..1-1.5 (ammo specific) seems to be the place these hang out at..Which is still plenty good.

No kidding, it is like one brand of ammo, unless you use a suppressor.

Credo is really nice. I was on a mission to find a lpvo that offered a good reticle and eyebox, and the credo seemed to be a good fit. I really like it and its a nice scope. I do have the cheap Sig MSR 1-6x, if you look at them side by side, and really focus on the differences (and if its dark out) you can tell the credo is a little better, but from a practical use, I don't really see much difference if at all.  

Same thing with my Tenmile, friend had a Atibal or arken 5-25 and it did really well. Looking at targets at long range you can start to see some better clarity and definition with the Tenmile, but once again, its such a small difference and as long as the scope held zero and that, wouldn't be at a disadvantage. I justify the cost as I'm getting a little more picky with optics (ugh...thanks C_Does!) and I just feel better looking thru a Japanese trijicon than some random brand chinese optic.

My Tavor 7, if I use good ammo I can get into the 1-1.5 moa range. Hoping the Wlvrn can do that or hopefully a little bit better.

https://imgur.com/a/0S7T0Sv

I'm also in that range with the Mdrx.
*only with a supressor attached.

That 5 (5)shot groups average 1.32moa
Ranging from smallest 0.87moa to largest at 1.87moa.

Niiice!

Not .308, but sub-MOA with 6.5CM (with a can). Cautiously optimistic.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Desert-Tech-WLVRN/43-551235/

Not as interesting..Same guy was in the Desert Tech Rivalry vids (also woth a can).
They posted 0.75..moa with 140gr Fed Bergers

Yeah. I’m definitely waiting on more owner evals, without a can.

A compact, reliable and accurate semi auto .308 really would be nice.

There's a guy on Facebook with a 308 Wlvrn that did  a 5 shot group for 168 fed Gold and 168 Ppu that were 1.5 and 1.2moa respectively..

No supressor used in that test. (I'll be aquireing some of the ppu for my own test later as I don't have any though the Mdrx for side by side comparisons)

Pics of the groups are in my Wlvrn accuracy thread

Encouraging!

That is fantastic!  Do we know of any reports of those ammos tested in the MDRx?

Just the Fed Gold Medal. At 1.8.moa (5 shot group) unsupressed .
Hsm 168gr are the other group.

This American Rifleman review also averaged also averaged 1.8moa
(1.6moa and a 1 9moa.)

The Ppu I don't have info on and will be ordering (hoping it's cheaper than Fed Gold Medal)

Mac noticed a slop issue in the front Pin that I have also found in the Wlvrn

Well that was timely, 2 weeks after the DT CEO said he hated the tolerance/rattle in the ar15.

Saw this video review of the MDRX, and he says his MDRX rear sling mounting point broke off. Anyone know if this has been fixed in the Wlvrn?