http://form1suppressor.boards.net/thread/346/dm-vsrs-80-internals

I can't imagine an application that would have a barrel that thick.  Griffin's thread is 1"-20UNF

Thank you much. More reading to do!

Guys, I swear I'm reading through the thread - and will keep reading it - but am somehow missing an important detail.  Most of the online sources I found asked what vehicle the FPs were for.  I'm embarrassed to say I don't know what make/model corresponds to a .300BLK .  For those of you who have been down this road before, what size (including wall height, if that matters) would do best (tube length will be ~ 8")?  And does wall height matter much?

I originally ordered a dozen Dormans, after reading this thread and efiling. They were hard as fuck to form. I'll never buy them again. I ended up just crushing the few I'd formed and getting the SPs IIRC I ordered the Sealed Powers through NAPA via Amazon and had them delivered to my door.

Well I want to submit one more form 1 suppressor before the trusts are no good anymore. But when I try to log Onto the atf site I keep getting errors. I have cleared cache and tried from multiple devices I keep getting log exception errors. Have any of you encountered this before. And I am kinda at a loss of what to do.

Trusts will still be good after July.  You'll just have to submit fingerprints & photos for each trustee.

Hugely helpful guys.  Thank you.

The dorman ones are stamped "CHINA" right where you form them, if you try to put to deep of a cone on them, I noticed that the lettering tends to "Tear" the metal.

Topic Moved

Just submitted my Form 1

Nice, in a few months let us know how it went. :)  The wait sucks ass but the result is worth it.

It sucked when I did my sbr, especially when the efile system was messing up and deleted my trust name . Ted Clutter got me squared away though, he approved my amended form 1 the same day I emailed him.

1995 Buick Century 3.1L V6 is one of the vehicles that will bring up the proper freeze plugs (381-3179) in the parts store computers.

What are some "bad" 1" diameter freeze plugs to avoid, and/or super-duper ones to go out of my way to get?  Does anyone have a 1" diameter valve spring retainer to recommend?  Yes, it's for a planned .22LR can...

Has anyone used one of SD's Challenge Coins?

The NIsson GTR/350z retainers are typically .995" od with .28" holes as an example, but there would be many.  I had posted pictures of nice shaped Ti one in one of the other threads before.

What is going on w/ the page numbering of this thread since it was moved?  Just clicked on the last post, and was told I was simultaneously on page 1 of 118 (w/ a single post) and page 235 of 118.

I also did a double take.
WTH?

Might let GoatBoy know that the database pointers need reindexing.  He'll probably have to kick us all off for 24 hours and produce endless speculation as to why we shut down.  

I've only seen one post from someone that got one but didn't catch any follow up on the real world effect/impact.    In 'theory' it sounds like it might work.  In practice I think the torsion on the barrel from the bullet passing through teh rifling and the inertial mass of the can is going to greatly override any potential thrust effect of blast gasses passing through that vent system.  

Youre probably far better off using a solid QD system with a good lock up (Griffin or YHM) or having your barrel and can mount threaded oppositing your rifling which typically means left hand threads which causes the can to tighten up instead of loosen up assuming standard rifling twist.

But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I wasn't planning on using it myself, just curious if anyone else has. I went with the YHM QD mount.

I saw it and thought about it but I assumed it was a gimmick.



 

That's what I thought as well.

I've been reading this thread since it was many more pages and all of the merges and movings confuse me but....

I'm looking to build three Form 1 cans.  The first is going to be a 9mm and I'm looking for light so I want Titanium... I think.


I say I think because I have a SilencerCO Octane 9 HD barrel end adapter than I want to use with the creation of this can.  It's made of stainless steel then coated in black oxide.  I think I read that you can have issues if you mix metal material of tube and end-caps but were those warnings primarly for aluminum pieces?  Will I be fine with a ti tube and this barrel adapter?


Next up, I'm looking to see who can make a tube that would accept this adapter on the barrel end.  I believe the tube-side of this adapter is 28TPI but if someone can confirm that that would be super swell.  Is this the common thread that the tubes are made in or is it the same threads as another popular suppressor manufacturer?


Would it be easier/less expensive to have someone build me their tube with the threads the normally use and then an adapter as well?  I need a 18x1 for my CZ Scorpion and the last I looked into it it was going to require me to be a CAD expert to blueprint what I wanted exactly.  I would prefer sourcing someone who knows what I want so I can just tell them what thread I need and they can handle it from there.  Again, probably just easier to use the SilencerCO adapter that I already have.


I also plan to build a suppressor roughly the same length, width & weight as my Octane 9 HD if possible.  I realize some of those measurements won't be spot on and I'm planning on that... just using it as a loose diagram since I've never built a F1 can and plan to build several.


All of that being said, I'm currently looking at Diversified Machine's website because it seems to be about the most user friendly for those new to F1 out of those spoken of here.  It looks like I'm looking at an OAL of about 7.5" and a diameter of about 1.37" if I'm trying to keep to the measurements of my Octane 9 HD.  I realize I won't be exact on those & don't want to make a lot more work for myself trying to get closer to those than I will notice in use.  


Do I select the 7" kit they sell or the 8" kit?  I'm guessing the 7" kit and it'll end up slightly longer with the cap/adapter or is that factoring in the caps?  The end caps are varied and while some look cool is there any functional benefit to them?  Does one or the other allow you to remove them with certain tools or is one sought after for one reason or another I'm not aware of?  I think the 'low-profile' one would fit the bill but the 'advanced' one sure looks neato too.  Then, what about spacers?  Should I just get the other parts in the kit first and wait for spacers until I get the stamp back or are the spacers considered NFA items like formed freeze plugs?


I really would like to get rolling on these F1 suppressors but I feel like the longer I'm subscribed to this thread the more questions I get than answers.  I then back burner it and by the time I come back around I forget most of what I learned.  I'd like to just get some stuff specified for my project so I can finally order up parts & do paperwork if you guys are able to help me out.

Thanks for the reference to the 350Z.  It helped me find Ferrea's E11079 VSRs; they're 25.4mm OD and handle a 6mm valve stem.  Should be great for my .22 can.

And it's good that nobody is saying "stay away from X" 1" freeze plugs.  I've found Dorman 555-018s at O'Reilly's Auto Parts for 49¢ each.

By barrel end adapter do you mean the LID or a fixed barrel adapter?  

You're fine mixing titanium and steel.

DM can make pretty much anything in my experience, worst case you send him the door knob and he'll build the house to fit it to make an analogy.

Unless you're talking about the LID (i.e. the linear inertial device that includes the mount, piston and spring etc) I would just check with DM to see which is cheaper for them to do.

Any reason you're wanting to stick with the Octane dimensions?  What host are you putting this on?

The lengths from DM are the final dimensions including end caps down to the third decimal point based on the several examples I have from him.   So if you go low profile end caps your tube will be slightly longer than if you go with longer end caps.

The various end caps provide some marginal benefits in theory.  The coned one gives you a final cone to help strip gasses, the low profile looks better if that's your thing etc.

For our purposes spacers may only be of use if you're trying to reduce weight but at the expense of suppression ability.  More plugs = more suppression = more weight.   More spacers = less weight = less suppression.

You can file your F1's now, in fact I'd recommend it.  Then worry about finalizing your tube size/build while you wait.    You just need to stick to the calibre and length you put on your F1.   It's been argued that you can go shorter than what you file, just not longer.  And reality is unless you do something that's going to get you in big trouble anyway, if your can ends up a quarter inch shorter than filed no one is going to care, BATFE agents aren't hiding in the bushes at the range with a tape measure.   The can has to be able to use the calibre you file it for.   No filing a .308 can and putting baffles with a .295 hole in them.   The general rule of thumb is file it for the largest calibre you're going to use it on.  

You probably know but you do not have submit blueprints or a design or anything like that.  The only hard data is the model and serial number you're going to put on it, the biggest calibre you're going to use it on and the overall length.

Fixed barrel.  This is for a CZ Scorpion Evo 3 and will remain dedicated to that firearm exclusively so I don't need any pistons or anything crazy.  I've got Form 4 suppressors with various adapters and pistons for Glocks & such.

 

I realize he can build the house around the door knob but that comes at a price.  I'm trying to make as affordable a suppressor I can because it's part of my 'el cheapo 2-stamp SMG' project.  I'm more wanting to know the most cost effective approach but I'm willing to make small concessions for things like Titanium that improve the results to a significant level.


I guess I need to check with DM and it sounds like a call is in order but reading the thread it seems like they get busier and busier but the month and the reply may be less-than-immediate.  I was hoping to get more specific information here to have a better idea of what parts I want before I contact them but I may have to anyway.


The reason for sticking with the Octane dimensions is just to try to get similar results in weight and performance.  I also need to keep the exterior diameter small enough to fit inside the handguard of the new CZ rifle because I plan to swap that handguard over once they make it available for purchase separate from the rifle.  Looks like it will fit more standard diameter 9mm suppressors so I just don't want to get crazy on size.  Since this is my first F1 can it seemed the easiest way to know what dimensions I wanted.  If you have a better suggestion I'm all ears.


I thought I recalled that the measurements of some kits or tubes were with caps but wasn't sure since there are different caps and such.  Sounds like they make the length tube based on which caps you choose to keep your OAL whatever you requested?  That's interesting and something I hadn't thought of and probably the best for your form 1 completion.


I get the more spacers the less the weight at the cost of suppression performance but I'm trying to find the best balance and again... aiming for the Octane as a point of reference.  Trying to keep this suppressor light weight but also want it to be a good performer as well.  I guess I'm looking for the best balance between the two like most are I'm sure.


I planned on filing the forms once I had a clear path on which way I was going to go with the three I plan to make.  Once I'm at the point of ordering parts I will say that my mind is pretty much made up so I'll process paperwork at that point but my mind may change before then.  I get the whole smaller/bigger thing with regards to filing before the thing is complete but if I can decide on parts to order I can be pretty exact for my paperwork.  Yes, I'm OCD like that.  This is why I would like some degree of hand holding from those here who are pros at this by now.  I'm just dipping a toe in and I need someone who feels like the water is great to help me in so to speak.  lol


I need to create a model & serial # for the paperwork too.  I realize I can literally put just about anything I want but I'm curious what others are putting for model & serial #.  I guess the serial # would be something like: s/n #0001 or something along those lines.  Are people actually creating a model name for them too?  I'd like to serialize the barrel side adapter for a few reasons so I'm probably going to keep these as short as possible.

Okay then your issues with OD make more sense.  :)

Titanium isn't 'better', indeed it can be not as good if you burn through a lot of ammo in a short period of time.  That's a fairly uncommon scenario though.   So titanium is basically lighter and you pay for that weight loss.  

For a shorter tube I personally don't know that titanium is worth the expense but if you're very weight concious then it probably is.   I went with titanium for one of my 7" 9mm cans  1.5" OD but is it significantly lighter than the 7" stainless tube I made at the same time for a 300BO?   Not appreciably as a whole once you stuff it with freeze plugs, a stainless blast chamber and a muzzle brake.  

Do go into this knowing hat your can is not going to equal a Octane.   We've only had one set of valid tests posted of freezeplug cans and they ran about 10db over a commercial can on a centerfire rifle calibre.

The tradeoffs for us using FP's or VSR's is more harsh since we're starting at a disadvantage in design.   The best possible suppression is to just stuff the tube with FP"s back to back.   And even then you're still running behind.  Each one you take out to save some weight puts you that much further behind the numbers.

With the Octane's less than 1.4" OD you're also giving up volume that you can only make up by making it longer.  If your handguard can squeeze a 1.5" OD in there with a tiny bit of room to spare you'll be better off but you can always go long to get more suppression.  Volume is a big player in suppression quality.  

LIke you say model and serial are fair game.  Some people go mundane and have generic model numbes and serials like 001.    I tend to go for humor or statement value.   Examples from my latter builds :   Model:  NOTABOOMSTICK   Serial:  SMAR7      Model:  REPEALTHENFA   Serial:  IN2016     MODEL:   HUSHLILBABY   Serial: WAAA11GH   Model:   ZOMBEE   Serial  BU2222  among others.  My first few were less interesting or inside jokes that only make sense to me and a couple of other folks.   :)  

I don't believe you can serialize an adapter.  YOu have to serialize a permanent piece of the suppressor that goes with it no matter what host it lives on.   So one of the end caps or the tube itself.   If that's what you meant then ignore that.  

Since these are permanent it does not hurt at all to take your time.   My first F4 order I agonized over for several weeks doing research but in the end I've not had any reason to regret those.  (Spectre, Specwar x 2, Octane).

I filed for my stamp, and started looking seriously at parts.  I think I'm going to go with a taller freeze plug than the one I mentioned earlier.  That one is only 0.25" tall, and I think that might limit my ability to form it.  I found another, Dorman's 555-017, which is about 0.4" tall, and that should allow me to deform the plug more.

And even though I'm building a .22 can, I'm seriously considering using a titanium VSR as the first component - the Ferrea VSR I mentioned earlier is the right OD and it's not expensive, so I can have something at the entrance to the can that will take the brunt of the powder gasses without eroding as quickly as steel might.

Any comments on these ideas would be appreciated.  I have LOTS of time to figure these things out!

Has anyone considered mounting a suppressor to the pistol rail, and dispensing w/ a piston?  (Sadly, won't work on a Glock).

 
How would you account with maintaining a seal between the barrel and can when the barrel of a locked-breech pistol "tips-up" when the slide cycles and the can is fixed to the frame?

Would be easier w/ a Beretta or a blowback .380", I'll grant.  Thought of this reading the folks complaining about their pistons venting and throwing crap on 'em.

It won't seal, certainly.  Depending on the length of the bbl past the front of the slide, you could overhang the can over the muzzle, but it won't seal.  Sounds as if the popular pistons are vented anyway.

I'm anticipating my stamp in the next few weeks, and I have a question about the exit end cap of my can.  When I drill the hole, I'm assuming it's a good idea to at least "ease" the edge of the hole inside.  Is it also a good idea to chamfer the exit side of the exit hole?

And to beat that same dead horse, the typical baffle/end cap hole is about 0.006" over the caliber bore, correct?  As in for a .22 LR (0.219" bore), I'd want an exactly 0.250" hole in the exit end cap, right?  How many steps should I take for this hole - just drill it out at 0.250, start with a 0.125 pilot then go to 0.250, or something else?  Is it better to "finish drill" the end cap slightly undersized, then "polish" it to the final size?

While I am really working on this as an exclusively rimfire can, I want to use the right techniques in building it, so when I build my next can (I don't know if it'll be .30 caliber or 9mm), I will have some practice with those techniques.

Any thoughts on the DM aluminum 22 kit for $75?

Originally Posted By The_Hammer:
Has anyone used one of SD's Challenge Coins?


Yes, can seems to stay tight - however I really wrench it on and leave it on one rifle during my range sessions.

YMMV

I really am trying to read through this whole thread, but there is a LOT since the last time I checked in. I've seen several folks state that aluminum is not suitable for a rifle silencer. Do you mean that it's not suitable for .308 or for any rifle caliber? Would a kit like one of these be suitable for an 8" .300 BLK firing supersonic ammo?

And this is why I asked - I can't depend on remembering an important detail from umpteen pages back.

Anyway, on to the other part of that question.  Should I drill the finished size in the first go, or in steps?  And if in steps, how man?  This is an aluminum end cap, if that matters.

One of the Euro manufacturers had a design like that on paper.  I believe it was SIG.



 

The Dorman 555-018 plugs are what came in my 22 kit and they are 1/4" tall.

I bought the -017s, which I hope to be able to get some more deformation than with a 1/4" tall plug.  Just waiting for that stamp.  Should be in within a couple of weeks.

I'm noticing that the lip of the plugs are not flat. They've got a ripple to them, and when butted up against spacer material, there are some slight gaps.



Does it matter? Should I attempt to grind them flat? Leave it?









ETA - Also, it seems easy to get the cone a hair crooked, which, I'm guessing is because the rim of the plug is not straight either. the holes are oversized, and the tube will be holding the plugs straight by the walls, so does it really matter?


Just figured I'd ask before I form them all and realize I've goofed.



 

Forgive my n00biness. But you can efile a form 1 for a suppressor? Is there a guide anywhere I could find?
Thanks

No offense dude but... Seriously?

You asked that question in a 118 page thread about nothing but building form 1 suppressors.

Yes you can E File for a form 1 can. There is a step by step visual guide stickied to the top of this sub form. Or you could google e file visual guide.

Plenty of people here willing to help but you have to take a little initiative.

My apologies. I had a ton of questions of form 1 cans. Googled it but couldnt find anything. I'll be more careful next time.