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AUS
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Posted: 1/24/2024 9:05:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: Is Wilcox paying B.E. Meyers for the privilege of using VCSEL or are they stealing as well? Same for Z-Bolt? No, they are a US company making a complimentary high-quality product to the MAWL C1+ - they are not trying take the budget market, they're offering another option to the professional consumer market that wants a quality product. Also you're missing the point as most have, Meyers pioneered the use of VCSEL in this type of device, they made it work and for the civilian market they ran the legislative gauntlet to get 150mW and 67mW laser based devices accepted as a civilian category and they did this by being clever with divergence angles so as to both ensure good brightness and throw. Again what has Holosun done? Is there any innovation? Or is it simply cheap? These are rhetorical questions. With anything NV related you get what you pay for. Something like the MAWL C1+ is an excellent device and yet people want a "full power" device and yet they don't know what that really means or even what its really for. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2024 9:15:24 PM EDT
[#2]
With voltage regulators, the light shouldn't really dim on low battery. Definitely want to see more. I'm not interested in another anemic civilian illuminator.
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Posted: 1/24/2024 9:36:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ashiha: With voltage regulators, the light shouldn't really dim on low battery. Definitely want to see more. I'm not interested in another anemic civilian illuminator. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2024 10:42:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: No, they are a US company making a complimentary high-quality product to the MAWL C1+ - they are not trying take the budget market, they're offering another option to the professional consumer market that wants a quality product. Also you're missing the point as most have, Meyers pioneered the use of VCSEL in this type of device, they made it work and for the civilian market they ran the legislative gauntlet to get 150mW and 67mW laser based devices accepted as a civilian category and they did this by being clever with divergence angles so as to both ensure good brightness and throw. Again what has Holosun done? Is there any innovation? Or is it simply cheap? These are rhetorical questions. With anything NV related you get what you pay for. Something like the MAWL C1+ is an excellent device and yet people want a "full power" device and yet they don't know what that really means or even what its really for. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: Originally Posted By DDS87: Is Wilcox paying B.E. Meyers for the privilege of using VCSEL or are they stealing as well? Same for Z-Bolt? No, they are a US company making a complimentary high-quality product to the MAWL C1+ - they are not trying take the budget market, they're offering another option to the professional consumer market that wants a quality product. Also you're missing the point as most have, Meyers pioneered the use of VCSEL in this type of device, they made it work and for the civilian market they ran the legislative gauntlet to get 150mW and 67mW laser based devices accepted as a civilian category and they did this by being clever with divergence angles so as to both ensure good brightness and throw. Again what has Holosun done? Is there any innovation? Or is it simply cheap? These are rhetorical questions. With anything NV related you get what you pay for. Something like the MAWL C1+ is an excellent device and yet people want a "full power" device and yet they don't know what that really means or even what its really for. No offense, maybe it's because you are Australian. But you don't make any sense to American thought and logic. |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 11:29:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ashiha: With voltage regulators, the light shouldn't really dim on low battery. Definitely want to see more. I'm not interested in another anemic civilian illuminator. I was thinking this as well. In the few instances where the battery died during use (ATPIAL-C and MAWL-C1+), it was working fine and then stopped working. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2024 11:50:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Visigothic]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: I've always read and heard that the extra settings never did anything, so I haven't tried it. Might have to give it a test sometime, but the VWS focusing cap really helps the illuminator at mid-range distances. The settings do differ the output but there is really no need for them in that the Civi HP settings are needed for any outdoor use at distance. The Full Powered /HP models use the same switching positions with a safety screw. It was probably done for cost savings in manufacturing. I would like to know if its a different diode or just throttled back via a resister. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2024 11:58:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: Also you're missing the point as most have, Meyers pioneered the use of VCSEL in this type of device, they made it work and for the civilian market they ran the legislative gauntlet to get 150mW and 67mW laser based devices accepted as a civilian category and they did this by being clever with divergence angles so as to both ensure good brightness and throw. Again what has Holosun done? Is there any innovation? Or is it simply cheap? These are rhetorical questions. As for innovation, one could argue that getting it down to the price point that it did could be a sort of innovation, no? |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 12:54:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tranzformer: No offense, maybe it's because you are Australian. But you don't make any sense to American thought and logic. He always thinks he's the smartest guy in any room he's in, and that everyone is entitled to his opinion, which is often based on circular and faulty logic. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 1:38:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: No, they are a US company making a complimentary high-quality product to the MAWL C1+ - they are not trying take the budget market, they're offering another option to the professional consumer market that wants a quality product. Also you're missing the point as most have, Meyers pioneered the use of VCSEL in this type of device, they made it work and for the civilian market they ran the legislative gauntlet to get 150mW and 67mW laser based devices accepted as a civilian category and they did this by being clever with divergence angles so as to both ensure good brightness and throw. Again what has Holosun done? Is there any innovation? Or is it simply cheap? These are rhetorical questions. With anything NV related you get what you pay for. Something like the MAWL C1+ is an excellent device and yet people want a "full power" device and yet they don't know what that really means or even what its really for. Everything that guy just said is bullshit. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 2:01:57 AM EDT
[#10]
I guess we should all stop driving cars then? Good lord...
Guys. This thread is starting to read in a very bipolar manner. We are all over the place. I don't think these units are finalized. I really do believe that Holosun brought pre production units to the show and that they're still working on them. Their "fusion" devices were pre production devices last year and they only began shipping last month. Look at how those changed in the timespan of a year. I really do believe that Holosun is not blind to what the market wants. They have immense design and manufacturing capability and I really don't think they're going to let something like domination of a market slip through their fingers. Yes, it's a niche market but it's a growing market. For everyone that spent a ton of money on their existing units. Meh, that's the way it goes. Use what you've got. It's not like the existing units are suddenly inferior in performance at this current time. If Holosun fails, so be it. We will move on to the next unit and hope that someone else steps in and actually creates a useful MFAL at civilian power levels. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 4:51:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: I guess we should all stop driving cars then? Good lord... Guys. This thread is starting to read in a very bipolar manner. We are all over the place. I don't think these units are finalized. I really do believe that Holosun brought pre production units to the show and that they're still working on them. Their "fusion" devices were pre production devices last year and they only began shipping last month. Look at how those changed in the timespan of a year. I really do believe that Holosun is not blind to what the market wants. They have immense design and manufacturing capability and I really don't think they're going to let something like domination of a market slip through their fingers. Yes, it's a niche market but it's a growing market. For everyone that spent a ton of money on their existing units. Meh, that's the way it goes. Use what you've got. It's not like the existing units are suddenly inferior in performance at this current time. If Holosun fails, so be it. We will move on to the next unit and hope that someone else steps in and actually creates a useful MFAL at civilian power levels. People just want this to be real. It's almost too good to be true. So it makes sense that people will go from excited to being let down quickly. The IR market has been overpriced for far too long. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 6:13:09 AM EDT
[#12]
I honestly just think holosun made a mistake showing a unit that want ready for prime time. Whether the finalized unit will live up the hype remains to be seen, but I can't imagine that they'd wanna release a product that barely, if at all, outperforms current offerings.
Don't worry fellow poors, holosun still has time to make this right. Otherwise we still have the ACAL, which while it seems it will cost ~$600 more, is still shaping up to be a compelling option of its own. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 8:02:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: I honestly just think holosun made a mistake showing a unit that want ready for prime time. Whether the finalized unit will live up the hype remains to be seen, but I can't imagine that they'd wanna release a product that barely, if at all, outperforms current offerings. IMHO, the problem was letting a journalist run an uncontrolled test on a prototype product and not even be there to deal with any problems that crop up. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 10:17:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: I guess we should all stop driving cars then? Good lord... Guys. This thread is starting to read in a very bipolar manner. We are all over the place. I don't think these units are finalized. I really do believe that Holosun brought pre production units to the show and that they're still working on them. Their "fusion" devices were pre production devices last year and they only began shipping last month. Look at how those changed in the timespan of a year. I really do believe that Holosun is not blind to what the market wants. They have immense design and manufacturing capability and I really don't think they're going to let something like domination of a market slip through their fingers. Yes, it's a niche market but it's a growing market. For everyone that spent a ton of money on their existing units. Meh, that's the way it goes. Use what you've got. It's not like the existing units are suddenly inferior in performance at this current time. If Holosun fails, so be it. We will move on to the next unit and hope that someone else steps in and actually creates a useful MFAL at civilian power levels. Well said. I believe these are prototypes. At the huge Holosun booth there was only 1 or 2 of these units despite being probably Half dozen of each of the existing products. Reps had to search for the Iris each time. This further leads me to believe they have a couple prototypes and that’s it. So lot’s of stuff we don’t know for 100% sure yet- as with many new product launches. When we placed an order for some of these yesterday afternoon we were told Q2 (summer) and MAP was going to be $899. I wrote that on the page of the catalog and put a pic of it on our IG page for some that were asking there. Are there going to be trade offs versus buying say a D2? Well of course guys, you’re not paying $1900. Initial thoughts are the wire to the pressure pad seemed a little thinner than Steiner’s offerings- again may be a prototype but maybe not as far as that goes. Does have a fire button on the unit for those that don’t want to use a remote switch. It’s more compact than a D2, doesn’t have that lunchbox feel that the D2 does. The closest Steiner offering in price now would be the A3 at several hundred higher, with the D2 a little higher than that. The ACAL is clearly still not near production and I have a feeling that will be Lucky to ship this year, given what I was told. I’ll try to post more pics, etc. when I get back from the show. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 10:18:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: I guess we should all stop driving cars then? Good lord... Guys. This thread is starting to read in a very bipolar manner. We are all over the place. I don't think these units are finalized. I really do believe that Holosun brought pre production units to the show and that they're still working on them. Their "fusion" devices were pre production devices last year and they only began shipping last month. Look at how those changed in the timespan of a year. I really do believe that Holosun is not blind to what the market wants. They have immense design and manufacturing capability and I really don't think they're going to let something like domination of a market slip through their fingers. Yes, it's a niche market but it's a growing market. For everyone that spent a ton of money on their existing units. Meh, that's the way it goes. Use what you've got. It's not like the existing units are suddenly inferior in performance at this current time. If Holosun fails, so be it. We will move on to the next unit and hope that someone else steps in and actually creates a useful MFAL at civilian power levels. Well said. I believe these are prototypes. At the huge Holosun booth there was only 1 or 2 of these units despite being probably Half dozen of each of the existing products. Reps had to search for the Iris each time. This further leads me to believe they have a couple prototypes and that’s it. So lot’s of stuff we don’t know for 100% sure yet- as with many new product launches. When we placed an order for some of these yesterday afternoon we were told Q2 (summer) and MAP was going to be $899. I wrote that on the page of the catalog and put a pic of it on our IG page for some that were asking there. Are there going to be trade offs versus buying say a D2? Well of course guys, you’re not paying $1900. Initial thoughts are the wire to the pressure pad seemed a little thinner than Steiner’s offerings- again may be a prototype but maybe not as far as that goes. Does have a fire button on the unit for those that don’t want to use a remote switch. It’s more compact than a D2, doesn’t have that lunchbox feel that the D2 does. The closest Steiner offering in price now would be the A3 at several hundred higher, with the D2 a little higher than that. The ACAL is clearly still not near production and I have a feeling that will be Lucky to ship this year, given what I was told. I’ll try to post more pics, etc. when I get back from the show. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 12:02:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Daggertt]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Are there going to be trade offs versus buying say a D2? Well of course guys, you're not paying $1900. ...Snip... The closest Steiner offering in price now would be the A3 at several hundred higher, with the D2 a little higher than that. The ACAL is clearly still not near production and I have a feeling that will be Lucky to ship this year, given what I was told. I'll try to post more pics, etc. when I get back from the show. If it was initially presented as a d2 alternative at $1900 or an $800 unit comparable to an a3, then there wouldn't have been any excitement. The initial trigger that got everyone pumped was the video posted a few days ago of the full power unit without clarifying that it's not the civilian model everyone's reading about. That video description has been updated, but now we're all just disappointed. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 12:35:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KaerMorhenResident]
[#17]
 SHOT Show NEW Laser Aiming Modules Too early to make any declarative statements about these units. Sounds like neither the ACAL or the IRIS are in their final production forms, we're somwhere between concept and pre-production at this point in time. I'm glad that this video points out that the Holosun Reps seemed to have zero clue about the IRIS's illuminator other than to say it was VCSEL, which I don't think the Reps even know what that means. Like the one thing everyone wanted to know what the power on the VCSEL and yeah, even the brochure for it seems to have been wrong...possibly? ZERO news on EOTech's OGL is sad. Like zero progress on the civilian front, none, zip, nadda. Kind of frustrating when companies will make announcements that a product will go into production and then are either unwilling or unable to release the product for over a year. If you want to "tease" a product show it as a "Concept". So, it just looks like it's very unlikely that EOTech is going to release the Civilian OGL this year. My spider senses are telling me that the IRIS and the ACAL probably will not be available until late this year or even early next year knowing how manufacturing goes, but we'll see. Thank God though for BrassFacts and Hop, they actually know what they're talking about and actually are going to show us what we want to see instead of the "here is another pistol or lever action gun." |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 12:42:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Well said. I believe these are prototypes. At the huge Holosun booth there was only 1 or 2 of these units despite being probably Half dozen of each of the existing products. Reps had to search for the Iris each time. This further leads me to believe they have a couple prototypes and that’s it. So lot’s of stuff we don’t know for 100% sure yet- as with many new product launches. When we placed an order for some of these yesterday afternoon we were told Q2 (summer) and MAP was going to be $899. I wrote that on the page of the catalog and put a pic of it on our IG page for some that were asking there. Are there going to be trade offs versus buying say a D2? Well of course guys, you’re not paying $1900. Initial thoughts are the wire to the pressure pad seemed a little thinner than Steiner’s offerings- again may be a prototype but maybe not as far as that goes. Does have a fire button on the unit for those that don’t want to use a remote switch. It’s more compact than a D2, doesn’t have that lunchbox feel that the D2 does. The closest Steiner offering in price now would be the A3 at several hundred higher, with the D2 a little higher than that. The ACAL is clearly still not near production and I have a feeling that will be Lucky to ship this year, given what I was told. I’ll try to post more pics, etc. when I get back from the show. Yeah, I got the impression from just the videos that the ACAL isn't necessarily in its final form yet even. I love everything I've heard about it so far though and at present it is looking to be my top contender. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 7:25:00 PM EDT
[#19]
 Holosun IRIS vs LS-321 First looks |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 8:36:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryFrom that video:  I don't follow these people or use social media. So I don't know where to find the post that he mentions. It seems to be good news though. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 8:59:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ashiha: From that video: https://i.imgur.com/jbWHHJ3.png I don't follow these people or use social media. So I don't know where to find the post that he mentions. It seems to be good news though. I think hes talking about Brassfact's video that was linked 2 post above yours, the time stamp of 3:58 he mentions how he went back to the Holosun booth and brought his pvs-14 and a fresh new cr123 and swapped it with the one in the IRIS they had on display. He turned on the IRIS and it was "strong" enough to show up in the showroom floor with all the bright light around so he assume that means its possible that the unit could have been on low power when Nick was at that night shooting event. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 10:27:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Magsz18]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-40BiC5QNDwToo early to make any declarative statements about these units. Sounds like neither the ACAL or the IRIS are in their final production forms, we're somwhere between concept and pre-production at this point in time. I'm glad that this video points out that the Holosun Reps seemed to have zero clue about the IRIS's illuminator other than to say it was VCSEL, which I don't think the Reps even know what that means. Like the one thing everyone wanted to know what the power on the VCSEL and yeah, even the brochure for it seems to have been wrong...possibly? ZERO news on EOTech's OGL is sad. Like zero progress on the civilian front, none, zip, nadda. Kind of frustrating when companies will make announcements that a product will go into production and then are either unwilling or unable to release the product for over a year. If you want to "tease" a product show it as a "Concept". So, it just looks like it's very unlikely that EOTech is going to release the Civilian OGL this year. My spider senses are telling me that the IRIS and the ACAL probably will not be available until late this year or even early next year knowing how manufacturing goes, but we'll see. Thank God though for BrassFacts and Hop, they actually know what they're talking about and actually are going to show us what we want to see instead of the "here is another pistol or lever action gun." People lose sight of the fact that SHOT SHOW is not for us. Ultimately, its an industry trade show. The fact that it's been commercialized is cool in that we have more access to what goes on there beyond SMGLEE's pics. Beyond that, it's for making business deals. Eotech doesn't care about you. The OGL is not for you. You can't hate on Eotech for that either. There's money in government contracts. They're in business to make money. Maybe, eventually, we will get table scraps. I've lost interest in the OGL for now despite being able to obtain FP units. I'd rather give my money to companies like Zbolt and potentially Holosun as they pave the way towards more affordable, reasonably priced units. Keep hope guys. Someone WILL provide. It's only an issue of patience at this point. |
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AUS
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Posted: 1/26/2024 9:00:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By f402mech: Everything that guy just said is bullshit. LOL really what specifically is BS - c'mon lets spell it out. Lets get in to detail, can you do that or are you just another vapidly stupid person that will sell out his own countrymen for a toy you can't use. |
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AUS
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Posted: 1/26/2024 9:05:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: chosos]
[#24]
[please discontinue the personal attacks].
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 9:29:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: Its straightforward - B. E. Meyers pioneered the use of VCSEL based diodes in this type of product. They spent the R and D dollars and did the development work. They ensured that civilian specs were accepted by use of divergence limits for illuminators e.g. 67mW + 2 degrees min for MAWL C1+ and 150mW + 3 degrees min for the KIJI. They did all the hard work. What did Holosun do? I'm not off base at all. I have what used to be known as ethics. Keep in mind the all in production cost for the IRIS will likely be less than $50 and as an aside, the SOMO devices less than $25. I have no doubt after an astroturfing campaign the Holosun device will corner the civilian market. Citing ethics while BE Meyers is charging nearly 4K for their LAM is fairly ironic. |
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Posted: 1/26/2024 10:50:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KaerMorhenResident]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: People lose sight of the fact that SHOT SHOW is not for us. Ultimately, its an industry trade show. The fact that it's been commercialized is cool in that we have more access to what goes on there beyond SMGLEE's pics. Beyond that, it's for making business deals. Eotech doesn't care about you. The OGL is not for you. You can't hate on Eotech for that either. There's money in government contracts. They're in business to make money. Maybe, eventually, we will get table scraps. I've lost interest in the OGL for now despite being able to obtain FP units. I'd rather give my money to companies like Zbolt and potentially Holosun as they pave the way towards more affordable, reasonably priced units. Keep hope guys. Someone WILL provide. It's only an issue of patience at this point. Does EOTech really view it that way though, because if they do than why even bother to say they were going to do a civilian version? I think EOTech does want to become a player in the Night Vision civilian world, but for whatever reason they're have a hard time executing on it (production issues/capacity, FDA, or maybe just not enough of the right people working to make it happen?). OGL could be pretty cool, but if it's pushing $3K that's a problem and while the government contractors may not care they really should, because paying as much for a laser as your department or agency would pay for a PVS14 is full blown bonkers, in my admittedly lay person opinion. This attitude that departments and agencies can just have a devil may care attitude about what they spend is hopefully not a real thing, because I don't know a single government agency or LEO department that doesn't have some kind of budget issue or wishlist for stuff they need. I agree with you though, really like what I see from Z Bolt, they seem like good folks and while I acknowledge some of their electronic components might be obtained from overseas producers (that's probably impossible now to get around) I do like that at least some of the money I give them is going to patriotic Americans with families. I like the "idea" of the Holosun IRIS a lot, $800 for small light weight (from what I understand the final version will be metal housing) is really darn tempting, but I gotta say I'm skeptical as I've never owned a Holosun product before and fair or not have a pretty negative opinion when it comes to Chinese products. Again though, I wouldn't be surprised if nearly everything electronic these days has Chinese electronic components in it anyways so I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to the IRIS. Our position as civilians in this space though does seem to be improving and I'm trying to keep positive and optimistic without being overly hyped. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 11:44:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ashiha: People just want this to be real. It's almost too good to be true. So it makes sense that people will go from excited to being let down quickly. The IR market has been overpriced for far too long. Of course I want this to be real. I'm also not let down, but then again, I worked in production and made and packaged units that I handed to my production supervisor to take to our industry trade show and I know that from personal experience being the guy who made the thing that ends up in all the YouTube videos that what gets debuted at the trade show often enough isn't 100% exactly what's going to be coming off the production floor. Look, Holosun knows we want a VCSEL MFAL that isn't two to five thousand dollars. They know the big complaint everyone has about the LE and LS series of MFAL's is the weak illumination. I'm pretty confident that they're not going to bother with making a new unit, and do the marketing and hype for VCSEL if it is exactly just a repackage of the same shit. Some companies do that, but it doesn't jibe with Holosun's track record. I'm confident they'll come to market with a potent illuminator. If they don't, there's the Z-Bolt. Either way, I will be into a VCSEL MFAL sometime hopefully this summer for a hell of a lot less than it would have cost me a year prior. There's absolutely nothing for me to feel let down about. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 12:35:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Does EOTech really view it that way though, because if they do than why even bother to say they were going to do a civilian version? I think EOTech does want to become a player in the Night Vision civilian world, but for whatever reason they're have a hard time executing on it (production issues/capacity, FDA, or maybe just not enough of the right people working to make it happen?). OGL could be pretty cool, but if it's pushing $3K that's a problem and while the government contractors may not care they really should, because paying as much for a laser as your department or agency would pay for a PVS14 is full blown bonkers, in my admittedly lay person opinion. This attitude that departments and agencies can just have a devil may care attitude about what they spend is hopefully not a real thing, because I don't know a single government agency or LEO department that doesn't have some kind of budget issue or wishlist for stuff they need. The "it's government contracts!" excuse is pretty weak anyways when it comes to pricing. Government contract is for an FP unit that you're advertising on the GSA schedule, the price of your civ-power unit is not terribly relevant at that point. I can't explain why Eotech is struggling so badly with the OGL. FDA approval is possibly part of it, but I'm skeptical it's all of it. I guess the first time is just harder. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 3:26:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sheepdog697]
[#29]
I would argue that the civilian goggles they released (Eotech) are massively overpriced for what they are as well.
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Posted: 1/26/2024 3:58:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Please keep this to a tech discussion so we aren't forced to close the thread and please - no more personal attacks.
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Posted: 1/26/2024 10:27:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: f402mech]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: LOL really what specifically is BS - c'mon lets spell it out. Lets get in to detail, can you do that or are you just another vapidly stupid person that will sell out his own countrymen for a toy you can't use. Never seen My Cousin Vinny? That's a shame. Back on track. Interested to see where this goes since Holosun actually has a track record of listening to its customers. |
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Posted: 1/26/2024 10:34:40 PM EDT
[#32]
If I had a $50 item I could sell tens of thousands to the government for $3k a unit, I would never even consider reworking my very profitable recipe in order to dip way down into the civ market who are all clamoring for a $1k device that performs just about as good as the model that I am currently selling to the military. The minute you placate the civilian sector, you just destroyed your bread and butter Gov contract model.
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Posted: 1/27/2024 10:38:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mickdonaldson]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Advance: If I had a $50 item I could sell tens of thousands to the government for $3k a unit, I would never even consider reworking my very profitable recipe in order to dip way down into the civ market who are all clamoring for a $1k device that performs just about as good as the model that I am currently selling to the military. The minute you placate the civilian sector, you just destroyed your bread and butter Gov contract model. Much truth. I worked for a company that sold to .gov, and now I sell to them - so they can sell my stuff to .gov. I laugh so hard when the "cry poor" people try to tell you "we aren't making that much money"...LOL. The profit margin with .gov is insane. But it is what it is, and you either pay the .gov vig, or not. That's capitalism, and its awesome. On the flip side, I wouldn't bash people looking for a foreign bargain. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 12:38:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Just got in from Shot, here are some pics of the Iris, along with the catalog page. I put some of these on our IG page a few days ago. I had just placed an order and confirmed the MAP with a rep and wrote it down, asked him again and he verified it. Don't know about any of the he said/she said on the pricing, just passing along what I heard for you guys. Given the wholesale cost... there ain't a helluva lot of margin so I probably wouldn't wish for anything a lot less on final pricing.
    Was told "Q2" which means summer at the earliest. Couple quick observations- definitely doesn't have the "heft" of a D2, a good bit lighter. If you like that "it feels like a tank" feeling, you may have to get used to it. Doesn't have the huge lunchbox feel that the D2 does. I think this will fit most applications without have to buy an Empire state building riser for your day optic.. If you look close at the wire, it appears to be kinda thin and my first thought was "awww crap." But I examined it more and it seems a little lighter but durable. To be honest I have little experience with Holosun lasers, but we have a TON of students bring them to NV classes including some local boys where a whole crew of them runs them. We've seen MAWLs fail in class (crazy cold temps), but I've never seen one of the Holosuns fail, nor can remember hearing any student complain about them. Just some initial thoughts. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 1:04:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Just got in from Shot, here are some pics of the Iris, along with the catalog page. I put some of these on our IG page a few days ago. I had just placed an order and confirmed the MAP with a rep and wrote it down, asked him again and he verified it. Don't know about any of the he said/she said on the pricing, just passing along what I heard for you guys. Given the wholesale cost... there ain't a helluva lot of margin so I probably wouldn't wish for anything a lot less on final pricing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3899-3109111.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3843-3109112.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3844-3109113.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3845_1_-3109114.jpg Was told "Q2" which means summer at the earliest. Couple quick observations- definitely doesn't have the "heft" of a D2, a good bit lighter. If you like that "it feels like a tank" feeling, you may have to get used to it. Doesn't have the huge lunchbox feel that the D2 does. I think this will fit most applications without have to buy an Empire state building riser for your day optic.. If you look close at the wire, it appears to be kinda thin and my first thought was "awww crap." But I examined it more and it seems a little lighter but durable. To be honest I have little experience with Holosun lasers, but we have a TON of students bring them to NV classes including some local boys where a whole crew of them runs them. We've seen MAWLs fail in class (crazy cold temps), but I've never seen one of the Holosuns fail, nor can remember hearing any student complain about them. Just some initial thoughts. Out of semi-random curiosity, see any Raid X or Xe's? How do they do? |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 3:52:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Just got in from Shot, here are some pics of the Iris, along with the catalog page. I put some of these on our IG page a few days ago. I had just placed an order and confirmed the MAP with a rep and wrote it down, asked him again and he verified it. Don't know about any of the he said/she said on the pricing, just passing along what I heard for you guys. Given the wholesale cost... there ain't a helluva lot of margin so I probably wouldn't wish for anything a lot less on final pricing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3899-3109111.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3843-3109112.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3844-3109113.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92237/IMG_3845_1_-3109114.jpg Was told "Q2" which means summer at the earliest. Couple quick observations- definitely doesn't have the "heft" of a D2, a good bit lighter. If you like that "it feels like a tank" feeling, you may have to get used to it. Doesn't have the huge lunchbox feel that the D2 does. I think this will fit most applications without have to buy an Empire state building riser for your day optic.. If you look close at the wire, it appears to be kinda thin and my first thought was "awww crap." But I examined it more and it seems a little lighter but durable. To be honest I have little experience with Holosun lasers, but we have a TON of students bring them to NV classes including some local boys where a whole crew of them runs them. We've seen MAWLs fail in class (crazy cold temps), but I've never seen one of the Holosuns fail, nor can remember hearing any student complain about them. Just some initial thoughts. It would be like comparing an A3 to a D2. "Lighter weight, doesn't have the heft or lunchbox feeling, costs a lot less." Yeah sure, but an A3 performs like...an A3. So anyone looking for D2 performance isn't going to be very interested in how much lighter the A3 is. Or in this case, the holosun - if the performance isn't there. If someone wanted a compact, lightweight anemic IR illuminator/designator, there are plenty of those on the market without spending $900. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 3:55:17 PM EDT
[#37]
I mean even at $1000-1200 if it lives up to the hype then it will still be a good deal. I predict these will be out of stock at the same rate as micro daggers.
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Posted: 1/27/2024 5:37:27 PM EDT
[#38]
 Holosun Interview at SHOT Show 2024: Affordable VCSEL Laser, Hybrid Thermal Optics, and MORE |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 6:40:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Daggertt: If someone wanted a compact, lightweight anemic IR illuminator/designator, there are plenty of those on the market without spending $900. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 7:19:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 135Patriots: If It performs like an A3, I2, or whatever the current Holosun LAMs are called, I'll be truly baffled. Why go through the trouble of making an entirely new unit if the performance and price aren't meaningfully different than what you already make (and from the sound of it, sell plenty of). Besides the questionable performance (waiting to see more news on that), the illuminator adjustment slider looks like something innovative and easier to use over a knob or bezel where you would need to entirely undo your support hand grip. |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 12:38:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 135Patriots: If It performs like an A3, I2, or whatever the current Holosun LAMs are called, I'll be truly baffled. Why go through the trouble of making an entirely new unit if the performance and price aren't meaningfully different than what you already make (and from the sound of it, sell plenty of). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 135Patriots: Originally Posted By Daggertt: If someone wanted a compact, lightweight anemic IR illuminator/designator, there are plenty of those on the market without spending $900. It's just that the videos that we have seen so far don't seem very encouraging. The video that looks like what we all are hoping to see ended up being a full power (restricted?) unit. The other video next to the mawl makes it look like the civ unit performs like everything else currently on the market. And the shot show vids that I've seen so far don't show the illuminator. If it ends up being awesome then I'll be pleasantly surprised. |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 9:49:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Somebody with an IG account, see if BrassFacts will reconfirm that a new battery made it look good.
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Posted: 1/28/2024 10:07:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Advance]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: Somebody with an IG account, see if BrassFacts will reconfirm that a new battery made it look good. @mickdonaldson TheNovaGroup is a YT channel run by BF and Hop. BF goes into detail on the IRIS at the 1:35 mark. At 3:33 BF talks about Nick Chen's experience and then goes on to say that he (BF) brought a PVS-14 and a new battery to the Holosun booth and did a little bit of testing. SHOT Show NEW Laser Aiming Modules |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 10:35:40 AM EDT
[#44]
@Lowdown3
Any new helmet mount thermal monoculars at the show? |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 11:55:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Loonytik: @Lowdown3 Any new helmet mount thermal monoculars at the show? The RH25 seems to remain the kill of the hill in that regard. |
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Posted: 1/29/2024 9:33:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Advance: @mickdonaldson TheNovaGroup is a YT channel run by BF and Hop. BF goes into detail on the IRIS at the 1:35 mark. At 3:33 BF talks about Nick Chen's experience and then goes on to say that he (BF) brought a PVS-14 and a new battery to the Holosun booth and did a little bit of testing. Thanks |
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Posted: 1/29/2024 2:12:31 PM EDT
[#47]
It comes down to the illuminator and we'll just need more videos or photos of the illuminator beam at night before we can really say one way or another.
The NovaGroup vid that the BrassFacts guy did seemed encouraging given that it was done in the lighted conference room at SHOT and not in the dark. Be interesting to see if the IRIS beats the ACAL to market, but right now I'm a bit more optimistic about the ACAL than I am about the IRIS given that one poor night vision video someone took with a potato. |
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Posted: 1/29/2024 2:40:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Be interesting to see if the IRIS beats the ACAL to market, but right now I'm a bit more optimistic about the ACAL than I am about the IRIS given that one poor night vision video someone took with a potato. Based on some comments I heard, the ACAL is behind the IRIS in terms of going to market. There's IRIS prototype units in the wild, I haven't heard anything about the ACAL in that respect. |
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Posted: 1/29/2024 5:09:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By erwos: Based on some comments I heard, the ACAL is behind the IRIS in terms of going to market. There's IRIS prototype units in the wild, I haven't heard anything about the ACAL in that respect. well, if they need more testers, sign me up. |
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Posted: 1/30/2024 10:22:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mickdonaldson]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: It comes down to the illuminator and we'll just need more videos or photos of the illuminator beam at night before we can really say one way or another. The NovaGroup vid that the BrassFacts guy did seemed encouraging given that it was done in the lighted conference room at SHOT and not in the dark. Be interesting to see if the IRIS beats the ACAL to market, but right now I'm a bit more optimistic about the ACAL than I am about the IRIS given that one poor night vision video someone took with a potato. IIRC, Holosun's parent company started out in the LASER Diode business in the late 90's / Early 2K - they definitely know diodes. I like Nick, but I've seen him make mistakes before, in regards to Aurora's. Not that this was a mistake, he just filmed what he was given. In some other comments on other posts on his IG, he says he didn't install any fresh batteries, and he also saw the HS employees doing it later. Who knows - we won't be able to buy one before they all get released to the YT shills on "The NDA Expires Day" - so imma just wait and watch. |
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