WTF  Maybe I was born a fool.  I recognize this country is different then the one I grew up in, but

BEWARE OF THE COOK COUNTY SHERIFF

I had a rifle on armslist that I was looking to dump, nothing important.  When I received a email from a buyer telling me they wanted to purchase the rifle.  We exchanged phone numbers.  I received a text last friday asking me to meet the buyer.  I was working, but wasn't busy.  

They wanted to meet in Oak Park, I said NO WAY.

They recommended a different spot.  I agreed, the Portillos on Roosevelt and DesPlanes.  There is a gun range a couple of blocks from there that I thought would be a better place but, it was Friday and I was more afraid of rush hour then I was of the location.

Long story short, it smelled and looked wrong. the car was a pick up with black windows.  I'm thinking gangbanger.  When I pull up two guys get out of the car, but they are both older white guys.  They didn't match the car.  They look over the rifle, but when it comes time to sign the paper work, the guy doesn't have a FOID card.  He tells me he has a domestic arrest.  

I tell him I can't sell him the rifle, he offers more money, I reject his offer.  He keeps try.  I keep saying NO.

Next thing I know, there are 50 cops surrounding me, they are searching my car, and handcuffing me and toss me in the back of a car.  

Within 15 minutes I'm in the Maywood sheriff station.  They are asking where I live, how many guns do I own, how many I've sold.  The experience was rough and distressing.  I didn't want to answer any questions.  
All I can think is that I'm in handcuffs for some reason, did I break a law I wasn't aware of.  If I answer a question wrong I end up in a jump suit.

Turns out, I didn't break any laws.  They want me to give them information that I didn't have.  I almost had a heart attack.  I walked out an hour later with my rifle.

What the bloody hell was that.  Is this how we threat citizens when political fortunes are on the line.  It took me a week before I had the nerve to post on this site.  I use be mad at people who refused to sell to cook county residents.  Now I understand, its not worth it.

How native was I, be-careful.  FTF is hard enough without having to worry about bogus stings.

whats the email and the phone number

24 hour wait for rifles if there is a sale.  In theory if he had a FOID you could be screwed if you didn't wait 24 hours for a sale?

Was this an unlawful arrest?

Why didn't they buy the rifle?  

I don't practice civil rights law, criminal law, and in fact I don't even do any litigation.

That said, if your story is true then you need to find a civil rights lawyer and sue the shit out of them.

They can't just handcuff you and take you downtown and work you over for an hour unless

they have probable cause.  If your story is true it sounds like they had no evidence of a crime,

and you were in fact taking great pains to follow the law.  It also sounds like an attempt

at entrapment.


This is also the reason I don't sell guns FTF in IL.  If you need to sell a gun you can find a gun store

for a consignment sale.

I hadn't consider a lawsuit.  I am surprised that they conducted themselves that way.  I just thought everyone should know before one of us accidentally ends up on the news and then gets nailed to a cross for the cameras.

I also like how they searched my car for no reason, and took me in without informing of the issues or reading me my rights before asking questions. I don't know if they have too, but I thought that was the way things were suppose to go.

Secondly they had about 50 sheriffs, if they wanted the rifle off the streets, they could have purchased the rifle legally and spent less money on man power and gas, then this poorly considered approach.

If you have not considered a Law Suit or do not sue , It makes me wonder about you  Just Saying

Have you considered the EE?

Thinking about this a little more - did you remove the gun from the case in the Portillo's parking lot?

If so you may have actually violated either the UUW statute or the FOID act by having the rifle

uncased in a location that the law requires it to be cased.

I feel much safer now.  It's clear the dozens of officers had nothing else productive to do.

The City of Chicago has the highest violent crime rating in the nation, and a large portion of that problem is illegal guns in criminals' hands.

You my friend were targeted by a sting operation.  Im sure they were pissed when you checked out as legit.  You shoulda called your lawyer, or asked for one.

I'm saddened that you had to go through that, but the upside is that those cops have a huge hill to climb and at least they're doing something.  Unfortunately, Chicago's violent crime record is a big issue on both sides of the gun argument.

Wow that is quite the experience. They obviously had a task force setup to perform stings where they were looking for people who would violate gun laws regarding private sales. I can't believe how they acted, especially after you denied the sale! This "raping of your rights" also happens to coincide with (1) the "gun trafficking" bill Durbin has co-sponsored in the US Senate and  (2) the shitstorm going on right now down in the IL capital regarding CCW and that ugly amendment-laden bill that needs to FOAD. Someone, somewhere is putting pressure on Cook County LE so they can have some sort of statistics to back their gun control. OP, they wanted YOU to be a statistic that would give strength to their side. I can see the Sun-Times headline now, "236 Firearms Bound For Chicago Gangs Are Head Off" or some crap like that.  

OP, was it an AR15 that you were selling? If it was, you should've known better than to meet where you did. If that is the case, you partially brought the sting on yourself. NEVER, EVER perform a private sale within Cook unless you are 100% sure of who you're dealing with and also the firearm in question won't fall under the BS unenforced Cook AWB. And if it was an AR that you were trying to sell, fear of a lawsuit is probably why you got your rifle back. Does the city have the money to defend a potential heavy duty confiscation case? Hell no.

Cook residents are fine. Just stay out of Cook. Lesson learned.

Care if I copy and paste this over on the IllinoisCarry forum?? To warn others?


GB

I used to live in Cook and work in Chicago.  I went to that very Portillos many a time.

Sir ... with all due respect, you should be speaking to a lawyer about this.  That law enforcement run stings to encourage folks to break the law is one thing (sadly, that is probably lawful), but cuffing and detaining you for an hour when they have no evidence that you've committed a crime is another.  It would probably be a long process, and a PITA, but this case has merit enough to slap the county sheriff's office with civil rights violations, and could wind up winning you some substantial money.  They wanted to make you a pawn in their political game.  Nice being used like that, isn't it?

Not that this is about money for you ... the most important thing is fighting against corrupt and over-reaching government.  Those battles need to be fought, or they will continue and intensify their abuse.

I took the liberty of posting this up to Armslist -

Just read this on armslist, Would like to know if I can repost this on some facebook trading forums? I wont repost with out op's permission though

Just post the link back to here.  You don't have to be registered to read here.

I agree that this is bullshit, however this is why I will only sell firearms to unknown people through an FFL for the following reasons.  It protects you. A person can have commited a crime that disqualifies them from being able to purchase/possess firearms and still have a seemingly valid FOID.  Second doing deals in parking lots is seedy and dangerous.  What if it had been a group of thugs in the truck and they robbed and/or killed you and took off with the guns, and as a news story it does nothing to promote responsible firearm ownership.  Finally, having unknown people come to your home puts you, your family, and your possessions at unnecessary risk.  Gun stores are a nice neutral place to meet, their are other people around and the employees are armed, and you CYA from a liability suit with a 4473.  To me it is cheap insurance for $25-50.00 when dealing with unknowns.

Good Idea, and done

This incident occurred because of the current push to change the laws regarding transfers,

They want everything (everything) to go through a 4473. It will make us safer, don't you know.

Follow the agenda.

Hope you guys don't mind I posted a link to here yesterday.

why not go to the popo  office parking lot?
less travel time for them

Which is absolutely asinine, because the 4473 goes nowhere except into a filing cabinet at the FFL's place of business.  When the FFL holder decides to stop dealing, then the license and all 4473s for the last 20 years goes to the ATF.  

The NICS check done through the IL State Police doesn't contain the gun brand/model/SN at all.  All it does is check whether or not that person is able to buy a gun, and allows them to do so through that dealer for 30 days.  The only time it has to be reported to the ATF is if you buy 2 or more handguns (not rifles, not shotguns) within 5 days.

I was just at the store today and saw the sun-times headline was something like police targeting gun trafficking

I want to say thanks for all the support.  I only wish I had posted earlier. Please feel free to repost as often as you like.  I do enjoy this forum, the people I've met here have always been top notch.  Thanks

You need to call FOX NEWS and relay the story. Also, get in touch with the NRA publications same thing. We aren't a communist state yet.

You committed no crime and you were illegally detained and arrested.

S\cares the hell out of you when the cops are criminals.....................

OP you need to sue the hell out of them and bring this bullshit to light. Get a hold of the ISRA and NRA and I am sure they can get you going.

I'd be calling the ACLU too.  They may not care much about the gun stuff, but it's still an illegal search and detainment.

Sure bring unknowns into your home, do deals in parking lots, it is a smarter and safer move. I am NOT saying that it should be mandated, but it is a wise choice.

Just to play devils advocate (I may not agree with the laws, but they are the law we must live by until we get them changed)

To the Original Poster, I am very glad you made it home safely, with your property.  It could have been worse.

My best friends Grandfather lost his freedom for several years and his rights (convicted felon) in a Chicago gun sting years ago (Thanks Daley).
He really did nothing wrong.  An ex-Marine, RR Cop and stand up american got rail roaded and sent off to jail.
My friend has a nice collection of guns that he should not have yet.  I helped him move them into his house, the only time in my life that a friend getting guns wasn't any where near as great as it should have been.  THEY SHOULD NOT BE HIS YET, AS LONG AS GRANDPA IS ALIVE, but unfortunately they are now.
So this type of issue hits very close to home for me, I never want to see another family have to suffer through what my friends family did.
I just want everyone to understand this issue better so that we can protect ourselves.

If I am wrong about the legal aspects, I apologize, I am not a lawyer.  Please correct any false assumptions I have made below.
I am donning my Flame retardant suit, let the fun begin.
-------------------------------------

In Illinois to transport a firearm it must be cased and unloaded, correct?

Stopping at a restaurants parking does not grant you permission to carry a firearm (without owners approval), so you must abide by the IL transport laws to remain legal, correct?

So if you stop in a parking lot (you do not own/control or have permission to carry a firearm at) and take a firearm out of the case, you have just broken IL law, correct?

If the 3 statements above are true, and I unfortunately believe they are (I am not a lawyer, YMMV), then the cops would have had proof of a crime and probable cause to take a person down to the station.  They could have even charged with unlawful use of a weapon.

Therefore if the above is true, it would be really hard to sue the police for misconduct.


---- legal stuff-
I believe the relevant legal issues are here.
As far as I know, Unlawful use of weapons statue still exist until June 9, at least.  Therefore the following is relevant

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K24-1

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
   Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.

  (4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed
   
on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
           (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
           (ii) are not immediately accessible; or
           (iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,
       
firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;

OP - what's the police report number?  I wanna read the case file. Just so I don't have to call BS. Cause I'm ready to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after the courts ruling on the CCW ban in Illinois, almost all of Illinois' previous UUW laws are up in the air as far as constitutionality. Of course, that remains to be seen/proven by someone with enough money to fight to good fight...

With the 180 day stay they are still on the books which makes them enforceable.  Meaning you can still get arrested for trying to carry your handgun or openly transport a rifle.
If not we would all be carrying already, right?
I know I sure would be.
And also I think that the ruling only applies to carrying of a handgun outside of the home.  That would still leave long guns subject to regulation.
Even our carry bill HB997 only address's handguns, there will be no change in long gun regulations that I know of.

So for my scenario it would still be a legit arrest.  May be able to be fought and won in court, but I wouldn't want to try it.

I'll make a broader comment on all of this. You describe the stress you were under, the disbelief of the situation, and the desire to leave the situation. This is an interrogation tactic. The whole idea is to get information from you, because the job of the police is to gather evidence for the prosecution. They want it to be uncomfortable, and they are happy to take advantage of your desire to leave. They like to ask questions that appear reasonably likely to cause your release if they are answered immediately--this save them the trouble of contending with a lawyer you retain, who will advise you against making statements that could incriminate you.

The bottom line is that if you find yourself at a jail for any reason (particularly one involving a gun), the only words out of your mouth should be "I will not discuss this until I have a lawyer present". You need to repeat that phrase repeatedly like a parrot, because they probably won't stop trying to ask you questions for awhile, and even if you assert your rights, that's out the window if you change your mind by talking. If they have grounds for a charge, they will charge you and put you in for the night (or the weekend). If they don't, they can't keep you there.

The bottom line is that you can't lie, but you don't have to tell them how to prosecute you either.

This is starting to seem like a "Look! I have a bellybutton" type post....

I think you owe the CCSD a apology over messing up their sting operation.

I wished you'd called a lawyer. Don't know that you have a case but when pushed, in this instance you should've pushed back.

I won't do a face to face or sell online or any number of scenarios without having gone through an ffl. There was one exception I made with an htf member who was carrying a valid Missouri CCW.

Looking back, I won't make another exception again. Buyer was/is an upstanding citizen, family man, NRA member, NRA instructor and htf member. That said, involving an ffl takes liabilities of transaction off me.

dc.

Todd Vandermyde, the NRA lobbyist fpr Illinois and the lead for the concealed carry push in Illinois would like to talk to the OP.

StainlessSteel, please send me a PM and I will get you together with him.

If you don't stand up to this, it will continue in Illinois and they will be emboldened and it will get a lot worse for all of us.

Hello Everyone,

Thanks again for the support. I sent an email about 10 minutes ago to Todd.

Some of you will not believe this story, that I understand. I told my experience because I wanted to warn others, nothing else.

When I refuse to complete the sale, they swarmed me and my auto in an attempt to arrest me for something else. I get the impression they were looking for a concealed hand gun. One sheriff deputy asked me if I had drugs. I had neither.

I did not receive a report number, I asked for business cards but received none. They told me that they were getting new phones and so they didn't have cards. I did receive a piece a paper with a phone number scribbled on it, so that I could report suspicious people on armslist.

Im glad I didn't do the sale from a familiar location, they might have kicked in doors and shot my girlfriends dogs or something more tragic. I don't know what lies in the hearts of civil servants with political ambition.

I didn't post more detail because I was sure it was a violation of the Patriot Act.

I had a similar experience in Ashland, Ohio. That year was a big year in Ashland. An NRA convention was held that year and Ohio was due to vote on CCW passage, which passed.

To make a really long story short I was charged for having a concealed weapon in my vehicle. Weapon was a hunting knife of legal blade length in plain sight. I was arrested, rights read, hand cuffed but allowed to post bail after my vehicle was searched for drugs and weapons. Nothing found.

An active NRA member in Ashland, Ohio offered to take my case free of charge. I of course paid his fee of $250.00 and four court appearances later a judge dismissed case because state didn't have a case.

I would suggest you follow NRA-ILA suggestions to the letter. In my case Ohio was desperately trying to manufacture case history against the right to carry. As crooked as the Illinois establishment is I'm positive all the stops are being pulled. Illinois bureaucrats are desperate beyond anything Ohio would have done.

Fight the good fight

dc.

If that's his address on the liveleak page that showed up in GD.   Then I would tend to believe him.   The thread is titled the same as here  in GD.

 

OP - Please follow through with Todd and heed whatever direction and advice he can offer.  



You are not alone or unique.  This happens more often than you might think in NE Illinois.  



Unknowingly and unwillingly, you may have just become our Crispus Attucks.

Hey, we found out who was the police officer that started the sting on you StainlessSteel.

As soon as he got through the first paragraph.

He goes full retard with the third.

Easy fix, disassemble the rifle.  Keep the firing pin or BCG or bolt separate until the transaction is complete.

The filthy pigs who rousted you deserve mujch worse, but sue the bastards.

Of course they aren't going to provide you with any evidence that they were there. You need to go back to that Portillo's and see if they have cameras on the parking lot. If so, you get a copy of that tape and take it, with your story, to Fox News.

The next time a policeman gets in your way, you need to politely ask him 3 questions:

"Am I under arrest?" If they answer yes, ask for what and to see the warrant. If they answer no:
"Am I being detained?" If they answer yes, ask for what reason. If they answer no:
"Then I am free to go, correct?" If they answer no, ask again whether you are under arrest or being detained. They cannot arrest or detain you without a warrant or probable cause, resp.

If they refuse to answer your questions, request that the officer call for a supervisor. If they refuse that request, calmly inform the nearest civilian that you are being illegally detained and ask them to call the police.

aren't police civilians?

please.

 

You should do more consulting legal counsel and less posting on the internet about it.

Lawsuit in federal court.  Stick it to them.  They shouldn't be allowed to treat people like this. If you do nothing about it, it's just going to happen to someone else.

Sue the bastards, this is the knd of shit that happens in third world countries. Fuck Shitcago