User Panel
Posted: 10/25/2023 12:10:44 PM EDT
I'm mid 50's, did Matsubayshi-Ryu Okinawan Karate for about 15 years in my 20's and 30's.
I've always wanted to do Wing Chun, even made myself a dummy 20 years ago but never got serious about it. We now live in a very rural area and the closest school is about 200 miles away, I already drive 500 miles a week for work so I'm not gonna drive to go to a school. With YouTube and online resources is it possible to get proficient in a martial art for those of us that don't live in a city? |
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Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave on that August day All the powers that be, and the course of history, Would be changed forevermore... |
Yes, it's possible.
What's not possible is being good at fighting or self-defense on your own. |
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Originally Posted By Wolfpack: I'm mid 50's, did Matsubayshi-Ryu Okinawan Karate for about 15 years in my 20's and 30's. I've always wanted to do Wing Chun, even made myself a dummy 20 years ago but never got serious about it. We now live in a very rural area and the closest school is about 200 miles away, I already drive 500 miles a week for work so I'm not gonna drive to go to a school. With YouTube and online resources is it possible to get proficient in a martial art for those of us that don't live in a city? View Quote As someone who's actually trained in Wing Chun, it's one of the arts that is VERY difficult to learn without both proper instruction, and other people to train with. Had a buddy who asked about it (as well as Muk Jeong/wooden dummy training/practice). The issue with WC in particular, is that beginners can't get the 'feel/sensitivity' without an experienced instructor. It's something that no amount of books or videos can convey. Without learning and developing that sensitivity, no amount of wooden dummy training will help, and in fact, can be counterproductive, as you drill the wrong things into muscle memory. Go to a Beginners Wing Chun class and try Chi Sao with the instructor, and you'll quickly understand what I'm trying to describe. Just about EVERY single beginner (especially males) will tend to use too much force, at the wrong time/in the wrong way, which, as you'll learn, with a good instructor (or even experienced/skilled student), will leave you wide open. *** It's actually kind of funny, watching newbies do Chi Sao drills, which literally translates to "Sticky Hands", when the partner stops a movement, and the newbie who hasn't learned to focus on feel/sensitivity continues moving, and their hands lose contact, and the instructor/partner shows them how they just left themselves wide open because they were focusing on executing the movement vs feeling what the partner/opponent is doing. It's developing that touch sensitivity to what the opponent/training partner is doing, that's the key with WC, and as mentioned, you can't learn it without feeling it. Once you've learned enough to understand and know wgat to train, THEN you can use the wooden dummy drills, but without learning that first, you'll likely be using the wooden dummy incorrectly (as mentioned, using too much force, or applying it incorrectly) AND drilling those mistakes into muscle memory, which will make corrections/relearning things even more difficult. *** Yeah, yeah. The Joe Rogan fanbois are probably going to jump in with the, "Joe Rogan said WC is BS!". I trained in and competed in Muay Thai, Sanshou and bareknuckle Goju-Ryu tournaments. I can tell you that the sensitivity and redirects learned in WC, absolutely CAN be used in fights/competition. When you get to the higher levels of WC training, you also use elbows. The way WC trains Chi Sao and uses elbows, came in handy when I fought MT in Thailand with elbow strikes allowed (not all MT matches allow elbow strikes). MT does not really have anything quite like WC Chi Sao, trapping and opening up another person's defenses for elbows. Some basics, but not as advanced. WC allowed me to KO my opponent with an elbow. *** similarly, you can watch all the videos you want about BJJ, but without actually training those techniques with experienced partners, AND rolling with different opponents, you can't learn to feel the balance, attacks and counters on your own, without prior experience. |
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Originally Posted By bluemax_1: As someone who's actually trained in Wing Chun, it's one of the arts that is VERY difficult to learn without both proper instruction, and other people to train with. Had a buddy who asked about it (as well as Muk Jeong/wooden dummy training/practice). The issue with WC in particular, is that beginners can't get the 'feel/sensitivity' without an experienced instructor. It's something that no amount of books or videos can convey. Without learning and developing that sensitivity, no amount of wooden dummy training will help, and in fact, can be counterproductive, as you drill the wrong things into muscle memory. Go to a Beginners Wing Chun class and try Chi Sao with the instructor, and you'll quickly understand what I'm trying to describe. Just about EVERY single beginner (especially males) will tend to use too much force, at the wrong time/in the wrong way, which, as you'll learn, with a good instructor (or even experienced/skilled student), will leave you wide open. *** It's actually kind of funny, watching newbies do Chi Sao drills, which literally translates to "Sticky Hands", when the partner stops a movement, and the newbie who hasn't learned to focus on feel/sensitivity continues moving, and their hands lose contact, and the instructor/partner shows them how they just left themselves wide open because they were focusing on executing the movement vs feeling what the partner/opponent is doing. It's developing that touch sensitivity to what the opponent/training partner is doing, that's the key with WC, and as mentioned, you can't learn it without feeling it. Once you've learned enough to understand and know wgat to train, THEN you can use the wooden dummy drills, but without learning that first, you'll likely be using the wooden dummy incorrectly (as mentioned, using too much force, or applying it incorrectly) AND drilling those mistakes into muscle memory, which will make corrections/relearning things even more difficult. *** Yeah, yeah. The Joe Rogan fanbois are probably going to jump in with the, "Joe Rogan said WC is BS!". I trained in and competed in Muay Thai, Sanshou and bareknuckle Goju-Ryu tournaments. I can tell you that the sensitivity and redirects learned in WC, absolutely CAN be used in fights/competition. When you get to the higher levels of WC training, you also use elbows. The way WC trains Chi Sao and uses elbows, came in handy when I fought MT in Thailand with elbow strikes allowed (not all MT matches allow elbow strikes). MT does not really have anything quite like WC Chi Sao, trapping and opening up another person's defenses for elbows. Some basics, but not as advanced. WC allowed me to KO my opponent with an elbow. *** similarly, you can watch all the videos you want about BJJ, but without actually training those techniques with experienced partners, AND rolling with different opponents, you can't learn to feel the balance, attacks and counters on your own, without prior experience. View Quote Thank you for the honest and very detailed answer. I very much appreciate it. |
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Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave on that August day All the powers that be, and the course of history, Would be changed forevermore... |
I guess its possible.
I grew up 1st leaning Tae Kwon Do, then Chinese Kenpo which I much preferred. I just turned 50 myself and have a few things in my basement gym, but I miss having actual sparing partners that'll take it serious and train with. I feel like I can go though all the motions and build muscle memory on techniques, but its hard to work on timing and I don't know for sure how a strike or a block is actually going to work. Plus striking a person is much different than striking a bag. They move and hit back. There is only one school in town and its some style I never heard of and don't care for. The only other school is an hour north and really a grappling gym. Not knocking it, just not my thing. |
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LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: ""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply."" |
Originally Posted By smullen: I guess its possible. I grew up 1st leaning Tae Kwon Do, then Chinese Kenpo which I much preferred. I just turned 50 myself and have a few things in my basement gym, but I miss having actual sparing partners that'll take it serious and train with. I feel like I can go though all the motions and build muscle memory on techniques, but its hard to work on timing and I don't know for sure how a strike or a block is actually going to work. Plus striking a person is much different than striking a bag. They move and hit back. There is only one school in town and its some style I never heard of and don't care for. The only other school is an hour north and really a grappling gym. Not knocking it, just not my thing. View Quote I should have put in my original post, I'm not looking to street fight ever. Just looking for a way to move and exercise, learn a bit and make life out here a bit more interesting. |
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Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave on that August day All the powers that be, and the course of history, Would be changed forevermore... |
Originally Posted By smullen: I guess its possible. I grew up 1st leaning Tae Kwon Do, then Chinese Kenpo which I much preferred. I just turned 50 myself and have a few things in my basement gym, but I miss having actual sparing partners that'll take it serious and train with. I feel like I can go though all the motions and build muscle memory on techniques, but its hard to work on timing and I don't know for sure how a strike or a block is actually going to work. Plus striking a person is much different than striking a bag. They move and hit back. There is only one school in town and its some style I never heard of and don't care for. The only other school is an hour north and really a grappling gym. Not knocking it, just not my thing. View Quote Discovered this simple innovative idea/product when I saw a guy playing with it at the checkout line in Walmart (who does that? Thankful though, as that's how I found out about it). He had it attached to the back of his baseball cap (which he was wearing reversed). In a nutshell, it's a foam rubber ball, attached to an elastic bungee cord. It's actually quite effective for training your reflexes and eye-hand coordination. It's basically used like a boxing double ended bag, but better, IMO. If you have the hand speed and coordination, you can hit it like a boxing speed bag (i.e. continuously), but the best way to use it is to alternate combos, with bobbing and weaving to dodge the ball (that will always come at your face, as it's attached to the front of your head). When you bob/weave and the ball zips past your head/face, the elastic rebounds to bring it back in front. Takes a bit of practice to make the movement fluid (and avoid getting hit in the back of the head, but it doesn't really hurt), but with a little practice, you can literally train continuously, throwing everything from straight punches and jabs, to hooks and uppercuts (the different punches will obviously change how the ball moves). The 2 big advantages are that it's great for training the eye-hand coordination to target a small, moving object (that will be moving faster than the average head), as well as dodging things flying towards your face. Might be advisable to try it with eye pro first. Doesn't really hurt to get hit in the face/head. Might not be fun to get hit in the eye.
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Try Escrima. The strikes can be practiced on a wavemaster. Disarming techiques can be done with anybody not trained.
Sticky hands would be tough without a partner for sure. |
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Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
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Originally Posted By Wolfpack: I'm mid 50's, did Matsubayshi-Ryu Okinawan Karate for about 15 years in my 20's and 30's. I've always wanted to do Wing Chun, View Quote WHY? Why not Krav Maga, or some DVD instruction of the "deadliest moves in special forces", |
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Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave on that August day All the powers that be, and the course of history, Would be changed forevermore... |
The way my teacher says, ".... There's always Okuden".
Which means you can learn something from a textbook or borrowing your friends notes, but there's always something deeper you can learn from your teacher that just can't be captured on video or translated well into a book. For example, I can certainly study the official Kyudo manual, or I can spend an extra 30 minutes with my teacher and learn it how he was taught and what his teacher told him etc. |
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Now a real killer, when he picked up the ZF1, would have immediately asked about the little red button on the bottom of the gun.
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You can practice the movements and learn the names. But you'll just be performing choreographed movements. 0 practicality behind it. Certainly not something you'd want to rely on in any kind of self defense scenario. If a martial art doesn't involve actual sparring with another person. Who is actively evading your techniques and is also trying to strike/take down/submit you. Its quite literally a waste of time and money.
There is a reason why in the modern era, professional fighters pretty much exclusively come from boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, wrestling and BJJ back-grounds. And that's pretty much all they train to continue their career. If the other arts were really that effective. The black/belts and high level guys would all be in the UFC getting famous, adding prestige to their art and perhaps getting very wealthy in the process. You really have no idea if you have any skills at all until you use them. Being self taught is not really a good thing. I'd say find someone that teaches boxing. He can teach you the techniques then you can practice them on your own at home with bags. I'd still want to spar at least once a month though. |
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