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Posted: 7/24/2019 12:05:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WOAFP]
Happy International Tequila Day everyone!

In light of the "Holiday" I thought I would take this opportunity to teach Arfcom a little bit about Agave and all the amazing things that are made out of it.

So for most of you guys, when you start to think of tequila or agave, you probably have horrible memories of things like Jose Cuervo Gold and the horrible "coming to god" moments that come after drinking it. Well, it doesn't have to be such a terrible experience, and the class of spirits is far more in depth than you could ever imagine.

So lets start with the bigger family: Mezcal.

Mezcal, in this sense of the word, is any alcoholic spirit made out of agave (or in some categories sotol). I'll get back to this word later, but it means something different when used on bottles. Mezcal as a class originated when the Spanish colonist in Mexico realized the locals were making a rough beer out of crushed agave pinas (the soft sugary center of an agave), that had been previously roasted to focus the sugar, and allowing it to ferment. The spanish introduced the native people to the Filipino style clay stills that could be made locally by mexican ceramics workers. This spirit exploded in popularity with the locals but was regarded by the spanish as low quality spirit when compared to the brandies, sherries, and other spirits from the old world. The local people eventually started to standardize the practice and over centuries it became steeped in culture and local traditions. These traditions and small variations per area later became known by the classes I will discuss.

Let's start with the big dog; tequila. Tequila is in fact a mezcal. It is an alcoholic spirit made out of agave. The part that makes tequila different is that it is made from only one type of agave, the Blue Weber. On top of being legally required to be made out of blue weber, tequila can also only be made in the state of Jalisco and limited municipalities in the states of Guanajuato, Michoacán, Nayarit, and Tamaulipas. This is protected by a law, or NOM in mexico, that is recognized by over 40 countries. The other things that make tequila so much different is the break from the old tradition of roasting the agave pinas in a pit using mesquite wood. Instead tequila has shifted to large industrial ovens called autoclaves to roast their agave. Although some good brands do still use brick ovens to roast and steam (with the moisture inside the agave) the agave before fermenting.The roasted agave is then broken down in large shredders before being pressed to pull out all of the sugar and moisture. This extract is then added to spring or purified water and then fermented using either wild or cultivated yeast in large vats. This is then distilled in large pot or even column stills, and then water is added to typically bring it to 40% alcohol, then bottled. If the tequila is going to be aged, it is generally placed in a previously used oak barrel at the still proof, and then diluted after aging before bottling. Traditionally agave spirits were not aged, but instead drank Joven, or young.













Traditionally drank neat, out of a small ceramic bowl called a copita, tequila has transformed over the years into largely a cocktail drink or shooter. Unfortunately with the demand for low quality tequila for these uses we have seen an increase in additives such as caramel to color low quality tequilas like jose cuervo gold. The bests tequilas are going to clearly state 100% blue weber on the labeling.


If you would like to try a better quality tequila to see what they can actually be like try to find the Fortaleza blanco or still strength. These are amazing traditionally made tequilas.



And interesting thing often seen with tequila is a trend towards higher ratings for tequilas produced closer to traditional methods. Roasting the agave over days concentrates and caramelizes sugars in a way that cannot be achieved through chemical or quick cooking methods. Those flavors carry on all the way to the end product and makes up a large part of the flavors we all love and enjoy.

A thing to be aware of with tequila, is that production method drastically impacts flavor. Brick ovens slowly roast the agave over days. This caramelizes the sugars the same way as smoking a brisket. The flavor builds up over days, and everything breaks down to the point where the sugars are ready for fermentation. The next method, is the autoclave or pressure oven. These speed up this process. Some people use autoclaves under no pressure and just steam. This is still a multi-day roast. Others though, use it like an instapot and put multiple atmospheres of pressure to cook the agave in as little as 6 hours. The same way as some ribs coming out of a instapot are soft and tender but don't have as much flavor, is exactly what is happening here. The last method is a diffuser. These are MASSIVE machines, some 100's of yards long, that uses pressurized jets of water to cut the agave up without ever cooking it. Then, many using different acids to make the sugar available for fermentation. This leaves the end product having almost no flavor of the agave and harsh notes that many describe as "too sweet". This is because more sugar is being made available for distillation, but that sugar is concentrated and stripped away from the fatty lipids in the plant that carry the flavors we are used to.



Photo of a diffuser

Link Posted: 7/25/2019 10:39:27 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:

I would strongly recommend that fortaleza that I posted in the first post in that price range. If that isn't available siete laguas is another incredible one. I'm sure some of the other guys here can help you out if you're after aged versions. I personally don't like what aging (outside of glass aging) does to agave spirits. It really takes out a lot of the agave influence.
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They didn’t have either so I got some Herradura Anejo based off a recommendation from an employee. It’s pretty damn good for sipping IMO.
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 8:58:59 AM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By paadams:

They didn’t have either so I got some Herradura Anejo based off a recommendation from an employee. It’s pretty damn good for sipping IMO.
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The anejo's and extra anejos definitely get into that whiskey territory pretty quick, with just a gentle sweetness from the agave in the back end
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 2:07:47 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:

El Buho is a good standard espadin mezcal. They do cut the proof down using spring water as opposed to using the cuts, which will soften the flavor a little. Its perfect well suited for just sipping and enjoying, and will have a good enough flavor to hold up to being in a cocktail as well. Great gift from someone. For it's price there are only a few I would pick over it.
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Thanks for the information.  I've never had Mezcal before, so if I like it, I will bug you again to see where I should head next.
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 4:00:12 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By unsub073:

Thanks for the information.  I've never had Mezcal before, so if I like it, I will bug you again to see where I should head next.
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Give it a try and even give us a review and a photo if you don't mind. I'd love for us to have more reviews on here.
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 5:13:22 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:

Hornitos Black Label.
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I happen to be going to Total Wine right now.  I will take a look for that.
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 5:14:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WOAFP] [#6]
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 6:15:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 6:15:57 PM EDT
[#8]
What blanco do you stock for making margaritas? I’m thinking of picking up a handle.

Something that is not super expensive, makes a good margarita, and is enjoyable neat. Fortaleza is on my list but likely won’t use it as a mixer.
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 7:26:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wildearp] [#9]




ETA: The Hornitos is like a smoother Quervo Gold to my taste.  The pink gin was a huge mistake.
Link Posted: 7/26/2019 8:55:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By wildearp:


https://i.imgur.com/rdZpcLQ.jpg

ETA: The Hornitos is like a smoother Quervo Gold to my taste.  The pink gin was a huge mistake.
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Was there anything about pink gin that told you it wouldn't be?
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 2:22:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Who is enjoying some tasty agave today?
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 3:14:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for such an informative post! I've been wanting to start sampling liquors in the agave family. In my limited experience, the best I have had by far is Don Julio 1942. What kind of ranking/rating would you give it. And I will be stopping at Specs on my way home.
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 4:22:27 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By Kinzei:
Thanks for such an informative post! I've been wanting to start sampling liquors in the agave family. In my limited experience, the best I have had by far is Don Julio 1942. What kind of ranking/rating would you give it. And I will be stopping at Specs on my way home.
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I'm not the best qualified guy to rate the 1942 versus other extra anejo. I've had the 1942 and certainly enjoyed it, but definitely felt more like k was drinking a well aged rum or maybe even a young Armagnac. That's always been the hard part for me when they aged agave. It always seems to lose a lot of that "agave".
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 4:59:25 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:

I'm not the best qualified guy to rate the 1942 versus other extra anejo. I've had the 1942 and certainly enjoyed it, but definitely felt more like k was drinking a well aged rum or maybe even a young Armagnac. That's always been the hard part for me when they aged agave. It always seems to lose a lot of that "agave".
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Thanks! Appreciate the insight.
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 6:54:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 7:14:14 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Any opinions on a) Centenario and b) Azulejos (most notable for their "Picaso" bottles)?

Two that were recommended that were at least different than most of the others.
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I have never had the Picasso but would love to hear a review if you get them. I've almost bought them a dozen times just for the bottles
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 9:06:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 7/27/2019 9:35:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 7/29/2019 6:35:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 7/29/2019 7:23:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 7/29/2019 7:25:50 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By justsayin:
How's the Mezcal Marcanegra? Found it in our local abc
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Which one? They will list the type of the agave on the bottle.
Link Posted: 7/30/2019 12:03:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 03screwlariat] [#22]
I was gifted a bottle of Sauza Tres Generaciones Anejo. It is my first introduction to finer sipping Tequila.
Link Posted: 7/30/2019 9:05:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Here's a fun one, this was actually made in Guerrero, which is a far smaller producer of mezcal. It is a much dryer area and the agave varieties have adapted to growing on the cliffsides.

Link Posted: 7/30/2019 9:06:23 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:
I was gifted a bottle of Sauza Tres Generaciones Anejo. It is my first introduction to finer sipping Tequila.
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What'd you think? What'd you like about it? Dislike about it?
Link Posted: 7/31/2019 8:34:12 AM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:
What'd you think? What'd you like about it? Dislike about it?
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:
Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:
I was gifted a bottle of Sauza Tres Generaciones Anejo. It is my first introduction to finer sipping Tequila.
What'd you think? What'd you like about it? Dislike about it?
I need to taste it again but I remeber that is was very smooth with a good finish. I will give you more details tonight.
Link Posted: 8/1/2019 10:03:26 AM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:
I need to taste it again but I remeber that is was very smooth with a good finish. I will give you more details tonight.
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Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:
Originally Posted By WOAFP:
Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:
I was gifted a bottle of Sauza Tres Generaciones Anejo. It is my first introduction to finer sipping Tequila.
What'd you think? What'd you like about it? Dislike about it?
I need to taste it again but I remeber that is was very smooth with a good finish. I will give you more details tonight.
It's very smooth with a sweet oak flavor and a light smokey finish. It aged three years in oak barrels which imparts the smokey finish and a light straw appearance.
Link Posted: 8/1/2019 10:06:39 AM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:

It's very smooth with a sweet oak flavor and a light smokey finish. It aged three years in oak barrels which imparts the smokey finish and a light straw appearance.
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I'm going to badger you a tiny bit just from me being a big spirit nerd. Smooth, is a good starting note, it lets people know that there isn't really a lot of ethanol burn, and that some of the rough edges of a spirit have been mellowed out. Now on to the agave. Did you pick up any other flavors that are familiar to you? Vanilla and brown sugar are common notes that charred oak imparts on a spirit. Wintergreen or mint are common notes from agave, and so are some stone fruits and bell peppers. It can start to be a lot of fun to look for these things in a glass, and really just roll it around your tongue and work your way through a bottle. Then you can even have changes as the bottle gets emptier with more air in it than spirit. This leaves more of the spirit in contact with air and allows it to oxidize slightly and change the flavor.
Link Posted: 8/1/2019 12:02:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WOAFP:
I'm going to badger you a tiny bit just from me being a big spirit nerd. Smooth, is a good starting note, it lets people know that there isn't really a lot of ethanol burn, and that some of the rough edges of a spirit have been mellowed out. Now on to the agave. Did you pick up any other flavors that are familiar to you? Vanilla and brown sugar are common notes that charred oak imparts on a spirit. Wintergreen or mint are common notes from agave, and so are some stone fruits and bell peppers. It can start to be a lot of fun to look for these things in a glass, and really just roll it around your tongue and work your way through a bottle. Then you can even have changes as the bottle gets emptier with more air in it than spirit. This leaves more of the spirit in contact with air and allows it to oxidize slightly and change the flavor.
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:
Originally Posted By 03screwlariat:

It's very smooth with a sweet oak flavor and a light smokey finish. It aged three years in oak barrels which imparts the smokey finish and a light straw appearance.
I'm going to badger you a tiny bit just from me being a big spirit nerd. Smooth, is a good starting note, it lets people know that there isn't really a lot of ethanol burn, and that some of the rough edges of a spirit have been mellowed out. Now on to the agave. Did you pick up any other flavors that are familiar to you? Vanilla and brown sugar are common notes that charred oak imparts on a spirit. Wintergreen or mint are common notes from agave, and so are some stone fruits and bell peppers. It can start to be a lot of fun to look for these things in a glass, and really just roll it around your tongue and work your way through a bottle. Then you can even have changes as the bottle gets emptier with more air in it than spirit. This leaves more of the spirit in contact with air and allows it to oxidize slightly and change the flavor.
Maybe a slight citrus and obviously Agave.
Link Posted: 8/4/2019 7:29:38 PM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By j0hn:
What blanco do you stock for making margaritas? I’m thinking of picking up a handle.

Something that is not super expensive, makes a good margarita, and is enjoyable neat. Fortaleza is on my list but likely won’t use it as a mixer.
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I picked up a bottle of Espolon Blanco, and so far that's the only tequila I've had (not that many) that I've enjoyed, and IMHO, it makes a damn good 3-2-1 margarita.
Link Posted: 8/4/2019 9:54:47 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By BornToLooze:

I picked up a bottle of Espolon Blanco, and so far that's the only tequila I've had (not that many) that I've enjoyed, and IMHO, it makes a damn good 3-2-1 margarita.
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That's a good company. They actually bring a lot of other great mezcals into the US as well through the same import company.
Link Posted: 8/4/2019 9:55:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 8/5/2019 4:20:06 PM EDT
[#32]
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I'm begining to think that you like mezcal.
Link Posted: 8/6/2019 10:38:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 7:39:38 AM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By justsayin:

The one you posted on page one, confirmed.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/135145/marcanegra-1045078.jpg
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That one is an espadin (espa Deen) which is a large farmed variety of agave. The marca negra is a great example with good strong stone fruit (partially ripe peaches) very clear mesquite smoke and good lingering Wintergreen from the agave. If the price is good, it's a really enjoyable bottle.
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 11:50:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Thank you for taking the time to write this up. I've been meaning to do something similar as I continue to explore tequila.
Link Posted: 8/7/2019 12:13:17 PM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By Arkady:
Thank you for taking the time to write this up. I've been meaning to do something similar as I continue to explore tequila.
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Once work isn't so crazy I will add more to it. Agave has a really cool history to it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2019 7:00:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 8/14/2019 8:20:25 PM EDT
[#38]
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How do you like it? As someone that loves Glencairns it took me a while to learn that they aren't the best glass for enjoying agave.  Try the same mezcal out of a small bowl and tell me if you tatse the different.
Link Posted: 8/14/2019 8:31:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 8/14/2019 11:12:56 PM EDT
[#40]
I have a problem.

Link Posted: 8/15/2019 8:32:22 PM EDT
[#41]
This one is from Durango, which you will see very few of in the US. What's really interesting is they bury the Pina with lava rocks for this one and the stoney minerality really shines through.

Link Posted: 8/15/2019 9:08:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Very cool thread. I don't have any hope of finding these in the ABC, but maybe one day...
Link Posted: 8/16/2019 2:32:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Finally tried this one last night.  I thought it was really smooth tasting with a lingering smokiness after taste.  It has a really sweet smell to it.  I actually thought it was better tasting after adding a couple of ice cubes to it.

Link Posted: 8/16/2019 6:05:04 PM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By unsub073:
Finally tried this one last night.  I thought it was really smooth tasting with a lingering smokiness after taste.  It has a really sweet smell to it.  I actually thought it was better tasting after adding a couple of ice cubes to it.

https://i.imgur.com/GkpCXTv.jpg
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Now don't let any mezcaleros hear you say that. they are super adamant that mezcal always be sipped neat out of a wide mouth glass. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Link Posted: 8/16/2019 6:33:28 PM EDT
[#45]
@Bakke1 have you had any other good ones lately?
Link Posted: 8/16/2019 6:55:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bakke1] [#46]
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Originally Posted By WOAFP:
@Bakke1 have you had any other good ones lately?
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@WOAFP

Sadly, no.

I moved to Idaho and we are state run here. Some parts of that are cool, like the insanely cheap prices for this months Pappy Lottery, and the fact that you can look up every bottle in the state from this handy website but the selection is pretty much non existent. So much for my dreams of this years Laphroaig Cairdeas.

But! I was thinking of this thread while hiking today and sipping some Oban 14.

Attachment Attached File


Do you have any guidance on this brand/their bottlings? That Vago Espadin has the most intriguing, smoky agave, stone crushed flavor. Every time I drink it I swear I’m drinking my first Islay again. I would love to try something similar to it.

Attachment Attached File


This one, FWIW.
Link Posted: 8/16/2019 7:12:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WOAFP] [#47]
The bozal stuff is fantastic, and I love that ensamble for the price. Very fruity, and a lot of good ripe peppers on the tongue. Mild smoke, not as much as the vago, but still lingering. They have two palenques that they source from in Oaxaca and one in guerrero. The guy in gerrero makes one of the most amazing espadins I've ever had. If that pechuga is available I would happily pay for one to make it out to me.



Vago is super cool. It was an american guy that got hurt in mexico, and ended up falling in love with a nurse at the hospital. Her dad is Tio Rey who makes some of the best mezcal in the world in the ancestral class. His palenque is actually on page one of this with him sniffing into her fermentation tanks. Aquilllano is famous for his espadins and they are always incredible. He uses a modified copper still that he runs direct to fire and manages all of his cuts just from smell and taste. It's really incredible stuff, and then he uses the tail of the first cut for any proofing he does.

Link Posted: 8/16/2019 7:38:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Way to choose the one they don’t have!

I’ll pick up either a Cuixe, Ensamble, or Tobasiche tomorrow.

This thread has really opened my eyes to how hands on the process is for mezcal. That’s what really drew me to whisky in the first place. How much heart and soul the distilleries put in to these bottles, and the wildly different flavors they can pull out of them. I did a 5 hour tour at Laphroaig and was amazed at what their 27 person staff does to create that juice. But having done some poking around on Mezcal now, it’s an entirely new world (that I will gladly use my wallet to support)

You think there would be any takers for a stickied review thread? There was one many moons ago, but it appears to have fallen in to the archive.  I’ll start a new review thread or toss it in here when I eat it home tomorrow afternoon.
Link Posted: 8/16/2019 8:09:47 PM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By Bakke1:
Way to choose the one they don’t have!

I’ll pick up either a Cuixe, Ensamble, or Tobasiche tomorrow.

This thread has really opened my eyes to how hands on the process is for mezcal. That’s what really drew me to whisky in the first place. How much heart and soul the distilleries put in to these bottles, and the wildly different flavors they can pull out of them. I did a 5 hour tour at Laphroaig and was amazed at what their 27 person staff does to create that juice. But having done some poking around on Mezcal now, it’s an entirely new world (that I will gladly use my wallet to support)

You think there would be any takers for a stickied review thread? There was one many moons ago, but it appears to have fallen in to the archive.  I’ll start a new review thread or toss it in here when I eat it home tomorrow afternoon.
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Yeah, I made that review thread and the glass guide and everything else. They all vanished into nothingness
Link Posted: 8/16/2019 8:27:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: justsayin] [#50]
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