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Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Does the engine control module have some sort of “fuck it mode” where all the emissions and self-protective logic is disabled? Something like War Emergency Power? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By -SkyRaider-: Originally Posted By Dagger41: Trying to get propulsion and power any way they could. Does the engine control module have some sort of “fuck it mode” where all the emissions and self-protective logic is disabled? Something like War Emergency Power? Hammering a BIG diesel to 100% will do that, I think. Engine probably wasn't fully warmed up? |
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Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
USA
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Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: "ceased recording', etc "That's covienent".jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: Originally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEIh2XsAAAw6a?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuES0VXIAAfDwf?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEaKpXMAAGP17?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEe_hWMAA4nOw?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEjEyWAAAuxWv?format=jpg&name=medium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FczgLhdqw0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwWVqTy4Ofg
"ceased recording', etc "That's covienent".jpg Power failures will do that.jpg |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
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Originally Posted By arowneragain: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47056/C9B231E7-E0C8-4413-94C3-04D861F483D4-3171405.jpg View Quote Yup. |
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Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz: For a Russian that is probably close to sober View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Originally Posted By realwar: A Russian cargo ship hits a road bridge in Busan, South Korea. The Korea coastguard said the 5,998-ton Seagrand hit the Gwangan bridge before turning around. No injuries were reported but the bridge was closed for safety checks, the Korea Herald reported. It said the captain had a blood alcohol content of 0.086% when the legal limit is 0.03%. It is not clear if he was at the helm at the time. For a Russian that is probably close to sober Maybe DTs were a factor? In a hurry to get rid of the pilots so he could drink. |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. |
Originally Posted By only1asterisk: I'm honestly shocked stuff like this doesn't happen every other day. View Quote Commercial’s definitely held to a higher standard, but inside the Coast Guard, if you’re responsible for dropping power you’re known as the Prince of Darkness… until the next guy does it. The fact that nickname exists on all coast guard cutters and is handed off multiple times per patrol, should tell you something. Usually people do it when paralleling a generator to the switchboard or taking one offline and killing the entire bus instead of that individual gen. But there are certainly other ways. |
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Just thinking. Shouldn't the ship company pay for the damages? I thought they have to have insurance?
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Bad things happen in isolated instances in an armed populace, horrific things happen to a disarmed populace. 20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
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Originally Posted By Joe731: It's not, let's keep going. You don't think the crew that presumably knows a bit about ships could figure out a way to make the lights go off all at once? Somebody in this thread named you as an SME, but is your ship so much smarter than you that you couldn't figure out a way to make that happen if you wanted to? If all of the electricity comes out of one generator you couldn't think of a way to turn all of that off at once? --"Then it continues on to forgetting there's two 3rd party-assigned pilots that got on board a half-hour before sailing" Every intelligence agency in the world will be bummed to learn that it's impossible to put people who aren't what they seem to be in important places --"that probably can't be convinced to join the plot" Look at this briefcase, it's full of money and pictures of your children --"forgetting the VDR onboard" "He knows that everything this ship does is tracked" --"forensic investigation that's obviously going to take place" "The cops might investigate, we better not try this crime" -Said a lot of people but not all of them If the ship bumped into the beach or something this entire incident would occupy half a page of the you laugh you lose thread and that would be that. But it has a lot more impact than that, and it accidentally worked out in way that some of our enemies love to see. It probably was an accident. But blowing it off as such and shitting on everyone who says maybe it wasn't is stupid. View Quote Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. |
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Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Just thinking. Shouldn't the ship company pay for the damages? I thought they have to have insurance? View Quote Which ship company? From one of the previous posts in the thread, there's like six to pick on. The charter company, the company actually providing the crew, the ship is probably within its own LLC, the company responsible for maintenance, a company that owns the vessel, another company leasing the vessel from that owner, and so on, and so on. All to obfuscate taxes, revenue, and responsibility as much as possible. |
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Originally Posted By Morlawn66: The Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Florida 44 years ago might have clued .gov into potential similar disaster scenarios . Hopefully they at least crunched some numbers to get the odds of a repeat occurrence. Maybe they could tell us what the odds were ? View Quote There is probably no one working in any relevant field today that was working then. History isn't hereditary so the same mistakes tend to get repeated. |
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Bad things happen in isolated instances in an armed populace, horrific things happen to a disarmed populace. 20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
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Originally Posted By GoBigRed: They are thinking dirty fuel? Probably more like some EPA mandated emissions bs failed. View Quote MARPOL Annex VI |
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Kinda on topic.
My wife's nephew(merchant seaman) was on the ship that had just gone under the bridge(leaving port) before the Dali struck it. Roy |
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Originally Posted By 80085: Originally Posted By GoBigRed: They are thinking dirty fuel? Probably more like some EPA mandated emissions bs failed. MARPOL Annex VI I own a company that tests, cleans and polishes fuel on large tanks. From 2000 gallon to multi million gallon tanks. We have done work for the coast guard, shipping lines, the navy, Facebook, Google, huge hospital systems. Etc. Bad fuel is the reality of the industry. Especially when you’re on water. If they had poor maintenance practices, or got fuel overseas, it’s a huge possibility. If they had alot of water in their diesel tanks, that’s… going to do it. |
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Direction, not intention, determines destination.
Integrity is the essence of everything successful. |
Saw several pictures of the Corpus Christi bridge project - thought I would just put a few lines from wiki about it
It was started in 2008, with a projected completion by 2020. In 2019, they moved that back to 2023. Then later in 2019 they completely halted work on the project (due to the 2018 pedestrian bridge collapse in Florida - which was designed by the same company as the Corpus bridge. In 2020, a new company was hired to review and complete the bridge, TX Dot halted work on it again in 2022. Apparently construction was allowed to continue in December of 2022. Current estimate is it will be open in 2025 at a cost of 1.2B. 17 years to build a bridge, maybe? |
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Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: I own a company that tests, cleans and polishes fuel on large tanks. From 2000 gallon to multi million gallon tanks. We have done work for the coast guard, shipping lines, the navy, Facebook, Google, huge hospital systems. Etc. Bad fuel is the reality of the industry. Especially when you’re on water. If they had poor maintenance practices, or got fuel overseas, it’s a huge possibility. If they had alot of water in their diesel tanks, that’s… going to do it. View Quote It honestly wouldn’t surprise me. Both patrol boats I picked up in Baltimore (3 years apart) got fueled from commercial sources and ended up with major fuel quality issues. We were changing filters like crazy on our trip back to Alabama. I love me some F76, Costa Rica lemon lime Gatorade, or Alaskan pure. But that Baltimore shit was damn near as bad as what we got in P-K Russia |
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Might be a dumb question... Haven't seen on a ship in probably 20 years. I read in this thread that they now use ULSD. In the past I remember cargo ships used #6 (bunker oil). Do they only use ULSD now or do they still use #6 when at sea?
It shouldn't be a huge deal to change the boiler to a lighter fuel. |
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Originally Posted By Slickbaby: So when they rebuild the bridge, will it still be the Francis Scott Key bridge or will they rename it to the James Weldon Johnson bridge? View Quote https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Which-African-American-are-we-naming-the-new-bridge-after-/5-2715627/? |
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“As long as none of us gets hurt, we’re making memories.” - one GA trooper to another after shooting HOSTAGE 9 times
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE |
Originally Posted By Seabee_Mech: People would be horrified at the condition of a large percentage of the highway bridges in this country, many are the original bridges built under the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 and were supposed to be updated or replaced by now. As somebody that moves very heavy "Super Loads" across many of these bridges this is very concerning to me. I too am surprised we don't have very many outright failures considering we're placing loads on them that the designers never planned for and neglect and poor budgeting has left them in very bad condition. View Quote https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Freebies-for-Illegals-in-Massachusetts-A-Comprehensive-List/5-2715767/ |
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“As long as none of us gets hurt, we’re making memories.” - one GA trooper to another after shooting HOSTAGE 9 times
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE |
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By arowneragain: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47056/C9B231E7-E0C8-4413-94C3-04D861F483D4-3171405.jpg Yup. https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED33/64a8b62b3f7f3.jpeg |
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I wonder if some of these edge lords ever give thought to what judgement will be passed on them when their day comes? Probably won't be, "Well that guy was an asshole but he sure could vote so that excuses everything". - Bluedsteel
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Army Corps of Engineers sending 1,100 people to assist in heavy clean up.
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It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack
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Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Sounds like most of the guys who fell in, were illegal aliens. One guy is a member of Casa Maryland -a group dedicated to helping illegals. View Quote When I was in construction, Brawner was not held in very high esteem. They hire a lot of subs and we used to have a lot of problems with their work. It might be better now, but when the bottom line is the almighty dollar, I doubt it. |
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Someone make the ship turning directly for the pier cap make sense please. It's the thing I can't get over.
https://twitter.com/MarineTraffic/status/1772545501612671284?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1772545501612671284%7Ctwgr%5E0d1b41a01550947c89e229c90a42e499a5885c48%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fbaltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-ship-changed-direction-1883459 |
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Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT: Engine went into limp mode at the wrong time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT: Originally Posted By GoBigRed: They are thinking dirty fuel? Probably more like some EPA mandated emissions bs failed. Engine went into limp mode at the wrong time. Rahid! I told you fill up on DEF before we left, you never listen! |
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Originally Posted By Chokey:
https://www.twz.com/sea/two-of-the-fastest-u-s-sealift-ships-trapped-by-baltimore-bridge-collapse View Quote |
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"I guess you already know that there are angels masquerading as people walking around this planet and your mom was the bravest one of those." - Idgie Threadgoode, Fried Green Tomatoes
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Someone make the ship turning directly for the pier cap make sense please. It's the thing I can't get over. https://twitter.com/MarineTraffic/status/1772545501612671284?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1772545501612671284%7Ctwgr%5E0d1b41a01550947c89e229c90a42e499a5885c48%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fbaltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-ship-changed-direction-1883459 View Quote Mr. Murphy has a long and distinguished history of sea service shennanigans. |
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Originally Posted By Equestrian: Rahid! I told you fill up on DEF before we left, you never listen! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Equestrian: Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT: Originally Posted By GoBigRed: They are thinking dirty fuel? Probably more like some EPA mandated emissions bs failed. Engine went into limp mode at the wrong time. Rahid! I told you fill up on DEF before we left, you never listen! Boss! I did add DEF! It went right in the fuel tank with the gas! |
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Originally Posted By Rick-OShay: Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rick-OShay: Originally Posted By Joe731: It's not, let's keep going. You don't think the crew that presumably knows a bit about ships could figure out a way to make the lights go off all at once? Somebody in this thread named you as an SME, but is your ship so much smarter than you that you couldn't figure out a way to make that happen if you wanted to? If all of the electricity comes out of one generator you couldn't think of a way to turn all of that off at once? --"Then it continues on to forgetting there's two 3rd party-assigned pilots that got on board a half-hour before sailing" Every intelligence agency in the world will be bummed to learn that it's impossible to put people who aren't what they seem to be in important places --"that probably can't be convinced to join the plot" Look at this briefcase, it's full of money and pictures of your children --"forgetting the VDR onboard" "He knows that everything this ship does is tracked" --"forensic investigation that's obviously going to take place" "The cops might investigate, we better not try this crime" -Said a lot of people but not all of them If the ship bumped into the beach or something this entire incident would occupy half a page of the you laugh you lose thread and that would be that. But it has a lot more impact than that, and it accidentally worked out in way that some of our enemies love to see. It probably was an accident. But blowing it off as such and shitting on everyone who says maybe it wasn't is stupid. Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15° to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. |
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The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. |
Originally Posted By brass: That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15 to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By Rick-OShay: Originally Posted By Joe731: It's not, let's keep going. You don't think the crew that presumably knows a bit about ships could figure out a way to make the lights go off all at once? Somebody in this thread named you as an SME, but is your ship so much smarter than you that you couldn't figure out a way to make that happen if you wanted to? If all of the electricity comes out of one generator you couldn't think of a way to turn all of that off at once? --"Then it continues on to forgetting there's two 3rd party-assigned pilots that got on board a half-hour before sailing" Every intelligence agency in the world will be bummed to learn that it's impossible to put people who aren't what they seem to be in important places --"that probably can't be convinced to join the plot" Look at this briefcase, it's full of money and pictures of your children --"forgetting the VDR onboard" "He knows that everything this ship does is tracked" --"forensic investigation that's obviously going to take place" "The cops might investigate, we better not try this crime" -Said a lot of people but not all of them If the ship bumped into the beach or something this entire incident would occupy half a page of the you laugh you lose thread and that would be that. But it has a lot more impact than that, and it accidentally worked out in way that some of our enemies love to see. It probably was an accident. But blowing it off as such and shitting on everyone who says maybe it wasn't is stupid. Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15 to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. The videos seem to contradict the multiple reports of the hard left rudder command that was apparently given. |
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The tragedy could lead to up to $4 billion in insurance claims, Morningstar DBRS said.
It was too soon to put a figure on the total insurance loss, Bruce Carnegie-Brown told Reuters, but he said he would be "very surprised" if the event did not result in a multi-billion dollar loss, adding that "the tragedy has the capacity to become the largest single marine insurance loss ever". Lloyd's reported a 2023 pre-tax profit of 10.7 billion pounds ($13.49 billion) earlier on Thursday, boosted by strong underwriting and investment performance. |
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Just harmless fun.
-Apocalypto- Norcal call sign "Wicked" KoW Sir Speedmaster |
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Originally Posted By WoodHeat: The videos seem to contradict the multiple reports of the hard left rudder command that was apparently given. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By WoodHeat: Originally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By Rick-OShay: Originally Posted By Joe731: It's not, let's keep going. You don't think the crew that presumably knows a bit about ships could figure out a way to make the lights go off all at once? Somebody in this thread named you as an SME, but is your ship so much smarter than you that you couldn't figure out a way to make that happen if you wanted to? If all of the electricity comes out of one generator you couldn't think of a way to turn all of that off at once? --"Then it continues on to forgetting there's two 3rd party-assigned pilots that got on board a half-hour before sailing" Every intelligence agency in the world will be bummed to learn that it's impossible to put people who aren't what they seem to be in important places --"that probably can't be convinced to join the plot" Look at this briefcase, it's full of money and pictures of your children --"forgetting the VDR onboard" "He knows that everything this ship does is tracked" --"forensic investigation that's obviously going to take place" "The cops might investigate, we better not try this crime" -Said a lot of people but not all of them If the ship bumped into the beach or something this entire incident would occupy half a page of the you laugh you lose thread and that would be that. But it has a lot more impact than that, and it accidentally worked out in way that some of our enemies love to see. It probably was an accident. But blowing it off as such and shitting on everyone who says maybe it wasn't is stupid. Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15 to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. The videos seem to contradict the multiple reports of the hard left rudder command that was apparently given. Wind (think of the square meters of "sail area"). Add current. Also container ships, even when under power, turn like container ships. People are applying car logic to this situation. These are the same people that make launching ramps so entertaining. |
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Originally Posted By realwar: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/27/22/82971783-13246433-image-a-17_1711576951916.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/27/22/82961373-13246433-Photos_showed_at_least_a_dozen_large_ships_sitting_in_the_Chesap-a-18_1711577043599.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/27/22/82971617-13246433-This_aerial_image_shows_container_ships_anchored_in_the_Chesapea-a-19_1711577046326.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/27/22/82971943-13246433-Each_green_dot_is_a_large_container_ship_or_tanker_stuck_in_the_-a-20_1711577051025.jpg Each green dot is a large container ship or tanker stuck in the Chesapeake Bay, unable to enter the Port of Baltimore Experts estimated more than $15 million in local economic activity would be lost for every day the port stays shut. Over the next few weeks, 107 vessels scheduled to dock in Baltimore will have to find another port - and far more the longer the harbor is closed. Baltimore handled 52.3 million tons of foreign cargo last year worth about $80.8 billion, ranking ninth in the US for both metrics and records for the port. The cost to shipping, consumers, and the American economy is too early to calculate, but every day the port is closed is $217 million worth of cargo not arriving. The port generates more than 15,000 jobs, including 2,000 dock workers down $2 million a day in lost wages, and another 140,000 are dependent on port activity. Link View Quote Not to worry. Uncle Joe will take care of his own before election day. "Crisis=Blessing" |
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"People, ideas, and hardware...in that order!" Col John Boyd
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Originally Posted By brass: That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15° to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By Rick-OShay: Originally Posted By Joe731: It's not, let's keep going. You don't think the crew that presumably knows a bit about ships could figure out a way to make the lights go off all at once? Somebody in this thread named you as an SME, but is your ship so much smarter than you that you couldn't figure out a way to make that happen if you wanted to? If all of the electricity comes out of one generator you couldn't think of a way to turn all of that off at once? --"Then it continues on to forgetting there's two 3rd party-assigned pilots that got on board a half-hour before sailing" Every intelligence agency in the world will be bummed to learn that it's impossible to put people who aren't what they seem to be in important places --"that probably can't be convinced to join the plot" Look at this briefcase, it's full of money and pictures of your children --"forgetting the VDR onboard" "He knows that everything this ship does is tracked" --"forensic investigation that's obviously going to take place" "The cops might investigate, we better not try this crime" -Said a lot of people but not all of them If the ship bumped into the beach or something this entire incident would occupy half a page of the you laugh you lose thread and that would be that. But it has a lot more impact than that, and it accidentally worked out in way that some of our enemies love to see. It probably was an accident. But blowing it off as such and shitting on everyone who says maybe it wasn't is stupid. Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15° to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. It's not easy to go in a straight line in water, regardless of wind and current, it takes a lot of constant adjustments, so there's no telling how the rudder was turned the instant power was lost. If you try to manually go a long distance in a straight line it typically looks like a snakes path. The slower you are going the worse it is. |
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Dómine Jesu, dimitte nobis débita nostra, salva nos ab igne inferni; perduc in caelum omnes ánimas, praesertim eas, quae misericórdiae tuae máxime indigent.
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“Liberalism, the noble annihilator, has hollowed out every institution, every binding force, every social failsafe and backstop, and its agents feign surprise when the liberating infanticide it promotes is taken to its next logical step.”
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: It's not easy to go in a straight line in water, regardless of wind and current, it takes a lot of constant adjustments, so there's no telling how the rudder was turned the instant power was lost. If you try to manually go a long distance in a straight line it typically looks like a snakes path. The slower you are going the worse it is. View Quote I don't wanna tinfoil but I got Spidey senses tingling over here |
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Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: I own a company that tests, cleans and polishes fuel on large tanks. From 2000 gallon to multi million gallon tanks. We have done work for the coast guard, shipping lines, the navy, Facebook, Google, huge hospital systems. Etc. Bad fuel is the reality of the industry. Especially when you're on water. If they had poor maintenance practices, or got fuel overseas, it's a huge possibility. If they had alot of water in their diesel tanks, that's going to do it. View Quote My bet is on poor maintenance practices. Those Indian crew members are paid only $2-3/hour. In addition to the existing standards for pilots/captains, some sort of licensing for crews. |
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America did not become a superpower by working from home or from a cubicle.
- LurchAddams |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tweek: Originally Posted By arowneragain: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47056/C9B231E7-E0C8-4413-94C3-04D861F483D4-3171405.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/86524/TMIG_jpg-3171420.JPG The irony of this when they clearly hit the upright |
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Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
USA
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Left anchor down and a turn left command and it still turned 15 deg right, perfectly into a bridge pier tho? I don't wanna tinfoil but I got Spidey senses tingling over here View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: It's not easy to go in a straight line in water, regardless of wind and current, it takes a lot of constant adjustments, so there's no telling how the rudder was turned the instant power was lost. If you try to manually go a long distance in a straight line it typically looks like a snakes path. The slower you are going the worse it is. I don't wanna tinfoil but I got Spidey senses tingling over here That's the meds wearing off. |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
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Originally Posted By brass: That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15° to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. View Quote They were outbound on an ebb, nearing slack tide. Don't know winds and prevailing currents and last rudder position, but the bow falls off pretty slowly. Not abnormal in my experience at all |
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Originally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEIh2XsAAAw6a?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuES0VXIAAfDwf?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEaKpXMAAGP17?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEe_hWMAA4nOw?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJuEjEyWAAAuxWv?format=jpg&name=medium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FczgLhdqw0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwWVqTy4Ofg
View Quote It looks like around 2.5 minutes from the alarm call over radio until the collision. In that time, someone recognized the potential for a catastrophe and MDTA personnel were able to shut down traffic on both sides of the bridge. I don't know how long the bridge is and the normal vehicular transit time, but the extremely quick response by multiple people no doubt saved lives. I am curious if there have been interviews with drivers who crossed the bridge just prior to the collapse and drivers who were stopped from entering the bridge. By now they surely know how close they came to being killed. |
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(Copied from a letter I just sent to my family, after my brother, who worked on the Key Bridge, sent us some photos he took during its construction.) Dear Family, I don't think people can possibly understand that those pillars and other bridge structures J worked on were all massive "pours." These were not prefab pillars brought in and set in place. The giant concrete forms all had to built around the massive rebar structures built by hand by the iron workers and laborers. J's photos on top are like a picture of the cherry on top of a cake. That was almost the "topping out" party. The work that went into getting there, up to that point, people just would not believe. To be standing at the top of that process must be unforgettable. Did they use concrete pumps then, or all buckets? In the same era, if not the same summer, I worked on the 95 and 395 "flyover" bridges over the same river. You worked at the top, I was at the bottom working down in a cofferdam. My working area looked like the artist's rendition on top. Square, with a barge and crane by it. The bottom working area looked like in the photo, but we were not near anything and did not have a foot bridge. We were out in the middle of the river. We were brought to the barge on work boats, and lowered down into the bottom of the river bed in a "man basket." We jack hammered the bed rock to make about 100 holes in a pattern, put dynamite into them, covered it all with a giant steel mesh blanket, (lowered by the crane), then we got far away. The steel blanket would fly up into the air above the cofferdam but it contained all the rocks and rubble. Then we'd go back down and put all the rocks into an empty cement bucket lowered down to us by the crane. Anything too big to lift by hand had a steel wire choker put around it for the crane to lift out and put on other barges for removal. When all the rocks and boulders were out, we did the jack hammering again. We'd have to change the jackhammer drill bits for longer ones as we went down. 2', 4', 6'. That was heavy work. It took several men to lift the jackhammers out of the holes with the long bits on them. The dust and noise was unbelievable. Just yellow foam earplugs. Pumps on the barge running 24/7 to keep the river out because the cofferdam's interlocking steel planks were not watertight. When we had a new pattern of 100 or or so holes, all drilled to the same level depth, we did another demolition charge with dynamite the size of paper towel tubes down each hole. I eagerly worked with the demo-man as his assistant, nobody else wanted to be near cases and cases of dynamite! Before I was ever a SEAL, I had personally put blasting caps into probably a thousand dynamite charges, about 100 per "shot." The wires were wrapped around the charges and that's how we lowered them down each hole, by their blasting cap wires. Pea gravel was poured down each hole to "tamp" the explosions for maximum power. Then they were all wired together for one big blast. I was alone at the bottom of the cofferdam with the demo man for all of that charge preparation and placement and wiring. All the other older construction workers wanted nothing to do with demo, but I loved it! Then the crane would lift us up and we'd be taken far away. I would be standing next to the demo guy, and I got to push the button a few times. BOOM! Then repeat the process deep down into bedrock under the Patapsco River with jackhammers. Those supporting piers are STRONG. I think of the 395 as "my bridge." Always very high decibels. Giant pumps running, and a half-dozen jackhammers going all the time down in a steel box! Injuries like cuts were wrapped in pieces of t-shirt and duct tape until the end of your work day. The workers were very tough men. West Virginia hillbillies, Vietnam vets and ex-convicts. Working with them down in the cofferdam and on other Baltimore mega-construction jobs in the 1970s gave me the confidence to become a SEAL. Other summers I also worked on big highway and land construction projects down in Dundalk, but working at the bottom of the Patapsco River stands out in my mind above them all. I think I was 16 or 17 at the time. I was a card-carrying member of International Union of Laborers. If you said you were 18, and looked like you could work, you were good to go. In those days, driver licenses and union cards were not laminated, and did not have photos on them. I showed up for my first construction job with a beat-up hard hat, a dirty tool belt and dirty work boots and was hired at a construction trailer in the pre-dawn dark. My dad and J had told me what to do and say and it worked. I was hired and never looked back. I was making $ 5.50 an hour when the minimum wage was about $ 1.50. I was making triple what my high school friends made at pizza joints. J also worked the big concrete pours high up on the 40-story Transamerica Tower in downtown Baltimore. I did nothing even close to that. We never worked the same jobs, but for all of them, we took several buses in the dark in our hardhats and work boots with our tool belts to get to the jobs, and we came home filthy. But everybody on the buses had great respect and deference for construction workers back then. We were "the hard hats" who were visibly building up Baltimore and the whole port area month by month and year by year! But in my opinion the crowning achievement of them all was the Francis Scott Key Bridge. For almost 50 years the Key Bridge literally framed Baltimore for every mariner as they sailed in from the Chesapeake. It also gave motorists a fantastic view of Baltimore. It must be unbelievable to you all in Baltimore what happened to it. I wish Maryland had built giant protective dolphin islands like they did for the similar Betsy Ross Bridge in Philly. End of an era. It's just gut wrenching to think not only of the terrible current consequences, but the millions and millions of brutally-hard man-hours of labor that went into building that bridge. It really bothers me that it was destroyed. My mind has just been flooding with these old Baltimore construction job memories since the disaster. Hence this long missive. Images at link. |
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Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Tell me you don't understand momentum and energy . View Quote The ship clearly made a starboard move, before power went out. Something like 5 min before it hit. And then it accentuated that move the closer it got. It was on course for a center ish bridge cross, and then it changed. If you wanna say that's a "wave or water induced move".....yeahhhhidunnoabout all that. Someone's going to have to say they had a major mechanical with the rudder and it jammed to the right or something for me to swallow that story. |
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Left anchor down and a turn left command and it still turned 15 deg right, perfectly into a bridge pier tho? I don't wanna tinfoil but I got Spidey senses tingling over here View Quote |
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"the science" /duh si-ens/ noun: progressive postmodern religious dogma not based in tested hypothesis or facts used to advance an authoritative political ideology
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Tell me what u think I know. I just watched that thing do a 180 turn on the tracker. Clearly it can maneuver. The ship clearly made a starboard move, before power went out. Something like 5 min before it hit. And then it accentuated that move the closer it got. It was on course for a center ish bridge cross, and then it changed. If you wanna say that's a "wave or water induced move".....yeahhhhidunnoabout all that. Someone's going to have to say they had a major mechanical with the rudder and it jammed to the right or something for me to swallow that story. View Quote What’s your personal experience with boats? How much of your life have you spent in a seagoing service or even fishing in a bass boat? Because you’re saying some dumb shit that anybody who’s ever stood at the helm of a ship wouldn’t say |
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"the science" /duh si-ens/ noun: progressive postmodern religious dogma not based in tested hypothesis or facts used to advance an authoritative political ideology
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Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT: There is probably no one working in any relevant field today that was working then. History isn't hereditary so the same mistakes tend to get repeated. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT: Originally Posted By Morlawn66: The Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Florida 44 years ago might have clued .gov into potential similar disaster scenarios . Hopefully they at least crunched some numbers to get the odds of a repeat occurrence. Maybe they could tell us what the odds were ? There is probably no one working in any relevant field today that was working then. History isn't hereditary so the same mistakes tend to get repeated. Not 0? |
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Not even straight down at full throttle with a tailwind
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Tell me what u think I know. I just watched that thing do a 180 turn on the tracker. Clearly it can maneuver. The ship clearly made a starboard move, before power went out. Something like 5 min before it hit. And then it accentuated that move the closer it got. It was on course for a center ish bridge cross, and then it changed. If you wanna say that's a "wave or water induced move".....yeahhhhidunnoabout all that. Someone's going to have to say they had a major mechanical with the rudder and it jammed to the right or something for me to swallow that story. View Quote LOL “I know what I saw.” |
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Originally Posted By Curare: Wind (think of the square meters of "sail area"). Add current. Also container ships, even when under power, turn like container ships. People are applying car logic to this situation. These are the same people that make launching ramps so entertaining. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Curare: Originally Posted By WoodHeat: Originally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By Rick-OShay: Originally Posted By Joe731: It's not, let's keep going. You don't think the crew that presumably knows a bit about ships could figure out a way to make the lights go off all at once? Somebody in this thread named you as an SME, but is your ship so much smarter than you that you couldn't figure out a way to make that happen if you wanted to? If all of the electricity comes out of one generator you couldn't think of a way to turn all of that off at once? --"Then it continues on to forgetting there's two 3rd party-assigned pilots that got on board a half-hour before sailing" Every intelligence agency in the world will be bummed to learn that it's impossible to put people who aren't what they seem to be in important places --"that probably can't be convinced to join the plot" Look at this briefcase, it's full of money and pictures of your children --"forgetting the VDR onboard" "He knows that everything this ship does is tracked" --"forensic investigation that's obviously going to take place" "The cops might investigate, we better not try this crime" -Said a lot of people but not all of them If the ship bumped into the beach or something this entire incident would occupy half a page of the you laugh you lose thread and that would be that. But it has a lot more impact than that, and it accidentally worked out in way that some of our enemies love to see. It probably was an accident. But blowing it off as such and shitting on everyone who says maybe it wasn't is stupid. Now way to predict where exactly that ship is going to end up when the power goes off. It might harmlessly pass under the bridge. That is one strange point about the tracking plot. it turned 15 to the SSE toward the pylon 3-4 minutes before the impact. If it hadn't made that turn it would have made it under the bridge. It was still increasing speed when they were making the turn if the tracking data is right so that's confusing tome a little bit. I'd think power failure would keep ship on existing path and not crank steering one way or the other. The videos seem to contradict the multiple reports of the hard left rudder command that was apparently given. Wind (think of the square meters of "sail area"). Add current. Also container ships, even when under power, turn like container ships. People are applying car logic to this situation. These are the same people that make launching ramps so entertaining. I was a deck officer on container ships. There was nowhere near enough wind to initiate such a course change. Port rudder and port anchor combined shouldn't have caused the stern to swing to port. I guess that I'm doubtful of the port rudder reports. Could be incorrect reporting, could have been carried out incorrectly by the Indian helmsman, hard to say. In one aerial shot I saw of the aftermath the rudder looked centered. Time will tell. |
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