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Posted: 6/8/2011 12:56:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Just seen too many Hollywood war movies. Say a 155mm lands next to you. How far would you have to be to be unscathed and just require a make-up touch-up. I'd say 10 miles.  |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 12:56:16 PM EDT
[#2]
100m kill radius on the 155 IIRC
But Wiki says The kill zone is approximately a radius of 50 meters and casualty radius is 100 meters. So I'm probably wrong  |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 12:56:32 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd want to be a couple of hundred meters away at least, personally.  Preferably in a bunker, or inside a tank, too!  |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 12:56:49 PM EDT
[#4]
I thought it was 150m
50M kill, 100M casualty. edited for the correct answer |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 12:57:11 PM EDT
[#5]
The kill radius is 50 meters, and the casualty radius is 100 meters. So I guess if you're within 100 meters or so, you're gonna have a very bad day.
ETA - After reading a bit more, 100 meters seems pretty conservative to me. The standard HE round weighs about 100 lbs, about 30 lbs of that is TNT and composition B, and on detonation it produces something like 1900 fragments. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:01:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Depends on how lucky you are, and what the round did. A round that hits the dirt is going to be less effective then one that airbursts over your head.
IIRC, killzone was about 50 meters, but it was still expected to mess you up well past that range. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:02:45 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm have no idea how these things work, but how does it explode milliseconds before it hits the ground?
Magnets? |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:05:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Danger close is within 600m, FWIW.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:08:49 PM EDT
[#9]
87 feet from impact
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:11:38 PM EDT
[#10]
I had a few 107mm rockets impact within 50m of me...good cover is a good thing but the frag was lethal for those it hit anywhere vital. Had a 240mm rocket land about 300m away and it was devistation...cover wasn't cover from that thing.
Artillery scares the crap out of me. Hearing rounds leave the rails inbound and counting seconds until impact wasn't cool...not at all. Mortars...even worse...you hear the round launch and know its coming. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:11:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Let's see.
HE PD 150 meter kill radius. HE VT Damn can't find my XO's Handbook.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:13:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I thought it was 150m 50M kill, 100M casualty. edited for the correct answer That's for 4-square M107 HE/PD. M864 is another story. 
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:14:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Radar inside the shell.I'm have no idea how these things work, but how does it explode milliseconds before it hits the ground? Magnets? They've been doing that since late 1944.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:15:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I'm have no idea how these things work, but how does it explode milliseconds before it hits the ground? Magnets? Prox fuse? |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:15:40 PM EDT
[#15]
If I remember correctly there are 8 guns in a battery . A fire mission is all eight. After spotter calls fire for effect. Facing modern defended positions on foot is insanity.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:15:41 PM EDT
[#16]
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever.
Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this:
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:16:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Wouldn't the height of air burst make a difference in casualty range?
I've been watching videos of even 81mm mortars ,and even 50m from them still can mess you up bad. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:17:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Let's see. HE PD 150 meter kill radius. HE VT Damn can't find my XO's Handbook.
For shame! M107 HE/PD is 50m. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:19:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all?
I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:22:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I'm have no idea how these things work, but how does it explode milliseconds before it hits the ground? Magnets? Two ways: Time fuze or VT fuze. Time fuze uses a mechanical time fuze set according to time of flight, altitude of the target, etc. One of the cannon crewmembers sets the time manually according to what the FDC tells them. It is set to function 20 meters above the target. VT uses a small proximity, or radar, fuze to detonate the round 7 meters above the target. You have to be careful that you don't shoot right over trees or other objects along the flight path of the round. Otherwise, it may function before it gets to the target. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:22:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. That is fucking amazing.
Definitely the wrong time to be the bad guy with that much steel raining down. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:23:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I'm have no idea how these things work, but how does it explode milliseconds before it hits the ground? Magnets? Either a time fuse or a fuse with a little radar in it that goes off when the signal gets to a predetermined level - also called a "VT" or proximity fuse..... |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:24:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
If I remember correctly there are 8 guns in a battery . A fire mission is all eight. After spotter calls fire for effect. Facing modern defended positions on foot is insanity. How long have you been out? Most cannon arty battalions are 3x6 plus 1 ORF gun. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:24:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all? I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? part of it on iwo was simply getting more ashore than they could kill  remember, the germans were VERY close to pushing us back into the sea in italy.. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:26:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all? I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? Nope, D-Day would still have gone as planned. We just would have taken more casualties to get the job done. Once it got daylight, any artillery batteries not taken out by the paratroopers would have been annihilated by tactical air, just like happened in real life. Problem was, the Japs couldn't mass their fires like we could. Germans either for that matter. We perfected the Time on Target and had the ability to rapidly mass fires from multiple artillery battalions. The Germans and Japs never really mastered that. Germans did better than the Japs, though. The only thing the Japs were really good at was camouflage and dying. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:26:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Mythbusters did a cool thing about blast radius. Assuming the blast is at ground level, it takes very little cover to reduce the kill radius to a casualty. Even as little as a wooden table. It blocks/reduces the pressure wave.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:27:44 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't even want to be in the same area code as a 155 landing.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:29:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all? I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? part of it on iwo was simply getting more ashore than they could kill
remember, the germans were VERY close to pushing us back into the sea in italy.. Yeah, but if the video of that fire mission were landing on a fucking beach for hours, it would be futile. And that video didn't have anywhere near the level of boom the japanese had. Certainly better fire control, though. I am amazed that men could even order others to make the assault, and more amazed that so many had the balls to MAKE the assault. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:31:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all? I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? Nope, D-Day would still have gone as planned. We just would have taken more casualties to get the job done. Once it got daylight, any artillery batteries not taken out by the paratroopers would have been annihilated by tactical air, just like happened in real life. Problem was, the Japs couldn't mass their fires like we could. Germans either for that matter. We perfected the Time on Target and had the ability to rapidly mass fires from multiple artillery battalions. The Germans and Japs never really mastered that. Germans did better than the Japs, though. The only thing the Japs were really good at was camouflage and dying. So the art of artillery was too imperfect at the time? |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:35:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all? I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? The 155mm guns that the Rangers were sent to neutralise at Pointe du Hoc would have really fucked up Utah beach. They could have also targeted Omaha, as well as the fleet at sea. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:37:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I am amazed that men could even order others to make the assault, and more amazed that so many had the balls to MAKE the assault. Hmm lets see. 1. Make the assault and MAYBE die. 2. Mutiny and face trial after which you WILL die. Option 1 sucks but is a world better than option 2. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:39:31 PM EDT
[#32]
While serving in an Artillery Battalion I had a round explode above me. I was on a hill top and the BN was lobbing the rounds over the hill onto the range. I am not sure of the distance between the detonation and my position but the concussion knocked the wind out of my lungs and my ears rang for days. They told me they were using old rounds and it had a malfunction and went off prematurely.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:42:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I had a few 107mm rockets impact within 50m of me...good cover is a good thing but the frag was lethal for those it hit anywhere vital. Had a 240mm rocket land about 300m away and it was devistation...cover wasn't cover from that thing. Artillery scares the crap out of me. Hearing rounds leave the rails inbound and counting seconds until impact wasn't cool...not at all. Mortars...even worse...you hear the round launch and know its coming. He speaks truth. Had a 107mm rocket impact within 300 meters, wasn't actually that scary on the opposite side of a T-wall. 255mm hit a collection of CHUs, wasn't much left within 100 meteres. Amazingly in scenario 2 the walls held, not much damage outside. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:49:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Where's RON? The man is an artillery Guru.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:50:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Anything that relies on frag is a crap shoot.......had a hand grenade go off 5 feet from me, not a scratch, last deployment we routinely hit buildings with Excal rounds and didn't hurt a single person inside. On the other hand....I know a guy that knows a guy that was killed by frag from a VBIED that was many hundreds of meters away.
Blast is a pretty uniform way to kill people, but you need much more bang to get the same radius |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 1:59:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am amazed that men could even order others to make the assault, and more amazed that so many had the balls to MAKE the assault. Hmm lets see. 1. Make the assault and MAYBE die. 2. Mutiny and face trial after which you WILL die. Option 1 sucks but is a world better than option 2. I don't think that was the factor that drove those men to do that. Immediacy of the threat alone would leave men refusing in droves if survival was the only motivator. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:01:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. That is a whole lot of shut the fuck up right there..
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:27:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. That is a whole lot of shut the fuck up right there.. All I see is glowing things floating off into the night sky, like those paper lanterns. For those of us who have never been in the military, what are we seeing? |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:30:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. That is a whole lot of shut the fuck up right there.. All I see is glowing things floating off into the night sky, like those paper lanterns. For those of us who have never been in the military, what are we seeing? RAP rounds are a possibility (Rocket Assisted Projectile). I'm not arty, so I can't say for sure. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:30:23 PM EDT
[#40]
I was a Forward Observer in Vietnam for a rifle company in the Central Highlands. I have fired 105mm to within 25 meters of my position. 155mm to within 75 meters of my position, 8 inch to within 100 meters.
I have also put in air strikes with 500 pound bombs and Zuni rockets so close the fragments were cutting down large trees right over us. I don't like doing this but some times you just have to do what you have to do. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:32:37 PM EDT
[#41]
300m was close enough for me.
155mm definitely gets the job done. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:37:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. The battery commanded during OIF 1 fired in that mission that is base burn ICM. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:40:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Wow, I had no idea those things stayed airborne that long.It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8 Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:41:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Mythbusters did a cool thing about blast radius. Assuming the blast is at ground level, it takes very little cover to reduce the kill radius to a casualty. Even as little as a wooden table. It blocks/reduces the pressure wave. I liked that episode, although they didn't factor in shrapnel in their experiment. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:43:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Depends on the munition being used and the size of the artillery piece. A 105mm howitzer isn't going to put as much hurt on an area as a 155mm or 152mm howitzer.
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:43:51 PM EDT
[#46]
The P sub I for a 155mm M107 round is 200 meters at 1/3 max firing range 280 meters at 2/3 range and 450 meters at max range, that is the distance at which you have a .1 percent chance of being wounded. For a 10 percent P sub I it is 100 meters at between 1-2/3 range and 125 meters for max range.
Actual Effective Miss Distances are classified. A freak accident happen back in the late 80s when a portion of the base plate from an HE round came back over a mile and killed a Marine in the open. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:44:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, I had no idea those things stayed airborne that long.
It really doesn't make much difference. It's not likely to be just one round, unless it's for registration or adjust. There's probably several dozen more right behind it, prox, burst, DPICM, delay, whatever. Or there could be a couple of hundred right behind it, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYR-H4Hgoz8
Then there's nothing you can do, no where to run. That rounds being shot go 28.4 KM. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:46:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Anything that relies on frag is a crap shoot.......had a hand grenade go off 5 feet from me, not a scratch, last deployment we routinely hit buildings with Excal rounds and didn't hurt a single person inside. On the other hand....I know a guy that knows a guy that was killed by frag from a VBIED that was many hundreds of meters away. Blast is a pretty uniform way to kill people, but you need much more bang to get the same radius Know a guy who took a piece of shrapnel from an SVBIED to the throat from about 100m. Only soldier killed in that attack, 17 civilians killed in the market place. Had a 107mm rocket land about 30 ft from me. Fortunately it was on the other side of a nice thick wall, but if it hadn't been . . . there was a crater in the wall that would have gone right through where I was standing. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:46:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, so suffice it to say if the germans had current US artillery and fire control, D-Day would have been a flop. Iwo Jima same thing. How do massed troops making an assault survive this stuff at all? I've seen it from a distance in person, and always wondered how anyone could have succesfully stormed Iwo Jima when huge guns had LOS on the beaches. Damn good suppressing fire? Nope, D-Day would still have gone as planned. We just would have taken more casualties to get the job done. Once it got daylight, any artillery batteries not taken out by the paratroopers would have been annihilated by tactical air, just like happened in real life. Problem was, the Japs couldn't mass their fires like we could. Germans either for that matter. We perfected the Time on Target and had the ability to rapidly mass fires from multiple artillery battalions. The Germans and Japs never really mastered that. Germans did better than the Japs, though. The only thing the Japs were really good at was camouflage and dying. So the art of artillery was too imperfect at the time? For them, yes. The US was state of the art. It was one area where our techniques were far ahead of the enemy. Dunno about the soviets at the time; they just fired a shitload of tubes until the target ceased to exist. |
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Posted: 6/8/2011 2:47:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
The P sub I for a 155mm M107 round is 200 meters at 1/3 max firing range 280 meters at 2/3 range and 450 meters at max range, that is the distance at which you have a .1 percent chance of being wounded. For a 10 percent P sub I it is 100 meters at between 1-2/3 range and 125 meters for max range. Actual Effective Miss Distances are classified. A freak accident happen back in the late 80s when a portion of the base plate from an HE round came back over a mile and killed a Marine in the open. Large fragment danger radiuses are quite large. Some are measured in miles. |
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