User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:08:32 PM EDT
My brother and I used issued Korean surplus ammunition with this result:
  STAY AWAY FROM head stamp PS 75! It blew-up both rifles! My stock was cracked, his is pictured. We found unfired rounds with cracks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:15:05 PM EDT
[#1]
QCMGR: Oh man, thanks for the warning. I'm glad you guys are okay. I see that the stock are pretty much toast. Are your rifles okay? Does the unfired cartridges look okay? I usually don't fire any ammo that is dirty or otherwise looks abnormal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:16:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Did you post this in Ammo as well QCMGR?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:17:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Wow!
Anybody hurt? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:19:55 PM EDT
[#4]
What is the result of the rifle? Barrel split? Bulged?
Is this the stuff from Fulton? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:27:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Where did you get this ammo?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:30:26 PM EDT
[#6]
OMG [shock]
I hope you guys are alright! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:46:10 PM EDT
[#7]
That sucks for sure, but if it blew up one gun, why keep using it?
Unless of course it blew them both up at the same moment. Balming |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:46:15 PM EDT
[#8]
That's not good!
What's the end-result for your rifles? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:51:38 PM EDT
[#9]
I could not find any addition damage with the op-rods, receivers or bolts. Headspace was good on both. I am going to re-stock and test Monday. My brother had burn marks on his forehead. Two other guys with 03A3's had nasty "strawberries" on their cheeks. I have not posted in the ammo section yet. The ammo was issued for the match. This is scary sh-t! I cringe at the thought of what could have happened.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:53:21 PM EDT
[#10]
You guys need to buy the Danish surplus ammo, not the Korean [rolleyes]
I hope ya'll are both okay! Bummer about the stocks |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:53:40 PM EDT
[#11]
At least you saved money by shooting Questionable ammo!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 2:58:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: That sucks for sure, but if it blew up one gun, why keep using it? Unless of course it blew them both up at the same moment. Balming Good point! My brother was in the middle of slow prone when his stock spit. I thought it was just a bad stock, (having never seen this before) and I let him use my rifle. When he was done he said he felt something hit his face and we looked at my stock and it was cracked. What really sucks is I am finding out this is a known defect with this lot of ammunition. It wasn’t until I found the cases that I realized what happened. My brother finished the match with a third rifle. When it was my turn to fire I said I would pass on shooting today. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 3:04:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: At least you saved money by shooting Questionable ammo! That's what sucks. It was issued match ammo. I would have paid extra for new mfg ammo. For now on I am going to bring my own ammo. I will walk before I am forced to use questionable ammo again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 3:06:35 PM EDT
[#14]
I posted a link to this in the M1-M14 Forum.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 3:23:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Wow!! [:O]
Thanks for the post! I’ve been using some Korean M-1 [b]Carbine[/b] ammo that seems to be pretty good. So I’ve been toying with the idea of also getting some of the 30-06. Scratch that!! I wouldn’t have said it was questionable ammo – I thought it was military issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 3:27:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I wouldn’t have said it was questionable ammo – I thought it was military issue. It is military issue. I say that now that I have had a chance to talk to people and learn this is not a new issue with the Korean ammo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 3:35:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: At least you saved money by shooting Questionable ammo! That's what sucks. It was issued match ammo. I would have paid extra for new mfg ammo. For now on I am going to bring my own ammo. I will walk before I am forced to use questionable ammo again. I'd take the digital photos to a pro-photo shop and get some super hi-res to drop in the Garand case. When you ever go to another match, just show them what some issued "questionable" ammo did to two guns... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 3:48:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At least you saved money by shooting Questionable ammo! That's what sucks. It was issued match ammo. I would have paid extra for new mfg ammo. For now on I am going to bring my own ammo. I will walk before I am forced to use questionable ammo again. I'd take the digital photos to a pro-photo shop and get some super hi-res to drop in the Garand case. When you ever go to another match, just show them what some issued "questionable" ammo did to two guns... Already in the works! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 8:57:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Glad you guys are o.k.
I saw similar results (back in the mid-80's) with FN .30-06 dating from the 1950's. It is why I now only use US or the Danish. It is not a surplus ammo issue it is simply the result of crappy ammo. Ya gotta eyeball the ammo you use, the dealers don't. I think a [red]permanent tack in the ammo forum [/red] is a good idea to get the word out about defective ammo (like this stuff) out there. Examples I could add are the Indian (loose bullets etc-never even tried to use it) .308 and the Albanian 7.62x54R (creased and split cases - used a few and returned it) The TZ .308 problem of splits into the extractor groove (tossed those). CBC .308 ammo has split too and I will never use that companies crap again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 9:02:16 PM EDT
[#20]
I got some Korean ammo at the house, going to check it when I get home.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/10/2004 10:23:18 PM EDT
[#21]
I has some Swedish 30-06 split the necks while being fed from a Garand clip. So I don't know what would have happened had I fired it. Was my small store of go-to 30-06 for years. Now scrap metal and fertilizer.
Just got some Korean at Turners for the Garand, gonna dig it up and unwrap it now. Wasn't going to guess I better. The Greek ammo sealed in the can may stay there though. Crud |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 12:00:41 AM EDT
[#22]
CMP has about 12 million rounds of surplus LC M2, less than $200/case of 1k rounds. Or you can buy Danish. Korean has been a known problem, it's all over the gun boards.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 12:31:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Since this ammo was handed out by the event holders, did they offer to pay in full for the replacement parts that were broken? This thread needs to be tacked in one forum or another, so it can be seen!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 5:39:20 AM EDT
[#24]
That is a bad deal, I,m glad that no one was hurt. The US Army refered to those as J-splits, a defect in the brass during the drawing process. When one (1 round) was discovered with a J-split, they scrapped the entire production lot. Perhaps, maybe, the Koreans did the same thing, but it was sold to some enterprising import company.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 7:39:01 AM EDT
[#25]
[size=3]A quality control manager who doesn't inspect the ammo going into his rifles?
Reading your profile with the master's degree in quality and being a professor teaching quality, this is downright funny since no one was hurt. One piece of QA advice, there is NO reason not to inspect and measure your match ammo. I have some TQC methodologies I can send you for your club.[/size=3] |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 7:47:28 AM EDT
[#26]
DAMN, glad you and your brother are OK....
I have some Korean garand ammo, that I will not be shooting, stuff was bad when I opened the cans, ammo all midewed and molded, cases coroded over, clips covered with rust, no way am I shooting that stuff now... It is Danish all the way for me... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 10:02:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: [size=3]A quality control manager who doesn't inspect the ammo going into his rifles? Reading your profile with the master's degree in quality and being a professor teaching quality, this is downright funny since no one was hurt. One piece of QA advice, there is NO reason not to inspect and measure your match ammo. I have some TQC methodologies I can send you for your club.[/size=3] stator He was at a match, you don't have time to inspect your ammo. These events have to move at a specific pace in order for the matches to finish at least somewhere near schedule. I do agree that the match holder should do a QC inspection on ammo that comes from the more questionable overseas places like Korea. I base this not only on QC's experience but numerous experiences including ones that I have had with Korean ammo. A while back I accidently ended up with a couple hundred rounds of Korean surplus. I trusted an ammo source locally that turned out to have lowered their standards and I didn't check the bandoliers I purchased ( their were several bandliers in a bag ) before I left the store. I DID a QC check on the ammo and I had to clean every single cartridge and the en blocs. I ended up scrapping almost a THIRD of the lot. However, even gaging the ammunition might not reveal defects in improperly drwan cartridge brass. This seems to be the issue that QC ran into. It is hardly his fault. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 10:26:21 AM EDT
[#28]
I've shot 400+ rounds of this stuff with no issue whatsoever. Through a bolt gun and a Garand. I'll keep a closer eye on the brass from now on though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 10:40:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: [size=3]A quality control manager who doesn't inspect the ammo going into his rifles? Reading your profile with the master's degree in quality and being a professor teaching quality, this is downright funny since no one was hurt. One piece of QA advice, there is NO reason not to inspect and measure your match ammo. I have some TQC methodologies I can send you for your club.[/size=3] I am glad you find it funny to bust my balls.[:K] I do not check the quality of my gasoline either but it does not mean I do not have a reasonable expectation that it will meet specifications. This was match ammunition. My expectation was the ammunition would be serviceable. It was our first match we ever attended at this club. My only experience has been at Camp Perry, Garand and Springfield Matches. Having an advanced degree in Quality and teaching at the college level will not prepare you for someone providing a product with a hidden flaw. Keep on smiling laughing boy, the next time you get a plugged gas filter remind me to bust your balls because you did not inspect it for particulate content. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 10:53:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Any idea of what Lot Number this stuff was? So far #'s 2-156 and 2-152 have split cases, according to the M1 forum over at Culver's.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 11:15:46 AM EDT
[#31]
A while back, the CMP ran out of Lake City, so they started selling Danish ammo, If I recall..
Anyhow, the Danish stuff is very accurate, if you can find it anymore. Our club ran out of Danish, and couldnt find anymore, so we bought Korean ammo. The stuff we have is headstamped KA 73, it comes on clips with bandoliers in an ammo can with funny writing.It shoots like Lake City, good enough to win a 200 yard match if you do your part. It is rumored that the stuff was made on Lake City equipment. Ocasionally, I spot a dented round or two, and you have to check for high rounds in your clips (you could loose a match if all of the rounds in the clip are not firmly seated to the back of the clip). Some of the rounds seem to have loosened from the enblock clips over the years. We have never had a problem with our Korean Ammo. This stuff seems to come from a few different arsenals. I have seen some stuff at gunshows, and a few guys showing up with thier own ammo, with the PS headstamp. I have only seen this stuff come in 20 round boxes, and it is usually nice and shiny. I have some brass marked PS 74 once fired from a guy who doesnt reload. I was set to reload it, but I guess I'll just send it to the scrap dealer. I have reloaded the KA 73 marked stuff with no problems. Heck, Ive reloaded brass from the early 40's with all of the wartime arsenal headstamps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 11:21:46 AM EDT
[#32]
I was going to pick up a can of Korean for my 1941 Winchester Garand. Not now though. [:o] I'll probably get some Danish or just buy boxes of Winchester white-box when I want to shoot it. (I won't be putting too many rounds through it anyway)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 11:45:50 AM EDT
[#33]
The Garand is pretty robust, and I think, aside from the stock, that it will be OK. Have it checked out thoroughly by someone who knows what they are doing.
Gen. Hatcher and the boys at Springfield Armory [b]tried[/b] to blow one up way back when. They stopped when the .30-'06 case, [i]filled completely[/i] with proof testing powder damaged the rifle a little worse than yours. After a few parts were replaced, the rifle was declared entirely serviceable. Just as an aside, I wonder if a synthetic stock would have split. No, I [b]won't[/b] try to find out. Glad nobody was hurt, for sure! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 12:43:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: The Garand is pretty robust, and I think, aside from the stock, that it will be OK. Have it checked out thoroughly by someone who knows what they are doing. Gen. Hatcher and the boys at Springfield Armory [b]tried[/b] to blow one up way back when. They stopped when the .30-'06 case, [i]filled completely[/i] with proof testing powder damaged the rifle a little worse than yours. After a few parts were replaced, the rifle was declared entirely serviceable. Just as an aside, I wonder if a synthetic stock would have split. No, I [b]won't[/b] try to find out. Glad nobody was hurt, for sure! Every thing checks out mechanically. The rifle met the design intent and the escaping gas compromised the stock. Not the action. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2004 1:09:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Hmm, I have 400 rounds of the PS-75 stuff. Ive fired most of it and havent had any problems (knock on wood). I will carefully inspect each cartrdige before loading them into Garand clips from now on. Thanks for the head's up and Im glad to hear everyone is ok.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2004 4:01:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Thanks for the info...
I wrote down the lot number and plan on checking out the reserve in a few minutes. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
