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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:57:25 PM EDT
I’m a glutton for punishment from gun manufactures. This is the 3rd pistol in 3 years (twice from Colt, now this Glock) that will have to go back to the manufacture, bought new.
Groupings were 8” @ 12 yards using 135gr Nosler and 200gr Montana Bullet Works. Moved COL out, in, tried the full powder charge as recommended by Hodgdon. All were absolute crap groups. Also tried different charges using different COLs. SAAMI:  Attached FileGlock Perfection.   Attached File Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:41:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: I ordered a KKM barrel last week but was contemplating sending the pistol to Glock but maybe wait. If the KKM shoots like crap, than it’s me. If it shoots well, I will update this thread. I run a KKM in my GLOCK 40 more so for the better chamber support, but it was more accurate than my factory barrel. Not by magnitudes, but better. I hope the KKM delivers for you! JT |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:46:51 AM EDT
[#2]
With pistols, you're looking for bang. If you're that worried about accuracy, spend the money for an accurate pistol. JMHO
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:47:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperX925: One would use an ID micrometer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperX925: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. One would use an ID micrometer. Really? For a .430" I.D.? Maybe a dial bore gauge that is first calibrated with an outside micrometer. People here nit-picking at OP's measuring tool/technique should realize that the degree of precision is perfectly acceptable for the application at hand. Even el-cheapo dial calipers are accurate within .001" or so. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:47:50 AM EDT
[#4]
I don’t know if you have a leg to stand on.
Reloads Unsubstantiated test procedure for establishing grouping |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:50:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Uh…. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/578900/IMG_4608_png-3162476.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By diesel1: Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. Uh…. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/578900/IMG_4608_png-3162476.JPG OK but very limited "reach" into a bore. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:00:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Really? For a .430" I.D.? Maybe a dial bore gauge that is first calibrated with an outside micrometer. People here nit-picking at OP's measuring tool/technique should realize that the degree of precision is perfectly acceptable for the application at hand. Even el-cheapo dial calipers are accurate within .001" or so. Well no, not if the variation you’re showing is .01 at the most. That could easily be a discrepancy due to using that tool in that bore, not the actual measurement being that far off. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:01:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: OK but very limited "reach" into a bore. Agree but Pretty similar reach to that caliper he’s using and certainly more accurate. Chamber appears tapered according to the SAAMI diagram anyways so it’s going to change with depth anyhow. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:07:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Has anyone pointed out yet that shooting reloads voids Glock's warranty?
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:09:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean: Has anyone pointed out yet that shooting reloads voids Glock's warranty? Eh. That’s a CYA in case you double charge and KB the gun. I’ve sent 2 Glocks in for warranty issues, both ran on reloads. They aren’t going to be able to tell if you’re running factory or reloaded ammo unless you blow the chamber up. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:30:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By rabidus: I’m a glutton for punishment from gun manufactures. This is the 3rd pistol in 3 years (twice from Colt, now this Glock) that will have to go back to the manufacture, bought new. Please elaborate on your Colt problems. Three pistols going back to the factory in three years makes me immediately think you're being overly critical, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. In thirty years I have literally had to send ONE firearm back to the factory. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:30:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: Glock uses a lot of CCI ammo for testing pistols. Yet you seem focused on loading the hottest ammo possible . Rarely is the hottest ammo the most accurate ammo. A barrel is not going to change much other than the fact that Glock does not recommend cast bullets in older generations. Is the barrel leaded ? Have you cleaned the gun ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: Originally Posted By rabidus: This sounds like the best answer. Do you know any true velocity 10mm ammo other than Buffalo bore? I know guns like different brands but any Glock 10mm owners chime in what ammo has worked well for them? 180gr like someone said as it has a large bearing surface. XTPs have shot well out of my Glocks, 1911, and CZ 75. Glock uses a lot of CCI ammo for testing pistols. Yet you seem focused on loading the hottest ammo possible . Rarely is the hottest ammo the most accurate ammo. A barrel is not going to change much other than the fact that Glock does not recommend cast bullets in older generations. Is the barrel leaded ? Have you cleaned the gun ? I want to load true 10mm and have it be accurate. I cleaned the gun after the leading while at the range. I will buy factory ammo. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:32:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: Glock 10mm barrels are notably inaccurate. That's why you see a heavy aftermarket presence from kkm and lone wolf. Nit sure about Gen 5. They might be better as they certainly were a great improvement in everything else. A number of prominent guntubers have noted this. That’s interesting I’ve never heard anybody say that from the vids I watched. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:36:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crusaderf8u: I would do as others have suggested any put a few boxes of factory ammo thru it. I have a Gen3 as well (20SF) and had two other builds prior. I’ve used PMC 180gr FMJ , which is basically 40 S&W velocity in a longer case and Underwood 200 and 135gr JHP and all function well and are accurate. There are simply to many variables when you’re basing your conclusions on reloads of a round you have no other firearm to compare results against. Regardless of what you perceive the chamber issues to be you have insufficient evidence to draw any conclusions. Is the hassle of ammo purchases why you avoided just buying some factory ammo to test with? If you’ve owned a 45-70 and just bought a 10mm but are concerned about the cost of ammo it seems a bit odd. As one who owns both and doesn’t reload I have little sympathy for folks that complain about the price of ammunition. Nothing personal just a statement. Hopefully the results will be satisfactory, and welcome to the 10mm owners society. Only bought 1 box of 45-70, reloaded the rest. Haven’t bought a box of 45acp in 15 years. That’s how I roll. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:38:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:39:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Lol, you defend yourself with a made up story Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By SemperGumbi: Originally Posted By rabidus: Never got an award for pistol. I was at MCRD or Pendleton back in ‘08 for an educator workshop. Got to shoot the simulator. It was fun, for the pistol range, one of the Marines asked if I needed a tutorial, told him, “thanks but I got it..” Started shooting, all shots were hitting COM and head shots. Ran 2-3 mags through it and the room got quieter, heads started to turn over, granted, these are teachers so not much to talk about. Got done. Stopped for a second, looked around and the entire room was watching me. A major and a colonel were watching and smiled. 2 young Marines pushed some teachers aside and said, we got this…they shot 1/2 a mag, shot like shit, and moved away from the line. A few people in the room said, “Damn” As I passed the officers, the Major gave me a nod. I don’t shoot competition, I’m sure many can beat me but at the range, I only met 1 other person who could outshoot me with a pistol, he won awards in the Army pistol competition. So I’m no Jerry Miculek by any stretch but I’m also not a slack jawed basement dweller. OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile.  GD, “Your groups suck because you cannot shoot!” “That’s rifle, where are your pistol scores?” “Some people should not own guns” “In all my years of teaching new shooters, it’s not the gun, it’s you.” “It’s the Indian, not the arrow” I then defend myself that I can shoot using real life examples. GD OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. You guys are insufferable. Lol, you defend yourself with a made up story No. True story.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:41:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dwb1987: I would put some factory ammo through it and have a friend try it too. This 100% I can't tell you how many times someone has told their gun is broken, the sights are bad, the ammo is bad, and what whatever else. They can't get it to shoot a group. I shoot it with the ammo they have and holy shit Batman on target almost 99% of the time. I do this with them standing next to me. I hand back the gun and say "it's you and not the gun". |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:41:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zephyr: It's a $30 caliper. And, it’s not a precise, reproducible way to measure an ID…. But….it’s GD, so…. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:41:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: Double Tap and Underwood for sure. Among ‘mainstream’ ammo-makers, Federal and Winchester are offering a couple of ‘heavy-n-fast’ 10mm loads. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022393638?pid=135158 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021558987?pid=674839 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026114215?pid=932299 The best answer is, get set up to reload if you really want to see what the cartridge. If you don’t reload, well, poors don’t do well in real 10mm-Landia. You gots to pay to play there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By curiomatic: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By curiomatic: If you want to know your Glock's chamber dimensions, you'll have to make a chamber casting with Cerrosafe or some similar product. Brownell's sells it. Glocks are built more for reliability than match accuracy. I'd be okay with a "loose" chamber if a bear was charging me. Maybe try a Gen5, G20 with the new and improved barrel? Was going to order cerrosafe but wanted to wait for the KKM barrel. Only Gen 3 Glocks are allowed in California unless I’m a LEO (which I’m not) I agree on loose chambers and reliability but after shooting great groups with pistols for years, I cannot accept 8” at 12 yards and no group whatso ever. Rounds land high, low, left, right and everything in between. You should establish your accuracy baseline with good factory ammo and work from there. When I shot matches with my 1911 where brass retrieval wasn't possible, I used Blazer aluminum case 45 ACP ammo, which worked well in my Colt Series 70. If your Glock doesn't shoot well with three or four brands of factory ammo, call Glock. This sounds like the best answer. Do you know any true velocity 10mm ammo other than Buffalo bore? Double Tap and Underwood for sure. Among ‘mainstream’ ammo-makers, Federal and Winchester are offering a couple of ‘heavy-n-fast’ 10mm loads. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022393638?pid=135158 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021558987?pid=674839 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026114215?pid=932299 The best answer is, get set up to reload if you really want to see what the cartridge. If you don’t reload, well, poors don’t do well in real 10mm-Landia. You gots to pay to play there. So I should reload?   Never change GD! |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:43:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By intheburbs: I hate customers like OP. Using your shitty-ass HF calipers to measure, claiming it's out of spec. Pray tell, how does a precision-machined piece get allegedly out of round by two thou?Also, I'm pretty sure accuracy isn't a warranty issue. Not even using factory ammo as a baseline? And it's happened three times? Twice with Colt? If I was Glock, I'd take back the pistol, issue a refund, and send OP over to HK or Sig. Never shot the Colt, barrels looked like this. Got my money back and got a beretta 1301. Which works perfectly btw.  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:44:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoPurposeFlour: Stock Glock triggers are fine. If you can't shoot accurately on a stock glock, your trigger control and press sucks. I agree. Many people think Glocks shoot paper plate sized groups at 25 yards because they are used to a 1911 trigger, though. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:44:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zpduff: Lmao. Did you seriously post a picture of your Appleseed target? That stuff is for kids to learn how to shoot. Getting rifleman rank at Appleseed is extremely easy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zpduff: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By GreatWaputi: Not everyone should own guns https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0110_jpeg-3162257.JPG Lmao. Did you seriously post a picture of your Appleseed target? That stuff is for kids to learn how to shoot. Getting rifleman rank at Appleseed is extremely easy. Did you get one? |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:46:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By youngandfree: You didn't answer the question on how factory ammo shoots. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By youngandfree: Originally Posted By rabidus: Not flinching. Shoot 12ga slugs, 338LM, 45-70, full power 45 ACP+p no problemo. You didn't answer the question on how factory ammo shoots. Didn’t buy factory, bought 1200 pieces of brass and bullets to reload. Shot two different bullet weights but the gun did not like any of them. Usually guns will like 1 or the other. Not this one. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:48:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Please elaborate on your Colt problems. Three pistols going back to the factory in three years makes me immediately think you're being overly critical, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. In thirty years I have literally had to send ONE firearm back to the factory. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Originally Posted By rabidus: I’m a glutton for punishment from gun manufactures. This is the 3rd pistol in 3 years (twice from Colt, now this Glock) that will have to go back to the manufacture, bought new. Please elaborate on your Colt problems. Three pistols going back to the factory in three years makes me immediately think you're being overly critical, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. In thirty years I have literally had to send ONE firearm back to the factory.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:55:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Other option is to try some other weights, I did a good bit of load development for a G20.4 and it preferred the more milquetoast 165 thru 180gr projectiles.
I would try factory loads and some more projectiles before writing the gun "off" |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 10:56:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By green_bullet: The 0.00045 variance on either end from the theoretical cartridge is to account for different manufactuers? Chamber has to physically be bigger than the cartridge if only by a hair, as it is not a close slip-fit That's almost four thousandths, not ten thousandths. About 3 hairs, total, actually. I'd say that is a loose chamber, if your calipers are correct. Inexpensive calipers are notorious for ID readings being off. Do you have any known ID to use as a master? |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:00:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Lol epic thread.
Op refuses to buy a few boxes of inexpensive factory ammo to rule out his poor reloads. Op creates new epic copy pasta. This thread keeps on giving. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:01:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: That’s interesting I’ve never heard anybody say that from the vids I watched. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By shotar: Glock 10mm barrels are notably inaccurate. That's why you see a heavy aftermarket presence from kkm and lone wolf. Nit sure about Gen 5. They might be better as they certainly were a great improvement in everything else. A number of prominent guntubers have noted this. That’s interesting I’ve never heard anybody say that from the vids I watched. I agree, that’s a dumb generalization from a dubious source. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:04:39 AM EDT
[#28]
That is one of those new 10MM SUPER Glocks.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:07:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Really? For a .430" I.D.? Maybe a dial bore gauge that is first calibrated with an outside micrometer. People here nit-picking at OP's measuring tool/technique should realize that the degree of precision is perfectly acceptable for the application at hand. Even el-cheapo dial calipers are accurate within .001" or so. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By SuperX925: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. One would use an ID micrometer. Really? For a .430" I.D.? Maybe a dial bore gauge that is first calibrated with an outside micrometer. People here nit-picking at OP's measuring tool/technique should realize that the degree of precision is perfectly acceptable for the application at hand. Even el-cheapo dial calipers are accurate within .001" or so. I’m going on the assumption that you are not familiar with micrometers and calipers. A three point ID micrometer will be able to precisely measure the diameter of that chamber at any point in that chamber. Using the calipers OP is using it is very easy to get inconsistent results regardless of the quality of the tool. Add in the low cost tool and you could easily get +/- .005” variance. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:08:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bophades45]
[#30]
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:11:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mudholestomper]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: That's almost four thousandths, not ten thousandths. About 3 hairs, total, actually. I'd say that is a loose chamber, if your calipers are correct. Inexpensive calipers are notorious for ID readings being off. Do you have any known ID to use as a master? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By green_bullet: The 0.00045 variance on either end from the theoretical cartridge is to account for different manufactuers? Chamber has to physically be bigger than the cartridge if only by a hair, as it is not a close slip-fit That's almost four thousandths, not ten thousandths. About 3 hairs, total, actually. I'd say that is a loose chamber, if your calipers are correct. Inexpensive calipers are notorious for ID readings being off. Do you have any known ID to use as a master? 0.00045 is 45 ten thousandths. Almost four thousandths? If a positive number starts with a four followed by a 5, it’s more than four. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:11:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperX925: You may be a very skilled shooter. You may know what you are doing behind the loading bench. But you don’t have a clue about QC or what is critical for accuracy. You are measuring the ID of a chamber with a cheap POS digital caliper. Never mind that a caliper is not the best way to do that. You are using junk equipment. And that dimension is pretty meaningless to group sizes. It is just too close to be causing your groups. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperX925: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By slappomatt: I mean its a pocket 10mm glock. what did you expect? sub moa? My two 19s get this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_8072_jpeg-3162228.JPG (1 flyer as I got excited on the 5th shot) Recent 1911 load development https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_9628_jpeg-3162229.JPG I’m not flinching, it does not recoil that much. You may be a very skilled shooter. You may know what you are doing behind the loading bench. But you don’t have a clue about QC or what is critical for accuracy. You are measuring the ID of a chamber with a cheap POS digital caliper. Never mind that a caliper is not the best way to do that. You are using junk equipment. And that dimension is pretty meaningless to group sizes. It is just too close to be causing your groups. Checked these just for grins. I think my tools are probably close enough. That's a .392 pin which is actually .3918. Cartridges were all within a couple tenths. So, pretty close to .0015/side clearance on this pistol and this ammo.  Attached FileCZ P07 goes in about .080 further, so a smidge bigger than the glock.  Attached FileBut, none of that matters compared to OPs pic because calipers aren't adequate for this. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:13:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: atblis]
[#33]
Could also order pin gauges. 0.430” would be $5.
Edit: Dang it. Beat by a minute. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:18:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: What’s a rifle qualification test got to do with a handgun? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: What’s a rifle qualification test got to do with a handgun? As much as the stupid attempt to be edgy with the statement about owning guns. GD bull shit. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:19:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: No. True story. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_8888_jpeg-3162567.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By SemperGumbi: Originally Posted By rabidus: Never got an award for pistol. I was at MCRD or Pendleton back in ‘08 for an educator workshop. Got to shoot the simulator. It was fun, for the pistol range, one of the Marines asked if I needed a tutorial, told him, “thanks but I got it..” Started shooting, all shots were hitting COM and head shots. Ran 2-3 mags through it and the room got quieter, heads started to turn over, granted, these are teachers so not much to talk about. Got done. Stopped for a second, looked around and the entire room was watching me. A major and a colonel were watching and smiled. 2 young Marines pushed some teachers aside and said, we got this…they shot 1/2 a mag, shot like shit, and moved away from the line. A few people in the room said, “Damn” As I passed the officers, the Major gave me a nod. I don’t shoot competition, I’m sure many can beat me but at the range, I only met 1 other person who could outshoot me with a pistol, he won awards in the Army pistol competition. So I’m no Jerry Miculek by any stretch but I’m also not a slack jawed basement dweller. OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. GD, “Your groups suck because you cannot shoot!” “That’s rifle, where are your pistol scores?” “Some people should not own guns” “In all my years of teaching new shooters, it’s not the gun, it’s you.” “It’s the Indian, not the arrow” I then defend myself that I can shoot using real life examples. GD OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. You guys are insufferable. Lol, you defend yourself with a made up story No. True story. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_8888_jpeg-3162567.JPG I don’t see a group of generals standing and watching in awe of your shooting ability like the story. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:22:00 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: As much as the stupid attempt to be edgy with the statement about owning guns. GD bull shit. Agree there, I don't think there's anything wrong with the OP owning guns, but he might need more practice as well as an education on how to measure things(I'm not a machinist and I can see his method isn't going to give accurate or repeatable results). 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:22:22 AM EDT
[#37]
@rabidus
If you want a cheaper factory ammo with true 10mm Auto ballistics look for some Sig Sauer 10mm Auto Elite 180gr. FMJ. Academy around here carries it. It is advertised at 1250fps which is solid 10mm Auto ammo. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:23:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: No. True story. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_8888_jpeg-3162567.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By SemperGumbi: Originally Posted By rabidus: Never got an award for pistol. I was at MCRD or Pendleton back in '08 for an educator workshop. Got to shoot the simulator. It was fun, for the pistol range, one of the Marines asked if I needed a tutorial, told him, "thanks but I got it.." Started shooting, all shots were hitting COM and head shots. Ran 2-3 mags through it and the room got quieter, heads started to turn over, granted, these are teachers so not much to talk about. Got done. Stopped for a second, looked around and the entire room was watching me. A major and a colonel were watching and smiled. 2 young Marines pushed some teachers aside and said, we got this they shot 1/2 a mag, shot like shit, and moved away from the line. A few people in the room said, "Damn" As I passed the officers, the Major gave me a nod. I don't shoot competition, I'm sure many can beat me but at the range, I only met 1 other person who could outshoot me with a pistol, he won awards in the Army pistol competition. So I'm no Jerry Miculek by any stretch but I'm also not a slack jawed basement dweller. OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. GD, "Your groups suck because you cannot shoot!" "That's rifle, where are your pistol scores?" "Some people should not own guns" "In all my years of teaching new shooters, it's not the gun, it's you." "It's the Indian, not the arrow" I then defend myself that I can shoot using real life examples. GD OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. You guys are insufferable. Lol, you defend yourself with a made up story No. True story. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_8888_jpeg-3162567.JPG ISMT certified expert, bro! And a Major nodded at me. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:24:08 AM EDT
[#39]
How do the two fires cases that came with the gun look? They still come with two fired cases?
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:26:31 AM EDT
[#40]
I just check the OEM barrels chamber of my Glock 29.
Same as OPs, using a manual hornady caliper: .434, and it shoots fine. The accuracy issue is with OP or his reloads. Does OP get a bulge at the base of the fired brass? |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:29:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mudholestomper: 0.00045 is 45 ten thousandths. Almost four thousandths? If a positive number starts with a four followed by a 5, it’s more than four. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mudholestomper: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By green_bullet: The 0.00045 variance on either end from the theoretical cartridge is to account for different manufactuers? Chamber has to physically be bigger than the cartridge if only by a hair, as it is not a close slip-fit That's almost four thousandths, not ten thousandths. About 3 hairs, total, actually. I'd say that is a loose chamber, if your calipers are correct. Inexpensive calipers are notorious for ID readings being off. Do you have any known ID to use as a master? 0.00045 is 45 ten thousandths. Almost four thousandths? If a positive number starts with a four followed by a 5, it’s more than four. LOL. I have a handle on measurement in thousandths of an inch. Go back and read the measurement OP posted and the nominal cartridge dimension. It is almost .008 different. The poster I quoted listed .00045 per side difference. It should have been .004 depending on which dimension set was used as the calipers were showing different ones. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 11:48:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mudholestomper: 0.00045 is 45 ten thousandths. Almost four thousandths? If a positive number starts with a four followed by a 5, it’s more than four. He's saying it should read .0045 not .00045. The other guy did his reading or math wrong. I am assuming he read the two numbers at either end of the chamber dimensions(My guess is that it's slightly tapered). |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:02:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: diesel1]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperX925: I’m going on the assumption that you are not familiar with micrometers and calipers. A three point ID micrometer will be able to precisely measure the diameter of that chamber at any point in that chamber. Using the calipers OP is using it is very easy to get inconsistent results regardless of the quality of the tool. Add in the low cost tool and you could easily get +/- .005” variance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperX925: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By SuperX925: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. One would use an ID micrometer. Really? For a .430" I.D.? Maybe a dial bore gauge that is first calibrated with an outside micrometer. People here nit-picking at OP's measuring tool/technique should realize that the degree of precision is perfectly acceptable for the application at hand. Even el-cheapo dial calipers are accurate within .001" or so. I’m going on the assumption that you are not familiar with micrometers and calipers. A three point ID micrometer will be able to precisely measure the diameter of that chamber at any point in that chamber. Using the calipers OP is using it is very easy to get inconsistent results regardless of the quality of the tool. Add in the low cost tool and you could easily get +/- .005” variance. Um....yeah, OK, whatever. Regardless, we're "splitting hairs" here when it seems obvious that OP's problem IS NOT chamber size related. Seems to me that the bullet/barrel relationship would be the key factor in accuracy or lack thereof. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:06:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rb889: Gun prints 8” at 12 yards. GD: “Lol OP suxorz, git gud scrub!” Typical. The gun doesn’t shoot that bad. The combo of the shooter, the reloads and the gun could possibly shoot that bad. However OP didn’t even post a pic of the target. This might be an epic troll. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: huntsky]
[#45]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:18:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Only bought 1 box of 45-70, reloaded the rest. Haven’t bought a box of 45acp in 15 years. That’s how I roll. And if you’re able, there’s nothing wrong with that. But drawing conclusions based on insufficient evidence (reloads only with Bo factory ammo if a round you are unfamiliar with) seems to be the issue. Even with CA prices a couple different boxes of factory 10mm is going to give you much more useful data than a KKM barrel will for less investment. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:22:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Never got an award for pistol. I was at MCRD or Pendleton back in '08 for an educator workshop. Got to shoot the simulator. It was fun, for the pistol range, one of the Marines asked if I needed a tutorial, told him, "thanks but I got it.." Started shooting, all shots were hitting COM and head shots. Ran 2-3 mags through it and the room got quieter, heads started to turn over, granted, these are teachers so not much to talk about. Got done. Stopped for a second, looked around and the entire room was watching me. A major and a colonel were watching and smiled. 2 young Marines pushed some teachers aside and said, we got this they shot 1/2 a mag, shot like shit, and moved away from the line. A few people in the room said, "Damn" As I passed the officers, the Major gave me a nod. I don't shoot competition, I'm sure many can beat me but at the range, I only met 1 other person who could outshoot me with a pistol, he won awards in the Army pistol competition. So I'm no Jerry Miculek by any stretch but I'm also not a slack jawed basement dweller.  You're delusional. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:24:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Well, it is a glock.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:26:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Try some of you 40SW 180Gn reloads in it.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 12:28:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: LOL. I have a handle on measurement in thousandths of an inch. Go back and read the measurement OP posted and the nominal cartridge dimension. It is almost .008 different. The poster I quoted listed .00045 per side difference. It should have been .004 depending on which dimension set was used as the calipers were showing different ones. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By mudholestomper: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By green_bullet: The 0.00045 variance on either end from the theoretical cartridge is to account for different manufactuers? Chamber has to physically be bigger than the cartridge if only by a hair, as it is not a close slip-fit That's almost four thousandths, not ten thousandths. About 3 hairs, total, actually. I'd say that is a loose chamber, if your calipers are correct. Inexpensive calipers are notorious for ID readings being off. Do you have any known ID to use as a master? 0.00045 is 45 ten thousandths. Almost four thousandths? If a positive number starts with a four followed by a 5, it’s more than four. LOL. I have a handle on measurement in thousandths of an inch. Go back and read the measurement OP posted and the nominal cartridge dimension. It is almost .008 different. The poster I quoted listed .00045 per side difference. It should have been .004 depending on which dimension set was used as the calipers were showing different ones. Weird how you’re so great with accuracy but want to LOL when you remove the context of what you’re quoting and say something that’s incorrect in response to what you didn’t include in your quote. I responded (correctly) to the information that you included in your post. You responded incorrectly to the information that you included in your post. Wait…the “I have a handle on measurements” guy isn’t expecting us to assume anything from the information he didn’t include, right? |
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