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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:17:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher]
Since abortion seems to be the topic of the day, let me pose this question.
I think most of us can agree that abortion is disgusting and abstinence or contraception is preferable, but this thread is about reality, not your personal morals. Quick googling informs me that there are 500k - 1,500k abortions a year in the US, while there are 50k - 100k adoptions in the US per year. Feel free to correct my numbers. We can also agree that the adoption process in the US needs reform, but we’re still talking about at best, a surplus of 400k unwanted babies. So what do we do with these children? Force them on the parent(s) that didn’t want them? Force them on pro-lifers? Cheap labor? Child super soldiers? Put them in prison or mental institutions where they will inevitable end up? FWIW, I’ve known many families that adopted, and in almost all of those cases, the child was serious messed up for life due to lack of love and affection in the infant stage. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:16:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aplomado: What will we do with the unwanted children? The same thing we did with them when abortion was illegal. Take care of them, instead of killing them. Back when abortion was illegal, only a small percentage of American children were bastards, oddly enough. Back when abortion was illegal, America was a very different place. Ya'll do know that just like everything else the government bans, making abortions illegal won't stop women from getting abortions, right? It also won't change a goddamn thing about how a certain segment of our population treats sex and the prospect of parenthood. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:18:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Denwad: Piccolo i know you're a well respected member here. But this is ridiculous. If this is true, you shouldn't do that. If it isn't true, it's not funny. That's where you're wrong. That is funny as hell, true or not. As far as the OP. No welfare money for new kids. Bring back orphanages. Then 4 years in service or college. Yes that would cost the tax payer. I think it would be a better investment than paying welfare moms to crank out new fodder for the prison system. You would instead be investing in higher quality, productive citizens, on average. If they dont work out, then abort them. That way, the fetus is given a chance and a choice, and a pathway to success. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:20:00 AM EDT
[#3]
First of all, farming equipment is very expensive for the low skill required. We don't need illegals to pick our agricultural crops if we have natural born citizens to do it.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:20:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: So force a woman to birth a kid she doesn’t want, or likely lacks the means and ability to raise herself, and then take away any financial safety net helping her to do so. Sounds like a great plan. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By mike240: This. Too many women have been using their lady parts like an ATM at taxpayers expense for too long. So force a woman to birth a kid she doesn’t want, or likely lacks the means and ability to raise herself, and then take away any financial safety net helping her to do so. Sounds like a great plan. Backwards. Take away the financial carrot to make babies. You have generational dependence on the money train for making babies. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:20:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: macros73]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stumpy89: Unborn humans, they do not have rights. There it is. If you really think you are winning points here you are not. Human babies are not statistically viable outside the womb in realistic numbers until 22 weeks. I am perfectly fine with abortion up to 12-16 weeks as the majority of Americans. If you really think it would be cool for your wife/sister/mother to be pregnant in their late 40's and early 50's and not have the option to abort you are either lying to yourself in order for ideological purity. Abortion does not effect on a daily basis, it really does not, no matter how you spin it, it just doesn't. What effects me is constant encroachment upon personal liberties, taxation, govt spending, and regulations. Some of these things right wing nuts love, some the left wing nuts love. Freedom.... Jane's abortion does not affect me. Uncle Joe wanting to tax me effects me. Do not tell other how to live when it doesn't impact you. Simple. Easy. What you can control. Opposition to abortion is primarily founded on religious principles. The soul exists instantly, and therefore, aborting even a zygote is the exact same thing as murdering a child or adult. Many feel they need to constantly push their religious beliefs on others to prove how much they love their God. House Republicans would like to define "personhood" as originating at the moment of conception, and use the 14th Amendment to ban abortion nationally. --- https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2024/01/19/u-s-house-speaker-mike-johnson-rallies-with-anti-abortion-advocates-at-march-for-life/ Johnson is one of the 119 co-sponsors on a bill from West Virginia GOP Rep. Alex Mooney that would define life as beginning at conception. The measure is just three pages long and states that if enacted, it would “implement equal protection for the right to life of each born and preborn human person” and use Congress’ authority to declare “that the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human being.” ---- This is also supported by conservative groups: https://www.heritage.org/life/report/can-the-fourteenth-amendment-be-used-protect-human-life-birth https://fedsoc.org/commentary/fedsoc-blog/yes-congress-has-constitutional-authority-to-protect-unborn-children |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:22:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul_Sothern: There are zero healthy white babies lingering in an orphanage unable to be matched with qualified loving adoptive parents. Generally they are signed for long before they are even born. Prospective parents will cheerfully pay all the medical bills involved and probably cough up under the table money. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:23:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Back when abortion was illegal, America was a very different place. Ya'll do know that just like everything else the government bans, making abortions illegal won't stop women from getting abortions, right? It also won't change a goddamn thing about how a certain segment of our population treats sex and the prospect of parenthood. You are correct. The main impacts will be increased suffering by women seeking abortions, increased crime and suffering in general, and smug feelgoodism by religious Karens. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:24:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE: Perfect example of Republicans "protect the fetus and abandoning the child". Same goes for the mother right? Cut off all funding and let her and the child suffer due to one poor decision. Then when they both develop mental illness screw them over again by not providing any funding to help the mentally ill...but keep blaming them for all the problems they cause. A lot of half way thought through ideas here. Orphanage. No welfare. Mom can starve if she is too sorry to work. If you give something away, there will be a line for it. What right does another adult have to my earnings? Paying for orphanages and education still sucks but is the better investment and lesser evil. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:25:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Riply21: Look at the demographics of who gets abortions. crime will skyrocket 10-15 years after an abortion ban. I keep reading this and it probably is true. That said, I will bet there are a surprisingly significant number of people here who would not be alive if abortion was more the norm years ago because either they or one of their parents would have been aborted. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:27:37 AM EDT
[#10]
People keep saying birth control. It isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies people make it out to be. More than half of people who seek an abortion were using birth control. People don’t think failure rates be like they is, but they do.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:28:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE: And people wonder why Republicans have the reputation of being cold and uncaring towards others. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWIRE: Originally Posted By FlamingDragon: Actually cut all gov. spending for welfare, food stamps, homeless, no more FSA. And people wonder why Republicans have the reputation of being cold and uncaring towards others. Paying for someone's misspent life and securing their dependence on government in order to buy their vote is magnitudes more evil than making them independent. You're spouting leftist talking points and ignoring human nature. Those appalachian hollers full of government dependent drunks will never better themselves because they dont have to. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:29:20 AM EDT
[#12]
One very fatal readily transmitted STD takes care of this question. Where has fauci been lately?
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:29:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: I honestly don't believe you've thought that one through vey well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Originally Posted By FlamingDragon: Actually cut all gov. spending for welfare, food stamps, homeless, no more FSA. I have. It would be fucking brutal for a while. The herd would be culled on multiple fronts. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:34:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macros73: You are correct. The main impacts will be increased suffering by women seeking abortions, increased crime and suffering in general, and smug feelgoodism by religious Karens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macros73: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Back when abortion was illegal, America was a very different place. Ya'll do know that just like everything else the government bans, making abortions illegal won't stop women from getting abortions, right? It also won't change a goddamn thing about how a certain segment of our population treats sex and the prospect of parenthood. You are correct. The main impacts will be increased suffering by women seeking abortions, increased crime and suffering in general, and smug feelgoodism by religious Karens. If we returned to Biblical Patriarchy women would suffer less and crime would be nonexistent as we would void the social contract and outlaw taxation. As long as we flaunt His will we will endure the pain of our sins. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:36:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: I have. It would be fucking brutal for a while. The herd would be culled on multiple fronts. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By runcible: Originally Posted By FlamingDragon: Actually cut all gov. spending for welfare, food stamps, homeless, no more FSA. I have. It would be fucking brutal for a while. The herd would be culled on multiple fronts. God I can't wait. This world needs another plague, but better than the one Fauci made. A real one. And fuck fauci for killing three of my friends. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:37:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Prison. Read up because it’s true.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:38:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AT-ST83: Crime increases 2x-4x about 18-25 years from now. Every politician wanted to credit the rapid fall of crime in the 90's to updated policing policies. But, there is a very good, data driven argument that credits it to Roe vs Wade in 1973. All the "unwanted" children that were never born would have been 18-25 years old in the 90's; that is the statistical sweet spot for young males to commit crime. Lol... two to four TIMES? |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:40:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Pros:
Decreased need for illegal immigrants Larger taxpayer base for social security "Fix" to our population crisis Increased babies available for adoption Cons: Potential increase in crime Potential increase in deadbeat dads Increase in liberal voting base More welfare for loser moms |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:41:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: Would they? Are there really that many families willing to adopt based on charity or lack of fertility? I seriously doubt it. Probably more than you think. Adopting a baby is hard and expensive. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:43:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: C3H5N3O9]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: Lol... two to four TIMES? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: Originally Posted By AT-ST83: Crime increases 2x-4x about 18-25 years from now. Every politician wanted to credit the rapid fall of crime in the 90's to updated policing policies. But, there is a very good, data driven argument that credits it to Roe vs Wade in 1973. All the "unwanted" children that were never born would have been 18-25 years old in the 90's; that is the statistical sweet spot for young males to commit crime. Lol... two to four TIMES? Most crime is due to a small number of violent repeat offenders. Adding a few more criminals dramatically increases the number of crimes committed. ETA: 4x sounds a bit too high, but 2x sounds about right. We went from ~10 homicides per 100k in the 70s-80s to 5 homicides per 100k in the 2000s. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:44:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C3H5N3O9: People keep saying birth control. It isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies people make it out to be. More than half of people who seek an abortion were using birth control. People don’t think failure rates be like they is, but they do. https://www.acog.org/-/media/project/acog/acogorg/womens-health/images/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods.jpg failure rates may only approach those numbers because those people are fucking retarded. herp "I didn't take my bc pill for the last two months" is counted towards those failure rates. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:44:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: If we returned to Biblical Patriarchy women would suffer less and crime would be nonexistent as we would void the social contract and outlaw taxation. As long as we flaunt His will we will endure the pain of our sins. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:52:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: failure rates may only approach those numbers because those people are fucking retarded. herp "I didn't take my bc pill for the last two months" is counted towards those failure rates. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: People keep saying birth control. It isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies people make it out to be. More than half of people who seek an abortion were using birth control. People don’t think failure rates be like they is, but they do. https://www.acog.org/-/media/project/acog/acogorg/womens-health/images/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods.jpg failure rates may only approach those numbers because those people are fucking retarded. herp "I didn't take my bc pill for the last two months" is counted towards those failure rates. Right, but since no one is proposing to kill all the retarded people, the solutions proposed should reflect the realities of the people that will implement them. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:59:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: iwouldntknow]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Right, but since no one is proposing to kill all the retarded people, the solutions proposed should reflect the realities of the people that will implement them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: People keep saying birth control. It isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies people make it out to be. More than half of people who seek an abortion were using birth control. People don’t think failure rates be like they is, but they do. https://www.acog.org/-/media/project/acog/acogorg/womens-health/images/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods.jpg failure rates may only approach those numbers because those people are fucking retarded. herp "I didn't take my bc pill for the last two months" is counted towards those failure rates. Right, but since no one is proposing to kill all the retarded people, the solutions proposed should reflect the realities of the people that will implement them. We really should reconsider A Modest Proposal. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:02:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Right, but since no one is proposing to kill all the retarded people, the solutions proposed should reflect the realities of the people that will implement them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: People keep saying birth control. It isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies people make it out to be. More than half of people who seek an abortion were using birth control. People don’t think failure rates be like they is, but they do. https://www.acog.org/-/media/project/acog/acogorg/womens-health/images/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods.jpg failure rates may only approach those numbers because those people are fucking retarded. herp "I didn't take my bc pill for the last two months" is counted towards those failure rates. Right, but since no one is proposing to kill all the retarded people, the solutions proposed should reflect the realities of the people that will implement them. Not kill them per se. But at least stop cockblocking Darwin so hard. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:06:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: People keep saying birth control. It isn’t the solution to unwanted pregnancies people make it out to be. More than half of people who seek an abortion were using birth control. People don’t think failure rates be like they is, but they do. https://www.acog.org/-/media/project/acog/acogorg/womens-health/images/infographics/effectiveness-of-birth-control-methods.jpg failure rates may only approach those numbers because those people are fucking retarded. herp "I didn't take my bc pill for the last two months" is counted towards those failure rates. Right, but since no one is proposing to kill all the retarded people, the solutions proposed should reflect the realities of the people that will implement them. We really should reconsider A Modest Proposal. No more evil than killing them in the womb and selling the parts. Just more visible. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:29:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: Would they? Are there really that many families willing to adopt based on charity or lack of fertility? I seriously doubt it. In my very personal experience, yes. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:32:12 AM EDT
[#28]
State Owned Army
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:34:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Backwards. Take away the financial carrot to make babies. You have generational dependence on the money train for making babies. I’d prefer to financially incentivize voluntary sterilization. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:37:18 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Stupid people don’t use it. We met a Latina who has 9 kids from different men. Met a Hispanic dude with about 8 kids from several women. What's unfortunate is those kids have little to no chance of making it to a reasonable middle class life. Way, way back I was drinking Oso Negro with my wife's Grandfather. He was a sheep shearer "jefe" for a crew. One of his friends came over, and was very sad/depressed. His 14 year old son had a pregnant girlfriend. He recognized the kids future was fucked. Why the fuck we can't promote pregnancy prevention. The three P's. movement has been born. Paladin |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:37:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Backwards. Take away the financial carrot to make babies. You have generational dependence on the money train for making babies. But again, for those in the “the baby did nothing wrong, it’s an innocent human” camp, it seems a bit hypocritical to force the mom to deliver a kid she can’t care for, while also urging that we stop funding the support mechanisms in place. And then, complain about the entirely predictable outcomes. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:48:41 AM EDT
[#32]
Interesting opinions on this sensitive topic. Many seem very one sided views from a position of negligence on the mother's part.
As someone who has been close to someone that was violated by a family member resulting in pregnancy I can say many are lucky to not have to contemplate this situation and only pass judgement on those engaging in "casual sex" and it's consequence. Take a moment as you ponder your view of abortion and be thankful you haven't lived thru the horror of some of the most horrible situations and choices that some have had to make. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:50:47 AM EDT
[#33]
I read an article that said since Roe v Wade was enacted in 1973, about 50 million babies have been aborted. Also, since 1973 about 48 million immigrants have come into the USA. Hmmm.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:58:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: But again, for those in the “the baby did nothing wrong, it’s an innocent human” camp, it seems a bit hypocritical to force the mom to deliver a kid she can’t care for, while also urging that we stop funding the support mechanisms in place. And then, complain about the entirely predictable outcomes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Backwards. Take away the financial carrot to make babies. You have generational dependence on the money train for making babies. But again, for those in the “the baby did nothing wrong, it’s an innocent human” camp, it seems a bit hypocritical to force the mom to deliver a kid she can’t care for, while also urging that we stop funding the support mechanisms in place. And then, complain about the entirely predictable outcomes. Those support mechanisms go to pay for mom's weed, cigs, and alcohol. Not for the betterment of the kid. I get the intent. Leftists don't get the reality. Same as they don't get the dynamic reality of raising things like capital gains tax and money to the government decreases. These people don't make good decisions, and are incapable of raising a successful human (in general) because they don't know how. They were the product of ignorant/lazy/stupid/addicted parents. It's a cycle. Handing unwed moms more money does not help the problem. Doing the same thing and expecting different outcome is the definition of .... So, stop the incentive to make babies to increase income. All for monetary incentive to sterilize. Combine with no money for extra babies, this would be even more enticing to them. Orphanages worked. Of course there are horror stories, same as (but less so) than foster care. Foster care attracts people same way paying for extra babies does. Some are in it for the money. Can't take care of your kid or pay their way? Tax dollars are "paying for them now anyway" why not let "professional parents" attempt to give the kid a shot at decent life in society? Some problems only have bad and less bad solutions. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:02:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cmikul: Interesting opinions on this sensitive topic. Many seem very one sided views from a position of negligence on the mother's part. As someone who has been close to someone that was violated by a family member resulting in pregnancy I can say many are lucky to not have to contemplate this situation and only pass judgement on those engaging in "casual sex" and it's consequence. Take a moment as you ponder your view of abortion and be thankful you haven't lived thru the horror of some of the most horrible situations and choices that some have had to make. That is a horrible circumstance. It is a rare circumstance and should not enter the debate on general abortion. For that person, the course of action should have been decided between her, her parents (presuming dad wasn't the culprit) and their doctor. Government has no place in that except to send cops to arrest the offender. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:13:22 PM EDT
[#36]
I could care less if people voluntarily kill their own offspring. My concern is the eventual forced abortion which would surely follow.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:16:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sir_Sparhawk: We live in a gynocentric society. Giving fathers the choice to waive their parental rights will never happen. Every time a child support payment is made in this country the state/county where it happens gets a cut of the payment. The government will never end something that generates the amount of revenue that child support payments generate for them. They know that men work more and make more money than women. That's why judges love giving custody of children to the mothers. Even if the mothers are absolute pieces of shit who should have no contact with their children. It has absolutely nothing to do with what's best for the children. The men paying child support will generate more revenue than if custody were awarded the other way around. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sir_Sparhawk: Originally Posted By MMcfpd: Abortion is not going to be banned in the country as a whole. Thoughts I've had as to how to address the tsunami of fatherless children (Abortion Rights Revisited). We live in a gynocentric society. Giving fathers the choice to waive their parental rights will never happen. Every time a child support payment is made in this country the state/county where it happens gets a cut of the payment. The government will never end something that generates the amount of revenue that child support payments generate for them. They know that men work more and make more money than women. That's why judges love giving custody of children to the mothers. Even if the mothers are absolute pieces of shit who should have no contact with their children. It has absolutely nothing to do with what's best for the children. The men paying child support will generate more revenue than if custody were awarded the other way around. The gist of it is if a woman knows upfront dad's not on the hook for support she'll not be likely to do the single mother thing. It would likely produce an initial upsurge in abortions, but the hope is that family planning might take hold. There are problems with it, and if you have a better idea please share. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:22:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Imagine if we fought as hard for our gun rights as some of you do for someone's imagined "right" to murder babies
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SavedByTheBlood]
[#39]
What makes you think it would result lots of unwanted children? Your argument is based on an assumption. You have no supporting evidence that a 100% ban on abortion will result in massive amounts of unwanted children that would be a burden on society.
I think it’s just as reasonable to assume we wouldn’t have many at all because men would start getting hit with that court ordered child support and would have think twice about who they stick it in. Making people accountable and responsible for their actions has never hurt society. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:24:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Ever see universal soldier?
We do that. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:28:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: But again, for those in the "the baby did nothing wrong, it's an innocent human" camp, it seems a bit hypocritical to force the mom to deliver a kid she can't care for, while also urging that we stop funding the support mechanisms in place. And then, complain about the entirely predictable outcomes. A society that saw abortion for what it is, an evil abomination, would also be the same society that would care for "unplanned pregnancies" on the local level via churches, charity groups, and foster and adoption placement, drastically reducing the need for public programs. Public programs are meant to be temporary, but for most it's their way of life gaming the system for indefinite support and $15k tax "refunds" for someone unemployed. But, society doesn't see it that way. Hell, even half of conservatives are cooling with murdering babies solely cause they think it will help them win the next election or because them babies might be liberals. If that's where we are at as a society, things are only going to get worse. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:44:08 PM EDT
[#42]
I think a better option is anyone on welfare is sterilized. The abortion rate will plummet.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:47:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Those support mechanisms go to pay for mom's weed, cigs, and alcohol. Not for the betterment of the kid. I get the intent. Leftists don't get the reality. Same as they don't get the dynamic reality of raising things like capital gains tax and money to the government decreases. These people don't make good decisions, and are incapable of raising a successful human (in general) because they don't know how. They were the product of ignorant/lazy/stupid/addicted parents. It's a cycle. Handing unwed moms more money does not help the problem. Doing the same thing and expecting different outcome is the definition of .... So, stop the incentive to make babies to increase income. All for monetary incentive to sterilize. Combine with no money for extra babies, this would be even more enticing to them. Orphanages worked. Of course there are horror stories, same as (but less so) than foster care. Foster care attracts people same way paying for extra babies does. Some are in it for the money. Can't take care of your kid or pay their way? Tax dollars are "paying for them now anyway" why not let "professional parents" attempt to give the kid a shot at decent life in society? Some problems only have bad and less bad solutions. Yeah I don't really disagree with much of anything here. I do chuckle at the notion from some that outlawing abortion would cause or force parents to somehow be responsible. The people we are talking about are literally incapable of responsibility. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:48:12 PM EDT
[#44]
completely stopping abortion is just about as likely as managing mandatory sterilization.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:50:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: The problem in this discussion is everyone is looking for a policy position to correct a morality issue, which seldom ever works. The flip side is, the lack of morality is directly responsible for many/most of the issues that are getting worse in our country. A society that saw abortion for what it is, an evil abomination, would also be the same society that would care for "unplanned pregnancies" on the local level via churches, charity groups, and foster and adoption placement, drastically reducing the need for public programs. Public programs are meant to be temporary, but for most it's their way of life gaming the system for indefinite support and $15k tax "refunds" for someone unemployed. But, society doesn't see it that way. Hell, even half of conservatives are cooling with murdering babies solely cause they think it will help them win the next election or because them babies might be liberals. If that's where we are at as a society, things are only going to get worse. I really don't like abortion, especially as a matter of convenience. And it's possible to feel that way, while also recognizing that most abortions of convenience are performed on mothers entirely unsuited for bringing another life into this world, and then raising a responsible and productive member of society. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:55:11 PM EDT
[#46]
If women know they just can't abort a baby on a whim, and have to live with their poor life choices, they will not take such a cavalier attitude towards sex. There would be no massive "unwanted children" problem. Abortion is a symptom. Society just accepting that "sport fucking" is all good is the disease. We need to bring back the societal stigma against being a slut (both male and female). You may really like wantonly fucking and disagree, but you can't argue with the problems it's causing.
Currently, there are no negative consequences for irresponsible sexual behavior and no reason for the behavior to change. If there are negative consequences, behavior will change. It's pretty basic psychology. Nobody seems to talk about this. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:55:18 PM EDT
[#47]
It's gonna be awesome.....
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MT, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:58:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Good luck with that. Lol
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USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:59:20 PM EDT
[#49]
When you make people, you are responsible for supporting those people. Take care of your responsibilities. If you don’t want to make people, don’t engage in activities that may result in making people.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 1:07:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cmikul: Interesting opinions on this sensitive topic. Many seem very one sided views from a position of negligence on the mother's part. As someone who has been close to someone that was violated by a family member resulting in pregnancy I can say many are lucky to not have to contemplate this situation and only pass judgement on those engaging in "casual sex" and it's consequence. Take a moment as you ponder your view of abortion and be thankful you haven't lived thru the horror of some of the most horrible situations and choices that some have had to make. OK, so if we on the pro-life side agree that abortions in cases of rape, incest, and to protect the life of the mother, can be allowed, do you then agree that the other 99% of abortions are absolutely abhorrent and unjustifiable? If not, you're just for killing any baby for any (or no) reason, and you bringing up this example is totally disingenuous. |
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