Since abortion seems to be the topic of the day, let me pose this question.

I think most of us can agree that abortion is disgusting and abstinence or contraception is preferable, but this thread is about reality, not your personal morals.

Quick googling informs me that there are 500k - 1,500k abortions a year in the US, while there are 50k - 100k adoptions in the US per year. Feel free to correct my numbers. We can also agree that the adoption process in the US needs reform, but we’re still talking about at best, a surplus of 400k unwanted babies.

So what do we do with these children?

Force them on the parent(s) that didn’t want them?
Force them on pro-lifers?
Cheap labor?
Child super soldiers?
Put them in prison or mental institutions where they will inevitable end up?

FWIW, I’ve known many families that adopted, and in almost all of those cases, the child was serious messed up for life due to lack of love and affection in the infant stage.

Brutal?  That doesn't even begin to cover it.
Our society would be on the brink of collapse within months.
Our enemies would be lining up to attack us.

FPNI

Glad to see this idea is finally taking off.

Imagine if you will soldiers raised from birth with the discipline of the military.  

The idea or our own Spacemarine-Spartan-Supersoldiers.

It's the one government program I could get behind.  Plus based on demographics for abortion.  It would be an incredibly "diverse" force.

I get it... I belonged to an Evangelical church at the time the Republicans made their pitch to court that vote.  Still does not change facts. I do not want to live in a theocracy, Judeo Christian or not.   Can you imagine the Religious Right Karen, seeing someone doing something "harmful" i.e. not agreeable to their religious beliefs by a pregnant women?  Child abuse. Jail for you, no soup for you.  A lot on this board love freedom..... for guns, not much else. Just as dangerous as the leftists.

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/5941_the-number-of-movies-russell-crowe-appeared-in_correlates-with_customer-satisfaction-with-walgreens

Huh.

https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf

We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed signicantly to
recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly eighteen years after abortion
legalization. The five states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines
earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade.
States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime
reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after
abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states.

Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

And:

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2003/01/did-abortion-legalization-reduce-number-unwanted-children-evidence-adoptions

The estimated effect of abortion legalization on adoption rates is sizable and can account for much of the decline in adoptions, particularly of children born to white women, during the early 1970s. These findings support previous studies' conclusions that abortion legalization led to a reduction in the number of "unwanted" children; such a reduction may have improved average infant health and children's living conditions.

https://www.bidmc.org/about-bidmc/news/2023/10/abortion-bans-linked-to-increase-in-children-entering-foster-system

The team found an overall increase in foster care entries in states with restrictive abortion laws, compared to states without them, including a 15 percent increase for Black and racial and ethnic minority children in states with TRAP laws.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30389101/

Results: From 6 months to 4.5 years after their mothers sought abortions, existing children of women denied abortions had lower mean child development scores (adjusted β -0.04, 95% CI -0.07 to -0.00) and were more likely to live below the Federal Poverty Level (aOR 3.74, 95% CI 1.59-8.79) than the children of women who received a wanted abortion. There were no significant differences in child health or time spent with a caregiver other than the mother.

Conclusions: Denying women a wanted abortion may have negative developmental and socioeconomic consequences for their existing children.

Depending on how it was implemented (which it never will be because...purchased votes)

The element in question add nothing. It would just be a matter of converting resources now used to support them, to efforts to either get them self sufficient or pacified while they die off and self destruct.

LOL.

Not the conclusion I'd draw. Single moms raise criminals. If they kill the baby there's no criminal to raise

Let the army raise them. We will then have a bunch of 20 year old sergeant majors.

Finally a reality based answer to a complex issue.  I like it.  But don't you know if someone questions you slightly you are supposed to accuse them of 100% supporting the opposite argument?  Most people in this thread can't grasp discussing the middle ground.  One can argue for a system to make sure children aren't neglected without it meaning they support socialism.  Both orphanages and psychiatric asylums should be brought back.

The adoption process in the US is broken.  Even the foster care system is a royal pain and in most cases leaves the kids broken.  The US is failing the kids it already has in the system, yet some here think putting all the would be aborted kids into the system would be some type of magical solution.  I dated a girl that was given up at birth.  She turned out to be a train wreck, mostly because of the trauma and abuse that happened to her as a foster child.  There is no simple fix like many here think and any good solution is going to require more tax payer money.  

Let them live and by the time they are old enough to be criminals we can ship them one way to Musk's Mars (prison) colony.  They can run the terraformer equipment and become rendered into rich soil compost upon death.

I would just like to say that I've found your posts in this thread to be spot on.

Make them our new industrial base to undercut chinese slave labor?

Whoa there buddy, I didn't say any of that.  I pointed out that if the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world turned it backs on everyone in need it would be considered cold and uncaring.  I just got done replying to how you see the middle ground instead of accusing someone of the extreme opposite position.  Guess I spoke to soon. One can argue for taking care of those truly in need without demanding it be taken to the point of socialism and vote buying.  

Government cheese should be brought back.  People that need the government to buy them food should be stuck eating government provided food, not given a debit card to buy whatever they want.  Being dependent on the government in times of need should be seen as ok...but it should also be very uncomfortable existence so they are motivated to do better.   Most of those in Appalachia living off the government are not truly in need.  They can get away with it so they do it.  Just because they were born there doesn't mean the government needs to support them so they can continue living there.  

Same here.  I had to do a double take at your posts and then realized that you and I have very similar views on this topic.

I'm not sure it would require more tax dollars.

In the end, you'll reduce crime, reducing costs of LE and prison systems. You'll up income tax receipts from having more productive members of society who are educated and not losers because they've been raised with structure, discipline, decent nutrition, education. You'll be breaking the cycle of welfare dependence, abuse, neglect, etc. May even save money in health care system. Fewer addicts, alcoholics, etc.

In the end, investing directly into kids whose parents aren't fit or financially capable of raising them, may actually save us money. I'd be willing to bet on it.

Crime has been on a meteoric rise since 2018....

So your 80's/90's tough on crime story doesn't really work.

@swire
Sorry. Got carried away.

Would preventing single women from having kids all crime then?


Mandatory Marriage?

Mandatory Contraception?

Birthing Permits?

Think of the crime!!

I don't think lowcountry is all bad. He just suffers from TDS.

Nope. Just stating a statistical fact. On average, single women raise a considerably higher percentage of criminals than intact families. There's a ton of reasons behind that.

The point was that would be single mothers are the ones having abortions.
Abortion rates increased.
Crime rate dropped.
It isn't because the would be kid wasn't a drain on the single mom household.
It was because the would be kid, who would have been raised by a single mom, isn't in the "single mom raised criminal" statistic. But that is un PC to say.

I really wish we had a libertarian party or even an anarchist (AnPrim) party that was relevant in national politics.  I prefer my politics with a touch more freedom and liberty than this tiresome Red vs. Blue bullshit that all the incels gobble up.

The American public isn't educated or self reliant enough to work in THIS system.

There is no hope in hell they would work in a libertarian system.

I used to be more idealistic and argue with sylvan about this point. I now realize he was right. People, as a whole, are too stupid, lazy, undisciplined, unwise, unresourceful (why is that word flagged for incorrect spelling?) to come close to what it would take to live in a libertarian society.

They would live!  Where there is life - there is hope.  

How much have you actually interacted with the segment of the population that uses abortion as birth control?

The vast majority of them have serious cognitive issues that mean they really can’t connect actions and consequences or outcomes based on current circumstances. Every day is a surprise. Things just happen to them out of the blue. Emotional regulation is nonexistent; if it feels good, they do it, if they want it, they take it, and if it makes them mad, they wreck it. They are not capable of planning for the future; everything is a perpetual now.

Remove the safety nets, and you just end up with dead kids anyway.

If abortions were banned 100% I'd probably invest in the companies that manufacture the morning after pill (not RU-486 / mifepristone).  

yeah, I'm aware it's pretty much out of reach with the amount of dumb dumbs in our society, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's, well, really fkn desirable for me.

Often times they aren’t even adults. It’s pretty common for them to become grandparents before 40. I’d speculate a lot of them have some degree of of brain damage from exposure to drugs and alcohol or malnutrition while in the womb.

We looked at adoption.  The system is designed to destroy the family.  They want lgqrp folks as parents. They want full control of oversight.  Their requirements drive away normalcy and encourage deviance.  The system for "supporting" children has long since departed correctness.

It is all by design.

think of the children? You literally say kill them and when that gets too graphic, you say think of the children?

use them as an invading army into mexico, guatemal and venezuela....if they can send us 100 million illegas, why can't we do it back?


and ya, "abortion banned"...uh huh, was happening even in the 1940s dude, stop listening to dipshit liberals

All these mental gymnastics to explain away loose women being sluts.

If we don't legalize child abuse and neglect, what will we do with all the beaten and neglected children?

Also if we want to compromise on allowing the murder of kids in the platform to win elections, why not compromise on guns?  Lets ban all firearms and revoke the 2nd amendment.  We'd might get a few psychopaths on board the republican platform!!!!

I think GD's carmudgeons are very much overestimating the number rabid leftist votes they'll gain by by embracing the wholesale slaughter of the innocents vs how many they'd lose by doing so.  

Abortion is a symptom of a sick society not the cause of our sickness.

The body politic that is our nation is infested with parasites.  As a consequence, our Democratic Republic cannot function as intended.  This has lead to a society out of balance with serious social issues.  We can correct this situation by removing the parasites and we can do that without harming anyone by simply abolishing universal suffrage and replacing it with a merit suffrage system. Once we did that then people with civic virtue would command the electorate and in turn the nation, which would lead to more sound governance that eventually would correct the social issues.  In such a society, we could reach a point where abortion could be 100% banned with very little negative impact.

__________

To answer the OP's question:  "What would we do with all the unwanted children?"

Short answer:  The same thing we do now only even more poorly and at greater expense.  

What percentage of children who are abandoned or who's parents have their parental rights terminated end up in prison or on social welfare programs? That would be an interesting statistic to know.  It's probably not even something that was discussed during the debates in States where they have restricted abortions.  The reason it's not discussed is that we have a very immature and silly electorate that is at least half emotional women and so it's hard to have rational cold discussions.  

I don't even have a problem with sluts.  There are many ways to prevent pregnancy.  They really just want to slaughter the unborn.  Its not like children just magically grow from women like an apple.

We're just asking that if you don't want to raise a child, give it up for adoption or stop taking creampies to the snatch during ovulation without then taking the morning after pill.  It's really not that hard...

Amen.

All these arguments and "solutions" that conveniently forget about the men who impregnated the women.

It’s amazing that people fuck. All those whores and sluts.

I don't want to ban abortion. But I do want to prevent it.

Take a hard look into the people most frequently aborting their children. More likely than not, they're not law-abiding and gainfully employed. Do you want them procreating?

It’s amazing that I’ve been fucking for 25 years and have yet to get a woman pregnant.

It’s almost like there are ways to prevent that.

What’s even more amazing is these sluts are getting pregnant without men involved at all.  One would think part of the solution is men keeping their dick in their pants instead of blowing their load in any slut that gives them a whiff, but no, the sluts are getting pregnant all by themselves.

I think that's slightly the wrong take with the gun analogy.

Being pragmatic, we're not going to win the abortion fight. Not now. All we're doing is yielding power and still not stopping abortion.

Same as the left got a little pragmatic about gun control. They're not going to stop us from having guns and when they run on the issue, they realize they lose.

So, given those facts, what to do about it? Continue to stomp our foot demanding our way and lose elections in the process while innocent babies are still being killed?

Find a better way to gain and keep political power while trying to change the culture and policies so abortion is reduced and living children are better cared for?

You're not "giving up your principles". You're realizing that trying to force your principles, politically, on an unwilling populace is a losing proposition.

Given that the current system is broken and failing most of the kids, it would require a major overhaul which would require more funding.  My sister-in-law adopted a cousin's child when the mom went out of control.  Even though it was still family it took years for the process to be complete.  I believe since the state took custody of the child they help cover some of the cost but it was still a financial burden.  Streamlining the process is required but it also needs some checks to make sure the adoptive parents qualify and aren't abusive.  Again a complex issue and since the government never does anything efficiently it would cost more tax payers more.  

Having well adjusted educated kids who would become productive adults would be worth it.  Right now it seems more and more of the the non-adopted kids are going the opposite direction.  The adopted and foster kids really don't stand a chance.  I get a small glimpse into some of the data for my state.  We have around 1 million people under the age 18 and 2019 saw almost 100,000 incidents of abuse reported with many of the kids being prior victims of abuse.  Taken as raw data that would be 10% abuse rate but in reality it often the same kids being abused over and over.  These are just the regular kids, not the unwanted ones given up.  That system often fails everyone as well, where the government workers look for every little reason to take the kids from the home and abuse their authority just because they can.  Often they really do nothing to try to help the parent or kids.  Fixing the existing system would be a good first step.

The same people who expect everyone in America to stop fucking unless they're trying to conceive a child will be along in the next thread to tell us how bad drugs are.

All while they are clearly on those same drugs.

I realize there's a vast gulf between "puppies" and "shelter animals," but we already do:

This.

Hey, if you aborted everyone there wouldn't be any crime at all!

Good grief, the things people rationalize.

Yeah we abandoned a set of shackles that ensure we lose everything, our hands, our minds, our hearts are free to take our own side, defend our interests, secure our rights and ensure our means of self preservation and self determination.

Conservativism conserved nothing, do I have to get that quote from 1890 again?

It’s time to go back to what works, what the Founders knew to be true, eternal truths that are unchanging as they are rooted into the bedrock of reality.

As an adoptive parent, there is a large shortage of babies to adopt and it is very expensive to complete the process.   As to the comment that all adoptive children have mental problems is not even remotely true, if anything adoptees are loved even more than biological children.  There is a saying that nobody adopted a child by mistake, can't say that about biological children.  Once you start raising a child, it doesn't matter where the child came from, you will have successes and failures whether the child is adopted or biological.

The thing is, some people are too stupid to do so.