Sometimes someone will take up our offer at The Box O' Truth, "You ship, we shoot."

My friend C-4 sent me a note, "Hey O_P, I see guys with AK-47 magazines carried in pouches on their chests.  I wonder if that would really stop a bullet.  I've got some old mags.  You want to try them to see?"

What could I say?  Sure!

Here is a typical pic of a guy in the Sandbox wearing a chest pouch full of AK mags.  This also happened in Viet Nam with the VC carrying mags in this manner.  They probably couldn't get quality body armor and felt that the mags might at least help stop a bullet.



Here's today's question: Will loaded rifle magazines provide any protection to the wearer from rifle fire?

Here's the set-up.  We mounted a cross member on a backer board and tied the mag in place.  Turned out we didn't really need the paracord.  The mag was loaded with Wolf 7.62 X 39 ammo.



We backed up at least 50 yards, as we weren't sure exactly what would happen and didn't want to be too close in case of bounce-back.

Here's Tman shooting his AR15 with a scope to help with careful shot placement.  He's shooting XM-193 Ball.



We were surprised that at the hit, there was an obvious fire in the mag for about 3 seconds.

You can see the scorch marks on the board.



The 5.56 had gone through the mag like a dose of salt.  A few of the rounds inside had cooked off.

Let's stop for a minute and discuss "cook off".   If a round of ammunition is not surrounded by a firearm chamber, but is set off, the powder begins to burn.  But since it is not contained within a chamber, it quickly pushes the primer out or pushes the bullet out of the case.  The powder then just "burns" and does not "explode".  In all cases today, we saw many "cooked off" rounds, but no bullets left the magazine.  In some cases the primers were pushed out, and in one instance, we could plainly hear the primer "Pop".

Here's the damage behind the mag.



Here's Tman holding the mag to show the back side damage.



Here I am getting ready to shoot it with a 7.62 X 39 AK.



I hit near the bottom of the mag and blew it off.  Nasty hole behind the mag.  Sure didn't slow down the round.



Notice how the back of the mag has split from the rounds inside cooking off.



I tried another shot nearer the top, and it made this exit.



Notice how a primer has popped out of this round.



Here's some examples of what we found inside the mags.



Next, to give equal time, we shot a Mini-14 mag loaded with 5.56 rounds.  I shot it with the AK.



I caught this pic to the next mag, immediately after the shot, as it lay on the ground, and you can see smoke from the rounds cooking off.



Tman shot it with a 5.56 and here's the damage to the exit on the mag and the backer board.



Here's some of the damaged and cooked off ammo.



Here's what it looked like down in the mag, where the rounds had cooked off.



Lastly, we shot a Sig P220 mag with the AR.  The round center punched a round of .45 ACP, but went through without causing any cook offs.  The bullet didn't slow down.



On the way to the range, Tman had said, "This probably isn't going to be that interesting." I said, "Maybe so, but I promised C-4 I'd do the tests."  We were both surprised at how interesting it turned out and how much we learned.

Lessons Learned:

1.  AK magazine pouches filled with loaded magazines do not provide any significant protection from rifle fire.

2.  The hit rounds may cook off, but this would not result in any major injuries.  Not that it would matter much, as the wearer would already have a large hole through him.

3.  Both the 5.56 and the 7.62 X 39 punch right through these magazines.

4.  Shooting stuff is fun!  

Thanks to Tman for the help.  And a special thanks to C-4 for shipping me the mags.  I think we learned a few things.

(For those interested, we have a site where we keep all these types of threads.  It is : www.theboxotruth.com/.  Thanks. )

Good Post

Quoted: 2.  The hit rounds may cook off, but this would not result in any major injuries.  Not that it would matter much, as the wearer would already have a large hole through him.

Good job, O_P!!

Another argument ender!

Thanks O_P!

WOW!

It just keeps getting better! Thanks, Old_Painless and TMan and all the others who contribute to the Box O' Truth effort. I eat this stuff up with a spoon, man.

Geez, who needs fragmenting rounds when the tango is wearing a magazine-vest? The magazines provide theri own shrapnel!


ETA: Great sidebar discussion on cook-off! Fantastic!

Wow, that's a pretty good write up. Thanks.

I seriously doubt that anyone is wearing mags across the chest as poor mans body armor...That just happens to be where they wanted to hang them for easy access

I'll add this to the site whenever I can.. I'm guessing 3-4 weeks though.

These are just awesome tests.  Thanks again for another interesting read.

Quoted: I seriously doubt that anyone is wearing mags across the chest as poor mans body armor...That just happens to be where they wanted to hang them for easy access

Nope, if they were carrying them for "easy access", they'd carry them on belt pouches like our guys do.

At least part of their reasoning is to act as armor.

Thanks Old-Painless! You always come up with interesting tests.

Quoted: I seriously doubt that anyone is wearing mags across the chest as poor mans body armor...That just happens to be where they wanted to hang them for easy access

Still, this test clearly shown that the practice carries with it a significant additional risk!

Tagged for later....

Quoted: I'll add this to the site whenever I can.. I'm guessing 3-4 weeks though.

No problem old buddy.

Just stay safe over there and get home.

Note to self: avoid being shot with 5.56 or 7.62 X 39.

I deem OP the official ARFCOM MythBuster!

Another kick-ass installment! Thanks O.P.

Taxman may want to reconsider his ammo fort.

YUSSS! I've been waiting for this exact post for months. Now, for the obligatory annoying comment, "maybe you should have tried it with mags stacked 2 and 3 deep."

Quoted: Taxman may want to reconsider his ammo fort.

lol

Quoted: Note to self: avoid being shot with 5.56 or 7.62 X 39.

Note to self #2:  Avoid being shot with anything!

I have a box of truth request.


Use of magazines ( the perodicals) as bullet stops.

You know how they say to use bookshelves strategically placed incase you have to shoot a badguy in your house and you dont want the bullets going through a few walls.

Quoted: I deem OP the official ARFCOM MythBuster!

I bet those guys on TV get paid better than I do.

Great job as always OP.

Thanks



ETA:   Very informitive.  I never thought rounds would cook off from getting shot.

Quoted: Taxman may want to reconsider his ammo fort.

Quoted: Great job as always OP. Thanks ETA:   Very informitive.  I never thought rounds would cook off from getting shot.

I didn't either.

We noticed that the 7.62 X 39 seemed to cook off more than the .223 rounds.

Maybe because it was steel cased (Wolf)?  Don't know for sure.

But it sure made a light and smoke show.

Some people have vests that have 2- AR mags stacked in the same pouch. Maybe you should shoot a stack of 2 of them...


Very good test though.

Good shit !

I have a box of truth request. Use of magazines ( the perodicals) as bullet stops. You know how they say to use bookshelves strategically placed incase you have to shoot a badguy in your house and you dont want the bullets going through a few walls.

Yeah, and I wanna see Box o' truth and say.... puppies. Ya know when you're laying on your couch with the dog, watching TV and a stray bullet comes through your window...

Quoted: Quoted: I seriously doubt that anyone is wearing mags across the chest as poor mans body armor...That just happens to be where they wanted to hang them for easy access Nope, if they were carrying them for "easy access", they'd carry them on belt pouches like our guys do. At least part of their reasoning is to act as armor.

Actually alot of our guys have moved away from belt pouches and now carry mags in pouches over their body armor...some right across the chest.  I'll look for pics

Quoted: Actually alot of our guys have moved away from belt pouches and now carry mags in pouches over their body armor...some right across the chest.  I'll look for pics

You don't have to find pics.  I believe you.  I've seen them.

Let's not hijack this thread arguing this point, please.

Thanks.

From 100yards Bushmaster 16" barrel 1-9 twist
Entry



Exit



Bullet continued through 9" damp newsprint settng it on fire and 3/4 plywood

Magazines are poor bullet potection.

Red X

Cool. Can you shoot a wheelbarrow?

.

Cool pictures as usual.


I still would like to know what kind of penetration you would get after going through the magazines. A Fackler Box would be cheap and easy for you to build.

Quoted: (For those interested, we have a site where we keep all these types of threads.  It is : www.theboxotruth.com/.  Thanks. )

Hey O_P,
  I went to your site, and noticed right away that the pope made donations to the Box Of Truth.

"Welcome to BoT!
Thanks to papal donations, ..........................."

(Yes, I know it means PayPal, but I felt like messin' with ya a bit).  

Quoted: Quoted: (For those interested, we have a site where we keep all these types of threads.  It is : www.theboxotruth.com/.  Thanks. ) Hey O_P,   I went to your site, and noticed right away that the pope made donations to the Box Of Truth. "Welcome to BoT! Thanks to papal donations, ..........................." (Yes, I know it means PayPal, but I felt like messin' with ya a bit).

Tallbill is responsible for the site maintenance.

But it wouldn't surprise me if the Pope contributed.

He is Polish after all, and they have sure fought some tough wars.  Probably interested in firearms.

Quoted: Taxman may want to reconsider his ammo fort.

Speaking of ammo forts, during various wars, it was common for troops that were ensconsed in position to take empty ammo cans and fill them with dirt and build walls much like you would do with sandbags.

Tigazzazzzzazzzazzzazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

(GRRR.... photo server is FUBAR).

Quoted: Tigazzazzzzazzzazzzazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! (GRRR.... photo server is FUBAR).

I am beginning to believe that I break it when I post one of these photo-rich posts.

It's sure aggreviating.  Go to all that trouble and then the server goes belly up.

GM

Quoted: fuserservices.com/OHOH.JPG GM

Better install a fire extinguisher in there, Taxman.

Quoted: Taggage until the photoserver is working...

Me too.

Man, these are my favorite posts!

I can't wait for the pics to work!

Shawn

You should send this idea to Mythbusters. It would be great to see Jamie test this out on TV.

Tag for photoserver fix

red x's