Well, I have been swamped with meetings today but I got a call a couple hours ago from a very nice Agent for the Dept. of Defense NCIS unit asking me all kinds of questions leading up to some very specific questions about a laptop computer I bought back in January off EBAY...

Well, I am a slow person but it didn't take me long to figure out that they thought my laptop was Government property and they want it back...  They asked if they could meet me today to get the laptop and I couldn't for a couple reasons including that I am at work and I have meetings all day plus I have a ton of data on that computer including all my bills, tax and other data....

So, I need some pretty quick advise on two levels...

Question 1.  

HOW CAN I SAVE ALL MY DATA AND WRITE OVER IT SO THAT MY CRITICAL INFO IS NOT AT RISK IS THIS LAPTOP GETS SOLD OFF IN THE FUTURE?

The Laptop is a Dell D600 and I have it networked at home so I can use simple XP file sharing to copy my various Data files over to our desktop machine but I know I can't just delete the files and they will be gone...

I have plenty of "PICTURES" I can upload back onto the laptop hard drive after I delete my critical data and redelete it so that if someone was to go in and restore the hard drive they will only find 30GB of "PICTURES" if that is the only way I can do this but I would just as soon wipe the actual hard drive to ensure my credit card and other financial information is secure...  I was using this laptop for all my accounting so it has al my critical records on it as I liked being able to lock the laptop in the gun safe when we were not around...

So, any advise on how to make sure my critical data is secure?  One of my coworkers in IT suggested pulling the harddrive but I really don't want to make the guys with power angry and I don't need a 30-GB hardrive...

Question #2:

Is there anything I can do about this?  I looked and I did buy the laptop off EBAY using a Credit Card through my PayPal account.  I have already called the Credit Card Company and I will be sending them information soon and I will also be addressing this with PAYPAL and EBAY.  Still, this has been six months so I am not sure there is a dambed thing I can do...

Do I have any rights in this or if the nice guy from the DOD says give me the laptop I am supposed to hand the laptop over and kiss $720 of my money goodbye?  I welcome any advise as I asked the guy at the DOD to give me a day or two to allow me to get my critical files off the Laptop but beyond that I am assuming that I am going to need to buy another computer soon...

Thanks for any advise!

Removed profanity from title -- <Defcon>

Holy shit!

(Sorry I'm no help...consider it a free bump, it's deserved)

google for a program named "autoclave"

eta:  staff.washington.edu/jdlarios/autoclave-discontinued/

The computer that fell off the roof of your car on the highway last week????

Tell them you sold it, for cash, at some swap meet.   You made a few bucks and
are looking for another one.  Ask them if they have any more for sale.

Was it Agent DiNozzo or Agent Gibbs?

they're probably looking to find out if the laptop you purchased came from someone who sold government property.

Quoted: google for a program named "autoclave" eta:  staff.washington.edu/jdlarios/autoclave-discontinued/

What if they need important secret data on it, not just the machine?  You don't want to erase something pertinent to national security or something.
Or would guys with black suits have shown up if that were the case?

Are they reimbursing you for it? +1 on Texas's note, I would have told them I sold it for cash somewhere.

How do you know this isn't a scam?

Hide the dog...

I would not give it to him without proof it belongs to the Government.  Ask for a bill of sale with the Brand, model and serial number on it.  Short of that or a court order It is yours.

Quoted: How do you know this isn't a scam?

Good question...

Make them prove it was stolen or tell them to shove off. Take the hard drive out if it's theirs

Quoted: How do you know this isn't a scam?

Seriously, before you give it up, you want credentials, a court order, and a gift card to best buy for a new one.

Quoted: I would not give it to him without proof it belongs to the Government.  Ask for a bill of sale with the Brand, model and serial number on it.  Short of that or a court order It is yours.

Unless it's 'possession of stolen goods'.

To be sure you get all the data off your computer you need a program that will wipe the entire hard drive over and over with a series of 0 and 1.  At one point I heard the standard for being completely wiped was 9 cycles anything less than that and the data could technically be recovered.

Quoted: Is there anything I can do about this?  I looked and I did buy the laptop off EBAY using a Credit Card through my PayPal account.  I have already called the Credit Card Company and I will be sending them information soon and I will also be addressing this with PAYPAL and EBAY.  Still, this has been six months so I am not sure there is a dambed thing I can do... Do I have any rights in this or if the nice guy from the DOD says give me the laptop I am supposed to hand the laptop over and kiss $720 of my money goodbye?  I welcome any advise as I asked the guy at the DOD to give me a day or two to allow me to get my critical files off the Laptop but beyond that I am assuming that I am going to need to buy another computer soon... Thanks for any advise!

I think going through your credit card company is the way to go - because the seller was clearly fraudulent if he was selling you stolen property.  I'd think that falls under the kind of "fraud protection" that most CC companies offer these days.

But, because it is stolen property, DOD (or any original owner) doesn't have any obligation to compensate you, just because you gave someone else money for property that rightfully belongs to them.

At least, that's my impression.



ETA: Don't forget to get lets of ID and stuff - just to make sure this isn;t a brilliant scam to get people to hand over their laptops.  I.e. somone could surf eBay sales of used computers, and then call people and claim to be the govenrment, wanting their computer back.  Probably pretty far-fetched, but it might be an effective scam!  

Quoted: Was it Agent DiNozzo or Agent Gibbs?

It's a laptop, so it was probably Agent McGee.

Speaker magnet
add computer
let simmer for an hour or so.

Tell them, "I'm sorry, I lost that computer in a tragic boating accident."

Quoted: The computer that fell off the roof of your car on the highway last week????

no, the one that he took fishing.

Tell them you sold it, for cash, at some swap meet. You made a few bucks and are looking for another one. Ask them if they have any more for sale.

I don't know if you have any legal rights or not...but I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea to lie to the DOD.

Pull the files off across your network.

Use this to overwrite your HDD.
Boot and Nuke

If someone has the unlimited resources of the .gov you would probably be amazed at what they could still recover,  but if you were that high a priority I don't believe you would have the option of getting your data first....someone would have retrieved it already.

They will reimburse you for the cost of the laptop... Actually, they will make the guy who sold it to you pay (after he is found guilty or cops to what he did) them and they or he will pay you, depending on whatever deal he makes.

A friend had this happen he with a guy you sold him a told of stuff he had stolen from the military.

dban.sourceforge.net/

Quoted: Quoted: google for a program named "autoclave" eta:  staff.washington.edu/jdlarios/autoclave-discontinued/ What if they need important secret data on it, not just the machine?  You don't want to erase something pertinent to national security or something. Or would guys with black suits have shown up if that were the case?

If there was any classified data on the drive I'd imagine that they would be knocking at your door to secure the drive, not wait for you to offload all your info.

+1 on the wiping software.  BC Wipe is what the .gov uses, after a few passes it's unrecoverable.

And if you really want to fight the man I'd suggest you have a lawyer present.  On second thought that may not be a bad idea anyways.

ETA:  Quarterbore:  What speed is the laptop in question?

Move your files and then remove the hard drive and cut it up with scissors and burn it. Give them the laptop sans hard drive. DO NOT LEAVE PORN ON IT!!!!!

Couple of .223's should do it.

At the hard drive, not the agents.

You might need this...........

Quoted: Quoted: Was it Agent DiNozzo or Agent Gibbs? It's a laptop, so it was probably Agent McGee.

Too bad it wasn't Abby

Now that you have a known stolen computer from the gubmint, run a program to recover wiped data, and find some secure stuff, then tell em you know everything and want a 6 figure salary or you'll talk.

Step 1: Back up all your info

Step 2: Remove hard drive from laptop

Step 3: Pound several nails through the HDD platter

Step 4: Set the hard drive on fire

Step 5: Return the laptop to the DOD

First off, let them get a warrant, and/or make them prove its their property before you go handing over your property to some jackoff.  

Quoted: First off, let them get a warrant, and/or make them prove its their property before you go handing over your property to some jackoff.

+1

<eta>
and if the warrant does not include your data - wipe the disk and drop the system as you are handing it over

Quoted: Step 1: Back up all your info Step 2: Remove hard drive from laptop Step 3: Pound several nails through the HDD platter Step 4: Set the hard drive on fire Step 5: Return the laptop to the DOD

Destroying government property?

Quoted: Quoted: Step 1: Back up all your info Step 2: Remove hard drive from laptop Step 3: Pound several nails through the HDD platter Step 4: Set the hard drive on fire Step 5: Return the laptop to the DOD Destroying government property?

Yes.

Obviously he bought it without a hard drive.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Step 1: Back up all your info Step 2: Remove hard drive from laptop Step 3: Pound several nails through the HDD platter Step 4: Set the hard drive on fire Step 5: Return the laptop to the DOD Destroying government property? Yes. Obviously he bought it without a hard drive.

Yikes.  I wouldn't want to be in this situation.

Quoted: Quoted: I would not give it to him without proof it belongs to the Government.  Ask for a bill of sale with the Brand, model and serial number on it.  Short of that or a court order It is yours. Unless it's 'possession of stolen goods'.

For the crime of possession of stolen property to be complete, you must have knowledge that the property is stolen.

If someone sold you a Glock Foty on a street corner for $40 you should reasonably assume it is stolen.  If you buy a laptop on e-bay for $60 same thing.  If you go to a gun store and buy a used Glock Foty for $395 and it turns out to be stolen it would be difficult to prove you knew it was stolen.  Likewise with the laptop.  Buy it on e-bay for $700 most likely you had no idea it was hot.  Therfore no crime has been committed.

You still might lose it and be out the money if it is stolen but there should not be any type of charges.

"Tannerite", and "It's been nice knowing you, Quarterbore."

Quoted: Obviously he bought it without a hard drive.

]


that's why it was so cheap right

Right?????

Riiiiggghhhttt????????  Work with me here...

I would get a new hard drive for it, install,  run the restore, and keep your existing hard drive.  You can find a laptop hdd for about $75, and an enclosure for your new extrernal hdd for another $25.  $100, and the feds are off your back and all your data is still yours.  Plus you have a new extrernal device for backing your data up to incase you decide to buy your next laptop off ebay as well.  

as for formatting the drive before you return it (if you go that route), 9 special formats of 0's and 1's is the known threshold for recovering data.  You know the .gov always has a little more advanced tactics than are available to us citizens.   I would double that if you want to guarantee no data recovery.  

See you late-ah.  Have fun at Gitmo.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would not give it to him without proof it belongs to the Government.  Ask for a bill of sale with the Brand, model and serial number on it.  Short of that or a court order It is yours. Unless it's 'possession of stolen goods'. For the crime of possession of stolen property to be complete, you must have knowledge that the property is stolen. If someone sold you a Glock Foty on a street corner for $40 you should reasonably assume it is stolen.  If you buy a laptop on e-bay for $60 same thing.  If you go to a gun store and buy a used Glock Foty for $395 and it turns out to be stolen it would be difficult to prove you knew it was stolen.  Likewise with the laptop.  Buy it on e-bay for $700 most likely you had no idea it was hot.  Therfore no crime has been committed. You still might lose it and be out the money if it is stolen but there should not be any type of charges.

That sounds reasonable but I didn't know if it worked that way.

Look at some of the ATF interpretations of intent for example.  They aren't always reasonable.


Don’t listen to anything I said previously on this subject.  It sounds serious and you probably need knowledgeable, professional advice/representation.

Sounds like it's time to lawyer up.

Quoted: Now that you have a known stolen computer from the gubmint, run a program to recover wiped data, and find some secure stuff, then tell em you know everything and want a 6 figure salary or you'll talk.

Naaah I don't think that would work I think he would just disappear.

Physical destruction is the only means to insure no recovery.  Remove your drive and once they come with the proper paperwork, hand then the laptop and a new drive still in box.  If you bought it with the drive in there, copy all of your data off and then put nails through the platter and give them laptop, old drive with nails and new drive still in box.

Quoted: I would get a new hard drive for it, install,  run the restore, and keep your existing hard drive.  You can find a laptop hdd for about $75, and an enclosure for your new extrernal hdd for another $25.  $100, and the feds are off your back and all your data is still yours.  Plus you have a new extrernal device for backing your data up to incase you decide to buy your next laptop off ebay as well.   as for formatting the drive before you return it (if you go that route), 9 special formats of 0's and 1's is the known threshold for recovering data.  You know the .gov always has a little more advanced tactics than are available to us citizens.   I would double that if you want to guarantee no data recovery.

Let's presume for a minute that he's not being investigated for high treason (supported by the fact they called him and are letting him recover his data).  It therefore stands to reason that (if this is all on the up and up) they just want their computer back.  If that's all they want they probably won't send the hard drive off to the NSA to see what he used to have in his My Documents folder.

Standard hard drive disposal measures need to be taken.  That means a few to a dozen passes with a wipe program (depending on your level of paranoya).

If you really want to be sure not much short of a belt sander on the platters or smelting will destroy the data for sure and certian.

Quoted: Quoted: Obviously he bought it without a hard drive. ] that's why it was so cheap right Right????? Riiiiggghhhttt????????  Work with me here...

Another, slightly more expensive option would be to just replace the HDD with a blank one.  Best I can find is that the D600 came with either a 30gig or 40gig hard drive.

You should be able to find a 40gig 5400rpm drive for $50-60.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Obviously he bought it without a hard drive. ] that's why it was so cheap right Right????? Riiiiggghhhttt????????  Work with me here... Another, slightly more expensive option would be to just replace the HDD with a blank one.  Best I can find is that the D600 came with either a 30gig or 40gig hard drive. You should be able to find a 40gig 5400rpm drive for $50-60.

To me, that sounds like the best option so far.

ETA: Maybe just a thorough wipe of personal data would be sufficient though.



Don’t listen to anything I said previously on this subject. It sounds serious and you probably need knowledgeable, professional advice/representation.