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Precisely. It would be one thing if Pat Robertson was calling for the assasination of Tony Blair. It is another to call for the assasination of a guy who has done everything possible to try to spit in our eye and threaten us. Tony Blair is a friend. Chavez isn't. Underestimating those who position themselves as your enemies is never a wise idea. Guys like Chavez are interested in one thing: Their own hide. They exist for themselves and will do whatever is necessary to preserve themselves. Thus if you threaten what they value most, you keep them in check. |
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I wish Pat hadn't made that comment. That said however, I have to believe that someone with his contacts and wealth could easily find some talent, who for the right price (paid by him), could make Chavez disappear. The world would be a better place and there would be no sideshow, unlike the one he has now needlessly created. |
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That would be crossing the line. Privately hiring hitmen to take out other national leaders is just plain wrong. The US government conducting foreign policy is one thing. Somebody conducting it FOR the US government is a whole different kettle of fish. |
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Precisely. Christianity is not some esoteric floating idea. It is real, and it does not faint at taking hard moral questions head on. |
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Move along folks, nothing to see there!!! |
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Sure it would. Do you think that the lesson would be lost on every other latin american leader that had a problem with the US? Besides, killing Chavez isn't going to change the way that country votes. So they elect his brother/uncle instead whose first agenda has got to be to whack Bush to save his own ass. |
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People have been trying to whack the President for a long time. They just don't succeed because we provide him with excellent protection. If Chavez and his core support are removed from the human population with precision, whomever takes power after Chavez will have some serious thinking to do about just how much he wants to try to threaten the US. That is the point. |
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I guess nothing right. Perfect justification for Iranian sponsored terrorists to take out the President. -We conspire with Israel -We are an enemy of Iran (sanctions et. al.) -We invaded two of their next door neighbors. Just what the world needs. A Christian minister advocating terror attacks. |
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Just wait. If someone wants him bad enough . . .
Then why not kill Castro first?
News Flash! This just in! There are lots of people in Latin America who call for revolution. If you travel there, you might find out why.
Anything more than words?
Proof?
That's nothing new for Latin American leaders. By comparative standards, he ain't all that bad on that score.
So if someone refuses to sell us oil, that is justification to kill them?
I wouldn't argue that. But how about something more than "sounds like some asshole punk" as a justification for assassination? If that was the standard, I suspect you wouldn't have made it out of your teens. (Not that you are any different than anyone else in that respect.)
I don't know. Do we put assassinations to a vote or something? Is there some kind of online petition we can sign where if we get enough signatures the guy is toast? |
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Terrorists target innocent people almost exclusively. There is a difference between taking out a terrorist threat and BEING a terrorist threat. Most, thankfully, can see that difference quite clearly. |
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Yeah, with the legal justification, you have to have some evidence that you can show in court. The moral justification is easier -- you just want him dead and think that is the moral thing to do. Do you know any court in the world that accepts the "moral" justification in the absence of legal justification?
Where does it say that in the Constitution?
so part of the "moral" guidance is when to whack people? Must be Tony Soprano's church. Do these Christian leaders have any standards for how pissed off we have to be before we start whacking people? |
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I said if he gets out of line, and by some reports, he already has. If he is an enemy of the US then we should take steps to get rid of him. |
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Only half right. The CINC can order military forces (or the CIA) to perform actions with only notification to Congress. Its called the War Powers Act and it is part of our law. Only EO12333 prevents us from using assassinations as a tool. |
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I only wish that people like Robertson would go do their own killing instead of praying for others to do it for them.
I'd respect that more. |
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Suites me. I'll pay for the bullet.
Yeah, it's because people like Chavez and Castro promise heaven then deliver hell and blame US for it.
His own words.
It certainly is if he's the only thing holding it back.
Hello? Does the mugger have to hit you before you defend yourself, or is the fact that he's coming at you and talking shit enough for you to take him out first?
You're arguing just for the sake of it. |
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What's wrong is America no longer has balls. Robertson is not of the new generations, he still speaks plain. While I don't agree with a lot of what he has to say, sometimes he's just spot on. Blind pig/acorn. |
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You got that right!!! |
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+1 |
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Seriously, you have a two-year old's understanding of Chrisianity, but seem quite willing to mock it. I guess ignorance really is bliss. |
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day...
Robertson is moron. Even if you agree with him on this topic, he's shot off his mouth so much in the past that no one will take him serious. Need a reminder of the great words of wisdom from him? And don't forget that genius Jerry Here's some great insight into the reasons for the 9/11 attacks on america... It was the terrorists' fault right? Not according to Jerry and Pat
EPOCH |
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Some of that is true. The ACLU has worked to undermine common sense security in many ways.
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That's not what he said. |
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Amazes me that folks listen to anything that whackjob has to say.
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Most people don't. But some will defend him and what he says simply because some that are habitual Christian-bashers will come down hard on him for being Christian, rather than being crazy. People have a tendency to align themselves into groups of two - those that are with me and those that are against me. Robertson, despite his looniness, is nominally a Christian, so he gets the benefit of the doubt because he's in the club, so to speak. Still others seem to agree with him in this thread that Chavez is such a threat that he needs to be dealt with immediately and covertly. Myself, I find the very idea of assassination, outside of war, should be frowned upon and not lightly considered. It's a very dishonorable practice, especially when we're talking about the leader of a sovereign foreign nation with whom we trade and maintain diplomacy with. Assassinating leaders in that manner will only give the US the reputation of literally stabbing others in the back. Also, anyone that's going to stand on a pillar of morality and claim to be a man of God should not be dirtying his hands so. I find it hilarious that JW777 thinks that there's a difference between him calling for an assassination and actually hiring a hitman. Islamic clerics call for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews all the time, and even if they don't fire the shot, detonate the bomb, or give the order directly we hold them responsible. ETA: Actually, I think there's also a "But he's OUR asshole" sentiment out there as well - that somehow, all the nastiness and dickheadedness in the world is acceptable if it's agreeable to me. I disagree. |
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Oh - I think the number of times Pat's little sound clip is going to be played on TV's across the globe might be a tad surprising. Of course, nobody here (well, almost nobody) takes him and his tilting head seriously, but that's not what is going to be reported. What's going to happen is that he’ll be identified as a former Republican Presidential candidate and Christian leader, and then his words will be translated verbatim: "I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it… It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop." Thanks to Pat Robertson, and people like him, the phrase "U.S. imperialism" has currency once again. Great. |
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I happen to agree with him that Chavez should be taken out, however, I don't agree with saying it on national TV and all....It should "just happen" and then we should say "how about that...how sad, here's some flowers."
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I wouldn't cry any tears if something would happen to Chavez, I just don't like giving our enemies more recruiting materials, especially when legitimate options exist for dealing with that tinpot dictator. |
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We already tried the velvet glove approach and it failed. CIA DO tried to help the opposition come into power, by funding them and helping them organize, and the opposition movement failed. Time to take the gloves off -- but don't telegraph the world about it, as you said. |
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I could live with that. For the record, I'm no fan of Robertson. I still remember that whacko going off on the 700 Club about how Raiders of the Lost Ark was intended to send us astray from the true Word of God. I just happen to agree with him that the United States (or someone else) should remove that tinhorn little fuck from power by any means necessary. That's all. |
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I wouldn't complain either if he fell and cracked his head open in the shower - but the second the guy catches the flu - guess who the anti-US idjits are going to blame?
Far better to plant a few tons of coke in his garage, have him picked up, and plop him in the same cell as Cara de Piña . Shit, I'd even be in favor of giving the two of them a deck of cards to help pass the time. |
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Precisely. WTF is the deal with showing your cards? It's one thing for a nation to rattle sabers, another for Joe Blow to spout off about overthrowing soveriegn nations unless it's some quarter section island in the middle of the ocean. |
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So you want this guy to die, but a tyrant to live? That's crazy. Sgatr15 |
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Uh-huh.
What did he say then? |
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His point was that it was a punishment from an angry God, not that the ACLU was undermining security. But read what you want. |
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Will do, just as you do. |
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He sure is a looney fucker. Luckily a large percentage of our population are mentally ill or just plain fucked up, otherwise poor Pat wouldn't have much of a following.
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Well it is a darn good thing that so many Christian ministers "dirtied" their hands by fighting in our Revolutionary war. Else we might not have a country.
Of course there is a difference. There is a difference between calling for the death penalty for a child molesting murderer and uwaiting outside the courtroom to shoot him myself. There is a difference between voicing an opinion on foreign policy and deciding to carry out your own foreign policy. But those hell bent on seeing no difference between a man on TV calling for the US government to kill a single man who is breathing threats against the US and is cozying up with enemies and radical islamists who are calling for the wanton killing of anyone and sanctioning the specific targeting of innocent people by the droves will simply see what they WANT to see.
I have a serious dislike for Bill Clinton. But if Bill Clinton is right on something, Bill Clinton is right. I can stand with him where I agree with him without doing violence to my conscience. |
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So it seems you are in favor of charachter assasination.... A nice idea, but he would just blame everything on a vast right wing conspiracy anyway. |
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It is my understanding that King David was a man of God, and he prayed for the death of his enemies in some of the Psalms. If you want to take it to even a higher level, one could consider The Angel of Death the ultimate Hitman, and God gave him an assignment against the Egyptians, and sent and angel to kill the Assyrians who had Jerusalem besieged in the book of Isaiah. |
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David did pray for vengance from his enemies. God did indeed give the angel of death an assignment to kill the firstborn of Egypt. Jesus, contrary to what many people think, is not a hippie. He IS Love, but He is also King. You don't mess with The King. |
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