...and BOY, am I PISSED.

Did you see the dancing that Chuckles The Clown Schumer, the future Attorney General of the DOJ (when Hillary gets elected), did on the "flashbang" issue? "Anybody who knows anything about this stuff says it's not a grenade!"

Chuckles The Clown, world-renowned weapons expert.

And the FBI pukes lying about not shooting into the compound, and them running over the dying Branch Davidians with the Bradleys...

It made me MAD.  

and the worst part is: we pay them to do this bullshit

I have not seen it,are you saying the Gobmint lied to us? But really is this at Blockbuster?,where do i find it?

Quoted: I have not seen it,are you saying the Gobmint lied to us? But really is this at Blockbuster?,where do i find it?

Amazon.com

You should read the reviews of it there.

Link

Basically, dont fuck with the goverment.

The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did.


No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot!

Federal agents - 1
Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12)

Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12)

guess you didn't see it, or know people from waco. they were murdered

Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) guess you didn't see it, or know people from waco. they were murdered

I've seen multiple movies/videos on Waco.  Thanks.

And no, I dont hang around wacko-psychotic religious freaks who have incestual relations and go against the laws.



Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug*
If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".  

Quoted: I have not seen it,are you saying the Gobmint lied to us? But really is this at Blockbuster?,where do i find it?

If you have Tivo or a DVR, search your listings. I see it on tv quite often.

Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12)

The government went in shooting check the infra red footage yourself if you like, no survivor from the Davideans was EVER convicted of any crime, and the charges against Koresh (alleged to have illegal machineguns....) were complete BS, and no illegal machineguns were ever found in the charred wreckage of the compound though a number of REGISTERED ones were, infact if you read the list of items found it reads like the origional was written in crayon with such items listed as "AK-47 lower recievers" of which there is no such thing, and even if he did have one the laws against it are unconstitutional, and he, and his people certainly did not deserve to be BURNED TO DEATH for exercising a right....  The charges of child abuse were not even in the ATF's juristiction, and have never been proven infact the charge was leveled just for propaganda....  If they wanted to arrest Koresh they could have done so at any time, by simply picking him up in town they did not need to raid the compound, they even could have picked him up there he had a good relashionship with the local cops and even had some out there SHOOTING WITH HIM a few days earlier, they would have just had to go to the door and knock, but instead they wanted a media specticle in order to justify there budget....  The Davideons may have been somewhat off, but no more so then the Mormons, and had been around for over 50 years....  Put yourself in there place your isolated, and suddenly a bunch of people dressed in black, and wearing masks come running out of a truck shooting at you, without identifieing themselves (the first shots were fired at the steel front door, the door, and the video tape covering the door have both been conveniantly "misplaced"....), what would you do?....  Infact there are multipal 911 recordings from people in the compound reporting that they were under attack....  You say they deserved it did the BABYS, and CHILDREN deserve it to?....  So much tear gas was pumped into the building that autopsies showed that most of the babys and children choked to death on the tear gas before the fire even started, those that didn't were burned to death, the fire engines were even deliberately held back untill the fire had already burned it'self out....  Those that managed to escape the fire were gunned down, or run over by tanks, again check the video, there is also alot more to post but I'm getting pissed, why don't you actually try watching the movie it lays it out pretty well....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) guess you didn't see it, or know people from waco. they were murdered I've seen multiple movies/videos on Waco.  Thanks. And no, I dont hang around wacko-psychotic religious freaks who have incestual relations and go against the laws. Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".

Why are you on these boards again?

10 pages..IBTL.

Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12)

And the little kids trapped in there?  They got what they deserved too?

Quoted: Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".

Translation:  Do not resist the government and you will be OK.

Submit.

Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) And the little kids trapped in there?  They got what they deserved too?

Koresh did it.

Was this the show that discussed with IR experts who clearly ID'ed the agents around back ambush escaping BDs running from the fire?

and then grind the guy in the tracks of the tank-like vehicle?

Nice.


Fucking Jerry Reno's crowd.

and what about the hooker with the ATF who was rounding up press people to go cover the action (as they were staging the teams)?

That atrocity was not investigated to the length it needed to be, and heads didn't roll as they should have.

87 dead............. Many of them children

Quoted: And no, I dont hang around wacko-psychotic religious freaks who have incestual relations and go against the laws.

Does the ATF have a new "Sex Crimes" unit we don't know about?

Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".

That's why 100 armed agents showed up with a battering ram and submachine guns, right?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) guess you didn't see it, or know people from waco. they were murdered I've seen multiple movies/videos on Waco.  Thanks. And no, I dont hang around wacko-psychotic religious freaks who have incestual relations and go against the laws. Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".

I bet it was the made for TV version.

This was one of the shows that changed my wife's mind about our harmless Govt. She had heard me spout off about upchucky Schumer but did not realize just how much of a SOB he was until she watched him in the hearings. She understood after that quite well. He is infamous for asking a "loaded" question, then immediately dismissing the "witness", not allowing them to answer.

Watch the 2nd tape, NEW REVALATIONS


and you'll be even MORE pissed off.

Quoted: The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did.

NO, the government went in for "THE SHOW" with the intention of kicking ass.

Quoted: Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died. They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation. They chose not too. *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died. The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree

Koresh TRIED to cooperate.   He INVITED the ATF to come out and inspect the guns.  ATF refused.


Koresh met them at the door, ATF opened fire.


THere was no way to do what the government wanted, except to die

[JanetReno]CS gas will not harm babies[/JanetReno]

no survivor from the Davideans was EVER convicted of any crime,

Several of them were convicted of possession of destructive devices (grenades) and either possession of a machine gun or firing on federal officers. The jury found them not guilty but the judge threw it out and gave them  maximum sentences.

They got railroaded even after getting out of the fire alive.

The Davidians were religious kooks, but if that's illegal then a lot of ARFCOMMERS are in trouble, too.

They didn't deserve to be burned to death.

The government behaved shamefully before, during and after.

Quoted: no survivor from the Davideans was EVER convicted of any crime, Several of them were convicted of possession of destructive devices (grenades) and either possession of a machine gun or firing on federal officers. The jury found them not guilty but the judge threw it out and gave them  maximum sentences. They got railroaded even after getting out of the fire alive.

I remember this happening, but does anyone know the legal mechanism a judge can use to nullify a jury vote?

Plain and simple:


There was a massive coverup because the agents fucked up.

I've been to Waco and they have a little building there with photos and such.

If you ever see the pics of the FBI agents standing like they are trophy hunters over the burned remains it would make your blood boil.

Coming soon to a town near you.

ATF / Fed Agents could have arrested Koresh without incident on any day that he either left the compound to go into town or anytime that he went for a jog down the road

This would have protected the children and by removing Koresh the remaining Davidians would have probably complied with any search of the compound

( And they knew this but wanted to go in force and serve the warrant with Koresh inside )

Feds knew Koresh's instability and yet provoked the confrontation

You know the saying " We can do this the hard way or the easy way "  Well the Feds chose the Hard way and as a result many people died

Quoted: ATF / Fed Agents could have arrested Koresh without incident on any day that he either left the compound to go into town or anytime that he went for a jog down the road This would have protected the children and by removing Koresh the remaining Davidians would have probably complied with any search of the compound ( And they knew this but wanted to go in force and serve the warrant with Koresh inside ) Feds knew Koresh's instability and yet provoked the confrontation You know the saying " We can do this the hard way or the easy way "  Well the Feds chose the Hard way and as a result many people died

True.

ATF called the press beforehand and wanted a big dog and pony show. They could have picked up Koresh anytime without incident. They need a big boost before budget time.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) guess you didn't see it, or know people from waco. they were murdered I've seen multiple movies/videos on Waco.  Thanks. And no, I dont hang around wacko-psychotic religious freaks who have incestual relations and go against the laws. Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".

Is it "lets bitch about Waco" time again?   Thought this crap was restricted to one thread only

Quoted: Is it "lets bitch about Waco" time again?   Thought this crap was restricted to one thread only

Aparently it doesn't bother you to see your government assemble a quasi-military force around a civilian residence, lie about drugs in order to violate Posse Comitatus Act, then systematically set conditions that ensured the death of 86 innocent civilians?

And Yes, I said innocent. We are innocent until PROVEN guilty in America, or at least we are supposed to be.

A lot of you dismiss the Davidians as religious kooks because they don't believe like you do. Personally, I am not a believer in any religion so by other people's logic should I view any person who believes in any religion to be a "Kook" than can be treated poorly because they believe differently than I do?

From everything I've seen, the Davidians were like minded people who wanted to do their own thing. They were not isolationists, and in fact were well known and liked by the town in Waco. Being "different" made them an easy mark for the ATF, and things got out of hand quickly when ATF screwed it up.

Dave

Quoted: I've been to Waco and they have a little building there with photos and such. If you ever see the pics of the FBI agents standing like they are trophy hunters over the burned remains it would make your blood boil.

You gotta be shitting me.

vmax84

I have seen it and it makes me very angry every time, I will never vote for a Democrate again or anyone associtaed with these people.  God, I would love to see this brought up if Hillary runs in 08, could you emagin. Side note: I also place the deaths at Oklahoma City at these (ATF)peoples feet, all those people would be hear today if this had not happened, I am not saying TV and rest didn't deserve there penality, but it could have been avoided.

Quoted: Is it "lets bitch about Waco" time again?   Thought this crap was restricted to one thread only

Maybe you could quit reading them if they bug you so much.

Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12)

My initial thoughts would be a violation of common decency. I'll just say you have no clue.

Quoted: Quoted: I've been to Waco and they have a little building there with photos and such. If you ever see the pics of the FBI agents standing like they are trophy hunters over the burned remains it would make your blood boil. You gotta be shitting me. vmax84

No, he's telling it like it was. It was a party atmosphere for the conquering.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've been to Waco and they have a little building there with photos and such. If you ever see the pics of the FBI agents standing like they are trophy hunters over the burned remains it would make your blood boil. You gotta be shitting me. vmax84 No, he's telling it like it was. It was a party atmosphere for the conquering.

Don't forget ATF running their flag up the pole in final victory.

Operation showtime.

Quoted: I have seen it and it makes me very angry every time, I will never vote for a Democrate again or anyone associtaed with these people.  God, I would love to see this brought up if Hillary runs in 08, could you emagin. Side note: I also place the deaths at Oklahoma City at these (ATF)peoples feet, all those people would be hear today if this had not happened, I am not saying TV and rest didn't deserve there penality, but it could have been avoided.

How can you even say that the ATF was responsible for Oklahoma City, whether or not they fucked up in Waco is a different situation.  Are you trying to say Timothy McVeigh is a hero???? Just because they messed up in Waco doesn't give some wacked out pshyco like Mc Veigh the right to take the law into his own hands and seek retribution.  He was an asshat and he got what he deserved, he is DEAD....

The Feds killed alot of kids who should not have had to die because their parents were fucked in the head.  They could have waited them out.

Quoted: I have seen it and it makes me very angry every time, I will never vote for a Democrate again or anyone associtaed with these people.  God, I would love to see this brought up if Hillary runs in 08, could you emagin. Side note: I also place the deaths at Oklahoma City at these (ATF)peoples feet, all those people would be hear today if this had not happened, I am not saying TV and rest didn't deserve there penality, but it could have been avoided.

Like the ATF, McVeigh killed innocents (including children) who did not deserve death. He, like those involved at WACO, is soley responsible for his inexcusable actions.

Quoted: Quoted: I have seen it and it makes me very angry every time, I will never vote for a Democrate again or anyone associtaed with these people.  God, I would love to see this brought up if Hillary runs in 08, could you emagin. Side note: I also place the deaths at Oklahoma City at these (ATF)peoples feet, all those people would be hear today if this had not happened, I am not saying TV and rest didn't deserve there penality, but it could have been avoided. How can you even say that the ATF was responsible for Oklahoma City, whether or not they fucked up in Waco is a different situation.  Are you trying to say Timothy McVeigh is a hero???? Just because they messed up in Waco doesn't give some wacked out pshyco like Mc Veigh the right to take the law into his own hands and seek retribution.  He was an asshat and he got what he deserved, he is DEAD....

Well...  I have mixed feelings.  I can sure understand the anger and should it ever come to violence on a future date there will not be some guy with fangs and an evil laugh with "FEDERAL GOVERNMENT" tattoed on his forehead that will be the target.  No, it will be hundreds and thousands of innocent folks just doing a job an following policies laid out by their employer.  Police, FBI, soldiers, ATF, bean counters, paper stampers, drivers, maintenence guys, tax enforcement agents, ect.   They will be people with wives, and kids, and birthdays, and dreams.  They will be the people who's work is to see you dead or in jail.

Now, I can't say what happened in OK was right, I won't say that and I don't.  The situation is not to the point of shooting, there is still a political process, and "the man" was not at the door.  Those two were nothing more than angry men who killed a truckload of people to show they were angry.  What a blow for freedom they struck huh?  They could have spent that effort in getting a political revenge but instead they made "right-wing" a synonym for "whacko".  Thanks!

The point is that the blanket statement "they were just everyday folks doing a job" is not a complete  bar to them being involved in a conflict with government.  If it were then all the .gov has to do to make itself the-people-proof is put a daycare in every building and have staff 24/7.

Quoted: The Feds killed alot of kids who should not have had to die because their parents were fucked in the head.  They could have waited them out.

Someone else who sees the light.  Thank god.

THat movie definatly made my blood boil but it was obvious that both sides were screwed up. Once four agents died they did'nt give a shit about children, they torched the place after it appeared that Koresh would not come out. But lets face it, when the ATF came knocking the davidians were waiting for them with thier guns drawn and loaded, they knew about the ATF ambush before hand. Who shot first? I dunno. was'nt there. But it did show how sloppy the ATF was in thier work and how much they were cowboys. They could've resolved the situation peacefully but they'd rather "strong arm" people on tape to make a name for themselves. Well they made a name for themsleves........

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've been to Waco and they have a little building there with photos and such. If you ever see the pics of the FBI agents standing like they are trophy hunters over the burned remains it would make your blood boil. You gotta be shitting me. vmax84 No, he's telling it like it was. It was a party atmosphere for the conquering.

Govenment out of control.  

vmax84

The adult Wackos deserved what they got.  And may the parents of the children burn in hell forever for involving their children in an armed standoff surrounded by gasoline and in the "care" of a man who was in love with the idea of a conflagiration ending to his people.

Life is tough when you're stupid.  Life is dangerous when you're crazy.  Those people were both.  it was only a matter of time.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) guess you didn't see it, or know people from waco. they were murdered I've seen multiple movies/videos on Waco.  Thanks. And no, I dont hang around wacko-psychotic religious freaks who have incestual relations and go against the laws. Dont try to turn this onto the Government as their fault those people died.  They knew what was coming and what they could do to deflate the situation.  They chose not too.  *shrug* If Koresh had surrendered to the "big, bad Gubmint", no one would have died.  The government wasnt out to just go for a "rough & tough, shoot'em fun spree".   Why are you on these boards again?

Why are you here?

Remember, it's a "free country"?  

Quoted: The Davidians were religious kooks, but if that's illegal then a lot of ARFCOMMERS are in trouble, too. They didn't deserve to be burned to death. The government behaved shamefully before, during and after.

True however, I think a GOOD MAJORITY if not everyone on here would consider incestual relations with little children as well as marrying them, a little fucking far out there Rodent.

Quoted: Quoted: The Davidians were religious kooks, but if that's illegal then a lot of ARFCOMMERS are in trouble, too. They didn't deserve to be burned to death. The government behaved shamefully before, during and after. True however, I think a GOOD MAJORITY if not everyone on here would consider incestual relations with little children as well as marrying them, a little fucking far out there Rodent.

Indeed! and the solution to the problem when you find such a situation is to shoot and burn the children to death.

Quoted: Quoted: Basically, dont fuck with the goverment. The government went in peacefully in the beginning so the bloodshed didnt have to happen.  Koresh forced them to do what they did. No sweat off my back.  Go Federal Agents!  Woot! Federal agents - 1 Psycho-wacko religious fuckers who do illegal stuff - (-12) And the little kids trapped in there?  They got what they deserved too?

Holy fuck.

It is fucking pathetic at how many of you people cannot read.
Did I say anything about anyone "deserving being killed"?  Let alone kids?  God-fucking-damn.

No one there deserved to die.  But when you got fucking 200 federal agents knocking at your door, fully locked and loaded, with fucking APC's.....why do you resist?  Only a fucking idiot or a person who's guilty is going to resist.
There is always posts on here talking about "what would you do if your door was knocked down at 3am with cops in there?"  No one ever says "Well, I'd resist."
A *normal*, *reasonable*, *sane* person is not going to resist the goverment on charges that are serious like that, LET ALONE when 200 agents with fully auto weapons and CS/tear gas are at their door.

However, Koresh wasnt exactly *normal, reasonable nor sane*.....now was he.