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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:23:51 PM EDT
[#1]
probably out for the holidays
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:24:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Maybe they are smart enough to take some time off over the holidays. ETA slow as usual. That's probably why that guy above me has me by 6 months and 23558 posts. 
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:25:20 PM EDT
[#3]
After what they did to the good citizens of California this year, fuck'em.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:30:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Can you please explain? |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:33:43 PM EDT
[#5]
 we have good citizens in california? 
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:34:11 PM EDT
[#6]
+1.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:34:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Starting on page five. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=260461&page=5 |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:36:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Seems to me the assholes here are the DOJ people, not Fulton.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:38:27 PM EDT
[#9]
dunno, looks like there's plenty of that going around... 
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:38:40 PM EDT
[#10]
You are entitled to your opinion. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:42:06 PM EDT
[#11]
I just don't get how a company like Fulton would send things like lowers WITHOUT knowing the laws of the state in question.
Something very fishy here.... ETA: And people wonder why I refuse to live in California. 
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:44:09 PM EDT
[#12]
... and that's all I'm gonna say. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:45:45 PM EDT
[#13]
The fact of the matter is this: Fulton checked the law. Fulton's lowers were deemed legal for sale. Fulton shipped lowers to distributers in CA. The CA DoIJ leaned on Fulton to stop the legal sale of legal lowers. Fulton caved. Fulton threatened legal action against distributors who were shipped legal lowers by Fulton. Fulton sucks. But that's just my opinion. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:47:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmmmmm......
Well, that may be, but even then, my original assertion that the real asshols are the CDOJ stands. God, what a fucked-up state.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:51:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Basically, Fulton was pussy-whipped for obeying the law and they turned on fellow gun-owners to appease The Man.
Like I said, Fuck'em.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:59:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Mine too! |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 4:09:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Off for the holidays. OK.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 5:19:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Say what you want about Fulton and their dealings with the Kali Republic, to me they have always been a small but first rate company with good products, fair prices and great customer service. They will continue to get my business for as long as they keep that up.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 6:07:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn, that's just messed up. So I wrote all those letters in support of the "Protection in Lawful Commerce Act" and they turn around and stab the gun community in the back. Thanks Fulton! |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 7:15:59 PM EDT
[#20]
I got a screaming deal on 500 rounds of Black hills 60 Gr Vmax reman. Best price I've yet seen and free shipping. Hard to complain about that.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 7:29:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Hi XXX,
We [Fulton Armory] called UPS today and requested that they return back to us the shipment of 100 receivers we sent out last week to you. If for any reason UPS delivers them in error, Fulton Armory demands that you return all 100 of them back to us. We will credit your credit card the moment the receivers are received by us, as well as reimburse you for standard ground shipping, handling and insurance. If they are not returned, we will call the CADOJ and list them as stolen. ATF allows that any licensee may refuse to sell to anyone, for any reason. I so now refuse to sell our lowers to you. The California DOJ called me today and informed me that even though our receivers are technically legal for sale in CA, we __could__ still be prosecuted by any of the over 100 DA's in California. An essential fact that you withheld from me in our communications. Had I been aware of this critical information, and that there was some legal dispute, I would have never shipped these receivers to California. As mentioned earlier today via our phone con, the second 100 receivers that you ordered will not be shipped. It seems these days, there is legal, and then there's "legal". Who knew. Who can know these things? A copy of this email will be faxed/mailed to the CADOJ. W. Clint McKee Owner Fulton Armory [email protected] http://www.fulton-armory.com How the hell could CA prosecute someone who doesnt even reside in the state?  And since when is it illegal to send firearms to Federaly licensed dealers? |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 8:00:31 PM EDT
[#22]
+1 It sure is easy to say what risk somebody else should take if it doesn't affect you....  Lets see; We hate Colt for not wanting to sell to civies We hate S&W for its dealings with the Gov't We hated Bushmaster for paying up I think I will go buy the domain name of Sling shot.com. Might be worth some money in a few years, since we now hate a gun builder with like (9) employee's for not wanting to deal with a Fuck Up state. I think sling shots are already banned in Kali.... 
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Posted: 12/30/2005 9:51:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Yes, we do. Starting with me. Steve |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:15:02 PM EDT
[#24]
this is kind of rediculous. you have Clint McKee who has built a reputation for himself and built a successful business through hardwork and dedication and you expect him to fall on his sword and potentially lose it all just to try and prove a point. the CA gun laws (much like the MD gun laws he operates under) are unjust, unfair, and unconstitutional however you cannot expect a man to risk his job and his business on a rediculous fight he cannot win.
how many of you critisizing him would risk your business, your home and possibly jail time to be a martyr for the residents of a state 3000mi from your home. fuck that. to all of you claiming he screwed people in CA why dont you crank out some lowers and send them to CA, or better yet, cut down some shotguns oor assemble some sten kits on muffler pipe. those laws are just as rediculous but i dont see any of you lining up to throw away your livelyhoods and possible go to jail. so lets all hate S&W for "selling out" (even though its under new ownership) lets all hate Ruger because of the Mag Ban (that expired) lets hate Bushmaster (because they settled the suit) Lets hate Colt and HK (because they wont sell to civilians) and lets all hate Clint McKee because had the good sense not to throw away his life on something so fucking stupid. WTF |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:20:57 PM EDT
[#25]
please explain how someone could go to jail for doing something that is perfectly legal? Let alone go to jail in a state that you dont reside in or even step foot in? I agree that Clint has every right to not sell to CA but his letter just seems a little too tin foilish to me. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:26:54 PM EDT
[#26]
its doesnt matter if its legal or not. he was threatened by the CA DOJ. even if he won the legal fight could break him financially. would YOU take the risk with your small business and your savings? Plus since it occured across state lines you have the issue complicated by Interstate Commerce laws. Even if the Feds didnt get involved they could try him "in absentia" find him guilty, issue a judgement which could potentially ruin him financially. think he could keep his FFL with a firearms felony in another state.
Fuck it, i think he did the right thing. some of you guys are being a little petty and rediculous about this. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:27:03 PM EDT
[#27]
+1 Just got headspace gauges for my M1 carbine. I <3 Fulton Armory. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:32:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Really? Then I guess I have been living my life all wrong. BTW, Federaly licensed firearms dealers are allowed by federal law to sell AR15's to dealers in CA. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:41:50 PM EDT
[#29]
you act like im defending the state of CA on this one. im not, what im doing is defending a man who has everything to lose and isnt willing to risk it to fight an unwinnable fight. i read the thread about the DSA lowers and all those arfcommers in CA sound just pathetic. whining about manufacturers choosing not to send lowers to CA. howabout they take a little personal responsability for their situation and decide whats better, staying in CA or having an AR. no one said they HAVE to live in CA. these CA residents who are buying up unlisted lowers at an astonishing rate have failed to be effective politically. but somehow they expect Clint McKee and Chris at POF to fight city hall for them. thats retarded. there are thousands maybe tens of thousands of gun owners in CA that would give their left nut to be able to buy ARs like the residents of free states and they havent been able to challenge or defeat the laws but somehow a small businessman who doesnt even fucking live there is expected to take on the fight for them at risk of great financial peril. thats irrational and indefensible and i defy any of you to provide a logical argument as to WHY he should have taken on the CA DOJ.
smart ass comments dont count as arguments either. i want a structured and logical argument as to why he should gamble his business on this. convince me. FWIW, i spent the first 25yrs of my life in MD. i didnt like waiting periods, AWBs, mag bans, or ballistic fingerprinting and all the other liberal crap that goes on in a state that would pass such laws. so you know what i did...I FUCKING MOVED. which turned out to be much more effective than sitting on my ass and crying about it and hoping someone else commits financial suicide to try and win back my rights. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:43:00 PM EDT
[#30]
They can suck a cock. It's not their refusal to sell that's at issue, it's their weasely (and illegal) preemptive threat to "list them as stolen" with the CADOJ.
I would have told them to fuck themselves just to see the drama play out. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 11:23:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Okay Wob gob.... Start a company making lowers Sell to Kali Get leaned on by the Kaliban DOJ "Lean back" on them. Lawyer up against the State of Kali Good luck.  sorry wob, you are on the wrong side of this. Sure, I wish he had stood his ground, but I won't fault a man for running away from a fight he can't win or afford to win unless I am willing to risk it all and fight with him. And I am not. Are you? The "legal threats" are just saber rattling to please the Kaliban. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 11:28:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Well now i dont have to give Fulton any money. FUCK them.what can CA do to them. And on another note FUCK CA why would you live there and pay taxes to a FUCKED up goverment like that?
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Posted: 12/31/2005 12:05:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Well said Devildog!
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Posted: 12/31/2005 1:44:11 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 12/31/2005 1:52:15 AM EDT
[#35]
And theres alot of other companies out there just as good in every respect. White Oak (both sides), Compass Lake, the list goes on and on. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 2:15:50 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 12/31/2005 2:29:37 AM EDT
[#37]
One man against an entire states financial and judicial resources. Screw standing up to face them. Read some books on military tactics, when against a foe of greater strength never attack headfirst!
California is one state of 50, no big loss in my book. You elect the bastards, you live with the laws they create. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 3:06:10 AM EDT
[#38]
I'm not familiar with CA laws, but Wisconsin can prosecute somone who never sets foot in Wisconsin. Statute 939.03(1)(b) and 939.03(1)(c). Never set foot in the state, but knowingly sell a prohibited item to a person in Wisconsin, = subject to criminal prosecution in Wisconsin. Extraditable warrant, anyone?
Assuming CA has a similar law (I bet most states do), he'd be an idiot to sell receivers in CA after getting notification from CA DOJ. Don't like it? Get rich selling your own receivers. The profit on 100 receivers probably won't even pay for your defense attorney's first couple of hours work. I wouldn't touch this with a 10' pole. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 5:56:34 AM EDT
[#39]
what fulton was FORCED to do sucks. i don't fault them. i personally would not hae the resources for such a legal fight, nor would i have any real desire to take one for the team for California. Cali is a lost hope and any thought of having sane firearm legislation their is now a pipe dream. Better to cut his losses and stay in business than risk his lifes work for a lost cause.
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Posted: 12/31/2005 6:42:34 AM EDT
[#40]
If I had purchased lowers from Fulton, Fulton had them shipped, and I received them...and Fulton pulled that with me, I'd have a very difficult time ever trusting Fulton ever again. Actually, it wouldn't be difficult. They'd be on my shitlist forever. Guys, threatening a legitimate buyer (who has possession of "paid for" goods) with an accusation of thievery is low, petty, asinine, and ridiculous. Remember, Fulton was essentially calling his legitimate customer a CRIMINAL. How'd you like that, if you were an FFL/distributor? |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 7:11:22 AM EDT
[#41]
I might add one other thing about all this. If the CA DoInJ is ON RECORD (it is) in saying Fulton's lowers are perfectly legal for sale in CA, then *how* can a DA levy charges against Fulton? On what basis can a trial begin?
When the DA brings the charges before the court, what law does the DA cite? Especially when Fulton's lawyer hands over a LEGAL BRIEF from the DoInJ itself that declares the lowers perfectly legal? Of course, now that Fulton has rolled over and is attempting to accuse a legitimate customer of theft, we will never know.
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Posted: 12/31/2005 9:38:24 AM EDT
[#42]
From Clint:
<salutation snipped> > Yes, I did write and send that letter, *_in confidence_*, for two sets of > eyes only. It was NOT offered for all the public peeking toms. The > sensitive personal trust implicit in the nature of the message was > apparently betrayed. > > Fulton Armory is a tiny little custom shop that works very hard every > single month to support 7 families, and, the Constitution. > > A _single_ law suit would destroy us all, including all of our support of > many different RKBA orgs, both national and local. > > The Great State of California IS a sovereign state, after all. Perhaps the > most powerful state in all of _These United States_. > > Thusly, it's up to the people of her state to make unequivocal laws that > reflect the wishes of her citizens, and, laws that can allow imports and > exports from and to her that are also unequivocal. > > Loopholes are always a fool's errand and reliably occur just before > checkmate at best, or backfire with a fury that sets back the 2nd > Amendment cause, at worst. > > The fight for California's rights is up to her citizens. The Constitution > tells us so. If everyone wanting, or contemplating, or arguing for, the > issue of a _loophole lower_ had supported, with the same intensity of cash > and personal activity, the RKBA rights fight, perhaps all this would be > moot today. > > One $150.00 lower will never solve the disintegration of your state's > constitutional rights. My 7 families will not be sacrificed to prove your > losses. > > I hope this helps allays any conspiracy/red herrings regarding Fulton > Armory's position. > > Clint > W. Clint McKee > Owner > Fulton Armory > [email protected] > http://www.fulton-armory.com I hope this makes clear the agonizing dilemma we face. Regards, Walt |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 9:39:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Fulton didnt "roll over" they were warned by the CA DOJ what "might" happen which is a common legal threat. Wob you state in your last reply that he should have HIS lawyers cite the DOJ brief that states his lowers are legal. who's going to pay that lawyer? Fulton isnt Colt. hell they arent even Bushmaster (which is still a "small business") it is a very small operation. if he shipped 500 recievers to CA lets assume he makes $20 profit per reciever thats $10,000. which... ohhhhh i would guess would pay for a week of a legal team good enough to take on the CA DOJ. why dont you mortgage your homestead to help out the legal fight in CA
Skammy, your arguments are weak. you are passionate about the issue because you live in California but you know what. we are all responsible for our lot in life and you have decided that living in California is worth having abridged freedoms. you are CHOOSING to live in a state that is slowly outlawing your hobby. FYI, i was very active in MD polotics. i met my wife while volunteering for the campaign of Ellen Sauerbrey. my Wife was a recently graduated attorney on the legal team for the campaign and i was a volunteer at HQ. Mrs Sauerbrey was defeated by Parris Glendenning in the most crooked election you can imagine. turns out cemetary residents and still born babies were voting democratic that year. in the time of Glendennings administration MD'ers became subject to a state AWB, a state mag ban, ballistic fingerprinting, and built in safety locks on all handguns. but you know what...those things didnt affect me because i MOVED! and so did my mom, and my dad, and my brother and about 3 of my closest friends with similar values. and stop claiming that he is making illegal threats to dealers. if he refunds their money and they keep the lowers then they would indeed be stolen. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 9:45:07 AM EDT
[#44]
and another thing...
all you guys whining and crying about Clint McKee selling out...i havent heard a single one of you commit to mortgage your house, and your business and you livelyhood to take on a legal fight 3000mi from your home. put your money where your mouth is. mortgage your house, your farm, your small business, whatever you got and pledge that money to help Fulton fight the state of CA...... if you dont sacirfice your nest egg you will have "rolled over", pussied out and are every bit as comtemptable as Clint McKee. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 9:47:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Contacting Fulton Armory...
I'm never sure whether I should laugh hysterically or sob inconsolably whenever I see "I can't contact Fulton Armory." Whenever I call 1-301-490-9485 between 9AM and 5PM EST and press "1," I get Andy. Oh, once in a great while she's juggling a couple of calls & I go to voice mail, but that's maybe once a month. BTW since I'm in Ohio I depend on the same phone to call the shop as our customers do, so my comment is empricially based. Further, anyone can write "[email protected]" or "[email protected]" if he or she can't remember "[email protected]" and get an answer. Sure, sometimes I get swamped & so far behind I lose a mail, but that's once a month or so again. Generally a second message with a polite reminder gets my burro in gear. So be of good cheer, and Happy New Year to all!  Warmest regards, Walt |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 9:49:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Fulton Armory is number one in my book. I have bought a ton of parts and ammo from them and have been happy every time.
G45 |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 9:49:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Oh, and a sincere thanks to all who understand the CA lower situation and our dilemma.
Very best regards, Walt |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 10:55:01 AM EDT
[#48]
I happen to own and operate a business of my own. It's not in the firearms industry, it's in the construction industry. If everything I was doing is legal, and is furthermore *described* as legal by the Attorney General's office here in CT, and I had documented proof from that office, you bet I would be fighting tooth and nail to conduct those certified legal transactions. Clint can do whatever he wishes, it's his company, I understand that. However, as a business owner, I would have been severely pissed off if he accused ME of theft and threatened to FILE A FALSE POLICE REPORT OF THE SAME. That is my biggest beef with what he did. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 11:01:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Clint put a new barrel on my M1, shipped it back to me. UPS broke the bedded stock, it appears from looking at the box they threw it and it landed on the muzzle. No damage to the muzzle, but the stock was split in three places. Clint replaced the stock and hand guards at no cost to me. He even rebedded it as well. UPS denied his damage claim!!!.
Clint has done other barrel jobs for me and I have had no problems with his service. I highly recommend him. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 11:22:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Perhaps Clint overreacted.
I might too if the CA AG's office called me with unveiled threats. Broadcasting a private message has its own deserved obbrobrium. Very best regards, Walt |
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