With the roll you own thread I started yesterday, I thought I would repost this..

First of all. Mods if you feel the need to move this feel free. Im posting it in GD because a few guys were interested in the process.

Ok collect some 22 lr cases. Cull out all of the squished ones. Take and throw into a large pot. Add water, a cup of vinegar and a table spoon of dish soap. Boil about 20 mins. Remove, rinse with clean water. Return to pot and reboil again with clean water only. After 10 mins of that strain and place on a towel to dry.

Now that they are clean. We need to now anneal the brass to make it easier to work with. So place all the empties on a large cookie sheet, One case deep. Put this in the oven and set it to self clean. 2-4 hrs later there done.

Next sort out to same brands and styles.

You should have something that looks like this.


Now to get something that we can make a bullet out of. We need to get the rim off the case. So to press #1

Press one has a punch that is a little undersized for the case this gets press into a die that is a little larger than the OD of the case.
Close up...

This process rolls the rim off the case. It will be referred to as a jacket from now on..


Next step is to cut the cores. We use a spool of lead wire. This runs into the core cutter. Make sure that you make the cores 3 Grs heaver than needed. Im making 60 gr bullets here.



Next we have to squish the cores to the proper weight. This is press #2


Cores are inserted into the die and pressed to the proper weight. There are vent holes in the bottom of the die. To allow the extra lead to extrude out. The next two Pic's shows the process.




Once swagged the cores are re-weighed and checked.


Cores and jackets are cleaned/degreased and assembled.


The dies and pinches are changed to a core seating configuration. The jacket and core are dropped into the die and with light pressure on the handle smashed into a core/jacket slug. The diameter is now .223.



After all the cores are seated. You change over to a tipping die. This die is ground with the Ogive in it. Im using a 6s. The core/jacket combo is placed into the die face down and pressed again with light pressure. You can set the width of the opening by how far you press the bullet in. The smallest tip size I can do this this die is .075. It also expands the bullet to its .224 dia.





We re-weigh the bullets after point forming. This one is 60.1 gr on average if you keep the steps clean and your mind on business you can keep it to a +- .1 gr. For comparison a box of nosler Ballistic tips can be +- .3 grns.

Here is a shot of the final product. A total formed tip can be accomplished with a tipping die. This can be either lead or plastic.


Ok I know your thinking WOW!! How much! A press runs you about $250 and 3 dies for one caliber is about $450. Lead wire is ~$22 for 10lbs. But with this setup you can create any thing you can imagine! HP, FMJ, fragmentation and blended metals to name just a few.

Coolest post in a LONG time! Wow!

tag

Interesting.

Can I place an order for 10,000 bullets

More informative than the 'Omelette in a ziplock' thread.  Kudos.

Quoted: More informative than the 'Omelette in a ziplock' thread.  Kudos.

I remember that one.. It was good!

Say, is there a way to make brass cases?

Quoted: But with this setup you can create any thing you can imagine! HP, FMJ, fragmentation and blended metals to name just a few.

Does Stan know that you are giving away his secrets again?  

SBG

whats it cost per bullet to make them?

That is very, very cool.

I'd also like to learn more about the omelete in a ziplock, though.  

Quoted: whats it cost per bullet to make them?

Just materials its about .02 cents.. And that just for the lead. The jackets you can pick up off the range.

Quoted: Say, is there a way to make brass cases?

Yup same procedure but larger scale.

I remember the first time this was posted here. (was that you?)

Anyways, excellent job and thanks - very informative.

I thought that this was a lost art.  Good on ya, dude.

Quoted: whats it cost per bullet to make them?

Okay, let's see if my math is right.

There's 7000 grains to a pound.

10 lbs = 70,000 grains

You can get something like 1111 63 grain cores out of that.

So $22 divided by 1111 = 0.019. So basically 2 cents per bullet because used .22 shells are free for the picking at any range.

Oh yeah. Thanks for reposting (is that a preemptive dupe? ) this. I loved it the first time around. I've always thought I wanted to swage my own bullets but the inital start up cost is a bit too much and I don't have a solid/heavy enough bench to do it with either. But it's still real cool.

Sweet!  I remember the first post of this.  Truly awesome.

tag

Tag

Great post! I love to start swaging bullets but the cost for the set up is high.  You can buy a lot of bullets for $700.

Is that a Corbin set up?

Tagging for later

Cool thread.  Are they accurate?  

He posted a 100yard group in the last thread. It was sub MOA.

Quoted: Cool thread.  Are they accurate?

If you keep every thing clean and do good QC. Yes they are very accurate!

Quoted: Great post! I love to start swaging bullets but the cost for the set up is high.  You can buy a lot of bullets for $700. Is that a Corbin set up?

Yup.. It helps being 10 mins away from the factory..
Ok for comparison... Berger Match Grade Varmint Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 55 Grain Hollow Point Flat Base Box of 100 Midway price $22.49 So for $700 you get 31 boxes.. or 3100 bullets..

Quoted: Cool thread.  Are they accurate?

+1 how do the fly?

Man, I wish I had money.

It would be nice to see some ballistics gell testing with this.


Maybe OldPainless could do some testing with them.

Very interesting post....Bravo!

How long does it take to produce say 100 of them?

Quoted: It would be nice to see some ballistics gell testing with this. Maybe OldPainless could do some testing with them.

I have a whole box of gel waiting to be shot... Ill have to get some pics of the ground squirrels that I have shot with them (12 foot circle of meaty chunks!).. I know that Tattoo a old time member here took a deer with one (one shot to the chest, he said it looks like a hand greanade went off in its chest).

Quoted: How long does it take to produce say 100 of them?

If the dies are all set. Less that 20 mins. most of the time is setting the dies. I usually run batches of 500 at the min, to cut down on die switching.

Pretty cool!

Wish I had the money and time.

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

tag

That was rather interesting in a "that might be useful when the SHTF" type of way.

I'll bet Mad Max wishes he had that setup in his movies.  IIFC, good ammo was as scarce as oil was in the "future."

Sounds like the future is getting pretty close though.

I assume you can make different caliber bullets with different dies?
Would you still use 22lr brass to make 45ACP JHP bullet?

For a bit of background info...
From Speers site..

A Heritage of Innovation    
Vernon Speer(1901-1978) was a man driven by his inventive nature.

A native of Iowa, Vernon served in the US Navy during World War I, stimulating his interest in aviation. At age 21, he designed and built an aircraft engine. To prove its worth, he installed it in a biplane and took it aloft. Following the war, he worked as a tool foreman for the John Deere Company. When World War II broke out, he became chief ground instructor at a Lincoln, Nebraska flying school. It was during this time he became interested in bullet making. He was briefly in the bullet business with Joyce Hornady, founder of Hornady Bullets.

In 1944, Vernon looked for a new location, one that offered good transportation, mild weather and, of course, access to great hunting. He selected Lewiston, Idaho, on the Washington-Idaho border. He rented space in the basement of a small corner grocery store and built equipment to convert fired 22 rimfire cases into .224" bullet jackets. The war effort meant that gilding metal, the preferred material for bullet jackets, was all going into government ammo plants. Reprocessing rimfire cases was Vernon's clever solution to a knotty problem. That solution put him in the bullet business for good.

Speer Bullets soon outgrew the grocery store and Vernon invested in property on Snake River Avenue, just yards from the famous Snake River. The new plant, combined with the renewed availability of gilding metal, allowed Vernon to expand his bullet line to just about every caliber a reloader could want. He continued to innovate, developing Hot-Cor bullets and the first mass-produced jacketed handgun bullets for reloaders.

Vernon's interests extended well beyond the bullet business. He became an accomplished bush pilot, no mean feat considering the many primitive back-country airstrips in Idaho. He was a student of geology and a competent hydraulic engineer. He even designed and built several small hydro-electric plants to power remote ranches in Idaho.

Vernon ran Speer Bullets until his retirement in 1966. His son Ray, who did the first Speer Reloading Manual in 1954, became the president, but Vernon continued to contribute to the company until it was sold to Omark Industries in 1975.

Speer bullets are still made in the same plant Vernon built, and that same attention to the reloaders exists today. We are proud to continue Vernon's dedication to the reloading community.

Also another company that started there... Rock Chuck Bullet Swage or RCBS.

Quoted: I assume you can make different caliber bullets with different dies? Would you still use 22lr brass to make 45ACP JHP bullet?

No you need to use a larger cup. But you can makes those out of copper/brass sheet or brass/copper water pipe!

Tag for a great post!

Being an alloy--will the brass jackets cause any accellerated wear in the barrel (over softer copper)?

Will the harder brass cause any difficulties in reloading (i.e.--harder to compress against the walls of the barrel, so causing increased pressure or gas blow-by)?   Compensate by lowering starting loads?

Wow...that is VERY cool!

HH

Quoted: Being an alloy--will the brass jackets cause any accellerated wear in the barrel (over softer copper)? Will the harder brass cause any difficulties in reloading (i.e.--harder to compress against the walls of the barrel, so causing increased pressure or gas blow-by)?   Compensate by lowering starting loads?

The brass is a bit harder, Not very much (remember the brass is in an anealed state). It will burnish the barrel and leave less fowling than copper. I have not noticed any diffrence in velocity between the brass or copper.

The jackets are thinner than a standard Copper jacket. And you cannot push these much faster than 3500 FPS.

That is just too cool!

Quoted: Quoted: Being an alloy--will the brass jackets cause any accellerated wear in the barrel (over softer copper)? Will the harder brass cause any difficulties in reloading (i.e.--harder to compress against the walls of the barrel, so causing increased pressure or gas blow-by)?   Compensate by lowering starting loads? The brass is a bit harder, Not very much (remember the brass is in an anealed state). It will burnish the barrel and leave less fowling than copper. I have not noticed any diffrence in velocity between the brass or copper. The jackets are thinner than a standard Copper jacket. And you cannot push these much faster than 3500 FPS.

You used a 22 mag case for the 60 gr... right?



<eta>

Also, these do much better out of a 1 in 12 (or 14) barrel than they do out of a 1/7.

If you push them over 3100 fps in a 1/7 they blow up at about 10 yards.

this is the second thread that deserves......


you are a god among men.  

VERY cool!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Being an alloy--will the brass jackets cause any accellerated wear in the barrel (over softer copper)? Will the harder brass cause any difficulties in reloading (i.e.--harder to compress against the walls of the barrel, so causing increased pressure or gas blow-by)?   Compensate by lowering starting loads? The brass is a bit harder, Not very much (remember the brass is in an anealed state). It will burnish the barrel and leave less fowling than copper. I have not noticed any diffrence in velocity between the brass or copper. The jackets are thinner than a standard Copper jacket. And you cannot push these much faster than 3500 FPS. You used a 22 mag case for the 60 gr... right?

You can fit up to a 65 gr in a standard 22 case. With the mag cases you can go as high as a 120 ish gr bullet.

In the pics its a standard 22 case..

tagged for reference

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Being an alloy--will the brass jackets cause any accellerated wear in the barrel (over softer copper)? Will the harder brass cause any difficulties in reloading (i.e.--harder to compress against the walls of the barrel, so causing increased pressure or gas blow-by)?   Compensate by lowering starting loads? The brass is a bit harder, Not very much (remember the brass is in an anealed state). It will burnish the barrel and leave less fowling than copper. I have not noticed any diffrence in velocity between the brass or copper. The jackets are thinner than a standard Copper jacket. And you cannot push these much faster than 3500 FPS. You used a 22 mag case for the 60 gr... right? You can fit up to a 65 gr in a standard 22 case. With the mag cases you can go as high as a 120 ish gr bullet. In the pics its a standard 22 case..

I must have a different ogive die set than you… Also have the rebated boat tail punches.


Been a while since I’ve rolled my own. Finding extruded lead is a pain in the ass.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Being an alloy--will the brass jackets cause any accellerated wear in the barrel (over softer copper)? Will the harder brass cause any difficulties in reloading (i.e.--harder to compress against the walls of the barrel, so causing increased pressure or gas blow-by)?   Compensate by lowering starting loads? The brass is a bit harder, Not very much (remember the brass is in an anealed state). It will burnish the barrel and leave less fowling than copper. I have not noticed any diffrence in velocity between the brass or copper. The jackets are thinner than a standard Copper jacket. And you cannot push these much faster than 3500 FPS. You used a 22 mag case for the 60 gr... right? You can fit up to a 65 gr in a standard 22 case. With the mag cases you can go as high as a 120 ish gr bullet. In the pics its a standard 22 case.. I must have a different ogive die set than you… Also have the rebated boat tail punches. Been a while since I’ve rolled my own. Finding extruded lead is a pain in the ass.

Really?? Corbin has the lead in stock, or you can get a core die and mold your own.
Im running an 6s Ojive on the .224 and 6mm And a 3 s on the .204. The rebated boat tale dies eat a bit of your weight. Have you played with any of the powdered metal that Corbin sells? The powered copper it pretty wicked! I have found that a cupped base works a heck of a lot better than the RBT design.

Taggen sie Thread.

Quoted: ever fill em with garlic or silver?

Or fill 'em with tanerite, like those exploding hollyweird bullet!

Quoted: Really?? Corbin has the lead in stock, or you can get a core die and mold your own.

Uh huh… check out shipping from him to me. Cheaper for me to buy pulls and re-swage them.

I heard that casting cores is bad mojo because of air-pockets.

Quoted: Im running an 6s Ojive on the .224 and 6mm And a 3 s on the .204. The rebated boat tale dies eat a bit of your weight.

I do not remember what ogive I bought. I got them in 90.

The RB punches are also kind of rough on the jacket. If you are not careful it will cut it right at the base and you wind up with a stuck jacket in the barrel.

Quoted: Have you played with any of the powdered metal that Corbin sells? The powered copper it pretty wicked!

Nope... They didn't start selling that stuff until a few years ago.

Quoted: I have found that a cupped base works a heck of a lot better than the RBT design.

Yup, me too. After I spent $$$ on the punch set.

Tagged so I can read it later...

TC

Tag so I can print later.

Quoted: Quoted: Really?? Corbin has the lead in stock, or you can get a core die and mold your own. Uh huh… check out shipping from him to me. Cheaper for me to buy pulls and re-swage them. I heard that casting cores is bad mojo because of air-pockets. Quoted: Im running an 6s Ojive on the .224 and 6mm And a 3 s on the .204. The rebated boat tale dies eat a bit of your weight. I do not remember what ogive I bought. I got them in 90. The RB punches are also kinds rough on the jacket. If you are not careful it will cut it right at the base and you wind up with a stuck jacket in the barrel. Quoted: Have you played with any of the powdered metal that Corbin sells? The powered copper it pretty wicked! Nope... They didn't start selling that stuff until a few years ago. Quoted: I have found that a cupped base works a heck of a lot better than the RBT design. Yup, me too. After I spent $$$ on the punch set.

You cast the slugs then they get core swaged to size/weight. If there is any pockets of air they be gone by then.
The RBT dies are not cheap! Id love to have a set in 6mm though.
Which press and dies are you using?

Fascinating.  Thanks for sharing!