I have a girlfriend who runs a self funded  trap and release program..  

she traps cats, pays a vet to neuter or spade them.. holds them for 48 hours in recovery at her home and then re release's them ( the wild ones ) and /or  try's to find the  (non wild ones ) homes

she cant afford to do this crap and I think she should be able to do the surgury herself...  she worked for a dentist for 15 years and isnt afraid of needles and blood...

I worked on a hog farm when I was young and we castrated our own hogs all the time..
and I have castrated cats and goats too.   I know spading a female cat would require a lot more expertise.. But I think she could take a class somewhere, study and learn how to do this..    she would only be operating on wild cats..  and is very sensitive to animal abuse..  allthough the vet gives her a discount, she borrows on credit cards to pay the vet and is spiraling herself into more debt....  yes she is a bleeding heart and loves cats..  

any advice ?

Thanks,  

Quoted: any advice ? Thanks,

I'm no expert on the subject but wouldn't that be practicing veterinary medicine?  I'm asking seriously.  

Yes, you can spade them, that's probably a cheaper solution than getting them "fixed." But most people in the U.S. call it a shovel

As for performing your own surgeries, I'm pretty sure you need a license to do that, even on animals. Obviously doesn't apply to castrating your own farm animals, but spaying is a real surgical procedure, not the same as snipping off some testicles.

Quoted: Yes, you can spade them, that's probably a cheaper solution than getting them "fixed." But most people in the U.S. call it a shovel

I wanted so badly to be the one to say that!

i know another alternative...

Quoted: re release's them ( the wild ones )

your in Texas and that's not legal to release animals into the wild even if you caught the cat outside and fix them. You need to do the right thing and get these non native animals out of the wild by either finding tham a home or putting them to sleep. Take them to the shelter, whatever but do something helpful and rereleasing them isn't helpfull its harming our native animals

any other altenative would be the end to any beaver visits

"Give 'em the Bob Barker treatment!!!"

I could take care of it. gimme a P22 and suppressor.

Try contacting an organization like Operation Catnip www.operationcatnip.org/ to see whether they could recommend someone in your area who would be willing to perform the operations for free.  If your GF is really into this, it seems that she could maybe organize a charter program locally, maybe in conjunction with either a local vet school, or Humane Society/Animal Control.

I participated in Operation Catnip in Gainesville (sponsored by the UF vet school), and it was an incredible experince.  Imagine a production/assembly line crossed with an operation room - they did a batch of several hundred cats, both spays and neuters.

Your girfriend is very noble, but don't let her ruin her credit - you can't save the world by yourself unless you are James Bond or Jesus.

Edited to add - I don't know the legalities, but I would doubt that people would have a problem with a competent person doing this to strays.  That said, some spays are HARD, particularly on small/young cats.  Plus you obviously have to knock them out, which requires some equipment and knowhow.

LMAO Yeah, you can spay or neuter your own, but holding the little bastards down is gonna be a bitch! You can't buy (or posses) the anesthetic w/out a license.

A vet can teach you how to do either in about an hour, but (since no one else asked) WHY???

Now there's a man who's not afraid to call a spay a spade.

Quoted: Quoted: re release's them ( the wild ones )   your in Texas and that's not legal to release animals into the wild even if you caught the cat outside and fix them. You need to do the right thing and get these non native animals out of the wild by either finding tham a home or putting them to sleep. Take them to the shelter, whatever but do something helpful and rereleasing them isn't helpfull its harming our native animals

she'snot realeasing them into the wild..she is realeasinhg them back to the same place she picked them up.  except without the ability to reproduce

where does it say this is ileagal in texas?

Quoted: LMAO Yeah, you can spay or neuter your own, but holding the little bastards down is gonna be a bitch! You can't buy (or posses) the anesthetic w/out a license. A vet can teach you how to do either in about an hour, but (since no one else asked) WHY???

You could practice by removing the chain from a running chainsaw.

Realist, you need to release her, because you are NEVER going to be able to afford this gal. If she is using CC to spay wild cats she is over the top, and if you ever get more involved your house will be cat shit central, and the bane of the neighborhood.

Seriously, catch, spay,  and release is the dumbest damn idea I have ever heard in my life for feral cats. Putting them to sleep would be far more humane in the long run over starving, freezing to death, being trapped, shot, or squished by cars, possibly followed by a lingering painful death. Not to much humane about that is there?

Quoted: Try contacting an organization like Operation Catnip www.operationcatnip.org/ to see whether they could recommend someone in your area who would be willing to perform the operations for free.  If your GF is really into this, it seems that she could maybe organize a charter program locally, maybe in conjunction with either a local vet school, or Humane Society/Animal Control. I participated in Operation Catnip in Gainesville (sponsored by the UF vet school), and it was an incredible experince.  Imagine a production/assembly line crossed with an operation room - they did a batch of several hundred cats, both spays and neuters. Your girfriend is very noble, but don't let her ruin her credit - you can't save the world by yourself unless you are James Bond or Jesus. Edited to add - I don't know the legalities, but I would doubt that people would have a problem with a competent person doing this to strays.  That said, some spays are HARD, particularly on small/young cats.  Plus you obviously have to knock them out, which requires some equipment and knowhow.

Some good advice here Rubber duck.... Thank you..  I'll pass on this information

Quoted: she'snot realeasing them into the wild..she is realeasinhg them back to the same place she picked them up.  except without the ability to reproduce where does it say this is ileagal in texas?

if you release a cat your releaseing a cat and it doesn't matter if its in a city block or the woods, it's the wild and you can't dump animals it's against the law. If you can't get that I don't know what else to say

Male cats would be easy, just get the smallest size green rubber cheerio castrators and go to town.  Knock the cat out with ether/starting fluid, and use the reverse pliers to put the castrator around the balls.  Put the cat outside, when it wakes up it will run away, and in a week or so its balls will fall off.

Alternately, do a real service and shoot them with a 22.

Quoted: Realist, you need to release her, because you are NEVER going to be able to afford this gal. If she is using CC to spay wild cats she is over the top, and if you ever get more involved your house will be cat shit central, and the bane of the neighborhood. Seriously, catch, spay,  and release is the dumbest damn idea I have ever heard in my life for feral cats. Putting them to sleep would be far more humane in the long run over starving, freezing to death, being trapped, shot, or squished by cars, possibly followed by a lingering painful death. Not to much humane about that is there?

fxntime...  I couldnt agree with you more..  But telling her that is another thing.. I have tried.. trust me I have tried...

Dude, if you can neuter a cat successfully, and post pics, I'll chip in for your first 50 stitches at the ER.

If you try and neuter wild cats, it's about 50/50 that a wild cat will neuter you.

I'm forecasting a charge of animal cruelty when they catch you doing that surgery by yourself Dr. Frankenstein.

She's going into debt paying for this

Why...............................

I wouldn't do anything to help her get into debt.
I would also try to have her live in a budget. If she can't afford a "nuetering", then no neutering will be done.

She's working towards crazy cat woman status.

Anesthesia


And no smoking while operating your CAT

Quoted: Male cats would be easy, just get the smallest size green rubber cheerio castrators and go to town.  Knock the cat out with ether/starting fluid, and use the reverse pliers to put the castrator around the balls.  Put the cat outside, when it wakes up it will run away, and in a week or so its balls will fall off. Alternately, do a real service and shoot them with a 22.

The thought of the new land speed record a wild tom cat with a rubberband cinched around his balls would set when he woke up; is a numerical equation Steven Hawking himself would have problems with.

Quoted: Quoted: Realist, you need to release her, because you are NEVER going to be able to afford this gal. If she is using CC to spay wild cats she is over the top, and if you ever get more involved your house will be cat shit central, and the bane of the neighborhood. Seriously, catch, spay,  and release is the dumbest damn idea I have ever heard in my life for feral cats. Putting them to sleep would be far more humane in the long run over starving, freezing to death, being trapped, shot, or squished by cars, possibly followed by a lingering painful death. Not to much humane about that is there? fxntime...  I couldnt agree with you more..  But telling her that is another thing.. I have tried.. trust me I have tried...

I know, I know a few way out there gals myself. Sad thing is that most of them end up single, 50, fat, and they smell like they bathe in a litter box. Their houses reek of cat urine, ammonia, and feces, and make the eye's water.

Little wonder that they get ostracised by most other people as time goes by, ending up lonely and with only their cats for company. The Cat Lady, everyone knows one. don't they?

Napalm, apply directly to the feral cats.

Napalm, apply directly to the feral cats.

Napalm, apply directly to the feral cats.

You need a new girlfriend.

Dictionary time.


The procedure is SPAYing an animal.   You SPAY it.   Once the procedure is complete, the animal has been SPAYED.

Not spade.  
Not spaded.
Not spayeded.

Spayed.

Lesson complete.


CJ

How do you make a cat sound like a dog?
Spray thoroughly with Ether and lite..
Whooooooooooooooffff

Quoted: Dude, if you can neuter a cat successfully, and post pics, I'll chip in for your first 50 stitches at the ER.

Dude...   I personally could care less about the damn cats..  I had one called rambo years ago I nuetered..  I cut the toe end off of a rubber boot..  shoved the little apartment piss spraying rambo in the boot head first.. half his face protruded through the toe area of the boot.   left his tail and ass sticking out the boot..  duct taped the boot shut with hind legs inside and balls sticking out..  surgury was over in 45 seconds..

problem was Rambo got a woody during surgury.. and I kept telling my girlfriend at the time to move his dick out of my way as my hands were full..   she kept yelling   I AINT TOUCHING HIS DICK !!!    so yes there are complications  

I dunno if its legal or not, but I helped my old pastor neuter his cat when I was 12. I just held the pussy down.  It was a male pussy, btw.

Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this.

Tagged for pics.

Quoted: Dude...   I personally could care less about the damn cats..  I had one called rambo years ago I nuetered..  I cut the toe end off of a rubber boot..  shoved the little apartment piss spraying rambo in the boot head first.. half his face protruded through the toe area of the boot.   left his tail and ass sticking out the boot..  duct taped the boot shut with hind legs inside and balls sticking out..  surgury was over in 45 seconds.. problem was Rambo got a woody during surgury.. and I kept telling my girlfriend at the time to move his dick out of my way as my hands were full..   she kept yelling   I AINT TOUCHING HIS DICK !!!    so yes there are complications

Learning how to use starting fluid would be easier.  

But not quite as funny.

Quoted: Quoted: Dude, if you can neuter a cat successfully, and post pics, I'll chip in for your first 50 stitches at the ER. Dude...   I personally could care less about the damn cats..  I had one called rambo years ago I nuetered..  I cut the toe end off of a rubber boot..  shoved the little apartment piss spraying rambo in the boot head first.. half his face protruded through the toe area of the boot.   left his tail and ass sticking out the boot..  duct taped the boot shut with hind legs inside and balls sticking out..  surgury was over in 45 seconds.. problem was Rambo got a woody during surgury.. and I kept telling my girlfriend at the time to move his dick out of my way as my hands were full..   she kept yelling   I AINT TOUCHING HIS DICK !!!    so yes there are complications

Are you serious?

serious as a heart attack...  I have done over 100 hogs..  a set of nuts is a set of nuts

Quoted: Quoted: Dude, if you can neuter a cat successfully, and post pics, I'll chip in for your first 50 stitches at the ER. Dude...   I personally could care less about the damn cats..  I had one called rambo years ago I nuetered..  I cut the toe end off of a rubber boot..  shoved the little apartment piss spraying rambo in the boot head first.. half his face protruded through the toe area of the boot.   left his tail and ass sticking out the boot..  duct taped the boot shut with hind legs inside and balls sticking out..  surgury was over in 45 seconds.. problem was Rambo got a woody during surgury.. and I kept telling my girlfriend at the time to move his dick out of my way as my hands were full..   she kept yelling   I AINT TOUCHING HIS DICK !!!    so yes there are complications

I bow to your experience in these matters.  I wonder if the same technique could be applied in a bris?

Quoted: Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this. Tagged for pics.

Really?  So all the farmers that have animals in your state are routinely brought up on "animal cruelty" and "practicing animal medicine without a license" charges?

Considering that farmers can buy and administer loads of meds for animals OTC that a human needs a prescription for and can castrate animals with no vet license, you may want to rethink what you wrote.

I've neutered my own cats.  I think its legal in most states but to be on the safe side you should check with regulations.  It isn't a difficult proceedure and most cats survive quite fine from the proceedure.

Patty

Quoted: Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this. Tagged for pics.

Nowadays maybe, with all the "pets iz family" how doody. Heck we used to dock puppy dog tails with nothing more then a piece of wood, a cleaver and a hammer. THWOCK!!! Done in 2 seconds, the pups cried for a minute or two and all was well with the world. Just because some dumbass politician can afford to take his pet to the vet for everything does not mean everybody else can.

Lord knows how shocked some of them would be if they knew meat came from animals that were raised to be killed.

Quoted: Anesthesia webfiles.acuitysp.com/productimagesCentral/ZepImages/0306.gif And no smoking while operating your CAT

my thought exactly

Quoted: Quoted: Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this. Tagged for pics. Really?  So all the farmers that have animals in your state are routinely brought up on "animal cruelty" and "practicing animal medicine without a license" charges? Considering that farmers can buy and administer loads of meds for animals OTC that a human needs a prescription for and can castrate animals with no vet license, you may want to rethink what you wrote.

Are the farmers doing it on their own animals that they own? Picking up wild animals and doing that in Texas will get you felony animal cruelty.

Quoted: You need a new girlfriend.

i am all for that!

So where are the pussy pics?

Quoted: Quoted: You need a new girlfriend. i am all for that! So where are the pussy pics?

Now, Now watch the COC.

Quoted: Quoted: Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this. Tagged for pics. Really?  So all the farmers that have animals in your state are routinely brought up on "animal cruelty" and "practicing animal medicine without a license" charges? Considering that farmers can buy and administer loads of meds for animals OTC that a human needs a prescription for and can castrate animals with no vet license, you may want to rethink what you wrote.

Ummm I said "I think" I am not a lawyer or a farmer, lighten up.

Quoted: Quoted: Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this. Tagged for pics. Really?  So all the farmers that have animals in your state are routinely brought up on "animal cruelty" and "practicing animal medicine without a license" charges? Considering that farmers can buy and administer loads of meds for animals OTC that a human needs a prescription for and can castrate animals with no vet license, you may want to rethink what you wrote.

Nothing to rethink..  I worked for a small farm in Ohio in 1974 and 75...  Thats the way the boss did it..  no numbing agents, and we just slapped a handfull of wheel bearing grease over the surgury when we were done to keep the dirt and bacteria out...

You must be one of them city folk

Quoted: Are the farmers doing it on their own animals that they own? Picking up wild animals and doing that in Texas will get you felony animal cruelty.

Cats aren't considered "wild" animals.  Non-native feral domesticated animals, but not wild.  Your states laws may vary.

Other then that, I dissected a few cats and it would be pretty easy to spay the females.  You can probably find a book or net site that tells how to do it pretty easily.

Quoted: I dunno if its legal or not, but I helped my old pastor neuter his cat when I was 12. I just held the pussy down.  It was a male pussy, btw.

It was HIS cat, so yes.

I know that you can do it quickly, I just think that "realist" needs to get a new girlfriend or she will be spending his money on her odd animal rights ideas.

I think the catch/fix/release could work if it was changed to vasectomy/tubal occlusion. If all the intact males were going at a sterile female, no kittens would occur. If all of the fixed male were going at an intact female, no kittens would occur.

That being said, it's never going to work with catch/fix (remove hormone producing glands). Catch the cats, if it's male, just let it go. If it's female, uthenize it. There's only so big of a niche that cats can occupy, make that niche as heavily male dominated as possible. less females = less kittens, and the males will kill each other, AND THE KITTENS in territorial fights. In the long run, make the population heavy enough on the intact male side, it'll implode to manageable levels.

Quoted: It was HIS cat, so yes. I know that you can do it quickly, I just think that "realist" needs to get a new girlfriend or she will be spending his money on her odd animal rights ideas.

I don't know, if she is going to catch and neuter/spay cats herself for no money she at least has an interesting hobby that's low cost.  I wouldn't be worried til she was eyeing up medical texts on neutering humans.

ETA: She would also have some interesting party/dinner conversation starters and topics.  Some one would be making small talk and she could say how she caught 3 cats, sprayed them with starting fluid to knock them out then neutered them.  Self-taught noless.  

Quoted: Quoted: Are the farmers doing it on their own animals that they own? Picking up wild animals and doing that in Texas will get you felony animal cruelty. Cats aren't considered "wild" animals.  Non-native feral domesticated animals, but not wild.  Your states laws may vary. Other then that, I dissected a few cats and it would be pretty easy to spay the females.  You can probably find a book or net site that tells how to do it pretty easily.

Texas penal code


§ 42.09. CRUELTY TO ANIMALS.  (a) A person commits an
offense if the person intentionally or knowingly:
(1)  tortures an animal;                                                      
(2)  fails unreasonably to provide necessary food,
care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;
(3)  abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's
custody;               (4)  transports or confines an animal in a cruel
manner;                    
(5)  kills, seriously injures, or administers poison to
an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats,
belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's
effective consent;
(6)  causes one animal to fight with another;                                
(7)  uses a live animal as a lure in dog race training
or in dog coursing on a racetrack;
(8)  trips a horse;                                                          
(9)  injures an animal, other than cattle, horses,
sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal
authority or the owner's effective consent;  or
(10)  seriously overworks an animal.                                          
(b)  It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor was engaged in bona fide experimentation for scientific
research.
(c)  For purposes of this section:                                            
(1)  "Abandon" includes abandoning an animal in the
person's custody without making reasonable arrangements for
assumption of custody by another person.
(2)  "Animal" means a domesticated living creature and
wild living creature previously captured. "Animal" does not include
an uncaptured wild creature or a wild creature whose capture was
accomplished by conduct at issue under this section.
(3)  "Cruel manner" includes a manner that causes or
permits unjustified or unwarranted pain or suffering.
(4)  "Custody" includes responsibility for the health,
safety, and welfare of an animal subject to the person's care and
control, regardless of ownership of the animal. (5)  "Necessary food, care, or shelter" includes food,
care, or shelter provided to the extent required to maintain the
animal in a state of good health.
(6)  "Trip" means to use an object to cause a horse to
fall or lose its balance.
(d)  An offense under Subsection (a)(2), (3), (4), (9), or
(10) is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is a state
jail felony if the person has previously been convicted two times
under this section.
(e)  It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5)
that the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act
of or immediately after injuring or killing the person's goats,
sheep, cattle, horses, swine, or poultry and that the person killed
or injured the animal at the time of this discovery.
(f)  It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(8)
that the actor tripped the horse for the purpose of identifying the
ownership of the horse or giving veterinary care to the horse.
(g)  It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under this
section that the person had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to
the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by
Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.
(h)  It is an exception to the application of this section
that the conduct engaged in by the actor is a generally accepted and
otherwise lawful:
(1)  use of an animal if that use occurs solely for the
purpose of:        
(A)  fishing, hunting, or trapping;  or                                      
(B)  wildlife control as regulated by state and
federal law;  or          
(2)  animal husbandry or farming practice involving
livestock.              
(i)  An offense under Subsection (a)(1), (5), (6), (7), or
(8) is a state jail felony, except that the offense is a felony of
the third degree if the person has previously been convicted two
times under this section.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.  
Amended by Acts 1975, 64th Leg., p. 917, ch. 342, § 12, eff.
Sept. 1, 1975;  Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 549, § 1, eff. Sept. 1,
1985;  Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 78, § 1, eff. Aug. 26, 1991.  
Renumbered from V.T.C.A., Penal Code § 42.11 and amended by Acts
1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.  Amended by
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, § 15, eff. Sept. 1, 1995;  Acts
1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1283, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1997;  Acts 2001,
77th Leg., ch. 54, § 3, eff. Sept. 1, 2001;  Acts 2001, 77th Leg.,
ch. 450, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001;  Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1275,
§ 2(116), eff. Sept. 1, 2003.



Don't do it, please.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Animal cruelty, practicing animal medecine without a license, I guess you could get into some legal hickups over this. Tagged for pics. Really?  So all the farmers that have animals in your state are routinely brought up on "animal cruelty" and "practicing animal medicine without a license" charges? Considering that farmers can buy and administer loads of meds for animals OTC that a human needs a prescription for and can castrate animals with no vet license, you may want to rethink what you wrote. Nothing to rethink..  I worked for a small farm in Ohio in 1974 and 75...  Thats the way the boss did it..  no numbing agents, and we just slapped a handfull of wheel bearing grease over the surgury when we were done to keep the dirt and bacteria out... You must be one of them city folk

Yes, I am not a farmer, I have no idea about this stuff.
Certainly not a peta person, and not a lawyer either, but if my balls had to get cut off, I would want a doc to do it...

Quoted: Quoted: It was HIS cat, so yes. I know that you can do it quickly, I just think that "realist" needs to get a new girlfriend or she will be spending his money on her odd animal rights ideas. I don't know, if she is going to catch and neuter/spay cats herself for no money she at least has an interesting hobby that's low cost.  I wouldn't be worried til she was eyeing up medical texts on neutering humans.

If she is going into debt to do this, it won't stay low cost or just snipping for long.  She will want to open a free clinic.  I grew up in Austin, I know how people like that think.

Run, Forrest, run.