ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com - Page 29

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com (Page 29 of 30)

Posted: 2/21/2007 7:49:12 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Gresham's statement is excellent.

Yes, yes it is.

Thanks, Tom.

ETA: "All your page 57's..." and shit.

Posted: 2/21/2007 7:59:57 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Got an email from Tom Grisham tonight:

<snip>

Posted: 2/21/2007 8:13:41 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There's no doubt that Zumbo was a 'tard, but many of the members of this board and the AR-15 community are short-sighted and only marginally less retarded than Mr. Zumbo. The guy was an ass, but he apologized. If we (and I mean the royal arfcom "we") had accepted his apology, he probably would have done a pro-AR-15 segment on his show and written a pro-AR-15 article or two. Maybe he would have convinced a few fudds to give it a try. Instead, through our shrill vitriol, we have alienated Mr. Zumbo instead of using his penitence as an opportunity to make an ally. I predict that Mr. Zumbo will be allied with the Brady Bunch in a very short time. Heck, why shouldn't he? He can't make any money anywhere else; we've made sure of that. We also did not do a very good job representing ourselves on his blog. I saw posts where it was suggested that Mr. Zumbo kill himself. Contrary to the general consensus, I do not view this as arfcom's finest hour.

Well said.

I disagree. Not so much on the well said, but what you said up there danno.

Let him go to the Brady Bunch. Let all of them go that want to be.

I would much rather know where we all stand on freedom than have to guess if you're just in it for the duck hunting and the bambi killing.

I'd rather get shot from the front than from the back.

Posted: 2/21/2007 8:36:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Besides this one post has anybody seen a email response or a offcial post on Cabela's site?

Posted: 2/21/2007 8:37:39 PM EDT

[#5]

So many people have said that Zumbo made his statements out of ignorance of AR's. Well if that is true he shouldn't be in a position to where he can make statements like that for all the world to see, with no knowledge or forthought. I am all for forgive and forget, except now. I don't wish this man any harm, I just do not believe he should be able to stay in his position for a few reasons. Who knows what he will say next? If he is to go back to writing with only minor financial repercussions, it sets an example that division among 2nd amendment supporters(I don't think he fits this group) is tolerated. We need to stay together on this. I have seen comments on another site where this is being treated like it was nothing. I believe the "sit back and relax, it's only words" attitude can cause great problems. Once again, I would like to give kudos to all of those here working so hard for our rights.

Posted: 2/21/2007 9:11:15 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Besides this one post has anybody seen a email response or a offcial post on Cabela's site?

Reply to email I sent Cabelas on the 20th.

Dear Mak,

While Cabela’s believes everyone has the right to express their own opinions, we strongly disagree with Jim Zumbo’s February 16 posting on his Hunting with Jim Zumbo blog on Outdoor Life’s Web site.

Throughout our 46-year history, Cabela’s has firmly supported all aspects of shooting sports. We strongly support the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and the right of every U.S. citizen to purchase, own and enjoy any legal firearm of their choosing.

While we fully support Mr. Zumbo’s First Amendment right of free speech, we believe his opinions on this matter are counter to those shared by Cabela’s and many of our customers. Cabela’s Legal Department is currently reviewing contractual obligations and commitments regarding our sponsorship of the Jim Zumbo Outdoors television show.

If there is anything else we can do for you, please don't hesitate to contact us.

As always, we appreciate your business and look forward to serving you in the future.

Have a great day!

Andrea

Posted: 2/21/2007 9:41:21 PM EDT

[#7]

My email to Stoney point.

So do you support the statements on banning EBR, even though you sell product for them?

Do you belive that Veterans, like myself are terrorist for using a EBR while humting?

Do your support gun ownership only for hunters and not for shooters?

Your continued support for Jim Zumbo would seem to indicate that you have no problem funding a man who belives these ideas.

As long as you support his voice and ideas, I will not support you.

Posted: 2/22/2007 5:21:44 AM EDT

[#8]

OUTDOOR LIFE AND JIM ZUMBO PART WAYS
Outdoor Life magazine Editor-in-Chief Todd Smith released the following statement today regarding writer Jim Zumbo:

In light of comments made by Jim Zumbo in his February 16, 2007 blog posting on the magazine’s website, Mr. Zumbo has offered to terminate his association with Outdoor Life, and the magazine has accepted his offer. Accordingly, he will no longer be contributing to the magazine in print or online. His final column with Outdoor Life will appear in the April 2007 issue, which has already gone to press.

We respect Mr. Zumbo's First Amendment right to free speech, and we acknowledge his subsequent apology and admission of error. However, Outdoor Life has always been, and will always be, a steadfast supporter of all aspects of the shooting sports and our Second Amendment rights, which do not make distinctions based on the appearance of the firearms we choose to own, shoot or hunt with.

We regret this turn of events, as Mr. Zumbo has been a good friend to this magazine and lifelong advocate for hunters and hunting rights.

We appreciate the comments we've received from our loyal readers about this matter and encourage them to continue to correspond with us. Please direct any additional comments to [email protected].

Posted: 2/22/2007 5:56:36 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
OUTDOOR LIFE AND JIM ZUMBO PART WAYS
Outdoor Life magazine Editor-in-Chief Todd Smith released the following statement today regarding writer Jim Zumbo:

In light of comments made by Jim Zumbo in his February 16, 2007 blog posting on the magazine’s website, Mr. Zumbo has offered to terminate his association with Outdoor Life, and the magazine has accepted his offer. Accordingly, he will no longer be contributing to the magazine in print or online. His final column with Outdoor Life will appear in the April 2007 issue, which has already gone to press.

We respect Mr. Zumbo's First Amendment right to free speech, and we acknowledge his subsequent apology and admission of error. However, Outdoor Life has always been, and will always be, a steadfast supporter of all aspects of the shooting sports and our Second Amendment rights, which do not make distinctions based on the appearance of the firearms we choose to own, shoot or hunt with.

We regret this turn of events, as Mr. Zumbo has been a good friend to this magazine and lifelong advocate for hunters and hunting rights.

We appreciate the comments we've received from our loyal readers about this matter and encourage them to continue to correspond with us. Please direct any additional comments to [email protected].

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:04:53 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
There's no doubt that Zumbo was a 'tard, but many of the members of this board and the AR-15 community are short-sighted and only marginally less retarded than Mr. Zumbo. The guy was an ass, but he apologized. If we (and I mean the royal arfcom "we") had accepted his apology, he probably would have done a pro-AR-15 segment on his show and written a pro-AR-15 article or two. Maybe he would have convinced a few fudds to give it a try. Instead, through our shrill vitriol, we have alienated Mr. Zumbo instead of using his penitence as an opportunity to make an ally. I predict that Mr. Zumbo will be allied with the Brady Bunch in a very short time. Heck, why shouldn't he? He can't make any money anywhere else; we've made sure of that. We also did not do a very good job representing ourselves on his blog. I saw posts where it was suggested that Mr. Zumbo kill himself. Contrary to the general consensus, I do not view this as arfcom's finest hour.

I must have missed something.

If Zumbo had called a fellow hunter who happened to be black a N_g_er and then apologized and claimed that it was because of ignorance and his growing up in the south and that he didn't realize that so many people would be upset that he called a black man a N_g_er, but that he flew the flag ans was patriotic, he would be goen and this discussion would not be taking place.

I, frankly, don't see the difference.

What if he called someone a Wetback? Tonk? Wop? Mick? Limey? Which thought process would have saved Zumbo Da Dumbo's tail?

Calling me a terrorist because I collect AR15s and NFA weapons is on the same damned level and shows the same level of ignorance.

He judged a group of people by one attribute. In this case, it wasn't the color of their skin, it was the tool that they chose to work with.

FRankly, he needs to be gone. His attitude has resulted in every goofy firearms law in the country. They Fudds don't have enough sense to understand that their rights begin and end with our rights.

Let the education beginwith Zumbo da Dumbo.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:19:35 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
There's no doubt that Zumbo was a 'tard, but many of the members of this board and the AR-15 community are short-sighted and only marginally less retarded than Mr. Zumbo. The guy was an ass, but he apologized. If we (and I mean the royal arfcom "we") had accepted his apology, he probably would have done a pro-AR-15 segment on his show and written a pro-AR-15 article or two. Maybe he would have convinced a few fudds to give it a try. Instead, through our shrill vitriol, we have alienated Mr. Zumbo instead of using his penitence as an opportunity to make an ally. I predict that Mr. Zumbo will be allied with the Brady Bunch in a very short time. Heck, why shouldn't he? He can't make any money anywhere else; we've made sure of that. We also did not do a very good job representing ourselves on his blog. I saw posts where it was suggested that Mr. Zumbo kill himself. Contrary to the general consensus, I do not view this as arfcom's finest hour.

I could care less. Let him go. He thinks like them so go join them. If the hunters in question are reading Brady literature then they are likely a lost cause anyway. Zumbo writing about a hunt with Ted isn't going to make the Brady sympathizers change their minds either.

He didn't apologize he said it was windy and he was tired so that's why I'm a terrorist.

ETA: Actions are important.... not words spoken after your ass is in the fire. Will see what he does for here. It will speak more to who he is and if he's sincere than any blog apology ever would have.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:30:28 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There's no doubt that Zumbo was a 'tard, but many of the members of this board and the AR-15 community are short-sighted and only marginally less retarded than Mr. Zumbo. ...... I saw posts where it was suggested that Mr. Zumbo kill himself. Contrary to the general consensus, I do not view this as arfcom's finest hour.

He didn't apologize he said it was windy and he was tired so that's why I'm a terrorist.

He definitely needs to reflect, apologize for his ignorance and actually mean it.
The retards who would wish him physical harm and are ignorant enough to actually post it also need to take some careful reflection. He could still be an ally in our fight over 2nd amendment rights. To write him off forever is not wise. He has a faithful Fudd following who could be positively influenced for our cause. Unification is a better strategy than division and infighting in the firearm community at large if we are going to destroy such groups as the Brady bunch.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:37:48 AM EDT

[#13]

From Ted Nugent:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
just spoke with Jim. He's in deep dark hell. He is preparing to face his BloodBrothers here any moment now. The guy has literally lost everything. 100% dumped across the board. fired. unemployed! ostracized! wild. But the beauty is as Ive stated before, he now truly GETS IT and is now gloriously ready to do battle against all who dare think as he did prior to last Sunday. I am convinced this will pan out to be the best right hook us gunners have ever had!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think he's never going to be any kind of right hook, at this point in his carrer he may have trouble punching himself out of a wet paper bag. His credibility is gone, does it matter now what he has to say? It's almost like letting OJ date you beautiful blond daughter.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:56:30 AM EDT

[#14]

Just got this email from Gerber:

For Immediate Release Contact: Jason Kintzler
Phone: 307.857.4700
[email protected]
Gerber Cuts Ties with Jim Zumbo

Portland, OR, February 21, 2007: Gerber Legendary Blades reacted to Jim
Zumbo's recent public statements moving to sever all sponsorship ties with
the long-time outdoor writer and hunter, effective immediately.
"After careful evaluation and consideration, we have made the decision to
discontinue our relationship with Jim Zumbo," said Brendon Weaver, Director
of Brand Management at Gerber. "At Gerber, we value the hunting heritage
and cherish our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms."

While we respect the opinions of sponsored professionals, customers and
end users of our products, Mr. Zumbo's recent statements are not consistent
with Gerber's culture and ideals as advocates of the hunting industry.

For more information please email Jason Kintzler at
[email protected]
# # # #

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:01:07 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Just got this email from Gerber:

For Immediate Release Contact: Jason Kintzler
Phone: 307.857.4700
[email protected]
Gerber Cuts Ties with Jim Zumbo

Portland, OR, February 21, 2007: Gerber Legendary Blades reacted to Jim
Zumbo's recent public statements moving to sever all sponsorship ties with
the long-time outdoor writer and hunter, effective immediately.
"After careful evaluation and consideration, we have made the decision to
discontinue our relationship with Jim Zumbo," said Brendon Weaver, Director
of Brand Management at Gerber. "At Gerber, we value the hunting heritage
and cherish our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms."

While we respect the opinions of sponsored professionals, customers and
end users of our products, Mr. Zumbo's recent statements are not consistent
with Gerber's culture and ideals as advocates of the hunting industry.

For more information please email Jason Kintzler at
[email protected]
# # # #

They couldn't hold out.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:11:26 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Just got this email from Gerber:

For Immediate Release Contact: Jason Kintzler
Phone: 307.857.4700
[email protected]
Gerber Cuts Ties with Jim Zumbo

Portland, OR, February 21, 2007: Gerber Legendary Blades reacted to Jim
Zumbo's recent public statements moving to sever all sponsorship ties with
the long-time outdoor writer and hunter, effective immediately.
"After careful evaluation and consideration, we have made the decision to
discontinue our relationship with Jim Zumbo," said Brendon Weaver, Director
of Brand Management at Gerber. "At Gerber, we value the hunting heritage
and cherish our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms."

While we respect the opinions of sponsored professionals, customers and
end users of our products, Mr. Zumbo's recent statements are not consistent
with Gerber's culture and ideals as advocates of the hunting industry.

For more information please email Jason Kintzler at
[email protected]
# # # #

They couldn't hold out.

Wow! They actually buckled. Looks like my next multitool may be a Gerber after all.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:15:24 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
From Ted Nugent:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
just spoke with Jim. He's in deep dark hell. He is preparing to face his BloodBrothers here any moment now. The guy has literally lost everything. 100% dumped across the board. fired. unemployed! ostracized! wild. But the beauty is as Ive stated before, he now truly GETS IT and is now gloriously ready to do battle against all who dare think as he did prior to last Sunday. I am convinced this will pan out to be the best right hook us gunners have ever had!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think he's never going to be any kind of right hook, at this point in his carrer he may have trouble punching himself out of a wet paper bag. His credibility is gone, does it matter now what he has to say? It's almost like letting OJ date you beautiful blond daughter.

As someone else remarked, he has a large following of hunters who probably think a lot like him. If he is truly penitent and changes his ways, he could be instrumental in helping educate many other "less than educated" hunters. (Notice that I'm trying to avoid using the "F" word)

If he were to do so in an effective manner, I for one would be willing to overlook his past mistakes.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:19:14 AM EDT

[#18]

I just received the following email from the NRA, in reply to the one I sent them on Sunday:

Dear Mr. Markowitz:

Everyone at NRA Publications is angered and confused by the thoughts expressed by Jim Zumbo. We all know him well; he has been a periodic contributor to our magazines and a staunch supporter of the NRA for many years. But we cannot understand what led him to believe or write such things. Of course he's entitled to his opinion, but his opinion is certainly not one shared by the NRA staff. All semi-automatic firearms are just that: semi-automatic. There can be no differentiation between them simply based on external appearance. Mr. Zumbo has never been an employee of the NRA, and we have no plans to publish any articles by him in the future. Contributions by him to NRA media are hereby suspended, effective immediately.

Please know that your support and interest in our publications are deeply appreciated.

Sincerely,

John Zent

Editorial Director

NRA Publications

Emphasis added by me.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:30:20 AM EDT

[#19]

So, what, he's gonna become a lobbyist or what?

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:30:44 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
From Ted Nugent:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
just spoke with Jim. He's in deep dark hell. He is preparing to face his BloodBrothers here any moment now. The guy has literally lost everything. 100% dumped across the board. fired. unemployed! ostracized! wild. But the beauty is as Ive stated before, he now truly GETS IT and is now gloriously ready to do battle against all who dare think as he did prior to last Sunday. I am convinced this will pan out to be the best right hook us gunners have ever had!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think he's never going to be any kind of right hook, at this point in his carrer he may have trouble punching himself out of a wet paper bag. His credibility is gone, does it matter now what he has to say? It's almost like letting OJ date you beautiful blond daughter.

As someone else remarked, he has a large following of hunters who probably think a lot like him. If he is truly penitent and changes his ways, he could be instrumental in helping educate many other "less than educated" hunters. (Notice that I'm trying to avoid using the "F" word)

If he were to do so in an effective manner, I for one would be willing to overlook his past mistakes.

I agree. But the others have to understand the price that they will pay for thinking like this.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:31:30 AM EDT

[#21]

If only we could use "our clout" like this on the likes of shummer, clinton, fienstein, et al.(Yeah I know I mispelled it!)
We must be ever vigilant.......

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:47:23 AM EDT

[#22]

I'm going to conduct an experiement at my club. Amongst a membership of about 1000, I can surely get a good cross section of opinion.

Posted: 2/22/2007 9:06:12 AM EDT

[#23]

The last few days have been an educational experience, to say the least. My ill-conceived inflammatory blog, as all of you now know, set off a firestorm that, I’m told, has never before been equaled. I’m not proud of that.
Let me say this at the outset. My words here are from the heart, and all mine. No one can censor me, and I answer to no one but myself. And I have no one to blame but myself. Outdoor Life, a magazine that I worked for full-time as Hunting Editor for almost 30 years, fired me yesterday. My TV show was cancelled yesterday. Many of my sponsors have issued statements on their website to sever all relationships. This may cause many of you to do backflips and dance in the streets, but, of course, I’m not laughing, nor am I looking for sympathy. I don’t want a pity party.

They say hindsight is golden. Looking back, I can’t believe I said the words “ban” and “terrorist” in the context that I did. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I can explain this as sheer ignorance and an irresponsible use of words. What I’ve learned over the last few days has enlightened and amazed me. As a guy who hunts 200 days a year, does seminars on hunting, wrote for six hunting magazines, had a hunting TV show, and wrote 20 books on hunting, how could I have been so ignorant and out of touch with reality in the world of hunting and shooting?

But I was. I really can’t explain it, maybe because I just summarily dismissed the firearms in question in my mind when I saw them in magazines and catalogs. I saw one “black” firearm in a hunting camp in all my 50 years of hunting, and I shot one last year off a boat when fishing in Alaska. To tell the truth, it was fun and I enjoyed it immensely, but I never considered one for use in hunting. I have to tell you that I have had a revelation. I’m learning that many of my pals own AR-15’s and similar firearms and indeed use them for hunting. I was totally unaware that they were being used for legitimate hunting purposes. That is the absolute truth.

My biggest regret is not the financial impact of all this. I’m almost 67 and retirement is an option. The dreadful impact here is that I inadvertently struck a spear into the hearts of the people I love most…America’s gun owners. And, even though this huge cadre of dedicated people have succeeded in stripping me of my career, I hold no grudges. I will continue to stand as firm on pro hunting as I’ve ever done. But what’s different now is that I’ll do all I can to educate others who are, or were, as ignorant as I was about “black” rifles and the controversy that surrounds them. My promise to you is that I’ll learn all I can about these firearms, and by the time this week is out, I’ll order one. The NUGE has invited me to hunt with him using AR-15’s, and I’m eager to go, and learn. I’ll do all I can to spread the word.

I understand that many of you will not accept this apology, believing that the damage has been done and there’s no way to repair it. You have that right. But let me say this. I mentioned this above, and I’ll repeat it. I’m willing to seize this opportunity to educate hunters and shooters who shared my ignorance. If you’re willing to allow me to do that, we can indeed, in my mind, form a stronger bond within our ranks. Maybe in a roundabout way we can bring something good out of this.

Jim Zumbo

You've got to be kidding, HE STILL DOESN'T QUITE GET IT??? "used for legitimate hunting purposes"???

Posted: 2/22/2007 9:07:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

The last few days have been an educational experience, to say the least. My ill-conceived inflammatory blog, as all of you now know, set off a firestorm that, I’m told, has never before been equaled. I’m not proud of that.
Let me say this at the outset. My words here are from the heart, and all mine. No one can censor me, and I answer to no one but myself. And I have no one to blame but myself. Outdoor Life, a magazine that I worked for full-time as Hunting Editor for almost 30 years, fired me yesterday. My TV show was cancelled yesterday. Many of my sponsors have issued statements on their website to sever all relationships. This may cause many of you to do backflips and dance in the streets, but, of course, I’m not laughing, nor am I looking for sympathy. I don’t want a pity party.

They say hindsight is golden. Looking back, I can’t believe I said the words “ban” and “terrorist” in the context that I did. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I can explain this as sheer ignorance and an irresponsible use of words. What I’ve learned over the last few days has enlightened and amazed me. As a guy who hunts 200 days a year, does seminars on hunting, wrote for six hunting magazines, had a hunting TV show, and wrote 20 books on hunting, how could I have been so ignorant and out of touch with reality in the world of hunting and shooting?

But I was. I really can’t explain it, maybe because I just summarily dismissed the firearms in question in my mind when I saw them in magazines and catalogs. I saw one “black” firearm in a hunting camp in all my 50 years of hunting, and I shot one last year off a boat when fishing in Alaska. To tell the truth, it was fun and I enjoyed it immensely, but I never considered one for use in hunting. I have to tell you that I have had a revelation. I’m learning that many of my pals own AR-15’s and similar firearms and indeed use them for hunting. I was totally unaware that they were being used for legitimate hunting purposes. That is the absolute truth.

My biggest regret is not the financial impact of all this. I’m almost 67 and retirement is an option. The dreadful impact here is that I inadvertently struck a spear into the hearts of the people I love most…America’s gun owners. And, even though this huge cadre of dedicated people have succeeded in stripping me of my career, I hold no grudges. I will continue to stand as firm on pro hunting as I’ve ever done. But what’s different now is that I’ll do all I can to educate others who are, or were, as ignorant as I was about “black” rifles and the controversy that surrounds them. My promise to you is that I’ll learn all I can about these firearms, and by the time this week is out, I’ll order one. The NUGE has invited me to hunt with him using AR-15’s, and I’m eager to go, and learn. I’ll do all I can to spread the word.

I understand that many of you will not accept this apology, believing that the damage has been done and there’s no way to repair it. You have that right. But let me say this. I mentioned this above, and I’ll repeat it. I’m willing to seize this opportunity to educate hunters and shooters who shared my ignorance. If you’re willing to allow me to do that, we can indeed, in my mind, form a stronger bond within our ranks. Maybe in a roundabout way we can bring something good out of this.

Jim Zumbo

You've got to be kidding, HE STILL DOESN'T QUITE GET IT??? "sed for legitimate hunting purposes"???

He never called for an outright ban of them. Just wanted them banned from hunting.

Posted: 2/22/2007 9:13:45 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

He never called for an outright ban of them. Just wanted them banned from hunting.

Then he's a piss poor hunting writer too, if he doesn't even know that ARs have a huge role in varmint hunting (and deer for those hunters who live in the South, where the deer tend to be on the small side....

)

Posted: 2/22/2007 9:36:04 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
If he is truly penitent and changes his ways, he could be instrumental in helping educate many other "less than educated" hunters. (Notice that I'm trying to avoid using the "F" word)

Thank you for your efforts in attempting to remove the undeserved stain that has been attached to my distinguished name by this pompous windbag.

Posted: 2/22/2007 10:35:26 AM EDT

[#27]

With regards to Zumbo's latest statement, all I can say is "Deeds, not words." Come through on your promise to educate the other hunters, deliver them to our side in the fight against more oppressive gun laws, ANY anti-gun laws. You don't have to convert them to owning AR's, but just supporting our rights to do so. Bring those "Fudds" and "Zumbos" fully into the fight against the anti-RKBA forces, and not just for their choice of weapon, but ALL weapons. Accomplish THAT and I'll forgive him. I'll never forget though.

The ball is squarely in his court, and he has a lot of work to accomplish. Since he'll have the time to work on it, I expect some decent results in a short amount of time. Get to it.

Posted: 2/22/2007 10:54:14 AM EDT

[#28]

Just received an email form Outdoor Life:

My response

I will be subscribing to your magazine when I would not have subscribed before.

Your handling of the Zumbo matter is a reflection that Outdoor life gets the basic issues surrounding the second amendment and I wish to support your magazine financially.

I just signed up for a 36 month subscription as a show of support.

Sean Cody

Posted: 2/22/2007 11:48:47 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I'm glad to see Ted Nugent take him underwing and educate him...

On dodging military service...

Posted: 2/22/2007 12:02:43 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Jim Zumbo could bring a lot of anti-EBR Fudds back into the 2nd Amentment fold, or at least get them to keep their traitorous, backstabbing mouths shut.

I'd rather they keep their mouths talking so I know who they are. And that is all the Fudd's have learned from this, keep your anti-gun comments to yourself. I doubt very few "have come around".

Posted: 2/22/2007 12:18:42 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Jim Zumbo could bring a lot of anti-EBR Fudds back into the 2nd Amentment fold, or at least get them to keep their traitorous, backstabbing mouths shut.

I'd rather they keep their mouths talking so I know who they are. And that is all the Fudd's have learned from this, keep your anti-gun comments to yourself. I doubt very few "have come around".

Well..... that's something. At least they won't be writing as many 'what ya need them thar machine guns fer' articles for a bit or getting quoted in reports on the crises of military fluffy bunny killing murder machines on the street.

Posted: 2/22/2007 4:31:48 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
With regards to Zumbo's latest statement, all I can say is "Deeds, not words." Come through on your promise to educate the other hunters, deliver them to our side in the fight against more oppressive gun laws, ANY anti-gun laws. You don't have to convert them to owning AR's, but just supporting our rights to do so. Bring those "Fudds" and "Zumbos" fully into the fight against the anti-RKBA forces, and not just for their choice of weapon, but ALL weapons. Accomplish THAT and I'll forgive him. I'll never forget though.

The ball is squarely in his court, and he has a lot of work to accomplish. Since he'll have the time to work on it, I expect some decent results in a short amount of time. Get to it.

Yup! Otherwise, ZUMBOCIDE...the best medicine.

Posted: 2/22/2007 4:40:46 PM EDT

[#33]

Zumbo really stepped in it, I saw on Nugents site he is apologizing he didn't know what he was saying and has been schooled big time BTW he is now unemployeed at outdoor life has lost his TV show and most all his sponsors. He says he is going to get educated on the AR by the end of this week and will have one on order. He is also planning a hunting trip with AR's with Ted Nugent who I think did a lot of the "schooling"
on him. Besides what a bunch of gun owners and hunters have done. I almost feel sorry for him because i have stepped in it a few times by opening my mouth without engaging my brain.
He also said that now that he is learning he intends to educate others about the "worthiness of the AR as a sporting rifle.

I still think he screwed the pooch but I am hoping his epiphany will midagate things some, I am, also hopeing that the Bradys usual tactics of mis quotes and mis information will backfire when he corrects his uninformed opinion.

Posted: 2/22/2007 4:45:07 PM EDT

[#34]

Question, as this is growing faster that I can read everything, and I just got off wortk and am getting ready to go to dinner with sdome of the local shooters.

Did he retract his statement about AR's being terrorist weapons? where?

Did he retract his call for them being banned? Not just to them being used but did he retract his call for them being banned?

Did he retract his staements about them, Ar's having a legitament place as a hunting weapon? Not just observing that his friends use them, but that he recognizes them as a having a use in hunting?

Posted: 2/22/2007 4:58:52 PM EDT

[#35]

He said he is learning all he can about AR's and intends going on a hunt witth AR's with Nugent and he says he is going to try to educate others as to the worthiness of the AR. Time will tell what he will do and what effects what he has done will have. Hi second appology is on Nugets web site

Posted: 2/22/2007 5:00:24 PM EDT

[#36]

That would be me, lol. Over the top, prolly. Funny, definetely.

OMFG...who is Joshua Howell?

Quoted:
This is WAAAAAY overboard, but funny as hell! BTW, I didn't post it.

Jim Zumbo's morning:

ODL= outdoor life

*ring ring
Jim: Jim speaking.....
ODL: Jim, your fired
Jim: Sir, what do you mean I'm fired?
ODL: Jim, have you seen your blog?
JIM: Whats a blog? You mean the intranet?
ODL: Have you been smoking pot again Jim?
JIM: I thought they legalized pot?
ODL: Jim, stfu. Do you see how many subscriptions we've lost because of your bullshit sellout?
Jim: (background noise: Diane, go back to bed...it's just work) Uh No. Lemme check here on my computerater.....
Jim: Oh snap.
ODL: Yeah, snap alright.
Jim: Does this mean you aint paying for me to shoot them thar elk and deers in them big pens this year so it looks like my fat ass can walk up and down them dar heels?"
ODL: Yes jim you high fence fucktard, fired means your fired. No more hunting on our coin and no more Ms. Feinstein under your desk.
Jim: Well, we can still date right?
ODL: Jim, you'll have plenty of spare time on your hands soon, so if you can pick her out of your fat ass crack you can do whatever you want. Besides...why would I care.... Your fired......Dumbass.....
Jim: Thanks sir, I was worried about that.....Fired, really?
ODL: Geezus Jim, you really are an idiot......
Jim: Well look how many people agreed with me
ODL: Two Jim, Two. 7698 people thought you was a sellout.
Jim: Well, ain't that like 20% or something?
ODL: No Jim....It's like .002%
Jim: damn.
ODL: I'm hanging up now.....We're using your last paycheck to clean the crusties off the floor under your desk that Ms Feinstein left there...damn spitters anyways..
Jim: My Diane would never do that!!
ODL: Click

ten minutes later......

ring ring*

Jim: Jim speaking.....
Remington: Jim, wtf were you thinking?
Jim: I don't know sir.....I did just what Diane told me to do...she said it would make me famous......
Rem: Well, your famous now alright. Your on every internet gun sight on the planet.......hope your happy.
Jim. uh.......I don't know what to say......
Rem: You do know we sell more .223 ammo than all the other ammo combined right?
Jim: uh.............
Rem: Are you listening to me you fat slob? Blaming AR15's on terrorism and the demise of hunting is like blaming a SPOON for making you FAT.
Jim: I've been working out........
REM: shooting animals in cages is not working out Jim....you're a disgrace.....
Jim: I'm real sorry sir........
Rem: Well thats not gonna help our gun and ammo sales now is it Jim?
Jim: Well, what if I come out with a new cookbook?
Rem: STF jim. Your fired. You can't cook worth a shit anyways. Send back all the free remington equipment we've sent you. Maybe you should call ruger.......
Jim: Do I need to send back my camo hoveround too?
Rem: Jim, try walking...........you'll lose weight.
Jim: Diane said if I kept eating this new cereal...uh....propo.....ganda......I would lose weight?
Rem: Didn't I tell you to dump her after you got dumped by Ms. pelosi?
Jim: Yeah......I miss her blinking........and those lips....
REM: Christ I'm gonna vomit. Jim did I mention your fired?
Jim: Fired?
Rem: Click

Jim: Diane Honey, I thinks you lied to me. You said everyone hated those scary black weapons and I'd be famous.....
Diane: bllllbrbrlllbr.
Jim: Sorry honey, I didn't know you were stuck under my fat Roll......
Diane: It's ok You fat bastard. (*gasping) You merely succumbed to our liberal propaganda campaine. There's nothing to be ashamed of.
Jim: You mean you really are gonna take all my guns?
Diane: Well of course you dumb bastard.......It's for the children!!!

Posted: 2/23/2007 11:24:27 AM EDT

[#37]

Now we're a bunch of mental patients on a Field and Stream blog

Posted: 2/23/2007 12:03:37 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Now we're a bunch of mental patients on a Field and Stream blog

I have to agree with this statement:

"To all the chatroom heroes who made him unemployable, I have a word of warning: You’ve been swinging a two-edged sword. A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours.

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America."

Posted: 2/23/2007 12:41:51 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America."

That will happen no matter what.

And if nobody writes them, they will manufacture them. Not like the Brady Bunch is above making up a bunch of shit.

When you begin to censor yourself and limit your actions because of what your enemies "may" do, then you have already lost.

Free men exercise their freedom because it is theirs.

Posted: 2/23/2007 12:44:32 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America."

That will happen no matter what.

And if nobody writes them, they will manufacture them. Not like the Brady Bunch is above making up a bunch of shit.

When you begin to censor yourself and limit your actions because of what your enemies "may" do, then you have already lost.

Free men exercise their freedom because it is theirs.

Just like their "Facts" which are often made up or contorted in a way that benefits their cause. They are going to get all they want with or without our help.

Posted: 2/24/2007 8:04:04 AM EDT

[#41]

Fromthe NRA:

(FAIRFAX, VA) - The following statement was issued by the National Rifle Association of America.
Comments expressed by outdoor writer Jim Zumbo reflect neither the opinions of the National Rifle Association and America's gun owners, nor are they an accurate portrayal of facts in regard to semi-automatic firearms lawfully
owned by millions of citizens. Therefore, NRA Publications has suspended it's professional ties with Mr. Zumbo.
The ensuing wave of grassroots response in support of the Second Amendment is a clear indication that America's gun owners will act swiftly and decisively to counter falsehoods or misrepresentations perpetuated by any member of the media - whether it is one of the major networks or a fellow gun owner.
That depth of feeling and the unanimity of the response from the nation's firearms owners sends a message to the new Congress. It says that millions of people understand the issue of semi-autos and will resist with an immense singular political will any attempts to create a new ban on semi-automatic firearms.
At the root of this grassroots response is the basic truth that 'gun control merely makes the innocent pay the price for the guilty' and our folks fully understand that their rights are at stake. It says that for the enemies of the Second Amendment there is no chance that the kind of divide and conquer propaganda strategy which preceded the 1994 ban on semi-auto firearms will ever succeed again.

Posted: 2/24/2007 8:31:40 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America."

That will happen no matter what.

And if nobody writes them, they will manufacture them. Not like the Brady Bunch is above making up a bunch of shit.

When you begin to censor yourself and limit your actions because of what your enemies "may" do, then you have already lost.

Free men exercise their freedom because it is theirs.

I thought it was vicious and foul-mouthed to demean our beloved freedom sticks.

Let's own up to gun nut or whatever stupid name they want to call us (think of the "I am Spartacus" scene). Once you embrace the word you own it and it loses the power it once had. For god's sake, that's a jackass that represents the Democratic Party, and they love him dearly.

Posted: 2/24/2007 8:35:48 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America."

That will happen no matter what.

And if nobody writes them, they will manufacture them. Not like the Brady Bunch is above making up a bunch of shit.

When you begin to censor yourself and limit your actions because of what your enemies "may" do, then you have already lost.

Free men exercise their freedom because it is theirs.

+1 Amazing people don't understand that by now. These are liberals we are dealing with

They think the means justify the end. And to them 1984 is a good thing.

Posted: 2/24/2007 10:02:50 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
So many people have said that Zumbo made his statements out of ignorance of AR's. Well if that is true he shouldn't be in a position to where he can make statements like that for all the world to see, with no knowledge or forthought. I am all for forgive and forget, except now. I don't wish this man any harm, I just do not believe he should be able to stay in his position for a few reasons. Who knows what he will say next? If he is to go back to writing with only minor financial repercussions, it sets an example that division among 2nd amendment supporters(I don't think he fits this group) is tolerated. We need to stay together on this. I have seen comments on another site where this is being treated like it was nothing. I believe the "sit back and relax, it's only words" attitude can cause great problems. Once again, I would like to give kudos to all of those here working so hard for our rights.

You wouldn't trust your friend's dog after he ripped a big chunk out of your kid's leg when no one was looking? But the dog's so happy now!

What about an aquaintance who sucker-punches you on a dare, and wants to hang out with you again? You know people are capable of change!

Didn't you see Zumbo's apology? " Hi, I'm Jim Zumbo and Hunters are the backbone of the American Second Amendment. That's why I'm willing to backpedal until this sh!tstorm goes away! "

Hunting is the ONLY politically-correct form of private gun ownership now. Too much has been invested in this movement for people like you to stain it's image with your 'old school' ideas.

In the words of Bill Clinton: 'I got nothin' against hunters --Heck I used to shoot ducks all the time when I wasn't in the back of my truck sampling the local puss.. Oh, never mind!"

Posted: 2/24/2007 10:54:08 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So many people have said that Zumbo made his statements out of ignorance of AR's. Well if that is true he shouldn't be in a position to where he can make statements like that for all the world to see, with no knowledge or forthought. I am all for forgive and forget, except now. I don't wish this man any harm, I just do not believe he should be able to stay in his position for a few reasons. Who knows what he will say next? If he is to go back to writing with only minor financial repercussions, it sets an example that division among 2nd amendment supporters(I don't think he fits this group) is tolerated. We need to stay together on this. I have seen comments on another site where this is being treated like it was nothing. I believe the "sit back and relax, it's only words" attitude can cause great problems. Once again, I would like to give kudos to all of those here working so hard for our rights.

You wouldn't trust your friend's dog after he ripped a big chunk out of your kid's leg when no one was looking? But the dog's so happy now!

What about an aquaintance who sucker-punches you on a dare, and wants to hang out with you again? You know people are capable of change!

Didn't you see Zumbo's apology? " Hi, I'm Jim Zumbo and Hunters are the backbone of the American Second Amendment. That's why I'm willing to backpedal until this sh!tstorm goes away! "

Hunting is the ONLY politically-correct form of private gun ownership now. Too much has been invested in this movement for people like you to stain it's image with your 'old school' ideas.

In the words of Bill Clinton: 'I got nothin' against hunters --Heck I used to shoot ducks all the time when I wasn't in the back of my truck sampling the local puss.. Oh, never mind!"

What are you trying to say? People like me, old school ideas?

Posted: 2/24/2007 12:04:55 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Now we're a bunch of mental patients on a Field and Stream blog

"To all the chatroom heroes who made him unemployable, I have a word of warning: You’ve been swinging a two-edged sword. A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours."

Speaking of mental patients, Petzal blames us for Zumbo's demise? The guy made an unforgivable statement that somehow glorifies the bigotry towards black rifles.

Our failures in the past to police our own out of some sense of not wanting to create controversy gave us nothing but restrictive gun laws (May 86, 922, AWB, etc).

Zumbo was sacrificed for the good of the cause. My first commanding officer said:

"You build 10 bridges, you are a bridge builder. But screw the pooch, and you're not a bridge builder anymore."

The folks who hate black rifles (for hunting or otherwise) can smoke a turd in hell. These are the people who help usher in restrictive and senseless gun laws.

JS

Posted: 2/24/2007 3:29:20 PM EDT

[#47]

MSNBC has picked up the story on their website. It was a link on the www.msn.com home page. Tagline says "Washingtonpost.com"
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17307316/?GT1=9033

Gun remark makes outdoorsman an outcast
Criticism of hunters who use assault rifles puts writer’s career in jeopardy
By Blaine Harden

Updated: 9:22 p.m. PT Feb 23, 2007
SEATTLE - Modern hunters rarely become more famous than Jim Zumbo. A mustachioed, barrel-chested outdoors entrepreneur who lives in a log cabin near Yellowstone National Park, he has spent much of his life writing for prominent outdoors magazines, delivering lectures across the country and starring in cable TV shows about big-game hunting in the West.

Zumbo's fame, however, has turned to black-bordered infamy within America's gun culture -- and his multimedia success has come undone. It all happened in the past week, after he publicly criticized the use of military-style assault rifles by hunters, especially those gunning for prairie dogs.

"Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity," Zumbo wrote in his blog on the Outdoor Life Web site. The Feb. 16 posting has since been taken down. "As hunters, we don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them. . . . I'll go so far as to call them 'terrorist' rifles."

Squarely in the crosshairs

The reaction -- from tens of thousands of owners of assault rifles across the country, from media and manufacturers rooted in the gun business, and from the National Rifle Association -- has been swift, severe and unforgiving. Despite a profuse public apology and a vow to go hunting soon with an assault weapon, Zumbo's career appears to be over.

His top-rated weekly TV program on the Outdoor Channel, his longtime career with Outdoor Life magazine and his corporate ties to the biggest names in gunmaking, including Remington Arms Co., have been terminated or are on the ropes.

The NRA on Thursday pointed to the collapse of Zumbo's career as an example of what can happen to anyone, including a "fellow gun owner," who challenges the right of Americans to own or hunt with assault-style firearms.

From his home near Cody, Wyo., Zumbo declined repeated telephone requests for comment. He is a 40-year NRA member and has appeared with NRA officials in 70 cities, according to his Web site.

Shot across Congress’ bow
In announcing that it was suspending its professional ties with Zumbo, the NRA -- a well-financed gun lobby that for decades has fought attempts to regulate assault weapons -- noted that the new Congress should pay careful attention to the outdoors writer's fate.

"Our folks fully understand that their rights are at stake," the NRA statement said. It warned that the "grassroots" passion that brought down Zumbo shows that millions of people would "resist with an immense singular political will any attempts to create a new ban on semi-automatic firearms."

Some outdoors writers drew a different lesson from Zumbo's horrible week.

"This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness," said Pat Wray, a freelance outdoors writer in Corvallis, Ore., and author of "A Chukar Hunter's Companion."

Wray said that what happened to Zumbo is a case study in how the NRA has trained members to attack their perceived enemies without mercy.

"For so many years, Zumbo has been a voice for these people -- for hunting and for guns -- and they just turned on him in an instant," Wray said. "He apologized all over himself, and it didn't do any good."

Circling the wagons
Zumbo's fall highlights a fundamental concern of the NRA and many champions of military-style firearms, according to people who follow the organization closely. They do not want American gun owners to make a distinction between assault weapons and traditional hunting guns such as shotguns and rifles. If they did, a rift could emerge between hunters, who tend to have the most money for political contributions to gun rights causes, and assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash.

The NRA appeared to be saying as much in its statement Thursday, when it emphasized that the Zumbo affair shows there is "no chance" that a "divide and conquer propaganda strategy" could ever succeed.

"Jim Zumbo Outdoors" was not broadcast as scheduled last week on the Outdoor Channel and will not air next week, said Mike Hiles, a spokesman for the channel. He said sponsors have requested that they be removed from the program. The show "will be in hiatus for an undetermined period of time," he said.

Zumbo's long career at Outdoor Life, which is owned by Time Inc., also came to a sudden end in the past week. Zumbo was hunting editor of the magazine, which is the nation's second-largest outdoors publication. He wrote his first story for Outdoor Life in 1962.

‘Living in very delicate times’
The magazine's editor in chief, Todd W. Smith, said that Zumbo submitted his resignation after hearing of the large number of readers (about 6,000, at last count) who had sent e-mails demanding his dismissal. Smith dismissed as "conjecture" a question about whether Zumbo would have been fired had he not resigned.

"Jim is a good guy, and I feel bad about this unfortunate situation," Smith said. "We are living in very delicate times. For someone to call these firearms 'terrorist' rifles, that is a flash-point word. You are painting a bunch of enthusiasts with the word. They don't like being called terrorists."

When he wrote his now-notorious blog entry, Zumbo was on a coyote hunt in Wyoming sponsored by Remington, a detail he noted in the entry.

That mention -- as it bounced around in recent days among a number of assault-weapon Web sites -- triggered a call for a boycott of Remington products.

That prompted Remington to issue a news release, saying that it has "severed all sponsorship ties with Mr. Zumbo effective immediately."

Remington chief executive Tommy Millner issued a personal appeal to gun owners who might be thinking about boycotting the company's products: "Rest assured that Remington not only does not support [Zumbo's] view, we totally disagree," Millner said. "I have no explanation for his perspective. I proudly own AR's and support everyone's right to do so!"

Zumbo, in his public apology, said that when he wrote the blog entry that criticized assault rifles, he was at the end of a long day's hunt.

"I was tired and exhausted," he wrote, "and I should have gone to bed early."

© 2007 The Washington Post Company

Posted: 2/24/2007 6:56:33 PM EDT

[#48]

We got another traitor in our midst:

How Dave Prezal really feels about your right to own an AR-15 and an AK.

Does this make Petzel the John Kerry of firearms?

First I was against the ownership of evil assualt weapons.

Now I own one and I support their ownership.

F&S Petzals 1994 (Ban the Assault Rifle article) Field & Stream (West ed.), June 1994 v99 n2 p26(2)

Reveille. (gun control laws) David E. Petzal.

THE BUGLE CALL KNOWN AS REVEILLE IS A CHEERFUL, energetic tune that, when I was in the Army, few soldiers actually got to hear. The real reveille was something quite different; it consisted of the NCOIC (noncommissioned officer in charge) snapping on the overhead lights at 4:30 A.M. and slamming a sawed-off broom handle around the inside of a garbage can. That is about the least cheerful experience that you can have, but it wakes you up for fair, and brings you face to face with reality.

Real-world reveille came for gun owners this February in the form of a single sentence buried deep in the 1994 Federal Budget. On page 201 of that document, under the heading "Passing Effective Crime Control Legislation," there is this sentence: "The administration also supports a ban on semiautomatic firearms; limitations on access to handguns by juveniles; and the creation of a crime control fund to pay for eligible crime control initiatives."

The key phrase, the one that turns on the overhead lights and crashes the broom handle around in the GI can, is "a ban on semi-automatic firearms." Not "assault weapons," but semi-automatic firearms. All of them. It is simple English, and there is nothing else it can mean. It means all semi-autos.

It also means that the NRA has been right all along when it warned us that an "assault weapon" bill was only one of a series of steps in a much more ambitious plan to outlaw many types of firearms. If you would like to dismiss the NRA's warning as paranoid and hysterical, you must ignore the fact that the White House has put us on notice: All semi-autos are going to go if the Clinton Administration has its way.

In January, President Clinton included the following in his State of the Union Address to Congress:

"Hunters must always be free to hunt. Law-abiding adults should always be free to own guns and protect their homes. I respect that part of our culture. I grew up in it. . . . But I want to ask the sportsmen and others to join us in this campaign to stop gun violence. I say to you: I know you didn't create this problem, but we need your help to solve it. There is no sporting purpose on earth that should stop the United States Congress from banning assault weapons that out-gun police and cut down children."

Will the real Clinton policy please stand up? Before Congress and the United States, the President said he wants to get rid of assault weapons. In the Federal Budget, it's semi-automatic firearms. Which is the real agenda?

There are a couple of possibilities. One is that some overreaching functionary was confused by the terms "semi-automatic firearm" and "assault weapon" and assumed they were interchangeable. This. is given support by Barry Toiv, a spokesman for the Office of Management and the Budget, who was quoted as follows in the March 14th edition of The Washington Times: "The language in the budget is a mistake. It made its way through without being fixed."

A more likely scenario is somewhat simpler. The Administration wants to ban semi-automatic firearms, judged the political climate to be favorable, and decided to put its intent on the public record, albeit not in a forthright manner.

Let us now consider the legislation submitted to Congress by Senator Diane Feinstein (D/CA). Amendment No. 1152 would, if ratified, be applied to the Omnibus Crime Bill (which was passed late in 1993 by the Senate), and appears to be the type of "reasonable" gun bill that "reasonable" gun owners should support. Amendment 1152 would ban, by name, a number of firearms (or duplicates of same) such as the Colt AR-15, MAC-10 and NRC-11, Galu, Uzi, Street Sweeper, and others of this ilk [e.g., the FN-FAL]. It would also ban guns by description; i.e., firearms that incorporate folding or telescoping stocks, flash suppressors, threaded muzzles, bayonet lugs, grenade launchers, and "conspicuous" pistol grips.

Also included are semi-auto shotguns with magazines that hold more than five rounds, and any large-capacity magazines (tubular magazines for .22 rimfires exempted), which means those that hold more than ten rounds.

The Feinstein Amendment would, upon passage, allow the present owners of proscribed guns to keep them, provided that they obtained and maintained Form 4473s documenting their ownership. However, no new guns of the types described could be bought, sold, or owned by civilians.

The Amendment contains a sunset clause, meaning that it expires after ten years. It also contains a lengthy list of firearms that are exempt. These guns include bolt, pump, and lever-actions, and many semi-automatic rifles and shotguns of the sporting variety.

If you are a gun owner who is looking for the middle ground, it is very hard to argue against legislation such as this. Senator Feinstein, it seems, has made every effort to prescribe "assault weapons" and protect "legitimate firearms."

So what's wrong with supporting--or at least not opposing--this amendment? Perhaps nothing--except that the reveille sounded by the 1994 Federal Budget warns us we can't think of Amendment 1152 as a final step. Anti-gunners see it as an interim measure, paving the way for much wider prohibitions. Sarah Brady, Senator Metzenbaum, and others, have been quite honest about what they have in mind. The Feinstein Amendment is, in their view, just one in a series of steps to outlaw other types of firearms. The next step, without doubt, is handguns. In the lengthy list of "legitimate" guns protected by Amendment 1152, not one handgun is mentioned.

There's more. President Clinton, in a lengthy interview in the December 9, 1993 issue of Rolling Stone was asked by national editor William Greider:

"Is it conceivable that the country. . . could entertain the possibility of banning handguns? Is that a cockamamie idea in your mind? Or is that in the future?"

President Clinton answered: "I don't think the American people are there right now [emphasis mine]. But with more than 200 million guns in circulation, we've got so much more to do on this issue before we reach that. I don't think that's an option now [emphasis mine]. But there are certain kinds of guns that can be banned and a lot of other reasonable regulations that can be imposed. The American people's attitudes are going to be shaped by whether things get better or worse."

You are at liberty to interpret this any way you wish. My interpretation is: "We haven't got the votes for a handgun ban right now. In the future, if I think the votes are there, well go for it."

Judging by the letters we get at Field & Stream, and the people I talk to within the firearms industry, there are many of us who would like to rid the United States of assault weapons. It is true that these weapons account for only a miniscule percentage of armed crime, but the crimes they are used in tend to be horrific.

The classic example of this is the schoolyard massacre in Stockton, California, in 1989, when a deranged man named Patrick Purdy used an AK-47 clone to kill five children and wound twenty-nine others [in fact, most were shot with Purdy's 15-shot, 9mm handgun]. The fact that Purdy was at liberty with a gun of any kind was due to a catastrophic failure of the California justice system, but the question we have to ask is, if Purdy had not had a thirty-shot semi-automatic rifle that was designed for the express purpose of taking human life, would the carnage have been so great?

Much is made about the difficulty involved in defining an "assault weapon." However, firearms such as the AK-47, AKM, Uzi, Street Sweeper, and others [like the Fn-FAL] have two things in common: They are designed for killing people, and they enable a person who is unskilled in the use of firearms to do an extraordinary amount of damage in practically no time at all.

Assault weapons are designed to be produced quickly and cheaply, and in huge numbers. They are designed to operate under conditions that would destroy civilian small arms. They are designed to put out a high volume of fire with a high degree of controllability. It is these characteristics that prevent assault weapons from being us as anything but what they are. (The AR-15/M-16, and the M1A in modified form, are highly accurate, and have a legitimate place in organized target competition.) You can remove the flash suppressors and the bayonet lugs; you can change the shape of the stocks; you can sell "sporting" ammunition for them; but they remain guns for killing people.

Gun owners--all gun owners--pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons. The American public--and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public--would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma. We have received a wake-up call that clearly warns us that gun ownership is under siege. On the other hand, the public at large has been sent another kind of reveille: that guns are the root of most present-day evil, and the NRA is somehow to blame for the guns.

MOST AMERICANS HAVE LITTLE FAITH IN THE promises that politicians make, and with reason. Most gun owners are uneasy about making concessions of any kind, and with reason. But it may be time to consider shifting from an absolute opposition to any ban on any guns to an effort to get lawmakers to include a guarantee that will safeguard our handguns, and other arms--something not subject to the whims of the BATF or the Secretary of the Treasury or Sarah Brady. If the Feinstein Amendment included a list of "protected" handguns, and did away with its prohibition on magazines that hold more than ten shots, that would be something for us to think about. If Senator Fienstein is willing to meet gun owners halfway, we should think about her amendment very hard indeed.

For at some point we must face the fact that an Uzi or an AKM or an Ak-47 should no more be generally available than a Claymore mine or a block of C4 explosive. It is time for these guns to be limited to people with Treasury Department licenses, just as with fully automatic arms. I doubt if anyone would suffer much without assault weapons. Surely, we will suffer with them.

Posted: 2/24/2007 7:13:00 PM EDT

[#49]

The washington post has a nice article for our pleasure: Washington Post liberal tripe

The comments have attracted the antis into the fray

My commetn on Petzal:

I think Petzal is the John Kerry of gun writers.

He really can't tell where he sits on this fence.

First, he was a hero because he owned an AR15 way back in 1965.

Then, he decided that it wasn't popular to be a hero so he sold his fellow gun owners out back in 1994.

Then, Petzal decided that he likedbeing a hero again so now he is all for owning his AR15.

What is wrong with this man and his flip flopping? Doesn't he sound just like John Kerry?

Hey David . . who did you vote for? Did you vote for the gun grabbing democrats?

Sincerly,

Sean

Posted: 2/24/2007 11:04:30 PM EDT

[#50]

This is up to 58 pages, even though it is essentially over. F&S believes they are golden then fine. They will see it in their pocket books.

Now is the time to apply our victory to other efforts.

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=550473

^^^^ it might not work, but if it does we will make a point. It is the next logical step in this process. We need to take on someone or something other than a Fudd now.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com (Page 29 of 30)

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