User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:28:54 PM EDT
[#1]
I do rolls and side flops too!
Unless I just want it dead, I retreat to cover. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:29:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, I practice this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:32:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Please tell me why.. When do you think you will need to use this practice? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:32:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Yes,definately.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:36:41 PM EDT
[#5]
I'd rather move backwards. I find it more likely that retreating would serve me instead of advancing while firing.
"Proximity negates skill." -Clint Smith |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:44:11 PM EDT
[#6]
It is limited in use for a civilian, but a tool in the tool box. But, if you have an intruder in your house, and you have to clear your home, it could be handy. Example, in my parent's home there is a bedroom downstairs. Waiting upstairs is not an option if family or guests are downstairs with an intruder. It would be necessary to go on the offensive.
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=27&t=212137 Selfless plug. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:50:30 PM EDT
[#7]
OK..Let's play devil's advocate here: Your family is downstairs and there is an intruder in your home. Why wouldn't you seek cover and concealment rather than exposing yourself while advancing firing your weapon? If I have to clear my home(Done it several times already) I will stay away from that fatal funnel and look to conceal myself from any bad guys waiting for me. Slice the pie 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:51:36 PM EDT
[#8]
We do it for officer down scenarios. Also, anytime you are advancing to take ground or clear a room/building, you can encounter a threat.
You should practice it along with any other type of movement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:51:44 PM EDT
[#9]
I do also..
at first just simply cause I had land to shoot on freely... then in the boredoom you imagine your wife/lovef one not by your side.. ie other sideof the parking lot..house..... then you get into the 'want' to practice it mode... you car is 100 yards away....<think large mall parkingllt> shooting behind and in front .. yes they are crazy far off never gonna happen things...but so is being robed so I do it just incase...and its fun to change things up |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:55:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Firing while manuvering takes a lot of practice to get effective volume of hits as opposed to shoot and move. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:01:08 PM EDT
[#11]
While clearing a house you have to MOVE, right? If you see a target while moving, it would be nice to have practiced shooting on the move. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:15:24 PM EDT
[#12]
A tool in the toolbox, in case I am moving and encounter a threat. Violence of action is paramount, and shooting without pausing to stand still is preferable.
At least thats what I was taught... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:17:06 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't really "practice" it but I do it from time to time. Hell, I did it the other day at the range with my Glock.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:26:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Motionless
Operators Ventilate Easily If I'm ever in a gunfight I hope the people I'm shooting at haven't practiced moving at all. That will bring my probability of survivability way up, and theirs way down, since I'm pretty good at hitting stationary targets by now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:27:11 PM EDT
[#15]
A military tactic , but I suppose it could be used in a civilian shoot .
not sure why it would be though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:29:42 PM EDT
[#16]
If you keep pushing forward, you throw them off balance mentally.
This is more of a military thing than a civilian thing, but it is unnerving to see someone not only shooting at you, but coming towards you as well. You naturally want to get away. Maybe I post this pic too much but I like showing off, it boosts my ego. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:31:53 PM EDT
[#17]
You think cover is always going to be behind you? Or are you going to run and not fire back until you get cover? 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:00:02 AM EDT
[#18]
The bad guy is in between you and your three year old daughter. Which way are you going to go? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:06:26 AM EDT
[#19]
It never hurts to train for something you may never use.
It will definately hurt to have passed up training for something you suddenly need. Shooting on the move is very, very hard. This includes forwards, backwards, and side to side. It includes running and walking, and "battle-slides." If you were in a gunbattle, and you needed to move to get to cover or escape, it helps if you can shoot accurately while doing so. If for no other reason, you can fire some accuracte suppressive shots to keep them from following you. I like a challenge, and I like accomplishing things. Most of all, it's fun. Shooting while on the move, while I hate benchresting, and just standing there. I love moving around, getting dirty, and downing paper bad guys. Let ME play the devil's advocate. What does it hurt? Why not? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:13:27 AM EDT
[#20]
No kidding, advancing toward cover could be your ONLY option
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:14:17 AM EDT
[#21]
Completely tangent to this topic, but I built a dedicatd .22 AR rifle expressly for the purpose of getting in more shooting while moving practice. (In all 360 degrees).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:16:00 AM EDT
[#22]
Backwards , unless I have a clear precise shot at his head , I would not want my 3 year old daughter standing in the middle while we are exchanging rounds  I would lead him away . This is providing it's me he's after. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:17:45 AM EDT
[#23]
it is a cool pic though 87
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:20:54 AM EDT
[#24]
Because YOU don't get to choose how or when or where you get in a gunfight, who cares if it's likely? Most of us carry guns, and we'll be more than happy if we never have to use them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:35:39 AM EDT
[#25]
You both are correct , I guess what I was thinking was more of a ambush senario caught in a cross fire. To advance is the usually the best option. and I have never stopped training . Just not as much anymore  , still to this day I sometimes shoot while moving. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:40:51 AM EDT
[#26]
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 1:58:36 AM EDT
[#27]
The immediate action drill for a near ambush is to close with, overrun and destoy the threat.
I have buried several coworkers who tried to retreat to cover. I have buried no coworkers who moved forward towards cover while engaging the threat with aimed fire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 2:11:00 AM EDT
[#28]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 2:22:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Considering the other guy might be firing back at you... A moving target (you) is harder to hit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 2:31:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Because the threat is between you and the exit. Imagine that someone comes into a bank you are in with guns blazing. They are between you and the door and it is the only way out. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 3:11:37 AM EDT
[#31]
think: shooting until the target thinks he'is dead!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 3:34:12 AM EDT
[#32]
eh hem, I used to play paintball. And I was pretty damn good. The way you move isnt really like those guys in the pictures are doing it. Is more like; sprint your ass off to find cover, shoot, covering fire, sprint to the next cover, repeat. None of this 5mph "tactical" advancing.
Run your ass off to cover, shoot, repeat. Move move move. But what do I know...its just paintball. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 3:39:03 AM EDT
[#33]
I'm no HSLD guy but one thing I notice (in my reading and training video watching) that is important for two reasons, is to learn how to move while shooting. It's important because 1: it keeps you moving, and moving targets are harder to hit, and 2: adopts an aggressive posture which is key for you because you need to maintain a psychological edge. They may have attacked you, but you're bringing the fight to them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 4:43:12 AM EDT
[#34]
The slow "Groucho" duck walk is for controlled, more precise fire. You are corret that in some scenarios you want to cover ground rapidly. YOu can still put hits on target, but you might not be getting the precision that the "duck walk" will give you to control the wobble. So, both methods have their place and both should be practiced. I train to shoot while moving. I think the points about why you should train to move forward while shooting have already been made. Mark |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 4:47:04 AM EDT
[#35]
So if there is someone has broken into your house and some of your family is downstairs you are going to hide upstairs with a rifle while they have their way with your family? WTF? 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 4:51:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Are you serious?
There is no law I am aware of that says you can only use lethal force when in reverse.... |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 4:55:14 AM EDT
[#37]
The "5mph 'tactical' advancing" is designed to allow you to fire accurately while still moving. It turns out that in real life someone who is moving AND throwing bullets in your direction with some accuracy is kind of hard to hit. The best cover in the world is accurate return fire. People react differently when the projectiles have lead cores instead of paint. There are times when it is appropriate to just beat feet as fast as you can, but there are also times when it is appropriate to move while putting out effective fire. Guys who have survived real firefights routinely tell instructors that shooting on the move (rather than learning to sprint from cover to cover) was the most valuable combat skill they learned. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 5:00:11 AM EDT
[#38]
I second that, the debate was over before it even started! This comes back to a mindset thing: Most people against advancing have said that "it would look bad to a jury" Now before you get into a gunfight you need to make the descision is this a justified use of lethal force. Once that decision is made you do whatever it takes to stop the threat! There should be no other thoughts than move shoot communicate once the lethal force threshold is made |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 5:00:44 AM EDT
[#39]
+1 Just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean you have to ALWAYS be on the defensive through out the situation. You are on the defensive until you need to draw and fire, after that............. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 5:16:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Because you need to be the one controlling the fight; you need to become the aggressive one.
Within the civilian world, retreating is good; but you don't want to turn your back and you most certainly don't want to trip. I'd rather advance 5 feet to cover than retreat 10 cover. Moving while shooting puts you in a whole 'nother class from a bad guy. All of a sudden you become very hard to hit; and if you've practiced enough, you can still make reliable hits. Moving, shooting, and cover are your keys to surviving a gun fight. Your tool is aggression; enough aggression will mind-fuck the bad guy more than any shooting ability will. That said, shooting ability certainly doesn't hurt and is the key to making the threat cease. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 5:40:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Ditto that. Here is a crazy little tid bit..... Lots of times, bad guys EXPECT you to run away. Advancing on a bad guy while firing has a crazy tendancy of making them decide that this wasnt quite what they bargained for and causes THEM to head the other direction. I know, I know, bad guys of the world are mostly all super men with nerves of steel and no fear, but SOMETIMES the best defense is a good offense. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 5:52:00 AM EDT
[#42]
You might want to advance to put yourself between a bad guy (or a large threatening dog) and a member of your family. I think any man would put himself between a threat and his loved ones if there isn't a way to move his loved ones to cover. If you were in a big open area like a parking lot and you are threatened and the only cover is between you and the attacker you might want to advance to try and get to the cover first or keep the bad guy from getting to it. If you encounter an intruder in your home and when you tell him to stop he turns and runs down the hall toward the bedroom where your 5 year old daughter is asleep. Are you going to advance while shooting to keep him from getting to your baby and doing who knows what to her? Suppose you were in your house and your kids are calling for help at the end of the hall. As you come down the hall a bad guy steps out of the bathroom door half way down the hall and blocks your path. The kids are still calling for help. The only way to get there is through or over the intruder. Are you going to advance while shooting or are you going to retreat and call 9-1-1 while assuming he is the only bad guy? I came up with those four in less time than I took to type them. There are infinitely more examples both in our imaginations and that happened in real life that would justify advancing on an attacker while shooting or not. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:04:31 AM EDT
[#43]
1 bad guy in front , 2 bad guys in back, you want his cover, take it by advancing. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:06:16 AM EDT
[#44]
I train on it all them time.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:08:22 AM EDT
[#45]
+1 Re: "Groucho" and 5MPH tactical walking: 1) 5MPH is actually a pretty good clip. Normal walking is 2MPH 2) I don't really like the "Groucho", rather I prefer the SAS style of shooting on the move: Walking at a normal pace, on the "go"/threat/whatever command, keep your pace but shorten your stride... (think baby steps)  Old pic, and no, I'm not getting a "tactical wedgie". I'm being slowed up by a training partner so I don't get too far out in front of the rest of the guys shooting.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:11:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Yes, I practice firing while moving forward, side to side and while retreating. It's been said before, shooting a moving target is difficult and exponentially so when there is an accurate volley of incoming fire effectively suppressing them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:15:51 AM EDT
[#47]
You are confuxing skill building exercises with tactics.
Tactics are dictated by the situation. Skills are what you use to impliment the tactic. The skill is to stabilize your upper shooting platform and make hits while your legs navigate terrain in all directions. Why would you leave out one aspect of the skill set? Doing so makes it hard to build on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:58:07 AM EDT
[#48]
I've run drills adavancing on targets. I think shooting and moving in any direction is important.
Walking towards a threat while shooting also has a huge psychological effect on the target. Most dirt bags expect people to run in the opposite direction. J |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 7:07:04 AM EDT
[#49]
I've done it in some classes so I practice it but not terribly often. I practice moving sideways as well.
It's in the IDPA Qualifier if I recall correctly. Doesn't hurt to practice it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2007 7:14:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Sometime you have to take the fight to them. Advancing is often the last thing the predator expects. Jeff
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
