460XVR blew my thumb off today! Warning: graphic pics pg 15-17 - Page 17

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 460XVR blew my thumb off today! Warning: graphic pics pg 15-17 (Page 17 of 21)

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:27:19 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
The OP posted this in the thread at the other forum;

"There's a chance my thumb slipped up to near the cylinder gap, but I think this is still a fatal flaw in the gun. A long time ago before I knew anything I had my left hand right by the cylinder gap on a .357 mag and got a nice burn and a bit of blood seeped out. But if having enough gas escaping out the side of the gun to remove fingers is part of the design, all I can say is WTF were they thinking?"

Sounds like the fact he thinks he can somehow fit his thumb near the cylinder gap is S&W's fault and a fatal desing flaw??!! That is pathetic reasoning.

The fact that he allowed it to happen twice.... sounds like User flaw....

we've been shooting wheel guns for how long now???

Hardly heard of that happening to anyone.. in fact my first time hearing this.... and to hear that it happened twice to the same man.... Blows my mind away like I just held my thumb near the cylinder on my .357

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:30:04 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/rraaaa/DSC02794.jpg

No, it is not a hillbilly laser sight. I was showing a neighbor how much movement there is when pulling a double action trigger. That is why the laser level is on the .460 but it shows that if you were to hold it with the "cup and saucer" grip but placed the "saucer" (your cupped left palm) on the trigger guard instead of the grip, your thumb could easily be in perfect alignment with the front plane of the cylinder.

I am sorry but that is just plain wrong. The pistol doesn't move before the gas pressure has already been discharged. It happens a fraction of a second. Even in this pistol, the gas pressure has been massively reduced before recoil starts.

In a 45 lc or other slow round, they height of the front sight was taller to account for the recoil, while the bullet was still inside the barrel. That is why a light, fast round will hit lower than the normal sights in a 45 lc.

These guns are operating on massively more speed. What the gun does after its inertia is over come is irrelevant.

ETA: Why don't you post pictures of thumbs forward and cup and saucer to show us how it can happen. Your hands are small and you couldn't come close to the gap with any normal grip. The gun should not be moving more than a few tenths of an inch during double action trigger pull, unless your a really crappy shot.

Take the pictures directly from the profile so we can see it well.

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:43:49 PM EDT

[#3]

batman...you missed the point completly.

Here is more a picture of what I meant could have happened.

improper grip = ouch!

(and YES S.O. it is a custom P.C. S&W)

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:46:20 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
batman...you missed the point completly.

Here is more a picture of what I meant could have happened.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/rraaaa/DSC04293.jpg

improper grip = ouch!

(and YES S.O. it is a custom P.C. S&W)

Does the brake really do much to control the recoil?

S.O.

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:49:47 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
batman...you missed the point completly.

Here is more a picture of what I meant could have happened.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/rraaaa/DSC04293.jpg

improper grip = ouch!

(and YES S.O. it is a custom P.C. S&W)

I understand what you were trying to say, but you are not showing the cup and saucer technique as I have seen it. Usually, the shooter cups the bottom of the grip and their shooting hand. I have never seen anyone cup the bottom of the pistol in the awkward way you have shown it.

You are exactly correct that this is what the OP did, and is blaming S&W..

Awesome pistol by the way!

Sorry for the confusion.

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:54:54 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Does the brake really do much to control the recoil?

S.O.

Yes. It is called a "keyhole compensator" and it is amazing, firing 4 counteracting jet blasts that effectivly "freeze" the muzzle from any up and down or sideways movement. If has almost no flip...just more of a big push straight back. Very comfortable to shoot...even one handed.

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:56:28 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

BTW, I bought my 460 new and had exactly 12 rounds through it.

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:58:20 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
batman...you missed the point completly.

Here is more a picture of what I meant could have happened.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/rraaaa/DSC04293.jpg

improper grip = ouch!

(and YES S.O. it is a custom P.C. S&W)

I want.

The gun, not the hand.

Posted: 1/22/2008 5:59:21 PM EDT

[#9]

height=8

Quoted:
height=8

Quoted:
What I'm saying is that a properly built revolver has a cylinder gap that limits the amount of force that can escape. the "area" of the gap is (or should be) so small that the minimum gets out.

If the gap is too small the revolver will bind up as it fouls. IIRC .002-.006" is standard for the gap.

Indeed.

My point, which I'm not making very well, is that: Even though a REGULAR and PROPER gap will fuck you up if you get too close, a gap that is twice or three times as large will fuck you up WORSE. That's one issue I'd look into if I were asked to evaluate that gun (e.g., if it were for sale and I were interested in buying it).

Waterjet

The gases escaping from the cylinder gap can be equated to something like a water jet Ultra-High Pressure(60k psi) with an abrasive(lead particles/powder residue etc.).

They can cut through steel like a knife through hot butter.

Hot gases from a muzzle or from a cylinder gap should not be taken lightly.
Blank cartridges are capable of serious injury or even death.
The M15A2/M23 BFA aren't used/designed to act as an "orange" barrel tip on a toy gun.

I think is a good learning experience for everyone involved and we should take it from there.
To the OP best of luck to you hope the chop shop does you right.

ETA: Saw mention of 12 psi of shop air being enough pressure to pop an eyeball out of socket!

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:06:26 PM EDT

[#10]

I missed some pages, has anyone said it?

46Owned

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:17:16 PM EDT

[#11]

WARNING: ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FINGERS AWAY
FROM THE AREA BETWEEN THE CYLINDER AND
THE BARREL DURING FIRING. PARTICLES AND HOT
GAS WILL BE FORCED OUT FROM BETWEEN THE BARREL
AND CYLINDER IN ANY REVOLVER DURING NORMAL USE.
FAILURE TO FOLLOW THIS WARNING WILL CAUSE SERIOUS
PERSONAL INJURY.

Hope you have a speedy recovery

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:24:16 PM EDT

[#12]

Still waiting for pics of the gun.

Turbo, glad to hear the pain isn't so bad, but trust me, take some drugs before attempting another cleaning. God, the cleanings are the worst part. I'm someone who's got a very high tolerance to pain, but I damn near passed out the second time, with no drugs, I tried to clean and rebandage my index finger. If the bathroom I was in wasn't so small that the walls basically held me up, I would have been on the floor.

I've shot revolvers all my life. I remember my Dad warning me as a kid not to put my hands forward of the rear cylinder gap, because as a kid I shot his 8" barrel S&W K22. It had the huge target grips and for a 8 year old, even a big 8 year old, it was too much and I'd move my off hand up front. Finally he just let me do it, that or he wasn't watching close enough, and I had a burnt thumb. Hurt like hell, but it was a good lesson. I'd hate to learn that lesson with a .460.

Again, here's to hoping your thumb heals up fast and well.

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:24:52 PM EDT

[#13]

We just sold a .460 S&W a while back, with a Loopy pistol scope, ammo, rig...the whole nine yards...the guy had the pistol for the weekend, brought it back, and wanted us to give him his money back...said the gun was defective. His left hand was bandaged up, and he said the gun was at fault...we took it back to the trap and I doubled six through it with no problems. he wanted to know what the fuck I did...because it didn't hurt me.....then he explains how he held the revolver, he cupped his left hand around the front of the cylinder....OMG...lol we bought the gun back and told him he wasn't smart enough to own it....he was a doctor...."been shooting guns for years" People have to watch revolvers and brakes.....those gas jets are a bitch! I didn't think people would actually do such a thing.....but oh well, guess it takes all kinds

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:44:23 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm curious if it doubled, IE, recoil reset trigger and it was pulled again while being pulled down out of recoil. If the weak hand slipped foward toward the cylinder gap I could see nasty things happening.

Impossible.

Really? I read it was happening [doubling] and they couldn't figure it out til they vid recorded it. Some were also unlocking and rotating backwards [cylinder] onto the already fired chamber.

My buddy bought a 500 when they first came out. The FIRST shot he fired doubled on him. I thought he was going to drop the gun he was in so much pain.

without some sort of documentation.

You haven't lived until you bump-fire a revolver.

Accidental doubletaps were rare, but they did happen.
As far as I know, it is still quite possible.

It almost happened to me. I had fired about 30 rounds or so,
and my hand was pretty tired. The last shot, boom. Typical.
Except this time when I got the recoil under control, the trigger felt funny.

It felt funny because the hammer was coming back, and the cylinder was
rotating for the next shot. I was very close to having a big accident.

Ever since then, I don't load the cyinder full unless I am fresh.

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:48:53 PM EDT

[#15]

One more pic of the cylinder gap on a .460

If you look close you can see where it has done some cutting on the top strap made of hard stainless.

A little over 900 rounds through the gun.

Posted: 1/22/2008 6:51:33 PM EDT

[#16]

I only have one theng to say SIIHPAPP!

Posted: 1/22/2008 7:25:49 PM EDT

[#17]

tag-a-licious to see where this goes.

Posted: 1/22/2008 7:27:54 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Actually I have about 20 .45 long colt rounds through it, 12 .460 rounds. On the day this happened I shot 5 LC rounds, then loaded up the .460. And I've said a few times in this thread that I'm confident my thumb was back near or slightly behind the rear of the cylinder, although the thumb was still partially vertical and not a grip I should have used.

But I know the urge to be an internet know-it-all isa almost unbearable.

You are now confident about your thumb being behind the cylinder but before you posted this;

"There's a chance my thumb slipped up to near the cylinder gap, but I think this is still a fatal flaw in the gun. A long time ago before I knew anything I had my left hand right by the cylinder gap on a .357 mag and got a nice burn and a bit of blood seeped out. But if having enough gas escaping out the side of the gun to remove fingers is part of the design, all I can say is WTF were they thinking?"

Which story is the real one?

how about the one were there is a terminology mix up and what he is calling the cylinder gap is slightly behind the rear of the cylinder... and you are taking everything way to seriously.

ever thought of that?

I don't know him. I don't know what happened but you guys have got to lay off the personal attacks or you're going to get your accounts locked.

Just wish him well and ask questions... NON leading, NON condescending, NON accusatory questions.

Posted: 1/22/2008 7:28:43 PM EDT

[#19]

You know, I've been shooting pretty much my whole life, but never really cared much about revolvers. I had no idea this could happen, even though it makes perfect sense.

Posted: 1/22/2008 7:35:46 PM EDT

[#20]

This thread makes me want to go back and re-read all the red print in manuals for my various firearms.

I just wish they were a little more reader-friendly. It's hard to slog through paragraphs of all-caps, red-on-white text. My eyes sort of glaze over after the 17th page of "ENSURE THE GUN IS UNLOADED BEFORE...etc." The sheer amount of "WARNING" this and that text in most firearm manuals is greater than the text actually telling you how to operate the weapon!

Posted: 1/22/2008 7:54:23 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
This thread makes me want to go back and re-read all the red print in manuals for my various firearms.

I just wish they were a little more reader-friendly. It's hard to slog through paragraphs of all-caps, red-on-white text. My eyes sort of glaze over after the 17th page of "ENSURE THE GUN IS UNLOADED BEFORE...etc." The sheer amount of "WARNING" this and that text in most firearm manuals is greater than the text actually telling you how to operate the weapon!

This thread is an example of how those pages came about.

Posted: 1/22/2008 7:58:09 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Just wish him well and ask questions... NON leading, NON condescending, NON accusatory questions.

Your on the web home of 87% of armchair commandos.

They'll spew thier opinons left and right, regardless of anything, and in doing so make sure that the OP will quit posting, and this will never be resolved.

What are you thinking?

Posted: 1/22/2008 8:09:28 PM EDT

[#23]

I sent the link to this thread, and the pics to someone that I know for a fact has been shooting revolvers competitively for longer than I've been walking upright. Here is the response:

I am scratching my head on this one. I am not sure the blast out the side of the cylinder would do this. Maybe it would.

I shot my 44 mag for years from the Creedmoor position with a piece of leather protecting my leg from the cylinder blast, I even shot it once without the leather protection (the gun is held against my leg) and it wasn’t too bad. I had some powder residue in my leg but no blood.

Maybe he has really soft skin!

(regarding the Creedmoor position and leather protection - I've seen the leather from this persons opinion, and while the blast would be annoying at least, I don't see it doing digital amputation)

Given the opinion of someone I know quite well, and I know knows revolvers inside and out, I'm holding out for pics of the gun.

Perhaps .460 cylinder gap pressures are enough above a .44 that it could make the difference.

Perhaps something else happened.

The simple fact that "don't ever get something near the cylinder gap" is something I've never heard of before makes me question the pistols ability to do that sort of damage.

Posted: 1/22/2008 8:10:03 PM EDT

[#24]

Tag for pics of the gun/brass.

Posted: 1/22/2008 8:32:33 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I sent the link to this thread, and the pics to someone that I know for a fact has been shooting revolvers competitively for longer than I've been walking upright. Here is the response:

I am scratching my head on this one. I am not sure the blast out the side of the cylinder would do this. Maybe it would.

I shot my 44 mag for years from the Creedmoor position with a piece of leather protecting my leg from the cylinder blast, I even shot it once without the leather protection (the gun is held against my leg) and it wasn’t too bad. I had some powder residue in my leg but no blood.

Maybe he has really soft skin!

(regarding the Creedmoor position and leather protection - I've seen the leather from this persons opinion, and while the blast would be annoying at least, I don't see it doing digital amputation)

Given the opinion of someone I know quite well, and I know knows revolvers inside and out, I'm holding out for pics of the gun.

Perhaps .460 cylinder gap pressures are enough above a .44 that it could make the difference.

Perhaps something else happened.

The simple fact that "don't ever get something near the cylinder gap" is something I've never heard of before makes me question the pistols ability to do that sort of damage.

[Karnack the Magnificent] I see more testing in my future.[/Karnack the Magnificent]

"The simple fact that "don't ever get something near the cylinder gap" is something I've never heard of before makes me question the pistols ability to do that sort of damage."

This is really quite well known. I, myself, am shocked how many here were not aware of it and how bad it can be.

S.O.

Posted: 1/22/2008 10:50:56 PM EDT

[#26]

Boomer:

The 460 S&W is loaded 15,000 to 20,000 PSI higher than the strongest .44 Mag loads. And maybe even more when you're talking about the corbon loads with the lighter bullets and highest velocities.

I'm sorry, but these monsters are sui generous.

From where I sit, the wound is the best evidence of what happened. I was at a range when someone had a revolver fail due to a bad reload, Both of his hands got fucked up, though none as singly bad as the poster here. Plus the guy's face was peppered, and both forearms took flack. (I took flack lanes away -- and this was an outdoor range so not just feet away, but a good distance).

This injury is so focused that there's almost nothing else it COULD be. (I mean, OK, I suppose he could have put his thumb over a compensator hole and done the same thing, but, well, that's where I am.

Someone with a real .460 is going to have to use it on a skin-on chicken breast, I think. Watch, though. I'll bet we'll see serious damage.

ETA: Its weird that lots of use heard/were taught about the cylinder gap and others haven't even heard of it. As I posted early on, my pops showed me how the gap could slice a hole in an aluminum can. Weird.

Posted: 1/22/2008 10:55:04 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

ETA: Its weird that lots of use heard/were taught about the cylinder gap and others haven't even heard of it. As I posted early on, my pops showed me how the gap could slice a hole in an aluminum can. Weird.

+1
That is the only thing I found surprising in this whole thread.

Everything else is DUH....

S.O.

Posted: 1/22/2008 11:16:19 PM EDT

[#28]

Sorry to hear about your thumb.

I'm waiting for images of the gun/cartridges, but only because I want to see what, if any, damage is present. (I too am from the "Show-Me" State.) If the OP is 100% correct in his assumed hand position, I'd say a ruptured case head or blown primer caused this. I'm betting that CorBon would be highly interested if this occured with one of their loads.

As far as all the other riff/raff about lawsuits, defective designs, yada yada yada, it's irrelevant to the fact that this gentleman has had serious damage done to what is usually an important part of his anatomy. It is his and soley his decision to persue legal action. It may not be right is someone's eyes, but that someone will not have to go through life with a damaged thumb.

On a side note, better you than me, man. Good luck.

Posted: 1/22/2008 11:59:20 PM EDT

[#29]

Test Revolver - Ruger Redhawk, .44 Remington Magnum, 7.5" Barrel

A comfortable hold, even if it's not high speed/low drag enough for all of the armchair commandos

The hold that would have been needed to produce the injury (assuming that a .460 can)

With how awkward the third pic felt to me, I'm going to reserve any opinion until the OP posts the status of the firearm.

I think I'll experiment with objects close to the cylinder gap this weekend. My gut feeling is that it's ability to cause the injuries shown is vastly overstated.

Posted: 1/23/2008 12:02:58 AM EDT

[#30]

Holy fuck, I bet that hurt

Posted: 1/23/2008 12:10:44 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The OP posted this in the thread at the other forum;

"There's a chance my thumb slipped up to near the cylinder gap, but I think this is still a fatal flaw in the gun. A long time ago before I knew anything I had my left hand right by the cylinder gap on a .357 mag and got a nice burn and a bit of blood seeped out. But if having enough gas escaping out the side of the gun to remove fingers is part of the design, all I can say is WTF were they thinking?"

Sounds like the fact he thinks he can somehow fit his thumb near the cylinder gap is S&W's fault and a fatal desing flaw??!! That is pathetic reasoning.

The fact that he allowed it to happen twice.... sounds like User flaw....

we've been shooting wheel guns for how long now???

Hardly heard of that happening to anyone.. in fact my first time hearing this.... and to hear that it happened twice to the same man.... Blows my mind away like I just held my thumb near the cylinder on my .357

+1
This amazes me as well. The OP admits he did this before with a .357mag revolver. So he does it again with a .460! So twice the pressure and say triple the powder charge and you will not have more damage?

I feel sorry for you pain and suffering, but sometimes STUPID HURTS!

Posted: 1/23/2008 1:37:24 AM EDT

[#32]

height=8

Quoted:

S&W and Corbon were made aware of this thread late last night.

S.O.

Hahaah, reminds me of back when I was 7 years old. . . "im gonna tell on you. . ."
Seriously, nice pointing that gun at the cameraman 21 seconds into your video. Shows how "safe" you are. I think I will make people aware of this. . . . . .Im gonna tell. . .

Posted: 1/23/2008 1:46:27 AM EDT

[#33]

height=8

Quoted:
You know, I've been shooting pretty much my whole life, but never really cared much about revolvers. I had no idea this could happen, even though it makes perfect sense.

Same here, but now I do, and a good lesson learned.

Posted: 1/23/2008 2:04:43 AM EDT

[#34]

The most likely reason for the explosion is the round number 11 was light loaded and didnt exit the barrel when the #12 round was fired causing excessive barrel and cylinder pressure. At that point somethings gotta happen and it will open the barrel and exit where the weakest spot is.

Posted: 1/23/2008 2:28:08 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
The most likely reason for the explosion is the round number 11 was light loaded and didnt exit the barrel when the #12 round was fired causing excessive barrel and cylinder pressure. At that point somethings gotta happen and it will open the barrel and exit where the weakest spot is.

Or more likely is that the OP had his hand to far forward and had a hard lesson of what 65,000 psi can do to you. Really the 460/.454 Casull's are a whole nuther world of hurt compared to a .44mag or similar.

Posted: 1/23/2008 3:11:38 AM EDT

[#36]

pictures say louder than words. Post the pics please.

Posted: 1/23/2008 4:07:36 AM EDT

[#37]

www.liveleak.com/view?i=502_1201038490

Posted: 1/23/2008 4:21:59 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
nice pointing that gun at the cameraman 21 seconds into your video.

Posted: 1/23/2008 4:22:10 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
www.liveleak.com/view?i=502_1201038490

... Excellent !!!

... I have a S&W500 Magnum and I get incredible spall from the cylinder gap whilst using unjacketed hunting ammo. Before I saw this great video, I thought about doing a similar illustration with the photos here to show that the cut id in fact consistent with that being in the same plane of his .460 gap when held like this

Posted: 1/23/2008 4:23:57 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
nice pointing that gun at the cameraman 21 seconds into your video.

Not my video

Posted: 1/23/2008 5:32:35 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
www.liveleak.com/view?i=502_1201038490

... Excellent !!!

... I have a S&W500 Magnum and I get incredible spall from the cylinder gap whilst using unjacketed hunting ammo. Before I saw this great video, I thought about doing a similar illustration with the photos here to show that the cut id in fact consistent with that being in the same plane of his .460 gap when held like this

Waiting for the video --- but this time use chicken drumsticks or wings.

Posted: 1/23/2008 5:52:01 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
www.liveleak.com/view?i=502_1201038490

COOL!!!

Posted: 1/23/2008 5:59:29 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

With how awkward the third pic felt to me, I'm going to reserve any opinion until the OP posts the status of the firearm.

I think I'll experiment with objects close to the cylinder gap this weekend. My gut feeling is that it's ability to cause the injuries shown is vastly overstated.

And if you raised your thumb up it would be near the actual cylinder gap and would incur serious injury. This is well within the realm of possibility--and is not only possible, but very likely, as the OP indicated the gun is very front-heavy and unwieldy.

Posted: 1/23/2008 6:49:53 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

S&W and Corbon were made aware of this thread late last night.

S.O.

Hahaah, reminds me of back when I was 7 years old. . . "im gonna tell on you. . ."
Seriously, nice pointing that gun at the cameraman 21 seconds into your video. Shows how "safe" you are. I think I will make people aware of this. . . . . .Im gonna tell. . .

Well, 1st off, the gun was never pointed at the camera. 2nd, I don't think my camera holder was nervous. You should apologize to IT for bringing it into this....here....apologize. .

2nd, If you read the whole thread we have seen the OP post inconsistent stories of what happened and no pics of a weapon or cartridge. I am wondering if this wasn't another soon to be famous ARFCOM hoax.
He says he does not want to sue but speaks of hoping they "settle quietly". Guess what happens when companies do that...They get bad PR and the cost of product goes up. Things gun owners don't need. If this situation is real, they would find out from someone regardless and DESERVE to know.
If someone uses a product YOU made and by all appearances does something stupid to hurt themselves and starts talking about settlement I think you may want to know ASAP, even from a 3rd party.

Thinking skills, some people need them.

Posted: 1/23/2008 7:14:47 AM EDT

[#45]

there are chics out there already wet with excitement over that man scar..
women like a man with character..

Posted: 1/23/2008 8:38:38 AM EDT

[#46]

This thread was referenced in an email to me. I've just spent three hours reading every post.

Some of you may know who I am and the development work I've done on the X-frames...

First of all, I would have been amazed ten years ago that a shooter wouldn't know that the B/C gap of a revolver was a bad place to put body parts near, but no longer. After running several dozen people a week (for four years) though the practical section of my CCW course, I see people change their grips and hold guns in all sorts of weird ways, trying to get an improvement. "Cup and saucer" with the left hand under the frame and left thumb pointing up and forward near the gap is fairly common. At least one shooter a week does this at some point.

I start people off with K22s so the worst that might happen is mild discomfort. I use soda cans and a .357 for those who don't quite get it yet. Now I'll bring pics of your thumb and ask if anyone wants to shoot my .500 with an improper grip.

OP, I live in St. Louis so I can inspect your gun if you want. I'll bring Hornady factory .460 ammo and will shoot it immediately if the cylinder is intact.

Your injury doesn't look quite as bad as I'd originally feared. I met a man who cut his fingertip off with a Freedom Arms .454 by holding it next to the gap. Just like a laser.

One of the best docs anywhere for reattachment of digits is in St. Louis, Dr. Richard Coin. Ask your guy about him. I realize you don't need reattachment, but he may have some wisdom.

Good luck on your recovery. And let me know if you want to step up to one of my .500s...

JR

www.john-ross.net

Posted: 1/23/2008 8:46:10 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
This thread was referenced in an email to me. I've just spent three hours reading every post.

Some of you may know who I am and the development work I've done on the X-frames...

First of all, I would have been amazed ten years ago that a shooter wouldn't know that the B/C gap of a revolver was a bad place to put body parts near, but no longer. After running several dozen people a week (for four years) though the practical section of my CCW course, I see people change their grips and hold guns in all sorts of weird ways, trying to get an improvement. "Cup and saucer" with the left hand under the frame and left thumb pointing up and forward near the gap is fairly common. At least one shooter a week does this at some point.

I start people off with K22s so the worst that might happen is mild discomfort. I use soda cans and a .357 for those who don't quite get it yet. Now I'll bring pics of your thumb and ask if anyone wants to shoot my .500 with an improper grip.

OP, I live in St. Louis so I can inspect your gun if you want. I'll bring Hornady factory .460 ammo and will shoot it immediately if the cylinder is intact.

Your injury doesn't look quite as bad as I'd originally feared. I met a man who cut his fingertip off with a Freedom Arms .454 by holding it next to the gap. Just like a laser.

One of the best docs anywhere for reattachment of digits is in St. Louis, Dr. Richard Coin. Ask your guy about him. I realize you don't need reattachment, but he may have some wisdom.

Good luck on your recovery. And let me know if you want to step up to one of my .500s...

JR

www.john-ross.net

John Ross is "the man" when it comes to these revolvers.

The slow motion video I posted of the cylinder gap flash was an edited
version of the video you had on your website a few years ago.
(I swiped it from your site back then, and kept it in my archives)

Can you shed some light on it's origins?
Did S&W make the original, or were you involved with it?

(third post in more than 4 years... you must have gotten bored with this place fast.)

Posted: 1/23/2008 8:46:27 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
This thread was referenced in an email to me. I've just spent three hours reading every post.

Some of you may know who I am and the development work I've done on the X-frames...

First of all, I would have been amazed ten years ago that a shooter wouldn't know that the B/C gap of a revolver was a bad place to put body parts near, but no longer. After running several dozen people a week (for four years) though the practical section of my CCW course, I see people change their grips and hold guns in all sorts of weird ways, trying to get an improvement. "Cup and saucer" with the left hand under the frame and left thumb pointing up and forward near the gap is fairly common. At least one shooter a week does this at some point.

I start people off with K22s so the worst that might happen is mild discomfort. I use soda cans and a .357 for those who don't quite get it yet. Now I'll bring pics of your thumb and ask if anyone wants to shoot my .500 with an improper grip.

OP, I live in St. Louis so I can inspect your gun if you want. I'll bring Hornady factory .460 ammo and will shoot it immediately if the cylinder is intact.

Your injury doesn't look quite as bad as I'd originally feared. I met a man who cut his fingertip off with a Freedom Arms .454 by holding it next to the gap. Just like a laser.

One of the best docs anywhere for reattachment of digits is in St. Louis, Dr. Richard Coin. Ask your guy about him. I realize you don't need reattachment, but he may have some wisdom.

Good luck on your recovery. And let me know if you want to step up to one of my .500s...

JR

www.john-ross.net

Wow.

If you guys have any idea who this is.... just, wow.

Thanks for spending your time to jump into this pissing match, John. I think there's a definite disconnect with the "auto" generation.

I posted above that my father did the coke can thing. No doubt someone else showed him.

John, you might think it ironic that I just dug a copy of UC out for a re-read this weekend!

Take care.

Posted: 1/23/2008 8:47:43 AM EDT

[#49]

This thread suddenly got a lot more interesting.

Posted: 1/23/2008 8:53:35 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
This thread suddenly got a lot more interesting.

It was inevitable.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 460XVR blew my thumb off today! Warning: graphic pics pg 15-17 (Page 17 of 21)

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